alt.atheism	about the bible quiz answers article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes the cheribums are the ark the covenant when god said make graven image was refering idols which were created worshipped the ark the covenant wasn wrodhipped and only the high priest could enter the holy holies where was kept once year the day atonement not familiar with knowledgeable about the original language but believe there word for idol and that the translator would have used the word idol instead graven image had the original said idol think you wrong here but then again could too just suggesting way determine whether the interpretation you offer correct dean kaflowitz
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics article timmbake mcl timmbake mcl ucsb edu clam bake timmons writes fallacy atheism faith hear the faq beckoning once again wonderful rule deleted you correct you didn say anything about conspiracy correction hard atheism faith yes rule don mix apples with oranges how can you say that the extermination the mongols was worse than stalin khan conquered people unsympathetic his cause that was atrocious but stalin killed millions his own people who loved and worshipped him and his atheist state how can anyone worse than that will not explain this you again stalin did nothing the name atheism whethe was was not atheist irrelevant get grip man the stalin example was brought not indictment atheism but merely another example how people will kill others under any name that fit for the occasion look again while you never said the implication pretty clear sorry but can only respond your words not your true meaning usenet slippery medium deleted wrt the burden proof hard atheism has nothing prove then how does justify that god does not exist know there the faq etc but guess what those justifications were compelling why aren people flocking hard atheism they not and they won for one will discourage people from hard atheism pointing out those very sources reliable statements hard atheism look not supporting any dogmatic position fool say that the large group people that are atheists people exist who wish proselytize the same fashion religion how many hard atheists you see posting here anyway maybe just not looking hard enough second what makes you think defending any given religion merely recognizing hard atheism for what faith never meant although understand where you might get that idea was merely using the bible example allegory illustrate point and yes referring every reader the post where the evidence that the poster stated that relied upon evidence for what who think may have lost this thread why theists are arrogant deleted because they say such and such absolutely unalterably true because dogma says true not prepared issue blanket statements indicting all theists arrogance you are wont with atheists bzzt virtue your innocent little pronoun they you just issued blanket statement least will apologize qualifying original statement with hard atheist place atheist would you call john the baptist arrogant who boasted one greater than that what many christians today how that itself arrogant guilty charged what meant say was the theists who are arrogant are this way because they say other than that thought meaning was clear enough any position that claims itself superior another with supporting evidence arrogant thanks for your apology btw not worthy only seriously misinformed with your sophisticated put down they the theists your serious misinformation shines through explained above bake timmons iii there nothing higher stronger more wholesome and more useful life than some good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine writes bennett neil how bcci adapted the koran rules banking the times august let see some guy writes piece with title that implies something the case then must that gregg you haven provided even title article support your contention this how you support position you intend have anyone respect gregg any questions and even managed include the above reference with head firmly engaged ass what your excuse this supports nothing have reason believe that this piece anything other than another anti islamic slander job you also have reason believe anti islamic slander job apart from your own prejudices have respect for titles only for real content can look this article want true but can tell you bcci was not islamic bank why yes what mere report the times stating that bcci followed islamic banking rules gregg knows islam good and knows bcci were bad therefore bcci cannot have been islamic anyone who says otherwise obviously spreading slanderous propaganda someone wants discuss the issue more seriously then glad have real discussion providing references etc see someone wants provide references articles you agree with you will also respond with references articles you agree with mmm yes that would very intellectually stimulating debate doubtless that how you spend your time soc culture islam got special place for you kill file right next bobby want join him the more you post the more become convinced that simply waste time try and reason with moslems that what you are hoping achieve mathew
alt.atheism	christian morality article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine writes yet still not believer god not concerned with disposition why beneath him provide with the evidence would require believe the evidence that personality given this god would find compelling the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you the responsibility you love god and take step toward him promises there for you but you have look for yourself those who doubt this dispute have not givin sincere effort simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic our ability reason just spec creation yet some think the ultimate you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now learn you must accept that which you don know
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality article rusnews mantis mathew mantis mathew writes mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes article ursa bear com halat pooh bears jim halat writes atoms are not objective they aren even real what scientists call atom nothing more than mathematical model that describes certain physical observable properties our surroundings all which subjective this deserves framing really does atoms aren even real tell then those atoms have seen with electron microscopes are atoms now what are they figments our imaginations the evidence that atoms are real overwhelming but won bother with most evidence the moment sorry but having studied cell biology have say that can see through electron microscope therefore real laughable statement stuff deleted thank you thought was the twilight zone for moment still amazes that many people with science backgrounds still confuse the models and observables with what even they would call the real world jim halat article ursa bear com halat panther bears jim halat writes article apr princeton edu datepper phoenix princeton edu david aaron tepper writes you were liberal arts major weren tcha guess you never saw that photo the smallest logo the world ibm made with noble gas atoms krypton xenon forget the specifics atoms trees electrons are all independently observable and verifiable morals aren see the difference just for the record not that any kind information would likely affect your thinking have msee focus electromagnetics from penn photo the smallest logo the world does not atom make what was observed something can measure that matches what the mathematical model call atom had predicted much the same way that need both particle model and wave model for light the atomic model mathematical representation physical phenomena model that can and probably will continue change over time that makes subjective the model that however the model gives objective way talk about the physical world put another way the quantum mechanical model the atom allows for discussion the atom that will give repeatable and unambiguous results which objective however bohr and einstein duked out mid century the interpretation those reapeatable observable measurements quite subjective bohr said that the observable randomness atomic motion was inherent the nature the universe einstein said particle motion was deterministic but was our measurement shortcomings that introduced the randomness they were talking about the exact same results though jim halat
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes there lies the hypocrisy dude atheism takes much faith theism admit some people might think takes faith atheist but faith what does take some kind faith say that the great invisible pink unicorn does not exist does take some kind faith say that santa claus does not exist does and may for some people suppose certainly isn big leap faith say that these things and god exist suppose depends your notion and definition faith besides not believing god means one doesn have deal with all the extra baggage that comes with this leaves person feeling wonderfully free especially after beaten over the head with for years agree that religion and belief often important psychological healer for many people and for that reason think important however trying force psychological fantasy don mean that bad way but that what really someone else who isn interested extremely rude what still believed santa claus and said that belief santa did wonderful things for life making better person allowing live without guilt etc and then tried get you believe santa too just cuz did much for you call the men white coats soon you could get phone bake timmons iii nanci just babbling you know and are sure the author this quote please send email andrew cmu edu spring nature way saying let party
alt.atheism	southern baptist convention freemasonry with the southern baptist convention convening this june consider the charges that freemasonry incompatible with christianity thought the following quotes james holly the anti masonic flag carrier would amuse you all the following passages are exact quotes from the southern baptist convention and freemasonry james holly president mission and ministry men inc beaumont the inside cover the book states mission ministry men inc hereby grants permission for the reproduction part all this booklet with two provisions one the material not changed and two the source identified have followed these provisions freemasonry one the allies the devil page the issue here not moderate conservative the issue god and the devil page worthwhile remember that the formulators public school education america were freemasons page jesus christ never commanded toleration motive for his disciples and toleration the antithesis the christian message page the central dynamic the freemason drive for world unity through fraternity liberty and equality toleration this seen the writings the great writers freemasonry page jesus christ established the most sectarian all possible faiths page for narrowness and sectarianism there equal the lord jesus christ page what seems right the interest toleration and its cousins liberty equality and fraternity actually one the subtlest lies the father lies page the southern baptist convention has many churches which were founded the lodge and which have corner stones dedicated the lodge each these churches should hold public ceremonies repentance and praying the blood and the name the lord jesus christ over the church and renouncing the oaths taken the dedication the church and building page tony
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics article madhausc rfqo netcom com madhaus netcom com maddi hausmann writes clam bake timmons bill shit stirrer connor sorry gotta disagree with you this one maddi not the resemblence bill the nickname prefer half bake timmons bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com they said that queens could stay they blew the bronx away and sank manhattan out sea
alt.atheism	requests article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes bob you wanting excuse convert christianity you gonna have look elsewhere damn and did have hopes bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com they said that queens could stay they blew the bronx away and sank manhattan out sea
alt.atheism	thoughts christians article sandvik sandvik kent apple com sandvik newton apple com kent sandvik writes know you can get any physical problems passive christianity unlike smoking not that hard avoid christianity today anyway just ignore right keith err kent whadda you mean you didn see the smiley bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com they said that queens could stay they blew the bronx away and sank manhattan out sea
alt.atheism	what shit shoveler was amusing atheists and article qvn pinnj shelley washington edu jimh carson washington edu james hogan writes when the various bill conners and bobbys post here felt that their passive aggressive knock that chip off shoulder type approach meant that attempts reasoned argument would wasted still think that however while more primitive responses teasing bronx cheers sarcasm are somewhat satisfying apologies anyone who still thinks bobby performance artist some them feed pointless circular round hominem name calling witness precisely position newbie tried the point point approach debate with these types wasted both time and lifespan ignoring them not option since they don away and doing would leave one with large stretches complete anonymity this group what left healthy flaming sure occassion appeared little more than caustic boob some the bobby types but why waste breath arguing with someone whose most rational though process involves his excretory system and stand record recognizing these people long before most the rest the group let see what this timmons character has store for bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com they said that queens could stay they blew the bronx away and sank manhattan out sea
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com writes article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine writes yet still not believer god not concerned with disposition why beneath him provide with the evidence would require believe the evidence that personality given this god would find compelling the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you first don expect them love they don even know exist secondly wouldn expect them love simply because they were creator would expect have earn that love the responsibility you love god and take step toward him promises there for you but you have look for yourself are you daft how love something don believe exists come back when you learned love your third testicle those who doubt this dispute have not givin sincere effort simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic our ability reason just spec creation yet some think the ultimate you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now learn you must accept that which you don know which point you have stepped over the line and become complete asshole even though your first offense won let slip becuase heard too goddamned many times you love jesus because deep your heart you cannibalistic necrophiliac because say and much more qualified assess your motivations than you are fortunately there are some things get accept evidence rather than faith one them being that until christians like yourself quit being fucking arrogant there will never peace you all made sure that bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com they said that queens could stay they blew the bronx away and sank manhattan out sea
alt.atheism	theism and fanatism was islamic genocide article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes theism strongly correlated with irrational belief absolutes irrational belief absolutes strongly correlated with fanatism correlation not causation and belief that absolutes exist not the same thing belief absolutes any more than belief shortest route from thurles clonmel the same thing knowledge the irish roadsystem correlation not necessarily causation however you might have noticed the above allows conclude that the correlation between religion and fanatism based common features religious belief sorry for the long quotes but dont see where cut huh are you barking mad hardly theism not strongly correlated with fanaticism you say plus you could find stronger correlations you were actually interested the truth instead being you seeming are bigot theism correlated with fanaticism have neither said that all fanatism caused theism nor that all theism leads fanatism the point theism increases the chance becoming fanatic one could course argue that would fanatics tend towards theism for example but just have loook the times history when theism was the dominant ideology invalidate that conclusion that that the basic mechanism behind imo the influence stalin for that matter ayn rand invalidates your assumption that theism the factor considered gullibility blind obedience authority lack scepticism and are all more reliable indicators and the really dangerous people the sources fanaticism are often none these things they are cynical manipulators the gullible who know precisely what they are doing now some brands theism and more precisely some theists tend fanaticism grant you tar all theists with this brush bigotry not reasoned argument and reads like warm for censorship and restriction religious freedom ever read animal farm define irrational belief rational believe that reason always useful irrational belief belief that not based upon reason the latter has been discussed for long time with charley wingate one point that the beliefs violate reason often and another that process that does not lend itself rational analysis does not contain reliable information well there glaring paradox here argument that reason useful based reason would circular and argument not based reason would irrational which the first part the second statement contains information because you don say what the beliefs are the beliefs are strong theism and strong atheism then your statement not general true the second part your sentence patently false counterexample axiomatic datum does not lend itself rational analysis but assumed contain reliable information regardless what process used obtain compared the evidence theists have for their claims the strength their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational can agree with this until you are specific which theism say that all theism necessarily antirational requires proof which suspect you not have the affinity fanatism easily seen has true because believe nothing more than work hypothesis however the beliefs say they are more than work hypothesis don understand this can you formalise your argument frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	you will all hell decay cbnewsj att com dean kaflowitz writes article portal videocart com dfuller portal videocart com dave fuller writes jsn psuvm psu edu writes you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation what you mean prepared surrounded thumpers like yourself has proven hellish enough and not even dead yet well here how prepared got one those big beach umbrellas some those gel pack ice things big coleman cooler which loaded with miller draft like miller draft sue new pair new balance sneakers sony watchman and couple cartons bonton cheddar cheese popcorn stuff deleted actually you get ton weapons and ammunition followers and hole some kind compound and wait for alan deguzman calvin smart almost scary guess calculus mathematica child progeny disclaimer the university can afford opinions hobbes most children are
alt.atheism	you will all hell article portal videocart com dfuller portal videocart com dave fuller writes jsn psuvm psu edu writes you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation what you mean prepared surrounded thumpers like yourself has proven hellish enough and not even dead yet well here how prepared got one those big beach umbrellas some those gel pack ice things big coleman cooler which loaded with miller draft like miller draft sue new pair new balance sneakers sony watchman and couple cartons bonton cheddar cheese popcorn haven decided what wear yet what does one wear eternal damnation dean kaflowitz
alt.atheism	what shit shoveler was amusing atheists and article timmbake mcl timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes james hogan writes fine sentiments from his very first post jim assumed attack hominem sarcastic innuendo shit shoveled conveniently forgets this course and then whines about his boredom hominem sarcastic innuendo absolutely forgotten hardly bored not really try not confuse life with life just can overcome the urge tease taunt folks who bound faq less onto with such chip their shoulder listen you one might think belonged some church appreciate the patience others who questioned your posting line line content basis though hard know what impact that might have had compared say shovelling fact were truly interested ending the thread wouldn have posted his last shit shoveled think only lamented that whatever the initial satisfactions past certain point circular abuse heaping was just that bake timmons iii there nothing higher stronger more wholesome and more useful life than some good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky sincere questions why are you here what are you looking for jim
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior qvh tinnsg citation ksu ksu edu yohan citation ksu ksu edu jonathan newton writes article qgm news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes merely question for the basis morality moral ethical behavior societally acceptable behavior disagree with these what society thinks should irrelevant what the individual decides all that important this doesn seem right want kill you can because that what decide who society think this fairly obvious not really whatever particular society mandates there are always some the society who disagree with the mandates which societal mandates make the standard for morality how they define what acceptable generally what they feel right which the most idiotic policy can think what should the basis unfortunately have admit being tied least loosely the feeling that think intuitively know some things wrong awfully hard defend though how keep from whatever legal what moral position thinking for ourselves might agree here just because certain actions are legal does not make them moral mac michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu with new taxes and spending cuts still have billion dollar deficits michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu nobody can explain everything anybody chesterton
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior guess delving into religious language area what exactly morality morals never thought eating meat moral immoral but think could how differentiate between not doing something because personal choice preference and not doing something because see immoral fall what the basis these morals are also consensus positions fall might makes right you brought out whatever right what societally mandated then whoever control the time makes what right mac michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu nobody can explain everything anybody chesterton
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com writes yet still not believer god not concerned with disposition why beneath him provide with the evidence would require believe the evidence that personality given this god would find compelling the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you not again there difference between believing that god exists and loving him for instance satan certainly believes god exists but does not love him what unbelievers request situations like this that god provide evidence compelling enough believe exists not compel them love him the first day after christmas truelove served leftover turkey the second day after christmas truelove served turkey casserole that she made from leftover turkey days deleted flaming turkey wings pizza hut commercial and tlu gic bait ken arromdee arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu
alt.atheism	gulf war and peace niks article apr batman bmd trw com jbrown batman bmd trw com writes hawaii liberated from spain well you were going well until you hit this one hawaii was independent country coup americans led request annex the refused but eventually did annex several years later during the spanish american war the first day after christmas truelove served leftover turkey the second day after christmas truelove served turkey casserole that she made from leftover turkey days deleted flaming turkey wings pizza hut commercial and tlu gic bait ken arromdee arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com writes the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you same old bullshit not being given delusions and wishful thinking not have the option either loving obeying that which have reason believe the responsibility you love god and take step toward him promises there for you but you have look for yourself those who doubt this dispute have not givin sincere effort more bullshit assure you misguided youth made sincere effort was very painful being rational person raised christian home many others could tell the same story you choose not believe anyone experience which contradicts your smug theories bill mayne
alt.atheism	societal basis for morality apr cnsvax uwec edu nyeda cnsvax uwec edu david nye writes reply cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb morals come from what societally accepted why follow that what right have expect others follow our notion societally mandated morality pardon the extremism but couldn murder your brother and say that was exercising rights saw them was doing what felt good didn want anyone forcing their morality don follow your morality believe that morality subjective each person entitled his own moral attitudes mine are not priori more correct than someone elses this does not mean however that must judge another the basis his rather than moral standards while entitled believe what his own moral sense tells him the rest society entitled pass laws spelling out punishments for behavior that offensive the majority why how might makes right how can they force their morality why can what want who are they decide what disagree most criminals not see their behavior moral the may realize that immoral and not care they are thus not following their own moral system but being immoral good point but being immoral our opinion don let them choose make the decision that their actions are wrong for them for someone lay claim alternative moral system must sincere his belief and must internally consistent some sociopaths lack innate moral sense admit lean toward the idea innate moral sense but have little basis for yet how far can such concept extended and thus may incapable behaving morally while someone like hitler may have believed that his actions were moral may judge him immoral our standards you mean that could say would wrong for such thing but not him after all was behaving morally his own eyes and doing what chose what basis condemn other societies besides here the buzz words the idea that there are some actions wrong for all humans all societies holding that morality subjective does not mean that must excuse the murderer why not have objective suddenly david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell mac michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu nobody can explain everything anybody chesterton
alt.atheism	nicknames article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu scott sauyet writes okay how about scott can anybody hear sauyet ssauyet eagel wesleyan edu could you speak can hear you sole intention was learning fly
alt.atheism	free moral agency article pxqs darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes dean kaflowitz decay cbnewsj att com wrote now what interested the original notion you were discussing moral free agency that how can god punish person for not believing him when that person only following his her nature and not possible for that person deny what his her reason tells him her which that there god dean think you letting atheist mythology great start realize immediately that you are not interested discussion and are going thump your babble would much prefer answer from healy who seems have reasonable and reasoned approach things say aren you the creationist guy who made lot silly statements about evolution some time ago confuse you the issue divine justice according the most fundamental doctrines christianity when the first man sinned was that time the entire human race and any punishment meted out would necessarily affect the entire race which was the sole representive all humans coming after him would being the same race species share that judgement has nothing with who deserves what from the perspective god humanity but one category created things and that category condemned duh gee then must talking christian mythology now was hoping discuss something with reasonable logical person but all you seem have for your side repetition the same boring mythology seen thousand times before deleting the rest your remarks unless spot something that approaches answer because they are merely repetition some uninteresting doctrine other and contain thought all have congratulate you though bill you wouldn know logical argument bit you the balls such persistent lack function the face repeated attempts assist you learning which have seen this forum and others the past speaks talent that goes well beyond own meager abilities just don seem have that capacity for ignoring outside influences dean kaflowitz
alt.atheism	morality constant was biblical rape last response this thread fell into bit bucket and vanished though appearing locally repost since always feel slighted when someone appears ignore one postings conversational thread don want rob think doing since this now dated however don feel compelled respond article apr watson ibm com strom watson ibm com rob strom writes was making two separate points both which attack face value bible interpretation judge the bible value today you judge based the way used today that what commentators actually say what rabbis teach etc suspect you meant this context the jewish tradition you have been referring one problem with highly interpreted tradition like this what happens when schism occurs and over time certain large and influential branches the heretical group come favor exactly face value interpretation judge the bible value when originally written you read the context its time not with today assumptions and compare the practices surrounding people while the context the time important value judgments must ultimately according current understanding least some base standard relative stability success society this obviously true comparing practices surrounding people for instance according the bible the surrounding people were immoral savages with repulsive and inhuman habits need look rather what those peoples were really like for instance what way better worship single god whose presence symbolically strongest tent temple over multiple gods some whose presence symbolically represented statue the bible own terms idolatry inherently evil but see evidence that the followers the various other religions the area and time were particularly bad people relative the people the bible scissors and cloth now the past our ancestors did cut cloth with scissors but they least knew that their inhumane neighbors cut with their bare teeth this was relatively enlightened step forward from their earlier barbarism and made the transition modern civilized paper cutting that much easier sounds good but presupposes teeth rending neighbors which see support for one can argue that post facto assertion inhumane neighbors can used make moral points but that doesn mean that the actual neighbors really were inhuman more the point such dehumanization the people across the river over the mountain even different people dwelling among all too common that complex and benign moral traditions have evolved based particular mythic interpretations that history interesting but still don think fair take that long tradition interpretation and use attack condemnation the original history note that speaking historical interpretation here for instance claiming that hammurabi eye for eye was primitive brutal retribution while moses version was enlightened benign fine because the tradition has since interpreted the phrase that way years ago they probably both meant the same thing sure arguing from parochial perspective belong this tiny tribe which has struggled against overwhelming odds for survival distinct tribe and this book the book tribe the book commands dedicate ourselves study improve the world and set example light the nations revered the book and think been successful scientists artists and musicians leaders important humanitarian causes hard for separate the success people from the virtue our book you have argue that have done significantly better with different book with book that another tribe with different book with book has done significantly better don belittle the accomplishments particularly the intellectual ones the jewish people have given trying think analogy since don know any other tribe that all similar the closest can think are the romany but don know enough about them make meaningful comparison think tradition reflective study flexible rather than dogmatic interpretation good thing think that with such attitude case could made that you could have done well starting with captain america comic whatever the babylonian equivalent would have been jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	satanic verses once again this posting has been delayed for about week falling between some software cracks article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes promised here rafiq zakaria discussion the nature the called satanic verses from which rushdie title has been taken rafiq zakaria muhammad and the quran penguin here follows introduction the controversial incident and apologetic explanation purporting show why couldn actually have happened the historicity the episode doesn matter what follows don know whether quoting gregg zakaria below anyway back current affairs rushdie has his own admission drawn the version given the orientalist watt among others this incident not something rushdie watt anyone else dug from nowhere well known story myth you will known according umar khan every muslim school boy and girl and presumably rushdie and gibreel farishta and then allowed his imagination run wild yes this what writing fiction all about rushdie was writing about crisis faith and chose this myth present placing the actor gibreel the role the angel whose name took rushdie was not writing history theology book and nowhere claims implies that this what actually happened somewhat like stories woven around the relationship between jesus and the reformed prostitute mary magdalene another myth those referring the arthurian mythos the grail legend the wandering jew dozens others you can stand read the work blasphemer consider salman rushdie children book haroun and the sea stories for idea the way storyteller specific storyteller works with existing story lines ridicule muhammad integrity muhammad mahound integrity not really impugned this part the story and there reason think this was rushdie intent gibreel the archangel produces the verses divine and satanic though doesn know their provenance not implied straight reading that muhammad influences them not voice never know such words classy speaker never was never will but this isn voice voice mahound eyes open wide seeing some kind vision staring that right gibreel remembers seeing lips moving being moved what whom don know can say nevertheless here they are coming out mouth throat past teeth the words being god postman fun yaar butbutbut god isn this picture god knows whose postman been ambiguous mahound somehow manipulating gibreel satan something else the answer not given sure the question raised this novel explores faith and the role revelation religion among other things addressing loss faith implicitly raises questions about the truth revelation but this novel proposes answers least not directly the very existence newsgroup named alt atheism raises the same questions more forcefully and does propose some answers which the real relevance rushdie mild fictional exploration filth and lies and asked for what got are next the fatwa list that rhetorical question course jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	who says the apostles were tortured another article that fell between the cracks article qiu innpq srvr engin umich edu ingles engin umich edu ray ingles writes evidence for the resurrection often claimed that the disciples were tortured death for their beliefs and still did not renounce their claim that jesus had come back from the dead now skimmed acts and such and found reference this happening stephen but others where does this apparently very widely held belief come from there any evidence outside the bible there any evidence the bible sure haven found any briefly there widespread folklore but good documentary evidence even solid rumor concerning the deaths the apostles further the usual context such arguments you observe martyrs for lie the willingness these people die rather than recant evidence for the truth their belief this adds the quite stronger twist that the proposed martyrs must have been offered the chance life recanting since don even know how where they died certainly don have this information the way even the case stephen not all clear that could have saved himself recanting the willingness true believers die for their belief jesus jim jones well documented martyrdom and itself says little see kings for biblical account the martyrdom priests baal jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	who has read rushdie the satanic verses another one rescued from the bit bucket over the years the furor over this book has been discussed and elsewhere the net generally the discussion comes down the contention the one hand that tsv contains such blood libel against islam merit not death than least banning and probably some sort punishment and the other that rushdie particularly non muslim western country had every right write and publish whatever chose regardless whether some muslims find offensive without fear persecution death naturally inclined the latter position but find myself interesting position because think this fine book only incidentally concerned with islam and moreover damned can find anything malevolently offensive over the years when have made this point various primarily muslim posters have responded saying that yes indeed they have read the book and had called such things filth and lies would rank rushdie book with hitler mein kempf worse and unfortunately these comments are usually generalities and attempts follow requesting explanations for what specifically offensive have met either with stony silence more generalizations inaccurate out context references the book which lead believe that few them have actually read corrections and attempts discuss the text context have been ignored anyway since seem the only one following this particular line discussion wonder how many the rest the readership have read this book what are your thoughts jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	morality constant was biblical rape this response originally fell into bit bucket reposting just bill doesn think ignoring him article jxd darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes jim perry perry dsinc com wrote some stuff about biblical morality though bill quote had little with what goes say bill sorry have been busy lately and only just getting around this apparently you have some fundamental confusions about atheism think many these are well addressed the famous faq your generalisms are then misplaced atheism needn imply materialism the lack absolute moral system however tend materialism and don believe absolute morality answer your questions how then can atheist judge value atheist judges value the same way that theist does according personal understanding morality that don believe absolute one doesn mean that don have one just explicit the line postings you followed that when express judgment moral issue basing judgment own code rather than claiming that some absolute sense good bad moral code not particular different from that others around they christians muslims atheists when say that object genocide not expressing anything particularly out line with what society holds your were ask why think morality exists and has the form does answer would mechanistic your taste that moral code prerequisite for functioning society and that humanity probably evolved morality know part the evolution our ability exist large societies thereby achieving considerable survival advantages you probably say that god just made the rules neither can convince the other but share common understanding about many moral issues you think you get from your religion think get and you get from early childhood teaching that you don like what god told people says nothing about god god commands says only that there was electrical event your nervous system that created emotional state that your mind coupled with pre existing thought set form that reaction think you been reading the wrong sort comic books but prying through the gobbledygook basically agree with what you saying believe that mental reactions stimuli such god commanded the genocide the canaanites mechanistic but course think that true you well reaction has little with whether god exists even with whether think does but god existed who commanded genocide could not consider him good which supposedly attribute god all this being you have excluded yourself from any discussion values right wrong goood evil etc and cannot participate your opinion about the bible can have weight whatsoever hmm yes think some heavy faq reading would you some good have much place discussing values etc any other person fact can actually accomplish something such discussion framing the questions terms reason for instance clear that environment where neighboring tribes periodically attempt wipe each other out based imagined divine commands then the quality life will generally poor system that fosters coexistence superior quality life agreed goal absolutist the other hand can only thump those portions bible they happen agree with and say this good even the act question unequivocally bad the standards everyone the discussion the attempt define someone group people excluded from discussion such that they cannot participate and their opinions given weight whatsoever the lowest form reasoning hominem poisoning the well and presumably the resort someone who can rationally defend their own ideas right wrong and the bible jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	origins the bible article apr nott eczcaw mips nott wainwright writes have been having argument about the origins the bible lately with theist acquaintance stated that thousands bibles were discovered certain point time which were syllable perfect this therefore meant that there must have been one copy certain time the time quoted acquaintace was approximately years after the death jesus you can tell your friend from that was publisher warehouse one time and saw thousands copies the joy cooking and every one them was syllable perfect have since sold all own and become follower the joy cooking the incident mentioned convinced once and for all that the joy cooking inspired god and the one true path his glory dean kaflowitz may the sauce with you
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics article qsum inng shelley washington edu jimh carson washington edu james hogan writes think you missed the point take alt atheism for instance exponent based anagram when fully extended translates dig tunnels deep store grain everywhere prepare for the coming struggle you doubt recognize this quote from chairman mao thus think you have admit that atheists have lot more their sleeve than you might have suspected agnostics will sent the gulag under the mao atheist new order now where did put little red book was that green jim god dead and the actor plays his part sting his words fear will find their way place your heart history without the voice reason every faith its own curse will teach without freedom from the past things can only get worse nothing
alt.atheism	christian morality dan schaertel dps nasa kodak com wrote since this alt atheism hope you don mind strongly disagree the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you the responsibility you love god and take step toward him promises there for you but you have look for yourself indeed knock and shall opened you dan why didn this work firmly believed god for years but eventually realised was only deluding myself fearful face the truth ultimately the only reason what kept believing was the fear hell the mental states had sillily attributed divine forces devil attempts destroy faith were nothing more than imagination and easy achieve the same mental states will faith was just learned fear disguise those who doubt this dispute have not givin sincere effort god demanding too much dan what was believed for years sincere effort equivalent active suspension disbelief what was case rather quit god does not help keep the faith can besides concerned with god morality and mental health does she really want believe herself without any help revelations guidance anything can feel she has created why didn she make the task any easier why are supposed love someone who refuses communicate with what the point eternal torture for those who can believe love god just much she loves she wants seduce she know what simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic our ability reason just spec creation yet some think the ultimate you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now your argument the type you know once you try yet there are many atheists who have sincerely tried and believed for many years but were eventually honest enough admit that they had lived virtual reality what else but reason can use don have the spiritual means christians often refer conscience disagrees with the bible don even believe have soul fully dependent body indeed this body when goes with flames does identity god can entertain herself with copies she wants learn you must accept that which you don know what does this mean learn you must accept that you don know something right but learn you must accept something don know why this not the way prefer learn unwise merely swallow everything you read suppose write book telling how the great invisible pink unicorn has helped daily problems would you accept this since you can know whether true not note that the gipu also omnipotent omnipresent and loves just about everyone besides and she guiding every writer this planet you and and not just some people who write legendary stories years ago your god just one aspect his and her presence petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics the truth pihatie finou oulu physics the rule oulu kempmp the game finland phoenix oulu chemistry the game
alt.atheism	gulf war selling arms article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes from parallel thread much about definitions bombs etc deleted aaaahhh tell how many innocents were killed concentration camps hmm now how many more were scheduled enter concentration camps had they not been shut down because they were captured the allies hmm now civilians died that war matter what you civilians die what the proper course don sell the bastard arms and information the first place ruthlessly hunt down those who especially they positions power mathew agree this seems the crux your whole position isn that the shouldn have supported hussein and sold him arms fight iran agree and agree ruthlessly hunting down those who did but did sell arms hussein and done deal now invades kuwait just sit back and say well sold him all those arms suppose just wants use them now too bad for kuwait unfortunately sitting back and letting things not the way correct former mistake destroying hussein military potential did was the right move but agree with your statement reagan and bush made grave error judgment sell arms hussein really not the gulf war you abhor much was the and the west shortsightedness selling arms hussein which ultimately made the war inevitable right then agree more deleted mathew regards jim
alt.atheism	studies book mormon think that the transcedental temptation paul kurtz has good section the origins mormonism you might want look scott
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics article timmbake mcl timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes from timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons subject amusing atheists and agnostics date apr gmt some big deletions many atheists show poor understanding human nature many people who would otherwise sympathize with their cause only shake their heads disbelief such childish ranting another string idiotic generalizations gad surprised got this far down the post guess some just like seeing their names crt like phil trodwell this space happy ram goddam volt cattle for rent prod into that tub with you right now but not cheap this radio hunter thompson
alt.atheism	where are they now perhaps prophetic that the week where are they now appears and can claim still active old timer news software gets bit rot and ships outgoing articles into deep hole somewhere anyway here repost article innf senator bedfellow mit edu tcbruno athena mit edu tom bruno writes which brings the point posting how many people out there have been around alt atheism since done damnedest stay top the newsgroup but when you fall behind you really fall behind these days you don have fall far behind last monday admittedly after long weekend but had messages just those few days aside from hiatus while changing jobs last fall been here since has anyone tried keep with the deluge inquiring minds want know also does anyone keep track where the more infamous posters alt atheism end once they leave the newsgroup just curious guess hell norway the rubber room the funny farm seminary not given know jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	strong weak atheism did that faq ever got modified define strong atheists not those who assert the nonexistence god but those who assert that they believe the nonexistence god there was thread this earlier but didn get the outcome adam nickname cooper adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws
alt.atheism	faith and dogma article apr edt neat toronto edu tgk toronto edu todd kelley writes light what happened waco need get something chest sadly understandable faith and dogma are dangerous yes religion inherently encourages the implementation faith and dogma and for that reason scorn religion fair you should really qualify this semitic western religions but you basically ahead and this later anyway have expressed this notion the past some christians debated with whether christianity leaves any room for reasoning claimed rationality quelled out christianity faith and dogma again this should really evaluated personal level for example there was only one jesus presumably and probably didn say all that many things and yet seemingly billions and billions christian sects have arisen perhaps there one that totally dedicated rationalism and believes christ pantheism would seem against the bible but amazing what people come with under the guise personal interpretation philosopher cannot christian because philosopher can change his mind whereas christian cannot due the nature faith and dogma present any religion this good point have here the quintessential christian sets system values beliefs for himself which work very well and every event experience understandable and deablable within the framework this system however also have individual who has the inability least not without some difficulty change which important because the problem with such system the same with any system one cannot open minded the point testing hypotheses against the basic premise the system without destroying whatever faith invested therein unless course all the tests fail other words the fairer way would test and evaluate moralities without the bias responsibility losing retaining system claimed that christian philosopher not christian but person whose beliefs the moment correspond with those christianity consider that person visiting guarding prison not prisoner unless you define prisoner simply someone prison can define prisoner someone who the moment prison can define christian someone who the moment has christian beliefs because person free not prisoner similarly person not constrained faith and dogma not christian interesting but again when seems basically boil down individual nuances although not always will admit and probably the mass oriented divisions which are the most appalling becomes irrelevant unfortunately admit word game going the dictionary definition religion religion concern over what exists beyond the visible world differentiated from philosophy that operates through faith intuition rather than reason webster now let beyond the word game don claim that religion causes genocide think that all humans were atheist there would still genocide there will always humans who don think there will always humans who don ask themselves what the real difference between themselves and people with different colored skin different language different beliefs granted religion like the gun that doesn kill anybody religion encourages faith and dogma and although doesn directly condemn people encourages the use just because thinking just because thinking that kills people which case the people become the bullets and the religion the gun merely offers them way more adequately some harm with themselves may bold extend your similie sure religion has many good qualities encourages benevolence and philanthropy take out only the bad things like faith dogma and tradition put the good things like careful reasoning and science the result secular humanism wouldn nice everyone were secular humanist please the supernaturalists you might even leave god there but the secular emphasis would cause the supernaturalists start thinking and they too would realize that belief god really doesn put anyone further ahead understanding the universe just poking fun the supernaturalists also understandable course not all humans are capable thought and still have genocide and maybe even some mass suicide but not much willing bet that todd todd kelley tgk toronto edu department computer science university toronto best regards adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article mvo blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes think many reading this group would also benefit knowing how deviant the view articulated above which may not the true view khomeini from the basic principles islam from the point view atheist see you claim khomeini wasn practicing true islam but sure that would have said the same about you how member neither group supposed able tell which one you two really true muslim this very good point have already made the clear claim that khomeini advocates views which are contradition with the qur and have given arguments for this this something that can checked anyone sufficiently interested khomeini being dead really can respond but another poster who supports khomeini has responded with what clearly obfuscationist sophistry this should quite clear atheists they are less susceptible religionist modes obfuscationism answer your question the only way you can judge learning more about islam that reading the qur and understanding basic principles once one has done this relatively easy see who following the principles islam and who acting way odds with islam khomeini attributing superhuman status twelve muslim historical leaders variance with one basic principles islam which that human being metaphysically different than any other human being and sense any closer god metaphysical nature gregg
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes this supports nothing have reason believe that this piece anything other than another anti islamic slander job have respect for titles only for real content can look this article want true but can tell you bcci was not islamic bank seeing spending time responding propaganda responding this little sub thread really don feel deep need more than make statements the effect that the propaganda false someone wants discuss the issue more seriously then glad have real discussion providing references etc but you must admit that this more thorough argument supporting proposition than your propganda because say hope you can see why might not find this argument compelling you want refute point then but right well again doing much the poster was replying too quite busy and really don have the time respond full scholarly form every accusation that flippantly made someone who being clearly antagonistic and have you ever considered that perhaps these people actually believe what they say that they are not just spreading propaganda have considered but someone spreads falsehoods out ignorance then they are still spreading falsehoods those falsehoods generally not come out nowhere but are produced people who know that what they are saying least not the whole truth still consider such spreading falsehoods propaganda some level not position say since know nothing about the situation that does not estimation qualify having head ass bob never accused you having your head your ass takes quite some time dealing with someone before accusing them having their head their ass was accusing the original poster benedikt believe being impaired cheers gregg
alt.atheism	who says the apostles were tortured the willingness true believers die for their belief jesus jim jones well documented martyrdom and itself says little does say something about the depth their belief religion has both deluded believers and con men the difference often how far they will follow their beliefs have first hand even second hand knowledge how the original apostles died they began myth hopes exploiting for profit and followed that myth the death that would inconsistent real con men would bail out when was obvious would lead discomfort pain and death the story kings regarding the prophets baal help this debate one can easily assume that they believed that overwhelming vindication elijah would forthcoming was simply fool who would shown the fire from heaven was swift and their seizure and deaths were equally swift
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article unix portal com danb shell portal com dan babcock writes article mvo blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes think many reading this group would also benefit knowing how deviant the view articulated above which may not the true view khomeini from the basic principles islam from the point view atheist see you claim khomeini wasn practicing true islam but sure that would have said the same about you how member neither group supposed able tell which one you two really true muslim easy just read the koran because the koran perfect there possibility disagreement okay see smilies this isn supposed serious post the other hand would suppose does has some motivation behind apparently the idea poke fun religion but there presumably some sort reasoning behind argument this statement worthless presuming the qur perfect religious text whatever that might there still plenty room for disagreement about its implications for issues far from essentials already responded the question how judgment might made between two people who fact disagree about islam which doesn presume anything about the qur other than its having sufficient clarity for all important disputes about the basic principles islam this hardly constitutes claim that two people could have disagreements about all issues relevant islam gregg
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior article qgm news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes from cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb subject societally acceptable behavior date mon apr gmt merely question for the basis morality moral ethical behavior societally acceptable behavior who society how they define what acceptable how keep from whatever legal what moral position mac wow you got thinking now this interesting question that recently there has been move society classify previously socially unacceptable yet legal activities the past seems there were always two coexisting methods social control first and most explicit legal control that the set actions define currently illegal and having specifically defined set punishments secondly and somewhat more hidden social control these are the actions which are considered socially unacceptable and while not covered legal control are scrictly controled social censure ideally socialization working should legal control hardly ever needed since most people voluntarilly control their actions due the pressure social censure the control manifests itself day day life guilt and morality heard said and fully believe that weren for the vast majority people policing themselves legal control would absolutely impossible lately last years however there has been move attempt dissengage the individual from societal control ain illegal then don pick not saying this wrong merely that byproduct society which has high education level high exposure alternative ideas via the popular media high level institutionalized individual rights and oriented culture guess what saying that appear state transition here the western world that still have many ideas about what can can allow people based entirely personal squeamishness yet are fully bent maximizing individual freedoms the max long those freedoms don impinge another imho society trying persue two mutually exclusive ends here while appreciate and persue individual rights these satisfy the old territoriality and dominance instincts the removal socialized inherent fears based ignorance will result the continued destabilization society got quick fix have idea how can get ourselves out this mess know would never consent the roll back personal freedoms order stabilize society yet believe development societies follow darwinian process which selects for stability can find social model which maximizes indiv freed yet stable perhaps possible live with non stable society anybody see way out comments therefore answer question don want phil trodwell this space happy ram goddam volt cattle for rent prod into that tub with you right now but not cheap this radio hunter thompson
alt.atheism	gulf war was death penalty was political atheists article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes don sell the bastard arms and information the first place ruthlessly hunt down those who especially they positions power looked back this and asked some questions various people and got the following information which had claimed and you pooh poohed the has not sold iraq any arms their navy entirely made ussr vessels their airforce not including stuff captured from kuwait which not sure about doesn include any equipment their missiles are all non their tanks are almost all soviet with about french tanks older ones the only stuff the iraqi arsenal few those were not sold iraq iraq captured them from other countries like kuwait information hard prove you are claiming that the sold information prove now how did the build iraq again just gave some fairly conclusive evidence that the didn sell arms iraq information hard prove almost certainly the did sell information then that fact classified and you can prove you can provide some useful evidence that the sold arms valuable intelligence iraq very interested but not you just make claims based what everyone knows mccullou whipple wisc edu never program and drink beer the same time doesn work
alt.atheism	who has read rushdie the satanic article innknk bozo dsinc com perry dsinc com jim perry writes anyway since seem the only one following this particular line discussion wonder how many the rest the readership have read this book what are your thoughts read found wonderful for some reason flames please was reminded hemingway carl orff and van gogh not all once though geoff arnold nfs architect sun select geoff arnold east sun com what they made the whole thing the great lie four guys two thousand years ago over wine the tear garden
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality reply frank uucp frank dwyer the problem for the objectivist determine the status moral truths and the method which they can established accept that such judgements are not reports what but only relate what ought see naturalistic fallacy then they cannot proved any facts about the nature the world this can avoided least two ways leaving the good undefined since anyone who claims that they not know what either lying out touch with humanity undeserving reply the good undefined undefinable but you require everyone that they know innately what right you are back subjectivism defining the good solely terms evaluative terms ditto here evaluative statement implies value judgement the part the person making this point the objectivist may talk self evident truths pretty perceptive that prof flew but can deny the subjectivist claim that self evidence the mind the beholder course denying that subject object true dichotomy please explain how this helps don see your argument not what left the claim that some moral judgements are true nothing then moral judgements are true this thing that commonly referred nihilism entails that science value irrepective the fact that some people find useful how anyone arrives relativism subjectivism from this argument beats this makes sense either flew arguing that this where the objectivist winds not the subjectivist furthermore the nihilists believed nothing except science materialism revolution and the people the subjectivist may well feel that all that remains that there are some moral judgements with which would wish associate himself hold moral opinion suggests not know something true but have preferences regarding human activity and those preferences should include terrorism that moral opinion not true likewise the preferences should include noterrorism that moral opinion not true why should one choose set preferences which include terrorisim over one which includes noterrorism reason this patently absurd and also not the position the subjectivist has been pointed out you already others ditch the strawman already and see reply mike cobb root message the thread societal basis for morality david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell
alt.atheism	has risen reply kmr cwru edu keith ryan our lord and savior david keresh has risen has been seen alive spread the word jeez can get anything straight told him wait for three days god david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell
alt.atheism	college atheists read article about poll done students the ivy league schools which was reported that third the students indentified themselves atheists this lot higher than among the general population wonder what the reasons for this discrepancy are because they are more intelligent younger this the wave the future david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics reply timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons the same kind ignorance demonstrated just about every post this newsgroup for instance generalizations about christianity are popular which newsgroup have you been reading the few anti christian posts are virtually all response some christian posting some you will all burn hell kind drivel soft atheist courtesy the faq but even know enough about the bible see that repeatedly warns false prophets preaching the name god bake transparently obvious that you are theist pretending atheist you probably think you are very clever but see this all the time but the possibilities creator and eternity carry with them too much emotional power dismiss merely the basis this line but course you have dismissed them because you are atheist right just like any other religion hard atheism faith other words you didn read the faq after all david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell
alt.atheism	what shit shoveler was amusing atheists and reply jimh carson washington edu james hogan what someone with prediliction shit shoveling when the latest know what you atheists are about arrival shows ignore the bills bobbys bakes try engage reasonable discourse while flame fests have been among some the most entertaining threads here other tugs war with folks like bobby have grown old before their time take the view that they are here for our entertainment when they are longer entertaining into the kill file they david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics timmbake mcl ucsb edu half bake timmons writes maddi whirr click whirr frank dwyer might also contained that shell pop stack determine whirr click whirr killfile keith allen schneider frank closet theist dwyer maddi the mad sound geek hausmann already been named killfile keith nickname maddi never useful post hausmann and don you dare forget half there nothing higher stronger more wholesome and more useful life than some good memory alyosha brothers karamazov dostoevsky you really should quote ivan karamazov instead was the atheist maddi hausmann madhaus netcom com centigram communications corp san jose california kids please don try this home remember post professionally
alt.atheism	death penalty was political athei date tue apr from mathew mathew mantis there great film called manufacturing consent noam chomsky and the media canadian film saw the berlin film festival this year you get chance and see can really recommend any books from having read them thinking ordering book which reviewer claimed gives good introduction his political activism could dig the title mathew could the chomsky reader edited james peck published pantheon
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics date apr gmt from bake timmons timmbake mcl ucsb edu remember koresh dried for your sins and pass that beef jerky umm umm though wasn there least can rely you now keep posted what what doing what cook off
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes merely question for the basis morality moral ethical behavior societally acceptable behavior who society society the collection individuals which will fall under self defined rules terms decisions all the sets peoples who are represented the are considered part that society then look federal laws provided representatives purely citizens then the society for that case would the citizens the and how they define what acceptable acceptable are those behaviours which are either legislated for the society representatives that society those behaviours which are non verbally and effect non consciously such picking your nose the oprah winfrey show one does but there explicit law against doing many cases there are definition whether not behaviour acceptable but one can deduce these behaviours observation how keep from whatever legal what moral position increasingly litigation mad society this trap becoming exceedingly difficult avoid with the infusion and strengthening ethnic cultures american and australian bring local perspective culture the boundaries acceptable behaviour are ever widening and legislation may eventually become the definition moral behaviour for instance some cultures dominant religion call for live sacrifice domesticated animals most fundamental christians would find this practice abhorrent however moral according the multicultural american society this kind problem may only definable legislation obviously within any society there will differences opinion what acceptable behaviour not and much this will due different environmental circumstances rather than merely different opinions one thing for sure there universal moral code which will suit all cultures all situations there may however some globally accepted mores which can agreed upon and instantiated globally enforcable concept the majority mores will not common until all peoples upon this earth are living similar environment that ever happens jeff nonickname clark
alt.atheism	you will all hell article apr nuscc nus cmtan iss nus tan chade meng dan writes from cmtan iss nus tan chade meng dan subject you will all hell date tue apr gmt article jsn psuvm psu edu jsn psuvm psu edu writes you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation arrgg another one those another letter the big guy dear god please take them back heaven leave rational intelligent people alone love meng the unenlightened one tan chade meng there light the end the tunnel singapore cmtan iss nus coming train meng have better prayer dear god please save the world from the likes these tammy
alt.atheism	you will all hell article cbnewsj att com decay cbnewsj att com dean kaflowitz writes from decay cbnewsj att com dean kaflowitz subject you will all hell date tue apr gmt article portal videocart com dfuller portal videocart com dave fuller writes jsn psuvm psu edu writes you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation what you mean prepared surrounded thumpers like yourself has proven hellish enough and not even dead yet well here how prepared got one those big beach umbrellas some those gel pack ice things big coleman cooler which loaded with miller draft like miller draft sue new pair new balance sneakers sony watchman and couple cartons bonton cheddar cheese popcorn haven decided what wear yet what does one wear eternal damnation dean kaflowitz you should wear your nicest boxer shorts and bring plenty spf sunscreen grab bathing suit towerl and some veggie hotdogs and can have bonfire cookout does that sound good enough you dean every poster invited tammy trim healy
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long from jbrown batman bmd trw com actually was the fact that both situations existed that prompted and allied action some back water country took over some other back water country probably wouldn intervene not that don care but can the world policman coup had occured kuwait instead invasion then still wouldn have acted because there would not have been the imminent danger perceived saudi arabia but the combination the two unprovoked invasion genocidal tyrant and the potential danger the west oil interests caused take action there are many indications that would have taken place had saddam been wanting planning going into saudi arabia there were none this has been openly stated pentagon analysts pull from jbrown batman bmd trw com not setting strawman all you want argue against the war then the only logical alternative was allow hussein keep kuwait diplomatic alternatives including sanctions were ineffective actually reports from other mid east countries showed that hussein was ready make concessions due the sanctions just didn want him wanted crush him well battle test all these high tech toys built over the years from jbrown batman bmd trw com probably because not the saviors the world can police each and every country that decides self destruct invade another nor are strategic position get relief tibet east timor some other places also hypocrites the first magnitude obviously don give shit about freedom and democracy all care about our oil and the excuse now that the soviets are gone from the board keep sizable military presence the gulf region care make bets about when all our troops will come home basically saddam was with was killer who tortured his own people used gas them and other horrors was brutal dictator but was our brutal dictator once said fuck you the became the next hitler the same for noriega was bastard but was our bastard until changed his mind and went his own way then had get rid him david hunt graduate slave mind own towards both mechanical engineering are ideas opinions palestinian and carnegie mellon university use golden rule jewish homeland email bluelobster cmu edu working towards piled higher and deeper will great day when scientists and engineers have all the money they need and religions have beg for money pay the priest
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior article news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes qvh tinnsg citation ksu ksu edu yohan citation ksu ksu edu jonathan newton writes article qgm news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes merely question for the basis morality moral ethical behavior societally acceptable behavior disagree with these what society thinks should irrelevant what the individual decides all that important this doesn seem right want kill you can because that what decide exactly although this may dissapointing answer there has interplay the two personal ethos and societal morality person self generated learned set beliefs are usually expressed purely mental verbal level and don usually find expression society except impure not the sense bad state sometimes this has who society think this fairly obvious not really whatever particular society mandates there are always some the society who disagree with the mandates which societal mandates make the standard for morality also what one feels oneself part more than one society very real sense use the obvious example there political society and racial society and gender society and sometimes they not always agree every issue how they define what acceptable generally what they feel right which the most idiotic policy can think what should the basis unfortunately have admit being tied least loosely the feeling that think intuitively know some things wrong awfully hard defend though yes perhaps with infamous what you want long doesn hurt others the problem with this that merely saying what you can not morality that doesn propound any specifically preferred behaviours how keep from whatever legal what moral position thinking for ourselves might agree here just because certain actions are legal does not make them moral add hearty two however one could just well say just because certain actions are moral does not make them legal one still doesn really get impression which one truly right mac michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu with new taxes and spending cuts still have billion dollar deficits michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu nobody can explain everything anybody chesterton best regards adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior article news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes guess delving into religious language area what exactly morality morals hope there not one with subject like this you just have spiral what would then morality morality morals labels don make arguments one really needs solid measuring stick which most actions can interpreted even though this would hardly seem moral for example the best thing for ensure that will eat and drink enough hence all actions must weighed against this one statement whatever helps this goal moral whatever does not immoral course this leads such blank space there are many different ways fulfill goal one would need hyper morality apply just the methods never thought eating meat moral immoral but think could how differentiate between not doing something because personal choice preference and not doing something because see immoral fall what the basis these morals are seems only consider something moral immoral stop think about long enough the other hand maybe our first gut reaction which who knows perhaps here have way discriminate morals don instinctively thing vegetarianism right the same way instinctively feel torture wrong but thought about long enough and listened the arguments could perhaps reason that was wrong that possible see the difference also consensus positions fall might makes right you brought out whatever right what societally mandated then whoever control the time makes what right mac michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu nobody can explain everything anybody chesterton best regards adam adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws
alt.atheism	societal basis for morality article sad news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes apr cnsvax uwec edu nyeda cnsvax uwec edu david nye writes reply cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb morals come from what societally accepted why follow that what right have expect others follow our notion societally mandated morality pardon the extremism but couldn murder your brother and say that was exercising rights saw them was doing what felt good didn want anyone forcing their morality don follow your morality believe that morality subjective each person entitled his own moral attitudes mine are not priori more correct than someone elses this does not mean however that must judge another the basis his rather than moral standards while entitled believe what his own moral sense tells him the rest society entitled pass laws spelling out punishments for behavior that offensive the majority why how might makes right how can they force their morality why can what want who are they decide what disagree well agree with you the sense that they have moral right inflict these rules but there one thing might add the very least almost everybody wants avoid pain and that means sacrificing some stuff for herd morality then most criminals not see their behavior moral the may realize that immoral and not care they are thus not following their own moral system but being immoral good point but being immoral our opinion don let them choose make the decision that their actions are wrong for them right and since they grew and learned around they have some idea our right and wrong which think must part incorporated very rarely you see criminal behaviour for philosophical reasons for someone lay claim alternative moral system must sincere his belief and must internally consistent some sociopaths lack innate moral sense admit lean toward the idea innate moral sense but have little basis for yet how far can such concept extended stuff deleted you mean that could say would wrong for such thing but not him after all was behaving morally his own eyes and doing what chose what basis condemn other societies besides here the buzz words the idea that there are some actions wrong for all humans all societies holding that morality subjective does not mean that must excuse the murderer why not have objective suddenly david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell mac michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu nobody can explain everything anybody chesterton best regards adam adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws
alt.atheism	you will all hell article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes you should wear your nicest boxer shorts and bring plenty spf sunscreen grab bathing suit towerl and some veggie hotdogs and can have bonfire cookout does that sound good enough you dean every poster invited there room for nudists after all you believe most upstanding moral churches nudity sin sole intention was learning fly
alt.atheism	free moral agency article minster york cjhs minster york writes are you saying that their was physical adam and eve and that all humans are direct decendents only these two human beings then who were cain and able wives couldn their sisters because didn have daughters were they non humans genesis and the days adam after begat seth were eight hundred years and begat sons and daughters felicitations chris stuart still incestuous adam what happened sig cooper
alt.atheism	test ignore test adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws understand one another fear beyond your comprehension gandalf
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and anarchists article timmbake mcl timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes mccullou whipple wisc edu writes the line about atheists haveing something their sleeves what seemed imply that sorry been reading too much the clipper project lately and the paranoia over there may have seeped some what the clipper project btw the clipper initiative announcement clinton that all the secure voice phones will use the same crypto chip facto government standard problem the government admitting that they hold the keys break the code easily and the justice department will using the keys listen illegal activities many people are really scared about such initiative because major step towards outlawing real crypto protection things like email you read the press release the project was developed nsa and given nist uses two keys and that the government claims are needed break the code they claim that these keys will handed two different companies and when they get warrant wiretap the chip nicknamed the wiretap chip they have get the keys from both companies people have poked holes through and through the press release official version and shown how nowhere near nice sounds and have given the simplified version people over sci crypt are really scared about this proposal seems mccullou whipple wisc edu never program and drink beer the same time doesn work
alt.atheism	the pope jewish date tue apr gmt from bruce rakes bruce cortex dixie com mcgoy unicorn acs ttu edu david mcgaughey writes always thought that the pope was bear you know because that little saying does bear shit the woods the pope catholic there must some connection between those two lines and always heard the bear catholic does the pope nevermind bruce rakes software systems manager elekta instruments inc executive park suite atlanta voice fax email bruce elekta com anyone from alabama knows should the bear catholic does pope shit the woods the pope may not bear but the bear god paul bear bryant football coach god university alabama
alt.atheism	faith and dogma tgk toronto edu todd kelley writes light what happened waco need get something chest faith and dogma are dangerous religion inherently encourages the implementation faith and dogma and for that reason scorn religion don necessarily disagree with your assertion but disagree with your reasoning faith bad dogma bad religion faith dogma religion bad bad religion bad unfortunately you never state why faith and dogma are dangerous you believe faith and dogma are dangerous because what happened waco you are missing the point the branch davidians made the mistake confusing the message with the messenger they believed koresh was prophet and therefore believed everything said the problem wasn the religion was the followers they didn die because faith and dogma they died because their zealotry the case the children the zealotry their parents have expressed this notion the past some christians debated with whether christianity leaves any room for reasoning claimed rationality quelled out christianity faith and dogma christians are totally irrational irrational with respect their religion only what are you saying one belief christian god does not make one totally irrational think know what you were getting but rather hear you expand the subject philosopher cannot christian because philosopher can change his mind whereas christian cannot due the nature faith and dogma present any religion again this statement too general christian perfectly capable being philosopher and absolutely capable changing his her mind faith god belief and all beliefs may change would you assert that atheists would make poor philosophers because they are predisposed not believe god which course may show unfair bias when studying say religion claimed that christian philosopher not christian but person whose beliefs the moment correspond with those christianity consider that person visiting guarding prison not prisoner unless you define prisoner simply someone prison can define prisoner someone who the moment prison can define christian someone who the moment has christian beliefs because person free not prisoner similarly person not constrained faith and dogma not christian christianity prison ever heard parole you have read far too much into this subject christian one who follows the religion based the teachings man named jesus christ nowhere does this definition imply that one cannot change one mind prison however you can just decide leave one voluntary the other not the two are not compatible religion like the gun that doesn kill anybody religion encourages faith and dogma and although doesn directly condemn people encourages the use just because thinking just because thinking that kills people prefer think religion water pistol filled with urine seriously though some but certainly not all religions condemn groups people the common target the infidel curious being who alternately atheist non insert specific religious affiliation here person different race egyptian please explain how just because thinking kills people and please state more your answer than waco course not all humans are capable thought and still have genocide and maybe even some mass suicide but not much willing bet that see your conscientious peacenik and raise you religious zealot with bad acne the way wasn aware mass suicide was problem waco and jonestown were isolated incidents mass suicides are far from common kevin marshall computer science department virginia tech marshall csugrad edu blacksburg virginia
alt.atheism	church satan was islamic authority sic over women david rice ofa fidonet org writes who marshall csugrad edu kevin marshall what csugrad edu yeah hilarious satanists believe satan god but not the only god satan part christian mythology therefore one cannot reasonably worship satan without acknowledging the existence christian god satanists see satan their master and they see god and satan adversaries similar power satanists believe the eventual overthrow god and transfer all power their master kevin marshall great many satanists not believe satan some some don far assert that most orthodox satanists not worship satan church satan etc but rather worship self hear lavey say only idiots and fools believe satan and allah knew that suckers are born every minute maximus anton lavey interpretation satanism has always puzzled read his satanic bible few years ago for social studies project well book arthur lyons called the cult devil worship america the latter included very interesting interview with the black pope which did indeed say that satan was merely instrument for one realize the self when refer satanism referring the mishmash rural satanic ritualism and witchcraft which existed before the church satan don consider lavey church all orthodox nor consider its followers satanists lavey combined the philosophies nietzsche crowley and reich slapped some religious doctrine added little touch barnum and christened his creation the church satan doubt the title was calculated attempt attract attention suppose could have just easily called the church free sex any rate worked for while its heyday the church had huge following including such hollywood celebrities sammy davis and jayne mansfield have picture lavey with sammy the way find the idea satanist not believing satan about credible christian not believing christ but you include the church satan then suppose need alter definition webster dictionary and the american heritage dictionary will have the same kevin marshall computer science department virginia tech marshall csugrad edu blacksburg virginia
alt.atheism	who has read rushdie the satanic verses article edm apr gocart twisto compaq com edm twisto compaq com mccreary writes while the topic books has anyone else noticed that paine the age reason hard find been wanting pick copy for while but not bad enough mail order noticed though that none the bookstores seem carry thought this was supposed classic what the deal too our local used book store the second largest the west coast and couldn find copy there guess atheists hold their bibles much esteem the theists bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com they said that queens could stay they blew the bronx away and sank manhattan out sea
alt.atheism	islamic genocide article horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article qkovl fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes false dichotomy you claimed the killing were not religiously motivated and saying that wrong not saying that each and every killing religiously motivate spelled out detail which killings you say are religously motivated for example would claim that the recent assassination four catholic construction workers who had connection with the ira was probably religously motivated the time writing think that someone who claims the current violence motivated religion reaching what would you call when someone writes the killings are not religously motivated now possible argue that religion the past major contributing factor the violence the present but don know any evidence that this and not enough historian debate given that the avowed aim the ira take northern ireland into country that has particular church written into its constitution and which has restriction civil rights dictated that church fail see why the word past appropriate but claim that the killings are not religously motivated grotesque all that means that the church and believers are doing what they always with history they can face they rewrite you attacking different claim claim that when ira terrorist plants bomb warrington does not have motive the greater glory god sorry frank but what put quotes your own words from your posting horus mchp sni don tell now that different claim you can longer stand behind your original claim just say mean the same thing when say the killings are not religously motivated when say when terrorist plants bomb doesn have religious motive the example meant clarify not new claim the different claim which refer the claim which you were seemingly attacking the previous post namely that religion not major historical cause the present violence don assert that nor assert its opposite you don have hand bunch double talk about what was seemingly attacking quoted what was attacking jon
alt.atheism	the inimitable rushdie article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes jkj fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes understanding that blasphemy laws yes they exist the although they are little used apply only anglican christianity how does this fit with your claim that there state religion the why don you ask the approx two million british muslims who break five times day and have never ever been prosecuted under then ask how easy hold christian church service saudi arabia jon
alt.atheism	who has read rushdie the satanic verses article innknk bozo dsinc com perry dsinc com jim perry writes anyway since seem the only one following this particular line discussion wonder how many the rest the readership have read this book what are your thoughts read when first came out and the controversy broke put name the waiting list the library that way the book was really offensive none money would find its way the author publisher and read cover cover use phrase that seems popular here right now and liked the writing style was little hard get used but was well worth the effort coming from similar background rushdie grew bombay muslim family and moved england grew new delhi made strong impression and used many the strange constructions indian english the yaar the end sentence butbutbut the occasional hindi phrase etc the time still sorta kinda thought myself muslim and couldn see what the flap was all about seemed clear that this was allegory was clear that described some local prostitutes who took the names and personae muhammed wives and had not grandfather thundered implied that muhammed wives were prostitutes short every angry muslim that had read even part the book seemed have missed the point completely and won mention the fact that the most militant them had never even seen the book oops just did perhaps deep sense the book insulting islam because exposes the silliness revealed religion why does omnipotent deity need agent she can come directly can she how know that muhammed didn just out into the desert and smoke something and how know that the scribes dictated the quran didn screw put their own little verses and why can muhammed marry more than four women when other muslim allowed although think the biggest insult islam that the majority its followers would want suppress book sight unseen the say some holy guy not mention murder the author over the years when have made this point various primarily muslim posters have responded saying that yes indeed they have read the book and had called such things filth and lies would rank rushdie book with hitler mein kempf worse and had much the same response when tried talk about the book really silly argument after all how many these same people have read mein kampf just made wonder what are they afraid why don they just read the book and decide for themselves maybe the reaction the muslim community the book and the absence protest from the liberal muslims khomeini fatwa outrage was the final push needed into atheism shamim mohamed uunet noao cmcl arizona shamim shamim arizona edu take this cross and garlic here mezuzah jewish page the koran muslim and zen buddhist you your own member the league for programming freedom write lpf uunet net
alt.atheism	the universe and black holes was years article apr iastate edu iastate edu warren vonroeschlaub wrote let say that drop marble into the black hole races ever faster towards the even horizon but thanks the curving space caused the excessive gravity the object approaches the event horizon has further travel integrating the curve gives time reach the event horizon infinity the math says that nothing can enter black hole not true only observer rest infinite distance from the black hole will see the particle take infinite time reach the horizon the particle own reference frame takes very finite time reach the horizon and the singularity the math does indeed predict this take look mitchner thorne and wheeler gravitation peter walker don forget sing they say there heaven for those who will wait some say better but say ain rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun only the good die young
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article qla afp fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes hope islamic bank something other than bcci which ripped off many small depositors among the muslim community the and elsewhere grow childish propagandist bbci was example islamically owned and operated bank what will someone bet they weren real islamic owners and operators islamic bank bank which operates according the rules islam regard banking this done explicitly the bank this was not the case with bcci now you are saying that islamic bank something other than bcci would you care explain why was that when said hope islamic bank something other than bcci you called childish propagandist jon
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes the difference understand that when one invests one shares the risk the venture whereas when bank lends money while charging interest the bank takes little risk the entire business bank the management risk that what bank for that what people who work for banks something like that anyway financial stuff ain thing but that case why are you posting about what hear you saying don understand this stuff but islam says jon
alt.atheism	cruel was political atheists article qnpe inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes they spent quite bit time the wording the constitution realise that this widely held belief america but fact the clause cruel and unusual punishments like lot the rest was lifted from the english bill rights just because the wording elsewhere does not mean they didn spend much time the wording the part the posting you have helpfully deleted pointed out that they used the wording from the english bill rights apparently changing what they understood and asked why then should two hundred years later bound what keith allan schneider thinks they understood have already looked the dictionary define the word isn this sufficient since the dictionary said that lack mercy intent inflict injury grief counted cruel sure people can described cruel this way but punishments cannot one cannot say cruel fate your prevarications are getting increasingly unconvincing think jon
alt.atheism	cruel was political atheists article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes article qnedm fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article mdinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes they spent quite bit time the wording the constitution realise that this widely held belief america but fact the clause cruel and unusual punishments like lot the rest was lifted from the english bill rights according jerry mander the absence the sacred good book btw the great binding law the iroquois confederacy also played significant role model for the constitution furthermore apparently marx and engels were strongly influenced study iroquois society using the prime example successful classless egalitarian noncoercive society mander goes say that both the and the would well study the original document figure out where each went wrong and try get right next time that fascinating heard that the chinese rather than the italians invented pasta jon
alt.atheism	political atheists article qnp inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes perhaps the chimps that failed evolve cooperative behaviour died out and are left with the ones that did evolve such behaviour entirely chance that the entire point that the point evolution not the point natural morality unless course have suggested several times already natural morality just renaming are you going proclaim natural morality every time organism evolves cooperative behaviour yes natural morality morality that developed naturally but your yes actually stronger than this you are agreeing that every time organism evolves cooperative behaviour you are going call natural morality what about the natural morality bee dance huh bee dance naturally developed piece cooperative behaviour jon
alt.atheism	political atheists article apr daffy wisc edu mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes article afp fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article ajinn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes well chimps must have some system they live social groups they must have some laws dictating undesired behavior the verb must was warned about that one back kindergarten why must they have such laws jon hey must verb some languages just happens only modifier english but the verb the sentence have this modified must know that must verb some languages complaining about the assertion containing the word must jon
alt.atheism	little too satanic article mimsy umd edu mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes jon livesey writes what said was that people took time copy the text correctly translations present completely different issues why read the papers that the qumram texts had different versions some texts did misunderstand reading newspapers learn about this kind stuff not the best idea the world newspaper reporters are notoriously ignorant the subject religion and are prone exaggeration the interests having real story that bigger headline let back this point have the masoretic text the various targums translations commentaries aramaic etc and the septuagint the ancient greek translation the masoretic text the standard jewish text and essentially does not vary some places has obvious corruptions all which are copied faithfully from copy copy these passages the past were interpreted reference the targums and the septuagint when they took the time copy the text correctly that includes obvious corruptions now the septuagint differs from the masoretic text two particulars first includes additional texts and second some passages there are variant readings from the masoretic text addition fixing predating the various corrupted passages must emphasized that the best knowledge these variations are only signifcant bible scholars and have little theological import when they took the time copy the text correctly that does not exclude variant readings from the masoretic text which are little theological import the dead sea scroll materials add this ancient copy almost all isaiah and fragments various sizes almost all other books there also abundance other material but far know there sign there any hebrew antecdent the apocrypha the extra texts the septuagint far analysis has proceeded there are also variations between the dss texts and the masoretic versions these tend reflect the septuagint where the latter isn obviously error again though the differences thus far are not significant theologically there this big expectation that there are great theological surprises lurking the material but far this hasn happened the dss are important because there almost textual tradition the unlike for the hey you the expert jon
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics article ofp vpdinppwh andrew cmu edu nanci ann miller andrew cmu edu writes timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes there lies the hypocrisy dude atheism takes much faith theism admit besides not believing god means one doesn have deal with all the extra baggage that comes with this leaves person feeling wonderfully free especially after beaten over the head with for years agree that religion and belief often important psychological healer for many people and for that reason think important however trying force psychological fantasy don mean that bad way but that what really someone else who isn interested extremely rude what still believed santa claus and said that should noted that belief god itself more behavoral imperative than lack belief religion which causes the harm not the belief god dan
alt.atheism	faith and dogma article eov aurora engr latech edu ray engr latech edu bill ray writes todd kelley tgk toronto edu wrote faith and dogma are dangerous faith and dogma are inevitable christians merely understand and admit the fact give your proof that god exists that does whichever position you take you are forced faith does good say you take position for show interest the existence god assume does not exist stuff deleted many posters have said many posts lately this just not true for show interest the existence god takes faith all you make the presumption that the knowledge the possibility something enough require faith render that possibilty interest very different thing say that you don believe something than say that you don have sufficent reason believe something even interesting think about not either sometimes just something else more interesting that occupies your mind agree that faith and dogma are inevitable but not necessarily applied god and religion takes both faith and dogma expect the sun come every morning but there overwhelming reason every single day day and day out for everyone put his faith and dogma there not with the christian religion jim halat halat bear com bear stearns whatever doesn kill you will only serve annoy you nyc speak only for myself
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com dan schaertel wrote article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine writes yet still not believer god not concerned with disposition why beneath him provide with the evidence would require believe the evidence that personality given this god would find compelling the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you wouldn punish him with eternal torture didn love but then decent chap seems your god isn the responsibility you love god and take step toward him promises there for you but you have look for yourself looked and wasn another promise broken those who doubt this dispute have not givin sincere effort lying bastard how you know what effort have and have not given simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic our ability reason just spec creation yet some think the ultimate you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now learn you must accept that which you don know can anyone eaplain what just said here peter don forget sing they say there heaven for those who will wait some say better but say ain rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun only the good die young
alt.atheism	you will all hell article cbnewsj att com decay cbnewsj att com dean kaflowitz wrote article portal videocart com dfuller portal videocart com dave fuller writes jsn psuvm psu edu writes you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation what you mean prepared surrounded thumpers like yourself has proven hellish enough and not even dead yet well here how prepared got one those big beach umbrellas some those gel pack ice things big coleman cooler which loaded with miller draft like miller draft sue new pair new balance sneakers sony watchman and couple cartons bonton cheddar cheese popcorn haven decided what wear yet what does one wear eternal damnation dean kaflowitz dress casual only heaven there dress code black tie and self important expression don forget sing they say there heaven for those who will wait some say better but say ain rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun only the good die young
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes jkj fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes some here alt atheism think that condemning the actions some those who call themselves muslims they are condemning islam you read minds rice you know what posters think now not just what they write for myself only have what people are posting here and that what commenting think you may have misunderstood mean that one does not really criticize islam necessarily bringing khomeini etc into the argument for whether not following islam has determined examining his actions against islamic teachings islamic teachings are contained the qur and hadiths reported sayings and doings the prophet that funny thought you were making statement about what people think fact see quoted there jon
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes the way jon found reference claim that the percentage the population that suffers from depression has been increasing this century you requested will start new heading thread post under cool then can discuss the increase radio and use the increase the use fossil fuels the increase air travel and consumption processed bread and you can instruct which them causes increased depression jon
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article qugin horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article qkogg fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes and that area what you care about whether someone sceptical critical and autonomous the one hand gullible excitable and easily led the other indeed may and one may atheist and also gullible excitable and easily led would say that tendency worship tyrants and ideologies indicates that person easily led whether they have worship belief supernatural hero rather than earthly one seems beside the point sure but whether not they are atheists what are discussing not whether they are easily led not you show that these hypothetical atheists are gullible excitable and easily led from some concrete cause that case would also have discuss that concrete cause rather than atheism was the factor that caused their subsequent behaviour jon
alt.atheism	faith and dogma marshall csugrad edu kevin marshall eba hsq csugrad edu wrote don necessarily disagree with your assertion but disagree with your reasoning faith bad dogma bad religion faith dogma religion bad bad religion bad unfortunately you never state why faith and dogma are dangerous faith and dogma are dangerous because they cause people act faith alone which its nature without justification that what mean the word faith belief without justification belief with arbitrary justification with emotional irrational justification for example when someone says that god exists that they don know why they believe god exists they can just feel that faith dogma bad because precludes positive change belief based new information increased mental faculty christians are totally irrational irrational with respect their religion only what are you saying one belief christian god does not make one totally irrational think know what you were getting but rather hear you expand the subject faith and dogma are irrational the faith and dogma part any religion are responsible for the irrationality the individuals claim that faith and dogma are the quintessential part any religion that makes the much overused this context buddism philosophy rather than religion can live with that science not religion because there faith nor dogma philosopher cannot christian because philosopher can change his mind whereas christian cannot due the nature faith and dogma present any religion again this statement too general christian perfectly capable being philosopher and absolutely capable changing his her mind faith god belief and all beliefs may change would you assert that atheists would make poor philosophers because they are predisposed not believe god which course may show unfair bias when studying say religion have you noticed that philosophers tend atheists philosopher not atheist tends called theologian christian tends consider christianity sacred christianity special set beliefs sanctioned god himself and therefore conceive changing those beliefs question the existence that being who makes mistakes faith comes into play dogma comes into play the lord works mysterious ways example faith being used reconcile evidence that the beliefs are flawed sure interpretations what god said are changed satisfy the needs society but when god says something that was said and that that since god said unflawed even the interpretations are flawed science would practiced atheists contrast has built defence against faith and dogma scientist holds sacred the idea that beliefs should change suit whatever the best information available the time and and and scientist understands that any current beliefs are deficient some way the goal keep improving the beliefs the goal keep changing the beliefs reflect the best information currently available that the only rational thing that good philosophy can you see the difference science views beliefs being flawed and new information can obtained improve them how many scientists would claim have complete and perfect understanding everything none would put them out job religion views its beliefs being perfect and the interpretations those beliefs must changed new information acquired which conflicts with them please explain how just because thinking kills people and please state more your answer than waco easier for someone kill person when doesn require good rational justification the killing don consider jewish was born jewish parents this document says jewish good rational justification the way wasn aware mass suicide was problem waco and jonestown were isolated incidents mass suicides are far from common clinton and the fbi would love for you convince them this would save the taxpayer lot money you could todd
alt.atheism	faith and dogma eov aurora engr latech edu ray engr latech edu bill ray wrote faith and dogma are inevitable christians merely understand and admit the fact give your proof that god exists that does whichever position you take you are forced faith does good say you take position for show interest the existence god assume does not exist consider special relativity hasn proved nor has been disproved one has proof one way the other but many people are interested satisfied myself that nothing could indicate absolutely the existence god one way the other the two possibilities are supernaturalism and naturalism course set circumstances can inconsistent with supernaturalism but similarly set circumstances can inconsistent with naturalism naturalism any phenomenon that could described god considered part the natural world studied any other natural phenomenon gravity for instance for example loud godlike voice vociferously announced god exist and will prove reversing the force gravity and then gravity did indeed reverse naturalist probably scientist would say boy sure didn understand gravity well thought did and that loud voice something new perhaps didn understand thunder well thought did either contend that proper implementation the christian faith requires reasoning but that reasoning cannot used throw out things you don like find uncomfortable hedonistic sexual behavior condemned the bible and act true reason will make any less condemned hatred murder gossip all these are condemned there god ordained murder the bible you bet and god ever orders kill you will but will first use the gideon like behavior verifying that god actually ordered the hit and will probably discuss abram like fashion sure glad you don know where live since you don seem realize impossible for you distinguish between voices your head and god voice can hear you now this how jim jones and david koresh justify their behavior delusional religious cults bear the same relationship christianity that rape bears consentual sex form but substance when the southern baptist church the methodist church begin this then you have reason blame mainstream religion for the behaviors these people should associate every negative behavior witness any non christian with you you seem have missed point even jim jones and david koresh were not religious people point remains that faith and dogma are dangerous and religion encourages them jim jones and david koresh also encouraged them point does not rely jim jones and david koresh being religious todd
alt.atheism	faith and dogma article eov aurora engr latech edu ray engr latech edu bill ray writes todd kelley tgk toronto edu wrote faith and dogma are dangerous faith and dogma are inevitable christians merely understand and admit the fact give your proof that god exists that does whichever position you take you are forced faith does good say you take position for show interest the existence god assume does not exist absolutely not true without religion either established one one you invent for yourself the theist and atheist are equally not interested god because without religious revelation there information about god available strip away the dogma and the theists atheists are different simply holding different opinion matter little practical importance contend that proper implementation the christian faith requires reasoning but that reasoning cannot used throw out things you don like find uncomfortable hedonistic sexual behavior condemned the bible and act true reason will make any less condemned hatred murder gossip all these are condemned there god ordained murder the bible you bet and god ever orders kill you will but will first use the gideon like behavior verifying that god actually ordered the hit and will probably discuss abram like fashion sorry but that doesn help what test will you apply decide whether god satan with whom you are speaking how will you know that you have not simply gone insane having delusions you are like loaded gun can hear you now this how jim jones and david koresh justify their behavior delusional religious cults bear the same relationship you not stupid assumed when the southern baptist church the methodist church begin this then you have reason blame mainstream religion for the behaviors these people should associate every negative behavior witness any non christian with you yes all this together each human making small part the definition humanity dan
alt.atheism	thoughts christians article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine wrote article sandvik sandvik kent apple com sandvik newton apple com kent sandvik writes know you can get any physical problems passive christianity unlike smoking not that hard avoid christianity today anyway just ignore right keith err kent whadda you mean you didn see the smiley ouch guess didn sorry but comment was just more irony into the fire cheers kent sandvik newton apple com alink ksand private activities the net
alt.atheism	who has read rushdie the satanic verses article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine wrote article edm apr gocart twisto compaq com edm twisto compaq com mccreary writes while the topic books has anyone else noticed that paine the age reason hard find been wanting pick copy for while but not bad enough mail order noticed though that none the bookstores seem carry thought this was supposed classic what the deal too our local used book store the second largest the west coast and couldn find copy there guess atheists hold their bibles much esteem the theists remember correctly prometheus books have this one stock just call them and ask for the book cheers kent sandvik newton apple com alink ksand private activities the net
alt.atheism	age reason was who has read rushdie this the story kent the archetype finn that lives the bay area and tried purchase thomas paine age reason this man was driving around staceys books inc well cleanlighted place daltons various other places when asked for this book the well educated american book store assistants most placed asked him check out the thriller section then they said that his book has not been published yet but they should receive the book soon some places the assistants bluntly said that they don know such author that not well known living author they don keep copies his books such the life and times america years after the revolution cheers kent sandvik newton apple com alink ksand private activities the net
alt.atheism	some thoughts article rekj darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes james felder spbach lerc nasa gov wrote logic alert argument from incredulity just because hard for you believe this doesn mean that isn true liars can very pursuasive just look koresh that you yourself cite this whole basis great many here rejecting the christian account things the words madalyn murrey hair face folks just silly why okay disbelieve because your incredulity you admit that fallacy isn and wasn aware that this hair chick was reader that doesn support your assertion that the argument the whole basis great many here rejecting dan
alt.atheism	thoughts christians article rgkb darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes kent sandvik sandvik newton apple com wrote the social pressure indeed very important factor for the majority passive christians our world today the case early christianity the promise heavenly afterlife independent your social status was also very promising gift reason slaves and non romans accepted the religion very rapidly this hypothetical proposition you should say fact you should cite your sources all this the amateur sociologist sub branch however would suffice alert the unwary that you are just screwing around what would you accept sources this very thing has been written lots books you could start with erich fromm the dogma christ doug graham dgraham bnr opinions are own
alt.atheism	cruel was political atheists article fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes according jerry mander the absence the sacred good book btw the great binding law the iroquois confederacy also played significant role model for the constitution furthermore apparently marx and engels were strongly influenced study iroquois society using the prime example successful classless egalitarian noncoercive society mander goes say that both the and the would well study the original document figure out where each went wrong and try get right next time that fascinating heard that the chinese rather than the italians invented pasta that fascinating take that you expressing skepticism the idea that those ignorant savages could have influenced the constitution the people who stole their continent you could right but sounds plausible there any reason that you dismiss out hand here some more recent scholarship has shown that the mid indians were not only invited participate the deliberations our founding fathers but that the great binding law the iroquois confederacy arguably became the single most important model for the albany plan union and later the articles confederation and the constitution that this would absent from our school texts and from history and from media not surprising given the devotion americans feel our founding myth great men gathered express new vision that has withstood the test time were revealed that indians had role imagine the blow the american psyche when most these men and others gathered creat the albany plan union the first try confederation they invited forty two members the iroquois grand council serve advisors confederate structures benjamin franklin freely acknowledged his interest the iroquois achievement famous speech albany congress would strange thing six nations ignorant savages sic should capable forming such union and able execute such manner that has subsisted for ages and appears indissoluble and yet that like union should impractical for ten dozen english colonies according grinde franklin convened meetings iroquois chiefs and congressional delegates order hammer out plan that acknowedged similar the iroquois confederacy grinde professor donald grinde the university california riverside whose book the iroquois and the founding fathers the american nation addresses this issue doug graham dgraham bnr opinions are own
alt.atheism	studies book mormon date tue apr gmt from carolyn jean fairman cfairman leland stanford edu agrino enkidu mic andres grino brandt asks about mormons there are some mention about events places historical persons later discovered archeologist one the more amusing things the bom claim that civilization existed north america aroun where the mystical plates were found not only did use steel and other metals but had lots wars very one has ever found any metal swords and traces civilization other than the native americans this just one example from free inquiry winter the following introduction the article joseph smith and the book mormon george smith the introduction written paul kurtz mormonism the church jesus christ latter day saints claims worldwide membership million one the world fastest growing religions with many new converst alone because the church aggressive missionary program covering more than one hundred countries spreading even third world countries mormonism both puritanical moral outlook and evangelical preachment the church run along strict authoritarian lines led president who allegedly receives revelations directly form god and group twelve apostles who attempt maintain orthodoxy belief and practice the church opposed abortion pornography sexual freedom women rights and other its view immoral influences secular society and forbids the use tobacco alcohol coffee and tea centered salt lake city the church extremely wealthy and politically powerful utal and many other western states among well know present day mormons are ezra taft benson former secretary agriculture the osmond family the mariotts the hotel empire and score high placed government officials the mormon church was founded western new york joseph smith who claimed that divine revelation had found gold plates containing hieroglyphics buried hill and that with the help visits from the angel moroni had been able translate the writing into the book mormon the basis mormon belief this book written the commandment god claims that the ancient hebrews settled america about and were the ancestors the american indians mormons believe that those who have been baptized the true church will reunited after death and that deceased non mormon family members can baptized proxy and thus join their relatives the hereafter because these beliefs mormons have been considered outcasts mainline christian denominations and heretics religious fundamentalists joseph smith was controversial figure his day was both worshiped saint and denounced fraud because persecution led his band loyal followers from palmyra new york westward ohio and then illinois where was shot death agry mob brigham young who reportedly had many eighty wives took over the leadership the church and led the mormons further westward found the new zion salt lake city following the teachings joseph smith the practice polygamy was perhaps the mormons most controversial practice nineteenth century america while other religions back many centuries muhammadanism years christianity and judaism and attempts examine their beginnings are difficult extensive historical investigation mormon roots possible some mormons are willing examine this history objectively others maintain that such scrutiny dangerous the faith the following pages free inquiry presents two articles about the mormon church first george smith lifelong member the church provides detailed critical examination joseph smith and his claim the the book mormon was divinely revealed second present portion interview with philosopher sterling mcmurrin also mormon since birth who questions the treatment the history the church mormon authorities paul kurtz the article itself super jimtims psilink com
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com writes simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic why don you cite the passages that can focus some discuss then following jesus you can make fools and our logic you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now indeed you can justifiably make this assertion you must genius logic and making fools should that much easier qpliu princeton edu standard opinion opinions are delta correlated
alt.atheism	logic jesus dps nasa kodak com pontificated simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic can you cite example this please post answer don want receive mail james green jgreen oboe calpoly edu all times and all nations the priest has been hostile liberty thomas jefferson
alt.atheism	islamic authority over women kmr cwru edu keith ryan pontificated how many moslem men does take rape woman five one commit the act and four witness the penetration guilty verdict can rendered only there confession there are least two male witnesses the crime adultery and rape are proved only four witnesses have seen the actual penetration occurrence that presumably does not happen often this from the quran however spelled james green jgreen oboe calpoly edu all times and all nations the priest has been hostile liberty thomas jefferson
alt.atheism	help you god court heard that california they ask you swear without any mention god what states actually include god the courtroom oath james green jgreen oboe calpoly edu all times and all nations the priest has been hostile liberty thomas jefferson
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality article apr abo mandtbacka finabo abo mats andtbacka writes fpv horus mchp sni frank uucp writes article apr abo mandtbacka finabo abo mats andtbacka writes that old chestnut your claim that moral objectivism scientific objectivism don agree with now try proving through some objective moral test that disagreeing incorrect your claim which you have deleted now was not universal not objective deleted now the interest brevity back step and you see was still your post yes that was claim you can refute then please firstly apology you hadn deleted your claim and was mistaken saying you had sorry for any offence caused secondly how can refute your definition can only point its logical implications and say that they seem contradict the usage the word objective other areas indeed your definition objective oxymoron for all have quibble with that belief other than that useless and that objective perfectly good word what objective not the age the universe anyway show above how many ages can the universe have and still internally self consistent amazed was more than one how many different moral systems can different members society have indeed single individuals some cases and humanity still stick together begging the question people can have many opinions about the age the universe and humanity can still stick together you are saying that the universe has real age independent beliefs about why the age the universe like most scientific facts can emirically verified through means that give the same result matter who performs the testing albeit there are error bars that may the largish side this assumes that the universe has real age any kind reality which doesn depend what think why should extreme biblical creationist give rat ass about the means which you speak heard way verify morality consistent way much less compute the errors the measurement care enlighten the same true pain but painkillers exist and can predicted work with some accuracy better than random guess wrote elsewhere that morality should hypotheses about observed value moral system makes prediction will better that can tested and falsifiable the same way prediction this drug will relieve pain people ideas about the age object are not objective you can have any idea you like and can stop you universae and their ages another ballgame they are what they are and you dislike some detail them that problem with your opinion them sure assume objective reality and you get statements like this claim that morality opinion ours and such subjective and individual wrong then some more less objectively real thing exists which you label objective morality can you back this positive claim existence can you back your positive claim above that because assumption make the same assumption about values the basis that there logical difference between the two and the empirical basis the two precisely the same point morals are essence personal opinions usually ideally well founded motivated such but nonetheless personal the fact that real large lot people agree some moral question sometimes even for the same reason does not make morals objective makes humans somewhat alike their opinions that moral question which can good for the evolution social species and real large lot nice phrase people agree that there football desk supposed see logical difference between the two perhaps you can explain the difference since you seem see clearly take look the desk perform test football then accept theory else tell people they hallucinating now take look morality see anything please inform which way look and why look that particular way opposed some other get drift just look are you claiming never know what good means science whole other matter altogether says you prove that those who disagree are wrong that simple matter proving the track record the scientific method think great and should applied values may completely wrong but that what conclude result quite amount thought frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	some thoughts article reyf darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner wrote kent sandvik sandvik newton apple com wrote article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine wrote someone spank wrong but didn lord liar lunatic originate with lewis who this campollo fellow anyway think and isn there clear connection with the believe because absurd notion one the original christians origen there similar statement attributed anselm believe that may understand both cases reason somewhat less exalted than anyone posting here could accept which means that neither statement can properly analysed this venue bill think you have misunderstanding about atheism lack belief god does not directly imply lack understanding transcendental values hope you would accept the fact that for instance buddhists appreciate issues related non empirical reasoning without the need automatically believe theism think reading couple books related buddhism might revise and fine tune your understanding non christian systems cheers kent sandvik newton apple com alink ksand private activities the net
alt.atheism	christian morality article pww spac rice edu pww spacsun rice edu peter simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic our ability reason just spec creation yet some think the ultimate you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now learn you must accept that which you don know can anyone eaplain what just said here can seems jesus used logic make people using logic look like fools that does not sound right maybe just told they were fools and that and people believed that hmm does not sound reasonable either find always very intriguing see people stating that transcendental values can explained and then the next sentence they try explain these unexplained values highly strange cheers kent sandvik newton apple com alink ksand private activities the net
alt.atheism	thoughts christians article rgkb darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner wrote kent sandvik sandvik newton apple com wrote the social pressure indeed very important factor for the majority passive christians our world today the case early christianity the promise heavenly afterlife independent your social status was also very promising gift reason slaves and non romans accepted the religion very rapidly this hypothetical proposition you should say fact you should cite your sources all this the amateur sociologist sub branch however would suffice alert the unwary that you are just screwing around well remember jacoby mythmaker talks about this cite one source but not sure all christians have read this book addition social experiences from being raised and educated lutheran having lot christian friends and even have played two christian rock bands over you you have any counter claims sources rest that shows that christianity does not have the concept social promise that independent the social status cheers kent sandvik newton apple com alink ksand private activities the net
alt.atheism	islamic authority over women article darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner wrote credit religion with the awesome power dominate history misunderstand human nature the function religion and course history believe that those who distort history this way know exaclty what they doing and only for affect however underestimate the power religion creating historical events also big misunderstanding for instance would the year old war have ever started there were fractions between the protestants and the vatican cheers kent sandvik newton apple com alink ksand private activities the net
alt.atheism	death penalty was political atheists article rlyz darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner wrote this fascinating atheists argue for abortion defend homosexuality means population control insist that the only values are biological and condemn war and capital punishment according benedikt something contardictory cannot exist which this case means atheists suppose would like understand how atheist can object war excellent means controlling population growth capital punishment sorry but the logic escapes and why just capital punishment what being questioned here the propriety killing punishment what the basis the ecomplaint bill ever heard secular humanism please check out what this stands for and then revise your statements above cheers kent sandvik newton apple com alink ksand private activities the net
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article qugin horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article qkogg fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes and that area what you care about whether someone sceptical critical and autonomous the one hand gullible excitable and easily led the other indeed may and one may atheist and also gullible excitable and easily led would say that tendency worship tyrants and ideologies indicates that person easily led whether they have worship belief supernatural hero rather than earthly one seems beside the point sure but whether not they are atheists what are discussing not whether they are easily led not you show that these hypothetical atheists are gullible excitable and easily led from some concrete cause that case would also have discuss that concrete cause rather than atheism was the factor that caused their subsequent behaviour not arguing that atheism causes such behaviour merely that not relevant the definition atheism which lack belief gods frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	islamic genocide article fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article qkovl fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes false dichotomy you claimed the killing were not religiously motivated and saying that wrong not saying that each and every killing religiously motivate spelled out detail which killings you say are religously motivated for example would claim that the recent assassination four catholic construction workers who had connection with the ira was probably religously motivated the time writing think that someone who claims the current violence motivated religion reaching what would you call when someone writes the killings are not religously motivated say was motivated primitive notion revenge and misguided patriotism otherwise have wonder how come mainland catholics are not killed mainland protestants and southern catholics are not killed southern protestants and take away all plausible causes bar religion and the violence diminishes markedly gee why that now possible argue that religion the past major contributing factor the violence the present but don know any evidence that this and not enough historian debate given that the avowed aim the ira take northern ireland into country that has particular church written into its constitution and which has restriction civil rights dictated that church fail see why the word past appropriate the country also has different official language written its constitution and vice versa maybe they motivated love irish poetry your argument fallacious jon for what worth agree with all that you say about ireland above and more frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions was genocide caused atheism article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes deletion god the one who created the night the day the sun and the moon each travelling orbit with its own motion qur the positive aspect this verse noted maurice bucaille that while geocentrism was the commonly accepted notion the time and for long time afterwards there notion geocentrism this verse anywhere the qur well that certainly different but looks there translation found for everything the way most surprised hear that night and day move orbit and that the sun travels orbit without saying that earth does too sounds geocentric benedikt
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality article inr lvi horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes deletion and real large lot nice phrase people agree that there football desk supposed see logical difference between the two perhaps you can explain the difference since you seem see clearly rest deleted that fallacy and not the first time pointed out not fallacy note the supermajority disinterested people agree fundamantal value not doing ethics yet benedikt then what the difference between that and those people agreeing trivial observation the reference not yet being ethics dubious you have used the terms absolute objective and others interchangeably same with moral values values all worth measuers and usefulness you infer from them they were the same the when the not fulfilled your intermission waste time assuming that you don intend this reasonable conclude that you want argue point you have made interesting statement here namely that the disinterested observer there such thing morals probably the shortest proof for objective and morality being contradiction for one you have never given set morals people agree upon unlike football further you conveniently ignore here that there are many who would not agree tghe morality something the analogy does not hold have however given example value people agree and explained why people will agree that their freedom valuable have also stated that such value necessary condition for doing objective ethics the assertion above and that what talking about there isn point talking about ethics this can agreed fine and that freedom valuable not generally agreed upon could name quite lot people who state the opposite not that that wasn mentioned before other words you have nothing fulfill your strong claims with one can expect sufficiently many people agree its being football while you have give the evidence that only vanishing number disagrees with set morals you have give not doing morals ethics can get past values say the only cogent objection freedom example that maybe people aren talking about the same thing when they answer that valuable maybe not and want think about this some especially the implications its being true clutching straw don believe mappings into metaphysical sets were loaded terms are fixpoints those who deny the morality freedom make quite clear what they say their practice telling yes there are even those who are willingly unfree quite common religions the way for one there religion which named submission don even try argue that submission freedom further the above evidence not proof proof would evolve out testing your theory absolute morals against competing theories garbage that not proof either were would argue case but afraid that that considered proof the above one the arguments you reiterate while you never answer the objections evidence that you are preacher name that fallacy there something universally valued moral context benedikt
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law qla afp fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article jkj fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes hope islamic bank something other than bcci which ripped off many small depositors among the muslim community the and elsewhere deletions bbci was example islamically owned and operated bank what will someone bet they weren real islamic owners and operators and yet actually turned out long running and quite ruthless operation steal money from small and often quite naive depositors islamic bank something which operates different fashion your modern bank have explained here another thread before for example islamic banks don pay fixed interests deposits but return investments which varies according the market and not fixed like interest islamic banks are relatively new phenomenon the islamic world there are islamic banks the west including the usa knowledge doubt the market for them exists there least not while islamic banks are relatively early stage their development the case now bcci most certainly not islamic bank did bcci ever pay fixed interest rate deposits the answer this question yes then bcci was not islamic bank islamic banks are specifically set not pay charge interest whether some muslims partially owned the bank whatever completely irrelevant fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long this the most unmitigated bilge seen while jim brown obviously has possession the right wing token diplomatic alternatives including sanctions were ineffective december former national security adviser zbigniew brzezinski told senate committee that sanctions were costing iraq million per day and that the multinational coalition could take all the time the world iraq suggested was losing badly every day defied the demands while the community nations won every day with taking life loss life fcnl washington newsletter the world full evil and circumstances are not perfect many innocents suffer due the wrongful actions others regretable but that the way wrongful actions murderers like leaders the government perhaps regrettable course the way certainly not the media not totally monolithic there are even conservative sources out there you know where look hurrah for rush good heavens escapee from rush limbot land conservative ass and btw the reason brought the blanket bombing germany was because you were bemoaning the iraqi civilian casualties being deplorable yet blanket bombing was instituted because bombing wasn accurate enough hit industrial military targets decisive way any other method that time but the gulf war precision bombing was the norm bullshit the gulf massacre all ordnance used was smart the rest that was just regular dumb iron bombs and stuff have you forgotten that the pentagon definition successful patriot launch was when the missile cleared the launching tube with damage that successful interception scud was defined the patriot and scud passed each other the same area the sky and the that was the smart stuff hit again try follow here that means this smart arsenal missed the stories hundreds thousands iraqi civilian dead just plain bunk prove have source that says that date the civilian death count excuse mean collateral damage about one has attempted calculate the costs execution washington state but studies elsewhere suggest costs far more than incarceration california spending more than million annually capital cases and until this year hadn executed anyone since texas the national leader the number executions spends estimated million per execution that compares average cost incarceration washington state per maximum security prisoner per year shamim mohamed uunet noao cmcl arizona shamim shamim arizona edu take this cross and garlic here mezuzah jewish page the koran muslim and zen buddhist you your own member the league for programming freedom write lpf uunet net
alt.atheism	gulf war was death penalty was political atheists article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes looked back this and asked some questions various people and got the following information which had claimed and you pooh poohed the has not sold iraq any arms what about the land mines which have already been mentioned asked around one the areas you suggested yourself and presented the information got mention landmines was given other countries like kuwait information hard prove you are claiming that the sold information prove information hard prove almost certainly the did sell information then that fact classified and you can prove very neat dismiss everything say unless can prove beyond shadow doubt something which you yourself admit can never prove your satisfaction thanks stick squaring circles mathew okay you are going blindly believe things without reasonable evidence didn realize you were theist doubting claim presented without any evidence support you are able present real evidence for then great but unsupported claims even claims such and such news agency will not accepted you want stick the sheer impossible instead the merely difficult then fine the statement that such fact classified then you can prove simple matter pragmatics and the law you have access classified information that you know classified and you reveal there good chance that you someone else the person who revealed you going jail never said that you couldn prove satisfaction merely said that was difficult who said try and make things easy for people arguing with unless course they need the handicap mccullou whipple wisc edu never program and drink beer the same time doesn work
alt.atheism	gulf war and peace niks article lva fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article apr batman bmd trw com jbrown batman bmd trw com writes article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes wait minute doug know you are better informed than that the has never invaded nicaragua far know the invaded nicaragua several times this century including october andf again february haiti was occupied thanks jon had forgotten about the and invasions had ever learned them mean really forgot but read the context more recent such when the sandinistas were expecting imminent invasion from the which never happened stand corrected thanks panama invaded true twice this century the created panama the first place fomenting and then intervening civil war the then republic colombia troops landed colombia help with the uprising and then colombia was duly dismembered and replaced two countries order that the could build the panama canal the new republic panama remembered this one this one and bush invasion were the two mentioned above good teddy knew how get things done jon regards jim
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com writes article ousrvr oulu kempmp phoenix oulu petri pihko writes dan schaertel dps nasa kodak com wrote what does this mean learn you must accept that you don know something right but learn you must accept something don know why this not the way prefer learn unwise merely swallow everything you read suppose write book telling how the great invisible pink unicorn has helped daily problems would you accept this since you can know whether true not one asks you swallow everything fact jesus warns against but let ask you question you beleive what you learn history class for that matter anything school mean just what other people have told you and you don want swallow what others say right right there way get into sceptical heart you can not say you have given sincere effort with the attitude you seem have you must trust not just church and participate activities were you ever willing die for what you believed the branch dividians were they believed and trusted much that became impossible turn back reality what you are advocating total irreversible brainwashing dan
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism article hqd horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article qugin horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article qkogg fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes and that area what you care about whether someone sceptical critical and autonomous the one hand gullible excitable and easily led the other indeed may and one may atheist and also gullible excitable and easily led would say that tendency worship tyrants and ideologies indicates that person easily led whether they have worship belief supernatural hero rather than earthly one seems beside the point sure but whether not they are atheists what are discussing not whether they are easily led not you show that these hypothetical atheists are gullible excitable and easily led from some concrete cause that case would also have discuss that concrete cause rather than atheism was the factor that caused their subsequent behaviour not arguing that atheism causes such behaviour merely that not relevant the definition atheism which lack belief gods throw away the faq can all just ask dwyer since can define the thing that the rest only talk about jon
alt.atheism	gulf war selling arms article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes jbrown batman bmd trw com writes mathew agree this seems the crux your whole position isn that the shouldn have supported hussein and sold him arms fight iran agree and agree ruthlessly hunting down those who did but did sell arms hussein and done deal now invades kuwait just sit back and say well sold him all those arms suppose just wants use them now too bad for kuwait unfortunately sitting back and letting things not the way correct former mistake destroying hussein military potential did was the right move but agree with your statement reagan and bush made grave error judgment sell arms hussein but still happening that the entire point only last month john major hailed great victory that had personally secured sale arms saudi arabia the same month sold jet fighters the same indonesian government that busy killing the east timorese heard about the arms sale saudi arabia now how such grave mistake sell saudi arabia weapons are you claiming that shouldn sell any weapons other countries straightforward answer please all very well say oops made boo boo better clean the mistake but the and keep making the same mistake they often that can believe not deliberate this suspicion reinforced the fact that the mistake extremely profitable one for decrepit economy reliant arms sales who benefits from arms sales hint isn normally the gov the contractor that builds that piece equipment believe not the and don export the huge quantities arms that you have just accused them doing arms exports are rare enough that requires act congress for non small arms most countries not all you believe telling everyone who can what and who can sell their goods whom mathew mccullou whipple wisc edu never program and drink beer the same time doesn work
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice wrote stuff deleted now not believe blindly following anyone matter how knowledgeable she may islamic law someone tells islam says such and such immediately say show the support for this statement from the qur and sunnah believe this islamic duty for according one hadith the prophet peace and blessings god with him your leader tells you enter fire and you and kill yourself then you have sinned for doing wrong even though you were blindly following the instructions your leader responsible for own actions not abu hanifa imam malik etc even blindly following the opinions abu hanifa etc with this mind understanding must look the reasoning behind such opinions muslims that support khomeini fatwa now understanding the hadith upon which those who support khomeini fatwa relating particular instance that occurred during war time now brother general imho ridiculous and wrong say that hadith relating the actions war usable during times peace think any sensible human being can see this personally think that the reasoning some our ulema this matter faulty for they think legitimate use acts war times peace regarding this particular subject you think wrong please feel free say with your reasoning from qur and hadith please not because somebody said want the reasoning from qur and the sahih hadiths perhaps should take our discussion soc religion islam please email rashid you think should this the way also disagree with your opinion regarding the punishment for apostasy the viewpoint follow that there general punishment for apostasy very strongly supported qur and hadith this very well shown the book punishment islamic law mohamed awa american trust publications reiterate that would agree with you that there little justification for the punishment apostasy the qur islamic history well apostasy has rarely been punished belief considered matter conscience and since there compulsion the matter belief apostates have been generally left believe not believe they will however when apostate makes attacks upon god and his messenger the situation changes now the charge apostasy may complicated with other charges perhaps charges sedition treason spying etc the person makes public issue their apostasy mounts public attacks opposed arguement against islam the situation likewise complicated the person spreads slander broadcasts falsehoods again the situation changes the punishments vary according the situation the apostate anyhow the charge aggravated apostasy would only subsidiary charge rushdie case there distinction the qur between formal war situation and being the situation where someone unilaterally wages war their actions creates disorder makes mischief etc against the muslims and creates situation that results harm muslims here small group even single individual could said engaged such practise other words there clear difference between formal war situation where two clearly defined parties wage war conclude treaties exchange prisoners etc and dealing with attacks that come from isolated individuals groups against islam the second situation the unilateral attack and the spreading fasad that would apply the case rushdie the matter rushdie not simple matter banning offensive book banning the book secondary full set circumstances following the publication the book come into play well including the deaths many muslims and rushdie and his publishers media games now not believe blindly following anyone matter how knowledgeable she may islamic law someone tells islam says such and such immediately say show the support for this statement from the qur and sunnah believe this islamic duty for according one hadith the prophet peace and blessings god with him your leader tells you enter fire and you and kill yourself then you have sinned for doing wrong even though you were blindly following the instructions your leader responsible for own actions not abu hanifa imam malik etc even blindly following the opinions abu hanifa etc now understanding the hadith upon which those who support khomeini fatwa relating particular instance that occurred during war time now brother general imho ridiculous and wrong say that hadith relating the actions war usable during times peace think any sensible human being can see this personally think that the reasoning some our ulema this matter faulty for they think legitimate use acts war times peace regarding this particular subject not sure which hadith you are referring above believe that one the qur anic verses which the fatwa based every verse the qur has corresponding circumstance revelation but way the understanding the tafsir the verse restricted solely the particular historical circumstance which was revealed this was the case then could say that all the laws and regulations that were revealed when the muslims were not involved conflict should suspended when they were war the logic does not follow complex real life situations there may many verses and many hadiths which can all related single complicated situation the internal relationships between these verses may quite complex such that arriving understanding how the verses interlock and how each applies the particular situation can quite demanding task not necessarily simple this that process there may many parameters involved there may larger context which particular situation should viewed all these matters impinge the situation other words there great deal involved deciphering the qur the qur asks reflect its verses but this reflection must entail more than simply reading verse and its corresponding hadith the reflection for the sake increasing personal piety then each person has his own level understanding and there harm that however the reflection order decide matters that pertain the state the gestation laws and rulings the gestation society the dispensing justice the guidance the community then there are certain minimum requirements understanding that one should achieve jaffar ibn muhammad sadiq relates some these requirements taught the prophet hadith who does not distinguish the book allah the abrogating verse from the abrogated one and specific one from general one and decisive from ambiguous and does not differentiate between permission and obligation and does not recognize verse meccan period from medinite one and does not know the circumstances revelation and does not understand the technical words the qur whether simple compound and does not comprehend the knowledge decree and measure and ignorant advancing and delaying its verses and does not distinguish the clear from the deep nor the manifest from the esoteric nor the beginning from the termination and unaware the question and the answer the disjoining and the joining and the exceptions and the all inclusive and ignorant adjective preceding noun that explains the subsequent one and unaware the emphasized subject and the detailed one the obligatory laws and the permissions the places the duties and rules and the meaning the lawful and the unlawful and does not know the joined words and the words that are related those coming before them after them then such man does not know the qur nor among the people the qur based these and other hadiths and accordance with many qur anic verses why should not company from every group remain behind gain profound understanding tafaqquh religion and warn people when they return them that they may beware science jurisprudence arose the requirements for person considered mujtahid one who can pronounce matters law and religion are many listed few major divisions below there are course many subdivisions within these headings knowledge arabic syntax conjugation roots semantics oratory knowledge tafsir and principles tafsir logic mantiq knowledge hadiths knowledge transmitters rijal knowledge the principles juriprudence qur sunnah consensus reasoning the study qur and sunnah for purposes law involves discussion imperatives awamir discussion negative imperatives nawahi discussion generalities and particularities aam khas discussion unconditional and conditional discussion tacit meanings discussion the abstract and the clear discussion the abrogator and the abrogated the principles application the law involves principles exemption principles precaution principles option principles mastery the jurisprudent bound through very rigorous process pronouncing judgement given situation not matter looking one verse and one hadith now one should blindly follow anyone but there difference between blind following and acceding the opinion someone who clearly more knowledgeable and more qualified than oneself there the famous hadith the prophet which says the fuqaha religious scholars are the trustees the prophet long they not concern themselves with the illicit desires pleasures and wealth this world the prophet was asked messenger god how may know they concern themselves replied seeing whether they follow the ruling power they that fear for your religion and shun them not yet know enough about the imams the four sunni madhabs comment how this hadith applies them the contemporary scholars who base themselves upon them the prophet also refered the fuqaha the fortress islam only point make clear that arriving legal judgement calls into play certain amount expertise the specifics this expertise delineated the qur and hadith those who acquire this expertise are praised both the qur and hadith those who without the requisite knowledge pronounce matters that affect society state and religion are cautioned the only reason said anything all about the rushdie affair this group because the whole basis for the discussion the fatwa that apostasy was wrong when one discusses something they should least base their discussion fact secondly khomeini was condemned heretic because supposedly claimed infallible another instance creating straw man and then beating him perhaps should take our discussion soc religion islam please email rashid you think should this agree that should move the discussion another newsgroup unfortunately not have any access email private discussion moderated group out the question cannot post moderated group like soc religion islam how about soc culture arabic talk religion misc salaam laikum
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger wrote have already made the clear claim that khomeini advocates views which are contradition with the qur and have given arguments for this this something that can checked anyone sufficiently interested khomeini being dead really can respond but another poster who supports khomeini has responded with what clearly obfuscationist sophistry this should quite clear atheists they are less susceptible religionist modes obfuscationism don mind saying this but the best example obfuscation condemn without having even your most basic facts straight you want some examples back and look your previous posts where you manage get your facts wrong about the fatwa and khomeini supposed infallibility salaam laikum
alt.atheism	consciousness part kev strikes back kevin anthoney kax nott wrote about reply diplomatic society that constantly the verge flaming usenet diplomacy the best way ensure the voice reason gets through isn realize fighting occam razor this argument try explain why feel mind necessary kevin unfortunately you are now delving into field know too little about algorithms your reasoning see very much along the lines roger penrose who claimed that mathematical insight cannot algorithmic his book the emperor new mind concerning computers minds and the laws physics however penrose claim that has mathematical insight your similar claim that wavefunctions collapse only when consciously take look could just illusions are obviouslu taking very different viewpoints try ponder the problem consciousness from evolutionary perspective realising that might not anything special but certainly useful thinking back what wrote you think worms have minds not they are able experience pain least they behave just like that yet conceivable that might some day the future perform total synthesis elegans from the elements would such worm have mind firstly not impressed with the ability algorithms they great solving problems once the method has been worked out but not working out the method itself this true some extent however not think that our brains work like computers all fact there substantial evidence skarda skarda freeman that brains work more less chaotically generating enough randomness for mental states evolve our brains work much like genetic algorithm generators suppose the trick still has there some form discovered does this mean that all the ideas will ever have are already pre programmed into our brains this somewhat unlikely given that our brains ultimately are encoded chromosomes worth genetic material much which isn used indeed this extremely unlikely given the vast impact nurture our mind and brain suggest however that before trying understand our consciousness collection algorithms kevin take look the references mentioned and think again still think the best experts the nature conscious mind are neurologists neuropsychologists and biologists but not flame for opinions since they study beings that are conscious the reason repeating advice that this discussion cannot lead anywhere our backgrounds are too different and please not bring into this discussion all not all physicists are happy with the claim that our consciousness plays some special role physics would say doesn the other problem with algorithms their instability not many algorithms survive you take out large portion their code yet people survive strokes without going completely haywire there are side effects but patients still seem remarkably stable also neurons perfectly healthy people are dying alarming rate can algorithm survive randomly corrupt various bits code again brains are not computers don forget this this does not mean they need something else work they just work differently their primary purpose perception and guidance action self awareness and high intelligence are later appearances the next problem the sticky question what colour replace colour with the sensation your choice presumably the materialist viewpoint that the product some kind chemical reaction the usual products such reaction are energy different chemicals colour mixture these you are still expecting that could find the idea green our brains somewhere perhaps the form some chemical this not how see the sensation green certain time dependent pattern the area our visual cortex and distributed with the help areas and the rest the brain indeed firing pattern have sometimes thought our consciousness global free induction pattern these local firing patterns but this just idle speculation scientific american september issue was special issue mind and brain have you already read from cover cover there are two articles visual perception you might interested but again please note that subjective experiences cannot observed from third person perspective see nothing but neuronal activity cannot conclude that this not the mind kalat writes about numerous examples where electric stimulation different areas brain have led various changes the patients state mind for instance patient whose septal area was stimulated without his knowledge remote control during psychiatric interview was quickly cured his depression and started discussing plan seduce his girlfriend stimulations the temporal lobe have sometimes led embarrassing situations when the patients have started flirting with the therapist conclusion there evidence that brains are essentially necessary for subjective experiences brain damage usually equivalent some sort mind damage conscious processes involve substantial brain activity various areas brain when think colours our visual cortex activated etc consciousness afterthought become conscious our actions with half second delay and our brains are ahead our conscious will least thus think fruitful turn the question why see colours around and ask what this that seems observing since seems that our conscious mind not the king our brains this computer won see colour because the chemistry different does algorithm that sees colour have selective advantage over equivalent that doesn shouldn because the outputs each algorithm ought the same equivalent circumstances why see colour this depends what meant seeing colours does neural network that capable recognising handwritten numbers from see the numbers capable sorting them you are asking why does animal who conscious itself observer have evolutionary advantage over animal who doesn have good answer read previous posting where wrote why sense identity helps social animals swap roles and act more morally that they don unconsciously kill each other with newly discovered weapons bit extreme but this the basic idea when early homo became more and more efficient using tools sense identity and the concept self had evolve line with this development indeed respect for others and conscious altruistic behaviour might evolutionary advantages for social animals such early humans remember correctly quantum mechanics consists wavefunction with two processes acting the first process has been called unitary evolution governed schroedinger equation and well known the second process called various things such collapse the wavefunction state vector reduction and more mysterious usually said occur when measurement takes place although nobody seems know precisely when that occurs when does occur the effect abruptly change the wavefunction minds are required for this does this mean that until human minds came the scene wavefunctions never collapsed but remained the superpositions for aeons how powerful are this has been discussed before and think this topic irrelevant since not agree that minds are necessary and neither physicists anyway speculating that minds would part there seems some link between consciousness and that never see linear superpositions anything although there are alternative explainations for this idea how brain supposed access part but since this only speculation that won matter too much main point that there might place for minds physics agree but not the sense you apparently mean above physics needs sharp minds solve many real problems back nice padded cell now that with you you don forget take with you the references wrote about previous posting plus the following kalat james biological psychology wadsworth publishing company belmont skarda explaining behavior bringing the brain back inquiry skarda freeman how brains make chaos order make sense the world behavioral and brain sciences petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics the truth pihatie finou oulu physics the rule oulu kempmp the game finland phoenix oulu chemistry the game
alt.atheism	consciousness part kev strikes back scott sauyet ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu wrote apr nott kevin anthony kax nott writes firstly not impressed with the ability algorithms they great solving problems once the method has been worked out but not working out the method itself crossword example deleted have you heard neural networks read little about them and they seems overcome most your objections sure there are many people who work with neural networks and read this newsgroup please tell kevin what you achieved and what you expect not saying that nns will solve all such problems but think they show that not hard you think come with mechanical models consciousness indeed think dualism non solution dennett recently put dead horse petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics the truth pihatie finou oulu physics the rule oulu kempmp the game finland phoenix oulu chemistry the game
alt.atheism	consciousness part kev strikes back article apr ousrvr oulu kempmp phoenix oulu petri pihko writes kevin anthoney kax nott wrote this post probably either brilliant insane let know which brilliant example using the introspective objection against materialist theories consciousness diplomatic realize fighting occam razor this argument try explain why feel mind necessary firstly not impressed with the ability algorithms they great solving problems once the method has been worked out but not working out the method itself specific example like solve numerical crosswords not the simple the sums and insert the answers type the hard ones these with any efficiency you need figure out variety tricks now know that you can program computer these puzzles but doing you have work out the tricks yourself and program them into the computer you can course obfuscate the trick and write the program that uncovered but far can see the trick still has there some form discovered does this mean that all the ideas will ever have are already pre programmed into our brains this somewhat unlikely given that our brains ultimately are encoded chromosomes worth genetic material much which isn used one way around this bring the environment into the equation but again far can see this still has air you see object then perform action and don seem get anywhere the algorithm has anticipate what might see and what conclusions draw from experience the other problem with algorithms their instability not many algorithms survive you take out large portion their code yet people survive strokes without going completely haywire there are side effects but patients still seem remarkably stable also neurons perfectly healthy people are dying alarming rate can algorithm survive randomly corrupt various bits code the next problem the sticky question what colour replace colour with the sensation your choice presumably the materialist viewpoint that the product some kind chemical reaction the usual products such reaction are energy different chemicals colour mixture these this computer won see colour because the chemistry different does algorithm that sees colour have selective advantage over equivalent that doesn shouldn because the outputs each algorithm ought the same equivalent circumstances why see colour however such view actually nonsolution how should minds able act observers feel pain and pleasure and issue commands any better than the brain moreover how the interactions occur bit idle speculation remember correctly quantum mechanics consists wavefunction with two processes acting the first process has been called unitary evolution governed schroedinger equation and well known the second process called various things such collapse the wavefunction state vector reduction and more mysterious usually said occur when measurement takes place although nobody seems know precisely when that occurs when does occur the effect abruptly change the wavefunction envisage interaction between the wavefunction and something else which shall imaginitively call part seems reasonable assume that something causes although that something might the wavefunction itself which case part simply the wavefunction note though that need more than explain anyway speculating that minds would part there seems some link between consciousness and that never see linear superpositions anything although there are alternative explainations for this idea how brain supposed access part but since this only speculation that won matter too much main point that there might place for minds physics back nice padded cell now that with you petri kevin anthoney kax nott don believe anything you read sig files
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com dan schaertel wrote the life death and resurection christ documented historical fact not any standard history seen care back this sans the lies apologists are fond however all the major events the life jesus christ were fortold hundreds years before him neat trick not really most the prophesies aren even prophesies they prayers and comments taken from the torah quite out context seems xians started lying right from the beginning there way get into sceptical heart you can not say you have given sincere effort with the attitude you seem have arrogant ass aren you must trust not just church and participate activities you wrong think haven the trust was something that doesn exist were you ever willing die for what you believed still willing die for what believe and don believe were the loonies waco what besides the point not die for what one believes the point make that other sorry son bitch die for what believes doesn anyone else here get tired these cretins tirades peter the damed and damned proud don forget sing they say there heaven for those who will wait some say better but say ain rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun only the good die young
alt.atheism	cults religions article bfe aurora engr latech edu ray engr latech edu bill ray wrote james thomas green jgreen trumpet calpoly edu wrote conclusion can shown that there essentially logical argument which clearly differentiates cult from religion challenge anyone produce distinction which clear and can easily knocked down how about this one religion cult which has stood the test time religion cult that got opted people who are better compartmentalizing their irrationality peter don forget sing they say there heaven for those who will wait some say better but say ain rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun only the good die young
alt.atheism	gulf war and peace niks article rusnews mantis mathew mathew mantis writes jbrown batman bmd trw com writes the problem with most peace niks they consider those who are not like them bad and unconscionable would not have any argument problem with peace nik they held their ideals and stayed out all conflicts issues especially those dealing with the national defense but they are not willing allow legitimately hold different point view they militate and many times resort violence all the name peace yawn another right wing wasp imagining oppressed minority perhaps camille paglia right after all personal attacks would not have any argument problem with peace nik they stayed out all conflicts issues bet you wouldn you love deliberate misinterpretation persons statement cutting out the part the statement tries blunt the thrust the sentence never addresses the issue extreemist peace people not holding true their ideals but what makes you think that sitting back saying nothing about defense issues and letting people like you make all the decisions anything with their ideals ignoring the challenge ignores the challenge that extreemists for peace tend quite insistent that everyone accept their ideals for the world and have even turned quite violent witness chicago summer mathew paranoia assumes that anyone who argues against his viewpoint must masturbate over guns ammo fire the oven isn hot enough mccullou whipple wisc edu never program and drink beer the same time doesn work
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long article optima arizona edu sham arizona edu shamim zvonko mohamed writes this the most unmitigated bilge seen while jim brown obviously has possession the right wing token diplomatic alternatives including sanctions were ineffective december former national security adviser zbigniew brzezinski told senate committee that sanctions were costing iraq million per day and that the multinational coalition could take all the time the world iraq suggested was losing badly every day defied the demands while the community nations won every day with taking life loss life fcnl washington newsletter understand that number deceptive the reason that the money cost was non oil sales for the most part iraq still not allowed sell oil many the things under the initial sanctions but still surviving and btw the reason brought the blanket bombing germany was because you were bemoaning the iraqi civilian casualties being deplorable yet blanket bombing was instituted because bombing wasn accurate enough hit industrial military targets decisive way any other method that time but the gulf war precision bombing was the norm bullshit the gulf massacre all ordnance used was smart the rest that was just regular dumb iron bombs and stuff have you forgotten that the pentagon definition successful patriot launch was when the missile cleared the launching tube with damage that successful interception scud was defined the patriot and scud passed each other the same area the sky the have heard figures closer but won quibble your figures most was dropped carpet bombing regions only occupied enemy troops drops lot bombs one sortie and used them around the clock not mention other smaller aircraft using dumb munitions the patriot uses proximity fuse the adjusted figures for number patriot kills derivitives that figure came not from some fluke the pentagon but someone working with such stuff another part dod the statement precision bombing was the norm true around areas where civilians were close the target dropped tonnage very little bombs populated regions explaining the figures and the that was the smart stuff hit again try follow here that means this smart arsenal missed this figure far below all the other figures have seen indeed accurate then how you explain the discrepancy between that figure and other figures from international organizations most figures have seen place the hit ratio close which still far higher than your does your figure say bomb missed the plane took off with and the bomb never hit the target regardless whether not the bomb was dropped such methods are used all the time lie with statistics the stories hundreds thousands iraqi civilian dead just plain bunk prove have source that says that date the civilian death count excuse mean collateral damage about have never seen any source that was claiming such figure please post the source its reliability can judged mccullou whipple wisc edu never program and drink beer the same time doesn work
alt.atheism	david coresh god one the morning shows think was the today show david koresh lawyer was interviewed during that interview flipped through some letters that david koresh wrote one letters was written hebrew near the bottom the page koresh adonai did anyone else see that what could this mean him david writing this
alt.atheism	smullyanism for the day article tpi pepper east sun com geoff east sun com geoff arnold sun bos coast near the top writes this raymond smullyan quote too big for sig but deserves posting imho big for sig way keith home the billdboard sig files ryan private note jennifer fakult this post may contain one more the following sarcasm cycnicism irony humor please aware this possibility and not allow yourself confused and thrown for loop doubt assume all the above the owners this account not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability recognize any the above read your own risk jennifer
alt.atheism	christian morality article apr nott kax nott kevin anthoney writes article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com writes the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you there difference between believing the existence entity and loving that entity god could show directly that exists and still have free choice about whether love him not why doesn kevin anthoney kax nott don believe anything you read sig files kevin makes good point here and when that theists miss all too often that the belief diety not necessarily coupled with agreement love that diety really they have yet another bit convincing just beyond belief guess the standard argumet goes something like well once you believe god you know god love and you will choose love him wasnt widely accepted and asserted laughable best regards adam adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws understand one another fear beyond your comprehension gandalf
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com dan schaertel writes article ousrvr oulu kempmp phoenix oulu petri pihko writes dan schaertel dps nasa kodak com wrote love god just much she loves she wants seduce she know what but she did you would probably consider rape probably because rape simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic our ability reason just spec creation yet some think the ultimate you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now your argument the type you know once you try yet there are many atheists who have sincerely tried and believed for many years but were eventually honest enough admit that they had lived virtual reality obviously there are many christians who have tried and believe nothing may work for some but not for others doesn give any insight into overall god overall truth religion would seem dependent solely the individual well individually created and since christians have failed show how there way life any better than ours not see why the attempt try necessary even particularly attractive learn you must accept that which you don know what does this mean learn you must accept that you don know something right but learn you must accept something don know why this not the way prefer learn unwise merely swallow everything you read suppose write book telling how the great invisible pink unicorn has helped daily problems would you accept this since you can know whether true not one asks you swallow everything fact jesus warns against but let ask you question you beleive what you learn history class for that matter anything school mean just what other people have told you and you don want swallow what others say right well will nerver know for sure were told the truth not but the very least there bit more evidence pointing the fact that say there was military conflict vietnam years ago then there supernatural diety who wants live certain way the fact that jesus warned against means nothing warn against too big deal the life death and resurection christ documented historical fact this not true the first two choices here life and death are scantily documented and the last one total malarky unless one uses the bible and that totally circular perhaps better use the imagination one ignorance someone else will address this sure and refer you plenty documentation much anything else you learn how you choose what believe and what not could argue that george washington myth never lived because don have any proof except what told however all the major events the life jesus christ were fortold hundreds years before him neat trick how this there nothing more disgusting than christian attempts manipulate interpret the old testament being filled with signs for the coming christ every little reference stick bit wood autmoatically interpreted the cross what miscarriage philology there way get into sceptical heart you can not say you have given sincere effort with the attitude you seem have you must trust not just church and participate activities were you ever willing die for what you believed well since have skeptical hearts thank goodness there way get into here have the irreconcilable difference christians glorify exactly what tend despise snub trust belief faith without knowledge lucky one day and happen thinking god the same time enkephalins then may associate this sign god will feel right and will trust without knowing maybe religosity does not seem anything that conclusively arrived but rather seems more sudden affliction believe many were willing die for what believed many were not the question suchg attitude reflective correct healthy morality would seem not the same thing could reflect fanaticism for example and any case expression simple selfishness adam adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws understand one another fear beyond your comprehension gandalf
alt.atheism	from soc religion christian found this little gem don know anyone has any interest comments everyone commited christian that battling with problem know that romans talks about how are saved our faith not our deeds yet hebrews and james say that faith without deeds useless saying you fools you still think that just believing enough now someone fully believing but there life totally lead themselves and not god according romans that person still saved there faith but then there the bit which says that god preferes someone who cold him doesn know him condemned lukewarm christian someone who knows and believes god but doesn make any attempt live the bible now the opinion that you saved through faith alone not what you taught romans but how can square mind the teachings james conjunction with the lukewarm christian being spat out can anyone help this really bothers christ will adam adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws understand one another fear beyond your comprehension gandalf
alt.atheism	college atheists article apr nuscc nus cmtan iss nus tan chade meng dan writes andrew cmu edu nanci ann miller writes nyeda cnsvax uwec edu david nye writes read article about poll done students the ivy league schools which was reported that third the students indentified themselves atheists this lot higher than among the general population wonder what the reasons for this discrepancy are because they are more intelligent younger this the wave the future what the figure for the general population the last heard americans believe reincarnation can somebody quote stat don have stat but unfortunately did read generally that both smoking and belief the supernatural occultish garbage the rise here would guess that probably has something with the ease which ideas and thoughts are communicated college campus world where theists are forced contend with and listen atheists and theists other religions some are bound have change their beliefs over four years there nowhere run funny country works the other way round univ life stressful for most people remember asian population xtians like prey these people there nowhere run from them this very interesting thing the principle sort the same though all philosophical ideas are generally tried out and tested mostly during college years whether the idea christian atheist doesn always matter but like say because atheists are more intelligent the unenlightened one tan chade meng the wise man tells his wife that understands her singapore cmtan iss nus the fool tries prove regards adam adam john cooper verily often have laughed the weaklings who thought themselves good simply because acooper macalstr edu they had claws understand one another fear beyond your comprehension gandalf
alt.atheism	some thoughts christian books think took this liar lunatic the real thing the last time was the time before anyway let somebody else have turn can debate with straight face perhaps for something completely different could just ridicule him gather all the posts from the last two times did this and email them him aside can you believe that somebody actually got book published about this must have been vanity press would recomend anyone out there visit your local christian bookstore and become aware the stuff they sell quite interesting most the stuff far from intelectual about the level chick pamphelets common fundie bookstore should have least one section about how you should hate wiccans pagans catholics mormons rock musicians and anyone else who not fanatical them hate for the love god even more interesting watching the people who frequent such places very scary people they hear voices from god telling them whatever they want hear they were not christians most them would locked away maybe this why federal money was reduced mental institutions the reagan administration had get their religious leaders out where would christianity jesus got eight fifteen years with time off for good behavior new york state senator james donovan capitol punishment alan beware touch these wires instant death anyone found doing this will prosecuted
alt.atheism	what means human was parsifal article apr ucla edu brad pierce pierce ucla edu writes the bedrock spiritual unreason the belief that resonant yet but theology full reason even believe based false premises etc etc ill defined terms spirit transcendental mind self consciousness ultimate reality soul elan vital etc have meaning sadly adherents spiritual movements are seldom satisfied hold there meaning consciousness mind self with this harmless illogicality they seem inexorably drawn belief what illogicality the primacy the spiritual and transcendental over the material and empirical the primacy pipe dreams jabberwocky and illusion over facts science and reason since when for instance non behaviourist psychology pipe dream surely the major purpose the science psychology understand the workings the mind all creatures all feelings all thoughts all perceptions all processes and all phenomena are manifestations the mundane matter energy space and time those who believe otherwise albeit some not supplicate god are not atheists manifestations the mundane sounds rather transcendental fact matter energy space and time are well measured but mysterious concepts does atheist really have believe your reductionism cast out not following the true faith richard wilson logica industry ltd
alt.atheism	christian morality acooper mac macalstr edu turin turambar department utter misery said dan schaertel article followed the quoting right much anything else you learn how you choose what believe and what not could argue that george washington myth never lived because don have any proof except what told however all the major events the life jesus christ were fortold hundreds years before him neat trick how this there nothing more disgusting than christian attempts manipulate interpret the old testament being filled with signs for the coming christ every little reference stick bit wood autmoatically interpreted the cross what miscarriage philology think may also worthwhile pointing out that take the appellation rabbi seriously then jesus had full grasp contemporary scripture mat jesus saith unto them did never read the scriptures mat jesus answered and said unto them err not knowing mat the scriptures nor the power god following from this would have been wonderful position fulfil prophesies and the says much mat but how then shall the scriptures fulfilled mat that thus must mat but all this was done that the scriptures the mat prophets might fulfilled then all the disciples mat forsook him and fled the books comprising the referred scripture had not been accessible then probably would different matter tony
alt.atheism	another request for darwin fish hello gang there have been some notes recently asking where obtain the darwin fish this the same question have and have not seen answer the net anyone has contact please post the net email thanks john chadwick johnchad triton unm edu
alt.atheism	another request for darwin fish darwin fish can bought from join the darwinners send receive your official evolving fish wherever you want spread the good news darwinners sunset blvd ste the greatest theory ever told jenny forty years from now nursing homes will filled with demented hackers studying their blank laptop screens nicely placed knitted quilts keep their knees warm mitchum
alt.atheism	faq sheet mike mcangus mam mouse cmhnet org wrote the way news announce newusers has article can remember which one that recommends reading newsgroup for month before posting this makes sense because you get idea who the players are and what the current discussions are about the only one who followed that advice spent month just reading too mainly because did not know much about the way atheists think even printed out the faqs and discussed with friend before started posting alt atheism deals with religious issues more appropriately lack religious beliefs which are their very nature very controversial makes sense read what being discussed and how just make sure you are not repeating something others have said better petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics the truth pihatie finou oulu physics the rule oulu kempmp the game finland phoenix oulu chemistry the game
alt.atheism	gulf war was death penalty was political atheists mark mccullough mccullou snake wisc edu wrote details built chemical plant alteer near baghdad however the plant intended use was aid the iraqi infrastructure not example selling weapon may sound nitpicking but are going refuse sell valuable parts that build the infrastructure because dual use technology contending that this case and the case the sale pesticides companies that they knew full well that was used for the production chemical weapons even that was not its officially stated purpose personally don think that letting iran conquer iraq would have been good thing for that matter neither for the reasons you state the hypocrisy and claims the did not help iraq that make angry plus the fact that the usa seems believe has the right interfere where sees fit has interest rather than duty intervene where required this demonstrated the failure the anything about east timor and the region becoming destabilised the usa might have done something approaching the right thing given reservations about the uncessary number civillian casualites but for wholly the wrong reasons and after having hand creating the situation that way would affect the later military action against iraq did not suggest would and would ridiculous assert otherwise was simply indicating the usa has previously aided iraq intel manufacturing techniques something that nature apparently data orginally from satellites although doubt that iraq would have been given the raw data concerning troop concentrations aaron turner aaron minster york
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long shamim zvonko mohamed sham arizona edu wrote bullshit the gulf massacre all ordnance used was smart the rest that was just regular dumb iron bombs and stuff have you forgotten that the pentagon definition successful patriot launch was when the missile cleared the launching tube with damage that successful interception scud was defined the patriot and scud passed each other the same area the sky and the that was the smart stuff hit again try follow here that means this smart arsenal missed used have full figures this including the tons bombs dropped and the number cluster bomblet munitions used had heard the the laser guided weapons hit which unprecedented rate success the iron weapons hit again unprecedented the following rough estimate but this means the tons bombs dropped aircraft around tons missed not sure what proportion this was dropped baghdad rather than troop concentrations iraq and kuwait much the tonnage dropped was cluster munitions were all the mrls rounds and many the artillery rounds napalm and fuel air explosives were also used remember how were told that weapons mass destruction such fae were very naughty indeed
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long mark mccullough mccullou snake wisc edu wrote this figure far below all the other figures have seen indeed accurate then how you explain the discrepancy between that figure and other figures from international organizations most figures have seen place the hit ratio close which still far higher than your does your figure say bomb missed the plane took off with and the bomb never hit the target regardless whether not the bomb was dropped such methods are used all the time lie with statistics answering the last sentence claimed that they had success rate without initially explaining until pressed that this meant that the aircraft came back having dropped their bombs somewhere regardless whether they had hit the intended target indeed anything all aaron turner
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long mark mccullough mccullou snake wisc edu wrote prove have source that says that date the civilian death count excuse mean collateral damage about have never seen any source that was claiming such figure please post the source its reliability can judged this figure would not simply deaths bombing but also death later from disease the sewer system baghdad was deliberately targeted and starvation believe but when get copy the latest research june july that this was the figure proposed the census bureau report the matter the report was suppressed and the attempted sack the author the report but failed due procedural technicality the author now permanent leave aaron turner
alt.atheism	gulf war selling arms mark mccullough mccullou snake wisc edu wrote heard about the arms sale saudi arabia now how such grave mistake sell saudi arabia weapons are you claiming that shouldn sell any weapons other countries straightforward answer please saudi arabia oppressive regime that has been recently interfering the politcs newly renunified yemen including assasinations and border incursions entirely possible that they will soon invade unluckily for yemen not popular the west they managed put aside political differences during reunification and thus the west has effectively lost one half north client state aaron turner
alt.atheism	free moral agency article darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes deleted stuff from andrew wrt which atheist myth bill andrew the myth which refer the convoluted counterfeit athiests have created make religion appear absurd counterfeit atheists hmmmm just cheap knock offs the true atheists religion demonstrates itself absurd constantly personally someone asks happy point out how this rather than approach religion including christainity rational manner and debating its claims the are stated atheists concoct outrageous parodies and then hold the religious accountable for beliefs they don have what more accurately oxymoric the term like reasonable atheist man what your pill wrt atheists you going make such contentious statements back them least read news time and time again hashed out the beliefs various religous doctrines hold try debating reasonably with someone who makes statement like more accurately oxymoric the term like reasonable atheist then take look the responses given tammy seem pretty reasonable nay even polite accusations myths flyin here good example what said above read the post again said acoording which means referring christian doctrine understand speaking for myself you know purpose posting was present basic overview christain doctrines since seemed germane saw your reference according the original article then you such excellent job spewing dogma that well the implication was pretty clear wrong this case jeez misunderstanding let more statements wrap this thing you read post with same care read the faq wouldn having this conversation you had written your post with the same care the faq has been wouldn having this discussion gems about evidence deleted yes human reason does always come back the existence god having this discussion are not jeez have point this out you this discussion not all instances human reason therefore your implication false well this interesting truth determined politically correct content granted extremely unhip wasp male and anything european contemptable but thought this kind dialogue the purpose was get the truth things but then remember the oxymoron reasonalble atheist and understand how lame can you get who said anything about the truth things read the faq very carefully please then report your findings about where says the purpose find the truth things and stop impressing your own misguided image atheists upon really pissing off bill
alt.atheism	discordian subgenius books addresses etc requested here are some addresses sources bizarre religious satire and commentary plus some bijou book reviewettes loompanics unlimited box port townsend usa publishers one the most infamous mail order book catalogue the world anarchism discordianism libertarianism cryogenics money making legal and illegal privacy and security self defense and all kinds other stuff that keeps christians awake nights the church the subgenius box dallas usa the original end times church for post human mutants high temple for scoffers mockers and blasphemers one the few board the ist saucers and escape space god jhvh stark fist removal bob dobbs god sales waiting take your money and ordain you magazines sick audio cassettes and assorted offensive cynisacreligious material periodic lists addresses pink religious cults and contact points for the world wierdo network expect slow response mail only conspiracies are well organized you will eventually get what you pay for you give them some slack counter productions box london source obscure books wide ranging selection surrealism anarchism subgenius discordianism robert anton wilson lovecraftian horror cyberpunk forteana political and social commentary wilhelm reich orgone tech obscure rock music and send sae and maybe bribe they need your money and ask for catalogue tell them mathew sent you ordered from these folks three four times now and they about fast and efficient you can expect from this sort operation forbidden planet various sites the particular along london new oxford street just down the road from tottenham court road tube station mass market oddness subgenius robert anton wilson loompanics and course huge quantities not terribly good selection but they the high street reviewette loompanics greatest hits isbn loompanics selection articles picked from the books loompanics catalogue subjects include christian dispensationalism how right wing christians encouraged the cold war satanic child abuse myths religion and censorship plus lots anarchist and libertarian stuff situationism computers and privacy and guaranteed contain least one article that offend you like for example the interview with bradley smith the holocaust revisionist good sampling stuff coffee table book course whether you want leave this sort stuff lying around your coffee table another matter quote the fundamentalists leap and down apoplectic rage and joy their worst fantasies are vindicated and therefore they like think their entire theology and socio political agenda too meanwhile teen age misanthropes and social misfits murder their enemies classmates families friends even complete strangers all because they read one anton lavey cooks listened one too many records the born agains are ready burn again and not just books this time reviewette the book the subgenius dobbs the subgenius foundation isbn simon schuster described rolling stone sick masterpiece for those who can still laugh the fact that nothing funny anymore the official bible the subgenius church containing the sacred teachings bob dobbs instant answers everything causes catalytic brain cell loss seconds the secret total slack how relax the safety your delusions and pull the wool over your own eyes nuclear doom and other things laugh quote has been known answer questions concerning universal truths with screams with suggestive silence peeing down his pants leg his most famous sermon was cosmic simplicity bob standing the stage with his hands his pockets smoking looking around and saying nothing heated arguments still rage among the monks often erupting into fatal duels towhether the master consulted his wristwatch during this divine period grace reviewette high weirdness mail rev ivan stang isbn simon schuster encyclopedia wierd organizations you can contact mail space jesuses christian christian ufo contactees new age saps creationists flat earthers white supremacist churches plus yawn csicop sceptical enquirer and stuff like that not just list addresses though each kook group ruthlessly mocked and ridiculed with sarcastic glee you like alt atheism flame wars this the book for you made laugh until stomach ached revised edition due some time the next year two sample entry entertaining demons unawares southwest radio church box oklahoma city your watchman the wall another flagellating genuflecting fundamentalist outfit their booklet entertaining demons unawares exposes the star wars dungeons dragons saturday morning cartoon satanic connection horrifying detail left out smurfs though especially liked the bit about wonder woman antichrist origins keep mind that once you send for anything from these people you their mailing list for life reviewette the abolition work bob black isbn loompanics selection bob black painfully witty and intelligent anarchist tracts collected into book form were this good insufferable probably the only thought provoking political book that fun read quote babble about the wages sin serves cover the sin wages want rights not rites sex not sects only eros and eris belong our pantheon surely the nazarene necrophile has had his revenge now remember pain just god way hurting you reviewette principia discordia malaclypse the younger isbn loompanics the infamous discordian bible reprinted its entirety and then some yes you could ftp the online copy but this one has all the pictures explains absolutely everything including the law fives how start discordian cabal and instructions for preaching discordianism christians quote discordian required during his early illumination off alone partake joyously hot dog friday this devotive caremony remonstrate against the popular paganisms the day catholic christendom meat friday judaism meat pork hindic peoples meat beef buddhists meat animal and discordians hot dog buns reviewette natural law don put rubber your willy robert anton wilson isbn loompanics the author the illuminatus trilogy rails against natural law natural morality objective reality and other pervasive myths witty and thought provoking work from someone who actually seems know argument from hole the ground quote since theological propositions are scientifically meaningless those pragmatic disposition simply won buy such dubious merchandise maybe remotely there might something such promotions there might something the talking dogs and the stocks arabian tapioca mines that fields once sold his comedies but suspect that recognize con game operation least want hear the dog talk see the tapioca ore before buy into such deals all the books mentioned above should available from counter productions the directly from the subgenius foundation loompanics unlimited mathew what you mean anyway dreamed laid toaster daddy caught the act can you take devo
alt.atheism	free moral agency article voinnr lynx unm edu cfaehl vesta unm edu chris faehl writes the myth which refer the convoluted counterfeit athiests have created make religion appear absurd counterfeit atheists hmmmm just cheap knock offs the true atheists they must theists disguise any event don need create religious parodies just look some actual religions which are absurd mand now mdeep thoughts mby jack handey mif you parachuting and your parachute doesn open and your friends are all watching you fall think funny gag would pretend you were swimming
alt.atheism	atheism survey doing research atheism part which involves field research here the net the following survey directed towards all readers this group intended get data about the basis atheistic belief would seriously appreciate each and every one you would fill out and mail back mtabbott unix amherst edu first all tried structure questions that can answered variety ways with varying amounts detail possible give succinct answers most everything but there enough here keep most you typing for hours sure much detail you want give mean great but also important for have broad base individuals possible even minimal responses are far better than nothing short survey you just answer the questions without elaboration secondly hope some the questions don come off obnoxious know that phrases like what would convince you the existence god imply that seminary student intent proving you all ignorant godless heathens fact not too sure about the existence higher power myself use god question locution rather than ideology easier than just repeating deity higher power every time also tend use lot anthropological buzzwords like belief system although know some you might contend that you don have any beliefs but are skeptical towards everything understand but you know what mean think such buzzwords abbreviations for the rather unweildy phrases required get the precise idea across lastly thanks please fill out much you can much detail you can and send them research and thank you where would you place your beliefs the spectrum theism agnosticism weak atheism strong atheism feel free elaborate your specific beliefs what any religious tradition were you raised did you ever believe the existence god several the following questions presume that the answer this yes you always been atheist least never theist you may have modify the question answer somewhat how serious was your your family involvement how and when did you start doubt the tenets you were raised believe how and when did your final break with your beliefs any occur realize that this often more ongoing process than event per whatever the case just describe whatever detail you wish what contact with other atheists have you had before and after and during your conversion atheism certainly your involvement with alt atheism counts how have net discussions affected your beliefs what extent you think other atheists have influenced you your beliefs did you come your beliefs through discussion through independent means some combination the two other means are you convinced that your beliefs were acquired through wholly rational means proofs the non existence god etc was perhaps least part through other means alienation from mainstream religion etc what extent you feel you understand the universe through your beliefs what phenomena the universe and human existence anything from physical phenomena the problem the existence evil human affairs you feel are adequately dealt with your beliefs and where are they lacking explanatory method what would take for you question change your beliefs what would convince you the existence god what would convince you the plausibility god existence and forth how dynamic are your beliefs are they constantly changing have they stayed more less the same for some time are you involved career education science what extent you think science has influenced your beliefs issac asimov claimed that science was the new secular religion and that scientists are very real sense the new priesthood you see the pursuit science having quasi religious base even religious element this survey intended get data from broad range individuals but also help narrow down the field small group people whose ideas and histories could very useful would you willing have the basis this survey write you find out more about you and your beliefs not fine your filling out the survey alone great thanks again feel free contact you have any questions about what doing with this data you have anything say addition what asked about above mark abbott mtabbott unix amherst
alt.atheism	americans and evolution now with free ockham razor inside sorry about the delay responding due conference paper deadline panic article qsnqqinn senator bedfellow mit edu bobs thnext mit edu robert singleton writes article apr dcs warwick simon dcs warwick simon clippingdale writes alarming amounts agreement deleted made statement about ockums razor from experiences physics thanks for info baysian statistics very interesting and didn know before follow your proof but have one questions have two hypotheses and the latter more complicated which definition means that complicated isn fact where comes from more the other way around from where the complement and axiom anything sense necessarily more complicated than for any and may splitting hairs but what trying say that irrespective subjective impressions how complicated something holds with equality and only you point out very simple matter show and thus preferd now say that consistent with the data say can you elaborate some this well means that likely observed operative operative this implies that observing does not provide any useful information which might allow discriminate between the respective possibilities that and are operative the difference reduces the difference between the unknown and unhelpful prior probabilities and and where and are equally consistent with the data that observing doesn give any pointers which operative the particular case where and however know that their prior probabilities are ordered although don know the actual values and this which allows deploy the razor throw out any such also the real world isn clear cut and dry seems can always determine whether the equality true that certainly true but the particular point here was whether not divine component actually underlies the prevalence religion addition the memetic transmission component which even the religious implicitly acknowledge operative when they talk spreading the word now seems said that the observed variance religious belief well accounted for the memetic transmission model but rather less well one proposes divine component addition since would expect the latter conspire against wide variance and even mutual exclusion among beliefs thus personal feeling that isn even equal this case but smaller memetic transmission divine component the variance among beliefs but happily acknowledge that this subjective impression btw beef with your baysian argument was not mathematical one checked most your work and didn find error and you seem very careful there probably isn math mistake think the mistake philosophical but just make sure understand you can please rephrase non technical terms think this reasonable request always try look for ways explaining physics non physicist not baysian statistician nor any type statistician this would very helpful not that statistician such either but the idea that both theism and atheism are compatible with all the read observations date however theism the type with which concerned also suggests that for instance prayer may answered people may miraculously healed both are principle amenable statistical verification and that god may generally intervene measurable ways this means that these regions the space possible observations which loosely termed appearances god have some nonzero probability under the theistic hypothesis and zero under the atheistic since there only much probability available for each hypothesis scatter around over the observation space the probability which theism expends making appearances god possible must come from somewhere else other possible observations all else being equal this means that observation which isn appearance god must have slightly higher probability under atheism than under theism the bayesian stuff implies that such observations must cause running estimate for the probability the atheistic hypothesis increase with corresponding decrease running estimate for the probability the theistic hypothesis sorry that still bit jargonesque but rather difficult put any other way since does depend intimately the properties conditional probability densities and particularly that the total area under them always unity analogy may may not helpful say that hypothesis the coin fair and that the coin unfair two headed used and avoid confusion with heads and tails then total total the observations are string heads with tails this compatible with both fair coin and two headed coin however the probability expended making possible the appearance tails even though they don actually appear must come from somewhere else since the total must unity and comes this case from the probability the appearance heads say our running estimates time are and the observation time another head the estimates are modified according and now don know the actual prior probability head but the multiplier for half that for this true every time the coin tossed and head observed thus whatever the initial values the estimates after heads have and and since any time you can show that and thus hence the estimate for the fair coin hypothesis must decrease each trial and that for the two headed coin hypothesis must increase even though both hypotheses are compatible with string heads the loose analogy between unfair coin and atheism and between fair coin and theism with observations consistent with both tail which would falsify unfair coin analogous appearance god which would falsify atheism not claiming that the analogy extends the numerical values the various probabilities just that the principle the same constant observation evidence for gods evidence for them all possible under the respective theisms constantly increases the notional estimated probability that they don exist important draw distinction between theism that could supported not supported evidence and theism that can given theism for which evidence principle not possible doesn make sense say lack evidence supports the contrary view quite but this type theism what might call the the terms our ockham razor discussion and bin those grounds depends upon your conception this god conception like zeus who happened come down earth play quite frequently then agree with you lack evidence for this conception god evidence that does not exist but your conception god one that does not make falsifiable predictions see below falsifiable predictions then disagree lack evidence does not support disbelief the hypotheses don have falsifiable and indeed model the theism isn falsifiable used the phrase should obverse given any specific theism does not make the prediction that why used the word should theism makes predictions about any specific event can only say believe that god did such and such after such and such happens believe god will such and such but for any given can never priori say can not even say this for the set all some this what don like about your use probability also have way assigning these probabilities hold science positivistic criteria someone cannot tell how measure even principle then probability not applicable hypothesis such the case when theistic and atheistic for example what how measure you don have don need the above analogy know any prior probabilities deduce that the updating multiplier for the fair coin hypothesis less than unity and that the corresponding multiplier for the two headed coin hypothesis greater than unity you don need know the initial values the running estimates either clear that after large number observations fair coin approaches zero and two headed coin approaches unity all you need know whether larger than for observed and this follows from the assumptions that there are certain events rendered possible not necessary under which are not possible under and all else equal baysian statistics relies upon series observations but what the hypothesis isn amenable observation and even for statements that are amenable observation some observations are not relevant sequence observations must chosen with care curious know what types observations you have mind concerning theism and atheism any observations you like really doesn matter nor affect the reasoning provided that there are some possible observations which would count appearances god examples this might demonstration the efficacy prayer the veracity revelation but any statement about for general still counts prediction the theism question says that prayer may answered that miracles may happen see interpretation quoted again above what god exists means then this prediction for such what distinguishes from the atheist hypothesis which predicts that this stuff does not happen for such theism does not make the claim that for such should say that theism doesn maybe was too quick say had common language you said that the existence god you mean the notion that the deity described the bible and christians does interact with the universe claimed those agents agreed with this however must careful here believe this not making any claims maybe should have changed does can there important shift emphasis but any way since only have belief cannot conclude for such downgrade does interact may interact which would actually better since does interact implies falsifiability which both agree misplaced don think theism makes predictions maybe not understanding what you mean prediction could you explain what you mean this word explain but bear mind that this isn central all require theism that not make the prediction appearances god will never happen does atheism before somebody points out that quantum mechanics doesn make this prediction either the difference that and atheism not form partition predictions include such statements prayer efficacious implying you the stats you will find that prayer efficacious prayer not efficacious verily say unto you this generation shall not pass till all these things fulfilled don think have any problems misunderstanding here persistent observation this stuff not happening consistent with though may more consistent with explained the bayesian stats post even god exists unfalsifiable that problem for argument other than that you have let the number observations infinity falsify asymptotically btw not consider argument that requires infinite number observations valid rather that part the argument not valid existing humans can never make infinite number measurments and any conclusion that reilies this don accept valid that fine don claim that theism false merely that the finite number observations available far suggest that and that continue observe the suggestion looks better and better renormalization stuff deleted the bayesian stats post assumed that theism was indeed unfalsifiable finite number observations here the relevant quote the important assumption that there are some observations which are compatible with the theist hypothesis and not with the atheist hypothesis and thus would falsify atheism these are what called appearances god but this need not taken too literally any observation which requires for its explanation that one more gods exist will count all other observations are assumed compatible with both hypotheses this leaves theism unfalsifiable and atheism falsifiable single observation only such appearances god here problem with this for something falsifiable must make the prediction that should not seen seen then the hypothesis has been falsified now atheism word oposition something theism theism aserts belief and atheism aserts disbelief there are certain atheisms that are certainly falsifiable just there are certain theisms that are falsifable theism asserts the world only years old and that god does not decieve then this has been falsified however the atheism that oposition unfalsifiable theism also unfalsifiable could wrong this statment contd think you are appearance god sufficient falsify atheism whereas general the corresponding theism unfalsifiable think more about until then here general question suppse were unfalsifiable not also unfalsifiable way counterexample let the coin fair more accurately that not makes sense the two sides the coin are different this unfalsifiable tossing the coin even string heads consistent with fair coin and you have infinite number tosses falsify the limit its converse falsifiable and falsified when least one head and least one tail have appeared this partly what wrong with you baysian argument which requires observations made there are simply such observations that have truth value relation the statement god exists now use your symmetry argument can understand why someone would say since the statement god does not exist makes predictions will choose not believe but none the less this would founded type faith you don like the word faith insert belief for which there falsifiable evidence instead assume you meant god exists there the highlight but our agreed definition exists the statement makes predictions said above although isn falsifiable finite number observations actually mean god does not exist makes predictions oops sorry mea culpa the truth this statment actually depends upon which god you are refering but can think some conceptions god for which true but once again open the posibility that could wrong give some examples predictions the statment god does not exist here one that can think true then there would healing miricles but this can principle never determined one way the other there are cases which people seem recover and are healed without the help doctor and for known reason these situations fact happen they are consistent with theistic hypothesis but way support such hypothesis agree here they are not inconsistent with atheistic hypothesis can think one prediction from god does not exist that isn this type but might missing something the rapture will not happen october said rapture would have falsified atheism satisfaction had happened although its failure happen does not course falsify any theisms other than those which specifically predicted phenomenon which requires the existence one more gods for its explanation will ever observed that about sums the whole thing bob singleton bobs thnext mit edu cheers simon simon clippingdale simon dcs warwick department computer science tel university warwick fax coventry
alt.atheism	some thoughts healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes tammy see maddi trimmed healy well you going have practice but you getting the hang soon going have give you new nickname try these for size tammy lucky seven healy tammy pass the falafel healy tammy healy tammy learning doing healy maddi never useful post hausmann maddi hausmann madhaus netcom com centigram communications corp san jose california kids please don try this home remember post professionally
alt.atheism	free moral agency article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes mand now mdeep thoughts mby jack handey mif you parachuting and your parachute doesn open and your friends are all watching you fall think funny gag would pretend you were swimming you fall opens too gravity not just good idea the law dean kaflowitz
alt.atheism	religion cause was islamic authority over women scott sauyet ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu wrote the same works for the horrors history claim that christianity had little with the crusades the inquisition deny the awesome power that comes from faith absolute what seems you are doing twisting the reasonable statement that religion was never the solitary cause any evil into the unreasonable statement that religion has had evil impacts history that absurd scott until this paragraph would willingly amend earlier statements since your point are well made and generally accurate this last part though slips into hyperbole since discussed objections such generalizations before really don feel need again you haven seen those posts ask maddi she saves everything write bill
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article idi fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes now you are saying that islamic bank something other than bcci would you care explain why was that when said hope islamic bank something other than bcci you called childish propagandist yes sure because the only obvious reason anyone would make the jump from bcci islamic bank associating islamic banking with muslim ownership but this case said hoped that bcci was not islamic bank and the only reason one would generalize from given islamic bank all islamic banks through stereotype one bad therefore all are bad but this case said hoped that bcci was not islamic bank next think you know there bosnia tap but this case said hoped that bcci was not islamic bank jon
alt.atheism	free moral agency article dba dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes deletion conner bobby mozumder myth performing artist real moslem crackpot provocateur you know everything and read all minds why don you tell side note isn telling that one cannot say for sure bobby mozunder firm believer provocateur what does that say about religious beliefs think that insightful comment especially when the same time have people like bill projector conner complaining that are posting parodies jon
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior article news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes ioh fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article qgm news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes this doesn seem right want kill you can because that what decide sounds though you are confused between what want and what think morally right jon what you mean would your idea still apply said think kill you because that what decided what mean what said what want does not automatically translate into what think right that does not translate that way for you reply that think kill you because that what decided then what that means that for you what want does translate into what think right just doesn translate that way for jon
alt.atheism	societal basis for morality article apr cnsvax uwec edu nyeda cnsvax uwec edu david nye writes you asked look over here but was way back anyway reply cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb morals come from what societally accepted why follow that what right have expect others follow our notion societally mandated morality pardon the extremism but couldn murder your brother and say that was exercising rights saw them was doing what felt good didn want anyone forcing their morality don follow your morality believe that morality subjective each person entitled his own moral attitudes mine are not priori more correct than someone elses this does not mean however that must judge another the basis his rather than moral standards while entitled believe what his own moral sense tells him the rest society entitled pass laws spelling out punishments for behavior that offensive the majority why your last statement why which authority most criminals not see their behavior moral the may realize that immoral and not care they are thus not following their own moral system but being immoral for someone lay claim alternative moral system must sincere his belief and must internally consistent why your last statement why are these things necessary and believe belief terrorism can both sincere and frighteningly consistent some sociopaths lack innate moral sense and thus may incapable behaving morally while someone like hitler may have believed that his actions were moral may judge him immoral our standards holding that morality subjective does not mean that must excuse the murderer trouble this would sound just fine coming from someone like hitler too not mean any comparison offence david try substituting the social minority your choice for sociopath hitler and murderer logical difference someone like you someone like hitler zero sum frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	faith and dogma reply tgk toronto edu todd kelley light what happened waco need get something chest faith and dogma are dangerous agreed philosopher cannot christian because philosopher can change his mind whereas christian cannot due the nature faith and dogma present any religion hard for understand but quite few professional scientists and philosophers are theists sure religion has many good qualities encourages benevolence and philanthropy but also intolerance and superstition not sure that the balance not detrimental wouldn nice everyone were secular humanist sure would david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes not position say since know nothing about the situation that does not estimation qualify having head ass bob never accused you having your head your ass takes quite some time dealing with someone before accusing them having their head their ass was accusing the original poster benedikt believe being impaired after insult gregg resorts lies article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes could you maybe flesh out just bit did miss the full grandeur content virtue blinding atheism you may having difficulty seeing the light because you have your head your ass suggest making sure this not the case before posting again that was the original answer while does not say that has the head necessarily its ass would meaningless and pointless was not insinuated benedikt
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality article fpv horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes deletion point morals are essence personal opinions usually ideally well founded motivated such but nonetheless personal the fact that real large lot people agree some moral question sometimes even for the same reason does not make morals objective makes humans somewhat alike their opinions that moral question which can good for the evolution social species and real large lot nice phrase people agree that there football desk supposed see logical difference between the two perhaps you can explain the difference since you seem see clearly rest deleted that fallacy and not the first time pointed out for one you have never given set morals people agree upon unlike football further you conveniently ignore here that there are many who would not agree tghe morality something the analogy does not hold one can expect sufficiently many people agree its being football while you have give the evidence that only vanishing number disagrees with set morals you have give further the above evidence not proof proof would evolve out testing your theory absolute morals against competing theories the above one the arguments you reiterate while you never answer the objections evidence that you are preacher benedikt
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics article jcinnt lynx unm edu cfaehl vesta unm edu chris faehl writes correction hard atheism faith yes can faith like weak atheism had that before benedikt
alt.atheism	theism and fanatism was islamic genocide article horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes theism strongly correlated with irrational belief absolutes irrational belief absolutes strongly correlated with fanatism deletion theism correlated with fanaticism have neither said that all fanatism caused theism nor that all theism leads fanatism the point theism increases the chance becoming fanatic one could course argue that would fanatics tend towards theism for example but just have loook the times history when theism was the dominant ideology invalidate that conclusion that that the basic mechanism behind imo the influence stalin for that matter ayn rand invalidates your assumption that theism the factor considered bogus just said that theism not the only factor for fanatism the point that theism factor gullibility blind obedience authority lack scepticism and are all more reliable indicators and the really dangerous people the sources fanaticism are often none these things they are cynical manipulators the gullible who know precisely what they are doing that claim you have support please note that especially the field theism the leaders believe what they say now some brands theism and more precisely some theists tend fanaticism grant you tar all theists with this brush bigotry not reasoned argument and reads like warm for censorship and restriction religious freedom ever read animal farm that straw man and usually discussions with you one has repeat read what have written above not every theism leads fanatism and not all fanatism caused theism the point there correlation and comes from innate features theism gullibility the way one them and say that going forbid religion another your straw men interesting that you have nothing better offer define irrational belief rational believe that reason always useful irrational belief belief that not based upon reason the latter has been discussed for long time with charley wingate one point that the beliefs violate reason often and another that process that does not lend itself rational analysis does not contain reliable information well there glaring paradox here argument that reason useful based reason would circular and argument not based reason would irrational which that bogus self reference not circular and since the evaluation usefulness possible within rational systems allowed your argument silly proving mathematical statements needs mathematics and mathematics are therfore circular the first part the second statement contains information because you don say what the beliefs are the beliefs are strong theism and strong atheism then your statement not general true the second part your sentence patently false counterexample axiomatic datum does not lend itself rational analysis but assumed contain reliable information regardless what process used obtain been speaking religious systems with contradictory definitions god here axiomatic datum lends itself rational analysis what you say here often refuted fallacy have look the discussion the axiom choice and further one can evaluate axioms larger systems out which they are usually derived exist derived you want that way further one can test the consistency and set axioms what you are trying say compared the evidence theists have for their claims the strength their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational can agree with this until you are specific which theism say that all theism necessarily antirational requires proof which suspect you not have using the traditonal definition gods personal supernatural entities with objective effects this world usually connected morals and the way the world works the affinity fanatism easily seen has true because believe nothing more than work hypothesis however the beliefs say they are more than work hypothesis don understand this can you formalise your argument person believes system becuase sounds nice that does not make true best work hypothesis however the content that true and that more than work hypothesis testing evaluating evidence for against therefore dismissed because already believed says wrong waste time not possible depending the further contents amalekites idolaters protestants are killed this can have interesting effects answer the question what the absolute set morals people agree like they would agree football being football benedikt
alt.atheism	islamic authority over women article racm darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes can recall anyone claiming that god makes anyone act particlar way think that you attempting manufacture contradiction world creator god does the moment creates the world and sayi that you can recall anyone even below your usual standard arguing argument based quite usual theistic assumptions namely god perfect god all knowing god sets the rules the rules don work for whatever reason because its omniscience the god has known advance deletion say that something defined contadictorily cannot exist really asking too much you would have existence depend grammar all you can really say that something poorly defined but that itself insufficient decide anything other than confusion course not question grammar question modelling has been discussed the wonderful time when you were not posting this group when contradictorily defined does not point instance reality unless there more information the definition that allows find somehow however when the contradictory attribute said essential has not got that attribute not the looking for can conclude that does not exist your point that there are better reasons for the phenomenon belief than the object belief may lead rat nest unnecessary complexity think know what you implying but like see your version this better alternative just the same that quite like predict coins falling predicted happened heads tails tails tails heads tails heads tails take and dismiss the rest because the unnecessary complexity the other evidence causes for easy understand explanation why humans believe gods read manwatching desmond morris benedikt
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long jbrown batman bmd trw com writes don regret the fact that sometimes military decisions have made which affect the lives innocent people but regret the circumstances which make those decisions necessary and regret the suffering caused those decisions afraid going have kill you don worry though loving christian guarantee that will regret the fact that have kill you although won regret the actual killing hadn intervened allowing hussein keep kuwait then would have been appeasement right but did you ever hear anyone advocate such course action are you just setting strawman not setting strawman all you want argue against the war then the only logical alternative was allow hussein keep kuwait false dichotomy diplomatic alternatives including sanctions were ineffective that because they weren even attempted but what about those who didn support hitler dreams conquest not they democratically voted for all his policies the nsdap got the elections and that was the last chance the german people got vote the matter they suffered along with the rest why does this bother you much you want know why bothers that thousands innocent people were maimed killed bombing the end when was far from clear that such bombing was necessary the world full evil and circumstances are not perfect many innocents suffer due the wrongful actions others regretable but that the way and why that way who set things that way this was happening before the gulf war why didn send the bombers east timor why aren sending the bombers now probably because not the saviors the world can police each and every country that decides self destruct invade another just the ones that have oil the ones that look like they might make success communism nor are strategic position get relief tibet east timor some other places don see that getting forces east timor any harder than getting them iraq tibetan people are rounded tortured and executed amnesty international recently reported that torture still widespread china why aren stopping them fact why are actively sucking them trading freely with them tell how could stop them and support for one not agree with the present policy sucking them you put agree that deplorable fine write your congressman and president clinton china status most favoured nation comes for renewal june point out that the shouldn offering favourable trading terms such despicable regime doubt anything will happen clinton keener trade sanctions against europe unbelievable comments about the rodney king case deleted the media not totally monolithic even though there prevailing liberal bias programs such the macneil lehrer news hour try give balanced and fair reporting the news there are even conservative sources out there you know where look hurrah for rush any idea how many kill files you just ended atheist arguing against killing innocent people you supposed christian are arguing that kill innocent people long you get some guilty ones well hardly didn say that good thing kill innocent people the end just unfortunately don live perfect world and there are perfect solutions one going resist tyranny then innocent people both sides are going suffer and die didn say unfortunate but sometimes necessary the ends justify the means you having criticised moral relativism the past are now arguing that position judge the morality allied actions the end the war you certainly are not such position you are moral relativist the same tired old misunderstanding moral relativism means that there objective standard morality doesn mean you can judge other people morals christ bike how many times have tried hammer that into your head where your christian love where your absolute morality how quick you are discard them when suits you ivan stang would say jesus would puke one day will stand before jesus and give account every word and action even this discourse this forum understand the full ramifications that and prepared don believe that you can make the same claim obviously not atheist don think you get with jesus though was long haired lunatic peace nik was not and btw the reason brought the blanket bombing germany was because you were bemoaning the iraqi civilian casualties being deplorable yet blanket bombing was instituted because bombing wasn accurate enough hit industrial military targets decisive way any other method that time but the gulf war precision bombing was the norm the point was why make big stink about the relatively few civilian casualties that resulted spite precision bombing when many more civilians proportionately and quantitatively died under the blanket bombing right unfortunately for you turned out that opinions the matter were entirely consistent that condemned the bombing dresden too think you being bit glib with your explanation the blanket bombing policy too you make sound though were aiming for military targets and could only get them destroying civilian buildings next door understand that not the case aimed deliberately civilian targets order cause massive damage and inspire terror amongst the german people civilians suffer but less civilians suffered this war than any other iany other history come with wars like the falklands fresh people minds that sort propaganda isn going fool anyone the stories hundreds thousands iraqi civilian dead just plain bunk yes bunk the lost servicemen over four years and the majority them were directly involved fighting yes and what about the millions casualties the russians suffered hardly surprising the didn lose many men given that you turned late mathew
alt.atheism	gulf war selling arms jbrown batman bmd trw com writes mathew agree this seems the crux your whole position isn that the shouldn have supported hussein and sold him arms fight iran agree and agree ruthlessly hunting down those who did but did sell arms hussein and done deal now invades kuwait just sit back and say well sold him all those arms suppose just wants use them now too bad for kuwait unfortunately sitting back and letting things not the way correct former mistake destroying hussein military potential did was the right move but agree with your statement reagan and bush made grave error judgment sell arms hussein but still happening that the entire point only last month john major hailed great victory that had personally secured sale arms saudi arabia the same month sold jet fighters the same indonesian government that busy killing the east timorese all very well say oops made boo boo better clean the mistake but the and keep making the same mistake they often that can believe not deliberate this suspicion reinforced the fact that the mistake extremely profitable one for decrepit economy reliant arms sales really not the gulf war you abhor much was the and the west shortsightedness selling arms hussein which ultimately made the war inevitable right thought both were terrible mathew
alt.atheism	gulf war was death penalty was political atheists mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes looked back this and asked some questions various people and got the following information which had claimed and you pooh poohed the has not sold iraq any arms what about the land mines which have already been mentioned other countries like kuwait information hard prove you are claiming that the sold information prove information hard prove almost certainly the did sell information then that fact classified and you can prove very neat dismiss everything say unless can prove beyond shadow doubt something which you yourself admit can never prove your satisfaction thanks stick squaring circles mathew
alt.atheism	gulf war and peace niks jbrown batman bmd trw com writes the problem with most peace niks they consider those who are not like them bad and unconscionable would not have any argument problem with peace nik they held their ideals and stayed out all conflicts issues especially those dealing with the national defense but they are not willing allow legitimately hold different point view they militate and many times resort violence all the name peace yawn another right wing wasp imagining oppressed minority perhaps camille paglia right after all would not have any argument problem with peace nik they stayed out all conflicts issues bet you wouldn you love but what makes you think that sitting back saying nothing about defense issues and letting people like you make all the decisions anything with their ideals mathew
alt.atheism	strong weak atheism acooper mac macalstr edu turin turambar department utter misery writes did that faq ever got modified define strong atheists not those who assert the nonexistence god but those who assert that they believe the nonexistence god word yes mathew
alt.atheism	who has read rushdie the satanic verses perry dsinc com jim perry writes anyway since seem the only one following this particular line discussion wonder how many the rest the readership have read this book what are your thoughts bought copy the satanic verses when there was talk the british government banning there nothing interests book more than making illegal however still sitting shelf unread perhaps get round soon still got pile lem bulgakov and zamyatin through don find nearly enough time read fact there are far more interesting things than can ever find time for how anyone ever manages bored beyond didn have sleep maybe could manage mathew atheism anti virus software for the mind
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article apr bnr rashid writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger wrote have already made the clear claim that khomeini advocates views which are contradition with the qur and have given arguments for this this something that can checked anyone sufficiently interested khomeini being dead really can respond but another poster who supports khomeini has responded with what clearly obfuscationist sophistry this should quite clear atheists they are less susceptible religionist modes obfuscationism don mind saying this but the best example obfuscation condemn without having even your most basic facts straight you want some examples back and look your previous posts where you manage get your facts wrong about the fatwa and khomeini supposed infallibility why shouldn mind sounds you are proceeding with just the sort obfuscation you have accused always preceeded statements with understanding that now have made claim clear with regard the issue both the twelve imams and with khomeini supposed claim infalibility after hearing your seemingly more knowledgable claim that khomeini made such claim regarding himself have withdrawn that portion statement regarding that claim however have received such response regarding the infallibility the twelve imams there nothing obfuscationist about claims which are always made clearly have received such clear response regarding the twelve imams but rather abstruse references unusual metaphysical natures and other such opaque concepts often used people camoflage the baselessness their positions particularly matters theology these are just the sorts concepts used christian churches the perverting their religion salaam laikum alaikum wassalam gregg
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article apr bnr rashid writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger wrote think many reading this group would also benefit knowing how deviant the view articulated above which may not the true view khomeini from the basic principles islam that the non muslim readers this group will see how far from the simple basics islam such views are the face them and they are not contradiction with the basics islam how subtle such issues are and how seems sects exist islam while they are explicitly proscribed the qur discussing here fine shall start new thread called say infallibility islam and move the discussion there think this should illuminating all let make first suggestion when arabic words especially technical ones become use let define them for those especially atheists whom they may not terribly familiar please also note that though did initially refer khomeini heretic for what understood claim rejected you since personal infallibility withdraw this basis for such statement conditionally retain this reference regard khomeini advocacy the thesis the infallibility the called twelve imams which clear conflict with the qur that places the twelve imams category behavior and example higher than that the muhammad that the qur shows that the prophet was clearly fallible well appears given your abstruse theological statment regarding the natures the twelve imams placing them different metaphysical category than the remainder humanity with the possible exception muhammad something which verges the sin association salam laikum alaikum wassalam gregg
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article fpv horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes deletion point morals are essence personal opinions usually ideally well founded motivated such but nonetheless personal the fact that real large lot people agree some moral question sometimes even for the same reason does not make morals objective makes humans somewhat alike their opinions that moral question which can good for the evolution social species and real large lot nice phrase people agree that there football desk supposed see logical difference between the two perhaps you can explain the difference since you seem see clearly rest deleted that fallacy and not the first time pointed out not fallacy note the supermajority disinterested people agree fundamantal value not doing ethics yet benedikt then what the difference between that and those people agreeing trivial observation for one you have never given set morals people agree upon unlike football further you conveniently ignore here that there are many who would not agree tghe morality something the analogy does not hold have however given example value people agree and explained why people will agree that their freedom valuable have also stated that such value necessary condition for doing objective ethics the assertion above and that what talking about there isn point talking about ethics this can agreed one can expect sufficiently many people agree its being football while you have give the evidence that only vanishing number disagrees with set morals you have give not doing morals ethics can get past values say the only cogent objection freedom example that maybe people aren talking about the same thing when they answer that valuable maybe not and want think about this some especially the implications its being true further the above evidence not proof proof would evolve out testing your theory absolute morals against competing theories garbage that not proof either the above one the arguments you reiterate while you never answer the objections evidence that you are preacher name that fallacy frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	studies book mormon tue apr gmt cfairman leland stanford edu carolyn jean fairman said cjf agrino enkidu mic andres grino brandt asks about mormons cjf although don personally know about independent sudies know cjf few things cjf writes there are some mention about events places historical persons later discovered archeologist cjf one the more amusing things the bom claim that cjf civilization existed north america aroun where the mystical plates cjf were found not only did use steel and other metals but had cjf lots wars very one has ever found any metal swords cjf and traces civilization other than the native americans was talking the head the archeology dept once college and the topic mormon archeology came seems that the mormon church was big giving grants archeologists prove that the native americans are really the lost tribe israel and other such bunk the archeologists would shake their head knowingly while listening them take the grant and off real archeology anyway mccreary edm twisto compaq com were not for laughter there would tao
alt.atheism	science and theories per various threads science and creationism started dabbling into book called christianity and the nature science moreland question that had come from one his comments stated that god not necessarily religious term but could used other scientific terms that give explanation for events theories without being proven scientific fact think got his point can quote the section being vague the examples gave were quarks and continental plates are there explanations science parts theories that are not measurable and themselves can everything quantified measured tested etc mac michael cobb and won raise taxes the middle university illinois class pay for programs champaign urbana bill clinton debate cobb alexia lis uiuc edu nobody can explain everything anybody chesterton
alt.atheism	age reason was who has read rushdie wed apr gmt sandvik newton apple com kent sandvik said this the story kent the archetype finn that lives the bay area and tried purchase thomas paine age reason this man was driving around staceys books inc well cleanlighted place daltons various other places when asked for this book the well educated american book store assistants most placed asked him check out the thriller section then they said that his book has not been published yet but they should receive the book soon some places the assistants bluntly said that they don know such author that not well known living author they don keep copies his books such the life and times america years after the revolution sigh now don feel bad searching for copy bookstores has been habit mine for least two years now spend lot time browsing through bookstores new and and used and not once seen copy now know all pick phone and order the darned thing but come this america and one the founding fathers and one carries his books sure you can find common sense but think that because required reading for most colleges did find one hole the wall bookstore where the owner said that they usually carry one two copies but that they were currently out haven been back since don know was telling the truth not sigh mccreary edm twisto compaq com were not for laughter there would tao
alt.atheism	science and theories article news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes the examples gave were quarks and continental plates are there sounds like more the same gods were used describe almost everything the past come understand the underpinnings more and more the less credit god now the not well understood elements least the author includes quarks and tectonic drift guess that better than describing the perceived patterns stars the sky heroes being immortalized the gods kinda sounds like old earth creation seems that life did indeed evolve from common ancestor what caused that initial common ancestor are going hear another debate causeless events explanations science parts theories that are not measurable and themselves can everything quantified measured tested etc mac michael cobb frank doss the above stated words are opinions and not reflect the opinions attitudes policies employer any affilliated organizations
alt.atheism	theism and fanatism was islamic genocide article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article tqo ook horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes theism strongly correlated with irrational belief absolutes irrational belief absolutes strongly correlated with fanatism deletion theism correlated with fanaticism have neither said that all fanatism caused theism nor that all theism leads fanatism the point theism increases the chance becoming fanatic one could course argue that would fanatics tend towards theism for example but just have loook the times history when theism was the dominant ideology invalidate that conclusion that that the basic mechanism behind imo the influence stalin for that matter ayn rand invalidates your assumption that theism the factor considered bogus just said that theism not the only factor for fanatism the point that theism factor that your claim now back consider your argument useful the following belief strongly correlated with fanaticism therefore belief factor fanaticism true and utterly useless note this any belief not belief gods tiring say the least have backed read the first statement have read conspicuous its absence any evidence point the latter the fallacy the wrong analogy saying someone believes something hardly information about the person all saying someone theist holds much more information further the correlation between theists and fanatism higher than that between belief all and fanatism because the special features theistic belief truth blatant assertion evidence gullibility blind obedience authority lack scepticism and are all more reliable indicators and the really dangerous people the sources fanaticism are often none these things they are cynical manipulators the gullible who know precisely what they are doing that claim you have support please note that especially the field theism the leaders believe what they say you believe that you incredibly naive you frank dwyer are living dream world wonder there any base discussion left after such statement matter fact think you are ignorant human nature even when one starts with something one does not believe one gets easily fooled into actually believing what one says give you the benefit the doubt prove your statement the onus proof you sunshine what makes you think that theist leaders believe what they say especially when they say one thing and another say one thing closely followed its opposite the practice not restricted theism but there for anyone see almost epidemic this country just for instance harder for camel pass thru the eye needle why the catholic church such wealthy land owner why are there churches the square inch country now some brands theism and more precisely some theists tend fanaticism grant you tar all theists with this brush bigotry not reasoned argument and reads like warm for censorship and restriction religious freedom ever read animal farm that straw man and usually discussions with you one has repeat read what have written above not every theism leads fanatism and not all fanatism caused theism the point there correlation and comes from innate features theism some comes from features which some theism has common with some fanaticism your last statement simply isn implied what you say before because you trying sneak innate features all theism the word you groping for some bogus again not all theism fanatic however the rest already gives backup for the statement about the correlation about fanatism and theism and further the specialty other theistic beliefs allows them switch fanatism easily takes just nifty improvement the theology truth blatant assertion gullibility the way one them shit sherlock why not talk about gullibility instead theism since seems whole lot more relevant the case you have opposed the case you are trying make because there more about theism that the attraction gullible people causing the correlation and the whole discussion started that way the statement that theism meaningfully correlated fanatism which you challenged indeed did recall asked for evidence what the correlation which you speak and say that going forbid religion another your straw men interesting that you have nothing better offer said reads like warm that that because irrational and bogus tirade and has other use than creating nice them split the minds excitable people such are found either side church walls blah blah blah quite well aware that giving everyone their rights protects better from fanatics than the other way round course other people are always fanatics never oneself your wish slur all theists seems pretty fanatical quite nice see that you are actually implying connection between that argument and the rise fanatism far just another your assertions you can define irrational belief rational believe that reason always useful irrational belief belief that not based upon reason the latter has been discussed for long time with charley wingate one point that the beliefs violate reason often and another that process that does not lend itself rational analysis does not contain reliable information well there glaring paradox here argument that reason useful based reason would circular and argument not based reason would irrational which that bogus self reference not circular and since the evaluation usefulness possible within rational systems allowed oval still begging the question however and though that certainly allowed not rational and you claiming rational and all another your assertions proof evidence just claims hey learned from you did good the risk repeating myself and hearing had that before didn hear refutation before back deal with you can use reason demonstrate that reason useful someone who thinks reason crap won buy you see that unusually weak even for you the latter implies that proof depends their opinion somehow who does not accept that there are triangles won accept pythagoras wow that incredible insight don have prove them wrong their opinion possible show that their systems leave out useful information respectively claims unreliable even absurd statements information totally circular and totally useless their wish believe makes them believe things are judges their appeal and not their information makes you feel good when you believe that may good for them but contains zillions possible pitfalls from belief despite contrary evidence the bogus proofs they attempt truth blatant assertion seen many bogus proofs the non existence gods have their existence rational systems the way does not mean that every data has come from logical analysis the point that the evaluation the data does not contradict logic easily follows that such system does not allows evaluate its rational itself yes possible evaluate that rational system that not rational the fallacies that system but since the validity the axioms agreed upon that has little impact the possibility demon ala descartes this just doesn parse sorry far just matter consistency use ratiional arguments show that system consistent that theirs isn the evaluation the nor this predictions does not need rationality does not contradict however your argument silly proving mathematical statements needs mathematics and mathematics are therfore circular anybody else think godel was silly stream consciousness typing what that supposed mean the first part the second statement contains information because you don say what the beliefs are the beliefs are strong theism and strong atheism then your statement not general true the second part your sentence patently false counterexample axiomatic datum does not lend itself rational analysis but assumed contain reliable information regardless what process used obtain been speaking religious systems with contradictory definitions god here axiomatic datum lends itself rational analysis what you say here often refuted fallacy have look the discussion the axiom choice and further one can evaluate axioms larger systems out which they are usually derived exist derived you want that way further one can test the consistency and set axioms what you are trying say that some point people always wind saying this datum reliable for particular reason all example not dreaming nope there evidence for the trick that the choice axiomatic basis system difficult because the possibilities are interwoven one therefore chooses that with the least assumptions with assumptions that are necessary get information out the system anyway like see this alleged evidence one does not need define axioms order define evaluation method for usefulness the foundation laid how one feels all that not how one feels about see you have irrational beliefs but then fanatics never they compared the evidence theists have for their claims the strength their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational can agree with this until you are specific which theism say that all theism necessarily antirational requires proof which suspect you not have using the traditonal definition gods personal supernatural entities with objective effects this world usually connected morals and the way the world works imo any belief about such gods necessarily irrational that does not mean that people who hold them are principle opposed the exercise intelligence some atheists are also scientists for example they don use theism when doing science wouldn science please note that subjective data lend themselves scientific treatment well they just prohibit formulating them objective statements ergo nothing objective fair enough the affinity fanatism easily seen has true because believe nothing more than work hypothesis however the beliefs say they are more than work hypothesis don understand this can you formalise your argument person believes system becuase sounds nice that does not make true best work hypothesis however the content that true and that more than work hypothesis testing evaluating evidence for against therefore dismissed because already believed says wrong waste time not possible depending the further contents amalekites idolaters protestants are killed this can have interesting effects peculiar definition interesting but sure now show that belief gods entails the further contents which you speak why aren catholic neighbours out killing the protestants for example maybe they don believe maybe the conjunction asserts and jail kill dissenters that important and the belief gods entirely irrelevant certainly seems but then have axe grind here the example with your neighbours fallacy that your neighbours don says little about others and there were times when exactly that happened nope not fallacy just doesn the correlation you wish see and tell when not irrelevant why are such statements about amalekites and idolaters the holy books please note that one could edit them out when they are not relevant anymore because gods don err what does that say about that message excuse the holy books and how come had theists saying genocides ordered god are god the easiest way excuse anything and therefore highly attracting fanatics not mention the effect interpretation these fanatics can have the rest the believers happens again and again and again god neither the easiest way excuse anything nor the only way frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality article apr cnsvax uwec edu nyeda cnsvax uwec edu david nye writes reply frank uucp frank dwyer the problem for the objectivist determine the status moral truths and the method which they can established accept that such judgements are not reports what but only relate what ought see naturalistic fallacy then they cannot proved any facts about the nature the world this can avoided least two ways leaving the good undefined since anyone who claims that they not know what either lying out touch with humanity undeserving reply the good undefined undefinable but you require everyone that they know innately what right you are back subjectivism and begging the question see below defining the good solely terms evaluative terms ditto here evaluative statement implies value judgement the part the person making again incorrect and question begging see below this point the objectivist may talk self evident truths pretty perceptive that prof flew but can deny the subjectivist claim that self evidence the mind the beholder course denying that subject object true dichotomy please explain how this helps don see your argument don see yours seems rest the assertion that everything either subject object there nothing compelling about that dichotomy might just well divide the world into subject object event even seems more sensible causation for example event not subject object furthermore subject object were true dichotomy everything either subject object then that statement self evident truth not then all the mind the beholder according the relativist and hardly compelling add that the fact that the world can quickly shoved its entirety into the subjective category idealist solipsist argument and that have this perfectly good alternate set categories subject object event which can reduced subject object quality without any logical difficulty and why yes guess denying that self evident truths are all the mind the beholder not what left the claim that some moral judgements are true all nothing then moral judgements are true this thing that commonly referred nihilism entails that science value irrepective the fact that some people find useful how anyone arrives relativism subjectivism from this argument beats this makes sense either flew arguing that this where the objectivist winds not the subjectivist furthermore the nihilists believed nothing except science materialism revolution and the people referring ethical nihilism the subjectivist may well feel that all that remains that there are some moral judgements with which would wish associate himself hold moral opinion suggests not know something true but have preferences regarding human activity and those preferences should include terrorism that moral opinion not true likewise the preferences should include noterrorism that moral opinion not true why should one choose set preferences which include terrorisim over one which includes noterrorism reason this patently absurd and also not the position the subjectivist has been pointed out you already others ditch the strawman already and see reply mike cobb root message the thread societal basis for morality responded over there btw don intend this strawman but something logically entailed relativism really any ethical system where values are assumed unreal different say relativists say than relativism implies frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	free moral agency article minster york cjhs minster york writes are you saying that their was physical adam and eve and that all humans are direct decendents only these two human beings then who were cain and able wives couldn their sisters because didn have daughters were they non humans genesis and the days adam after begat seth were eight hundred years and begat sons and daughters felicitations chris stuart yeah but these were not the wives the wives came from nod apparently land being developed another set gods brian
alt.atheism	room for metaphor can and take religious writings metaphor for life this with all sorts fiction from beowolf deep space nine the idea not limit yourself one book screen out the good stuff from what you read and remember that all just story you sound buddist brian
alt.atheism	the universe and black holes was years article apr iastate edu iastate edu warren vonroeschlaub wrote article inn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes well suppose probe emitting radiation constant frequency was sent towards black hole got closer the event horizon the red shift would keep increasing the period would get longer and longer but would never stop observer would not observe the probe actually reaching the event horizon the detected energy from the probe would keep decreasing but wouldn vanish exp never quite reaches zero that kind what meant more precise given any observer any single position outside the event horizon would that observer ever any way able detect the probe having crossed the event horizon yes unless the observer rest with respect the singularity infinite distance away but observer close approach the will see the particle finite time peter don forget sing they say there heaven for those who will wait some say better but say ain rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints the sinners are much more fun only the good die young
alt.atheism	asimov stamp battin cyclops iucf indiana edu laurence gene battin writes apart from the suggestion that appeared the letters column skeptical inquirer recently has there been any further mention about possible asimov commemorative stamp this idea hasn been followed does anyone know what needs done get this happen think that its great idea should start petition something sure all the religious types would get snit due asimov atheism have any atheists stamps now mark schnitzius schnitzi eola ucf edu university central florida
alt.atheism	amusing atheists and agnostics article timmbake mcl timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons writes nah will encourage people learn about atheism see how little atheists have their sleeves whatever might have suspected actually quite riddle this god exist why earth should grovel why earth should give damm all what evidence you have that such creature exist deserves anything beyond mild admiration sheer hatred for what they have done the past whichever god you care pick that assuming any records their actions are correct religon offers bliss bubble self contained reality which seperate from the physical world any belief system can leave you such state and can drugs god are not requirement only you remove such useless tappestry can you build set morals build society upon that keep exterminating those who don believe converting them eric new viruses right life virus won allow you delete file regardless how old you attempt erase file requires you first see counselor about possible alternatives
alt.atheism	some thoughts article rekj darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes james felder spbach lerc nasa gov wrote logic alert argument from incredulity just because hard for you believe this doesn mean that isn true liars can very pursuasive just look koresh that you yourself cite this whole basis great many here rejecting the christian account things the words madalyn murrey hair face folks just silly why okay disbelieve because your incredulity you admit that fallacy bill suppose for the same reason that you not believe all the gods why should any any different use the same arguments dismiss koresh god tell then why you not believe that koresh the son god logic equally possible that koresh jesus reborn adda wainwright does dim atal llanw eczcaw mips nott mae sig werth
alt.atheism	death penalty was political atheists article rlyz darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes this fascinating atheists argue for abortion prove atheist doesn mean for against abortion defend homosexuality means population control obvious effect homosexuality non procreation that unlike your statement fact please prove that homosexuality defended means population control being atheist causes you hold these beliefs defend homosexuality because what people with their bodies none business defend the equal rights all humans you insist that the only values are biological define values prove your statement something contardictory cannot exist which this case means atheists suppose prove your statement electrons are waves electrons are particles believe both have physical proof both have proof god only ancient book that not indicative the existence being with omnipotence omnipresence and your own argument christians don exist would like understand how atheist can object war excellent means controlling population growth capital punishment sorry but the logic escapes and why just capital punishment what being questioned here the propriety killing punishment what the basis the ecomplaint first all your earlier statements have absolutely nothing with your question why did you post them show that athiests besides not existing your view are more humane than christians other religions secondly very much for the control population growth the logic that you cannot grasp indicates ignorance contraception but course this outlawed sometimes literally religion since can create more followers will die bill adda wainwright does dim atal llanw eczcaw mips nott mae sig werth
alt.atheism	you will all hell jsn jeremy scott noonan
alt.atheism	you will all hell article apr ncsu edu aiken news ncsu edu wayne nmi aiken writes jsn psuvm psu edu wrote you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation did someone leave their terminal unattended again holy temple mass slack ncsu edu used underwear consumption legal tender box bbs countries raleigh warning hoard pennies bob probably not the jesus freak post probably jsn psuvm penn state just loaded the hilt with bible bangers use there vomit and was the reason left they even had group try stop playing rock music the dining halls one year cuz they deemed satanic kampus krusade for khrist people run the damn place for the most part except the liberal arts departments they are the safe havens wdb rock music the dining
alt.atheism	some thoughts article therose pdx com alan olsen fidonet org alan olsen writes from alan olsen fidonet org alan olsen subject some thoughts date wed apr from house helios usq edu ron house newsgroups alt atheism organization university southern queensland bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes first want start right out and say that christian know shouldn get involved but bit deleted the book says that jesus was either liar was crazy modern day koresh was actually who said was rest rant deleted this standard argument for fundies can you spot the falicy the statement arguing from the assumption that jesus actually existed far they have not been able offer real proof that existance just thought necessary help defend the point that jesus existed guys jesus existed didnt then you have say that socrates didnt exist cuz like jesus has nothing from his hands that have survived only plato and others record his existance many others record jesus existance including the babylonian talmud sorry guys the argument that jesus may not have existed dead point now did whether was god whether there god completely different story however most them try using the very flawed writings josh mcdowell and others prove but those writers use very flawed sources they are real sources all some are not when will they ever learn real research instead believing the drivel sold the christian bookstores righto dan try this one with your cornflakes the book says that muhammad was either liar was crazy modern day mad mahdi was actually who said was some reasons why wouldn liar are follows who would die for lie wouldn people able tell was liar people gathered around him and kept doing many gathered from hearing seeing how his son law made the sun stand still call fool but believe did make the sun stand still niether was lunatic would more than entire nation drawn someone who was crazy very doubtful fact rediculous for example anyone who drawn the mad mahdi obviously fool logical people see this right away therefore since wasn liar lunatic must have been the real thing nice rebutal alan
alt.atheism	christian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com writes the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you there difference between believing the existence entity and loving that entity god could show directly that exists and still have free choice about whether love him not why doesn kevin anthoney kax nott don believe anything you read sig files
alt.atheism	genocide caused theism evidence benedikt roseneau article horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes the information that invariant under your child being son daughter and singing about santa claus wasn your argument that there has more more than what more than assume which what exactly most the people debate disagree with premises hardly debate otherwise your favorite point that sense there has been challenged more than once when did you said good question and did not address addressed your caricature not favourite point needless say length previous outing and currently discussing with eric rescorla there little point responding the same points everywhere best give everyone the courtesy reply you still repeat that point curious since believe that was the first time ever made not that repetition would imply much more than your seeming inability understand you ask the same question give you the same answer especially when this case know the answer true best give everyone the courtesy reply but everyone making the same points and pushed for time then try respond what believe are the strongest formulations those points that doesn include your post tough this usenet and life tough all over since there great deal responses this isn always feasible best honestly answer questions put you drop out debates with some posters and continue with others you appear with the same issue every months and start the dicussion the beginning again only debated this issue twice and occasionally the first was response simon clippingdale positive assertion that disagreement about moral values inexorably acknowledges that morals are relative doesn now simon has dropped out the debate for some time take that mean that either busy bored with the topic certainly not accuse him dishonesty you can always understand what you say neither can understand you all the time usually one asks what the other side means usually one does usually you clear but sometimes you aren and ask you what you mean other times you seem get extremely uptight and feel that debating against line noise sometimes get tired and sometimes have other things rather again this usenet and life tough all over you going have deal with you starting get personally insulting may not even put your name the hat future that supposed threat that simple statement and assertion that not answerable those who offer baseless insults for example those who accuse lying about personal beliefs while also complaining that don answer their questions like that you what you sense evidence for the sensed there only everything would easy what almost everyone senses evidence for the sensed there because all intents and purposes there had that argument for one your claim that everyone senses not founded and you have been asked give evidence for often and then the correct statement would reason assume that there unless evidence against has been found have problem with the second statement have provided argument that almost everyone senses that freedom valuable the only cogent objection this came from jon livesey and was offered some other people too essentially that people disagree about fuzzy concepts such freedom good point and thinking about your trick say feel not right and many know therefore absolutely right neglects the possibility that these people consider right effect the same process restricting the claim its absoluteness those who have been subject that process other words refutes you make the ontological claim you have prove nonsense trick say feel that better than and does almost any disinterested person ask best evidence therefore that really better than subject the assumption that can establish our mutual satisfaction what mean and and that the resulting system values self consistent now get this really better idealisation fictional model the same sense that real material existence fictional model may may not correspond something true nonetheless useful assumption far more useful than the equally assumed relativist trick wit feel that better than and does almost any disinterested person ask however even one person disagrees that better than even one person dissents from mutually agreed definitions and then the case that better than for that person and nothing more can said say this useless because inexorably implies that supermajority seeking maximise cannot morally take action against someone seeking maximise terrorist that would claim that supermajority carefully considered morality would better than the terrorist which would course true but for ethical relativist claim that ethical relativism implies anything else simply weasel words and example compartmentalisation rival anything the world religion for similar argument sense morality subjective does not hurt things that are considered objectively wrong others you mean that you things that some others consider objectively wrong and turns out not the case for you course this possible neither evidence for subjectivism nor evidence against objectivism except sometimes pragmatic sense serves counterexample for that everything that subject judgements absolute and long you don provide evidence for that there something universally agreed upon there reason believe your hypothesis done this freedom with the proviso that still have answer jon objection that fuzzy concepts like freedom have objective meaning further order make morality absolute universal objective you would have show that independent humans the attributes above look quite misleading not really what evidence there that anything exists independently humans you hard pressed find any that isn logically equivalent when applied values analogous set premises would premise some people believe that objectively speaking the shortest route from house bar through the main entrance the estate and down the malahide road premise checked out and found that the shortest route from which much closer you would never deduce from these that there shortest route from house bar yet that seemingly how you derive your relativist claim using premises which are logically different morals are matter belief far the people still believe that the shortest way through the main entrance agreement belief here and order have analogy you would have show that there shortest way and that there method convince everyone that the shortest way indeed other words your analogy works only when one assumes that your premises are right the first place not fallacy and this were argument for objectivism you right isn though demonstration that the argument you gave neither argument against objectivism nor argument for relativism your gimmick assume the first place that values aren real and use this prove that values aren real other words you beg the question against frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	gulf war and peace niks article apr batman bmd trw com jbrown batman bmd trw com writes article apr bmerh bnr dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham writes actually rather like your idea perhaps the rest the world should have bombed maybe missiled washington when the invaded nicaragua grenada panama vietnam mexico hawaii any number other places wait minute doug know you are better informed than that the has never invaded nicaragua far know liberated grenada liberate the way invader describes invasion including not mistaken the iraqi liberation kuwait never invaded nicaragua only with more word games can you say send the marines you mean the word invaded some sort military action where cross someone border you are right out but normally invaded carries connotation attacking autonomous nation some nation invades the virgin islands would they invading the virgin islands the from this point view your score falls out mexico panama good word games you let the aggressor pick the words there scarcely ever been reprehensible military action what peace nik that somebody who doesn masturbate over guns ammo what supposed bad peace nik someone who believes peace all costs other words person who would have supported giving hitler not only austria and czechoslakia but poland too could have averted the war and one who would allow hitler wipe all all jews slavs and political dissidents areas controlled long left the rest alone that convenient technique much seen alt atheism define those who disagree with you according straw man extreme that matches virtually nobody supposed bad peace nik you ask well depends what your values are you value life over liberty peace over freedom then guess not but liberty and freedom mean more you than life itself you rather die fighting for liberty than live under tyrant heel then yes bad peace nik very noble and patriotic sure the fine young americans who carpet bombed iraqi infantry positions from over the horizon destroyed iraq sewer and water infrastructure from the safety the sky further who bulldozed other iraqi infantry into their trenches more importantly the commanders who ordered them were just thrilled risking death not risking much the defense the liberty well wealthy kuwaitis can have those oil fields under tyrant heel that tyrant antagonistic interests the problem with most peace niks they consider those who are not like them bad and unconscionable would not have any argument problem with peace nik they held their ideals and stayed out all conflicts issues especially those dealing with the national defense but they are not willing allow legitimately hold different point view having pigeon holed peace niks this context people who disagree with about the conduct the gulf war into peace all cost hitler supporting genocide abetting wimps you can now express righteous indignation when they refuse fit this mold and question the conduct the war legitimate terms how dare they they militate and many times resort violence all the name peace what rank hypocrisy yes hypocrisy indeed those violent peace niks care list example here all stop warmongers who are willing stand and defend our freedoms against tyrants and who realize that requires strong national defense wow instant nostalgia course peace nik itself cold war derogatory term equating those who promote pacifism with godless pinko communists yes indeed felt freedoms mightily threatened iraq jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality hfj horus mchp sni frank uucp writes deletia case anybody hadn noticed frank and are debating objective morality and seemingly hitting semantics secondly how can refute your definition can only point its logical implications and say that they seem contradict the usage the word objective other areas indeed your definition objective oxymoron for all have quibble with that belief other than that useless and that objective perfectly good word may that being non native english speaker misunderstood your usage objective and tried debate something you don assert apologies loss imagine what you really mean though how many ages can the universe have and still internally self consistent amazed was more than one how many different moral systems can different members society have indeed single individuals some cases and humanity still stick together begging the question people can have many opinions about the age the universe and humanity can still stick together you are saying that the universe has real age independent beliefs about why wrong point the age the universe has direct effect humanity sticking power the way the moral system society can have saying the universe has real age because see evidence for cosmology astronomy and say this age independent people opinions because know different people have lot different opinions the matter yet empirical tests consistently seem give roughly the same results the age the universe like most scientific facts can emirically verified through means that give the same result matter who performs the testing albeit there are error bars that may the largish side this assumes that the universe has real age any kind reality which doesn depend what think can see how does that put creationist the task performing the tests and calculations see makes blatant errors measuring calculating and the result the test will the same why should extreme biblical creationist give rat ass about the means which you speak because logically consistent empirical tests contradict their opinion those tests were just opinion then their own tests which would then their opinion would contradict mine even conducted said tests identical manner they don which take showing these tests have some validity beyond our opinion them heard way verify morality consistent way much less compute the errors the measurement care enlighten the same true pain but painkillers exist and can predicted work with some accuracy better than random guess map the activity nerves and neural activity you mean physical pain you have sharp point give you that but you still haven given way quantify morality wrote elsewhere that morality should hypotheses about observed value agree hypotheses however can change hold that there ultimate hypothesis morality towards which these changes could gravitate but that they could changed any way imaginable producing different results suitable for different tasks purposes moral system makes prediction will better that can tested better and worse are almost always defined the context moral system your prediction will always correct within that moral system what you need now objective definition good and bad wish you luck people ideas about the age object are not objective you can have any idea you like and can stop you universae and their ages another ballgame they are what they are and you dislike some detail them that problem with your opinion them sure assume objective reality and you get statements like this isn that what you doing when assuming objectively real morality besides what exactly provably wrong with statement claim that morality opinion ours and such subjective and individual wrong then some more less objectively real thing exists which you label objective morality can you back this positive claim existence can you back your positive claim above that because assumption make the same assumption about values the basis that there logical difference between the two and the empirical basis the two precisely the same claiming there objective morality suddenly positive claim besides think can lend some credence claim ponder different individuals both fully functional human beings and members society but yet with wildly different moral codes morality was objective least one should way off base but yet hir incorrect morality seems function fine how come for producing these individuals might easiest pick them from different societies say islamic one and some polynesian matrilineal system for example such still exist deletia testing for footballs desks now take look morality see anything please inform which way look and why look that particular way opposed some other get drift just look are you claiming never know what good means one thing good under some circumstances because wish achieve some goal for some reason other times wish something else and that thing longer clearly good all some things are hard make good because seldom ever wish achieve the sort goal mass murder would lead one into still the aztecs were doing fine until the spaniards wiped them out almost always know what good means sometimes even know why never claim this good thereby fixed stone immutable that simple matter proving the track record the scientific method think great and should applied values may completely wrong but that what conclude result quite amount thought yes too and tried thing two down that line doesn look good for objective values all disclaimer great young and insane
alt.atheism	asimov stamp article schnitzi eustis schnitzi eustis ucf edu mark schnitzius writes battin cyclops iucf indiana edu laurence gene battin writes apart from the suggestion that appeared the letters column skeptical inquirer recently has there been any further mention about possible asimov commemorative stamp this idea hasn been followed does anyone know what needs done get this happen think that its great idea should start petition something sure all the religious types would get snit due asimov atheism have any atheists stamps now more the point how long are atheists going insulted the disgraceful addition religious blah blah our money and out pledge what big noisy and has operation rescue
alt.atheism	mottos replace dog trust andrew hilmer hilmera storm orst edu wrote the risk beginning cascade start with possibly cheesy good uhmericun our shield freedom considering what our government has been doing for the past years perhaps this would more appropriate debt holy temple mass slack ncsu edu used underwear consumption legal tender box bbs countries raleigh warning hoard pennies bob
alt.atheism	islamic genocide article fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes article ubl horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes noting that particular society this case the mainland has few religously motivated murders and few murders any kind says very little about whether inter religion murders elsewhere are religiously motivated but allows one conclude that there nothing inherent all religion for that matter catholicism and protestantism that motivates one kill motivates allows the christian bible says that one may kill under certain circumstances fact instructs one kill under certain circumstances say the majority people have moral system that instructs them kill under certain circumstances get your distinction between motivate and allow and agree that flavour theism allows atoricities then that indictment that theism but rather depends what the certain circumstances are when you talk about christianity islam then least your claims can understood when people general statement about theism that falls apart one could believe god which instructs one utterly harmless for part conclude that something else required also happen believe that that something else will work less well without religion any easy them will and what does religion supply not easy them not necessarily love thy neighbour does not supply them demolishes and definition religion broader than definition theism have explained insisting that even the murder four labourers chosen because they were catholics and who had nothing with the ira protestant extremists not religously motivated think what you are saying that you simply will not accept any murder being religiously motivated what about that guy who cut off someone head because believed was the devil incarnate that was religously motivated what about the protestant extremists who killed four catholic labourers that wasn religiously motivated not opinion they were doing because some obscure point theology then yes but since all protestants don this nor they elect extremists for them just too broad too say religion did this saying that the causes are far more complex than that take away the religious element and you still have the powerful motives revenge and misguided patriotism you know when most catholics and protestants worldwide say stop the killing one might listen that especially when you claim not read minds also the murders ensuing from the fatwa rushdie the inquisitions and the many religous wars what special about these exceptions isn this all just grab bag hoc excuses for not considering some other murders religiously motivated what the general principle behind all this the general principle that fairly clear least that religion the primary motivator enabler whatever these not nearly obvious what going when one looks apart from violence course not abstract argument northern irish protestants say don want absorbed into officially catholic country now what are supposed are supposed reply that only what you think you don want dwyer assures that matter what you say you want you really want something else you think the unionists wouldn mind being absorbed into non catholic country other than the course terrible thing lose mind maybe the word country there for more than just kicks certainly don believe that the unionists are for god think they wish maintain their position privilege still listening what they say and you are still telling your version what they think you read minds and don you speculated motives often enough and you don take statements own beliefs face value therefore your claim not read minds has credibility with sorry also note that you fail answer question just looks very much like you have axe grind especially you are indeed ignoring what most protestants say which stop the killing the people you refer are properly described unionists not protestants for their position privilege what that not religion based based politics bigotry and heartless extremism none these things are synonymous with religion though there certainly some overlap frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	asimov stamp article schnitzi eustis schnitzi eustis ucf edu mark schnitzius writes sure all the religious types would get snit due asimov atheism have any atheists stamps now due discussion this group some time ago the theists would more likely take asimov quote out context and paint him the biggest bible thumpin god fearin atheist hatin christian you ever laid eyes right there with einstein bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com they said that queens could stay they blew the bronx away and sank manhattan out sea
alt.atheism	more best rapture october what case you miss the rapture stay calm and not panic your natural reaction once you realize what has just occurred panic but absolutely useless now you had wanted get right with god before the rapture you could have but you chose wait now your only chance stay this earth and endure the end the tribulation but that shall endure unto the end the same shall saved matthew realize you are now living during the great tribulation the great tribulation seven year period starting from the time the rapture until christ second coming also know the time jacob israel trouble jere and daniel seventieth week dan this period will unparalleled trouble and horror iii gather many bibles you can and hide them soon after the antichrist becomes the leader the european community the revived roman empire bibles will confiscated and owning bible will tantamount treason the bible however will your most valuable possession during the tribulation read the bible like you have never read before your life since all your bibles may confiscated even you are careful imperative that you read the word until you memorize whole passages and can quote them especially important read daniel luke matthew revelation and amos for these books describe the events you can expect unfold before you pray like you have never prayed before your life pray until the power god comes strongly upon you pray and pray and pray only reading the word and praying will you gain the spiritual strength able withstand the torture you may have endure for the sake christ not take the mark any cost even fit means you and your loved ones die martyrs after the antichrist becomes the leader the european community will institute world economic system designed that you cannot buy sell eat unless you take his mark the number his name money will useless and causes all both small and great rich and poor free and slave receive mark their right hand their foreheads and that one may buy sell except one who has the mark the name the beast the number his name here wisdom let him who has understanding calculate the number the beast for the number man his number revelation the antichrist will implement the greatest slaughter all humanity think the various ways people have been tortured and killed the past such the holocaust maybe the crusades you cannot even imagine the horror that will take place under the antichrist rule will much worse than anything history matt saw under the altar the souls those who had been slain for the word god and for the testimony which they held and white robe was given each them and was said them that they should rest little while longer until both the number the fellow servants and their brethren who would killed they were was completed revelation his targets will jews and christians who not worship his image take the mark their forehead right hadn and saw the souls those who had been beheaded for their witness jesus and for the word god who had not worshiped the beast his image and had not received his mark their foreheads the hands revelation will use every form torture and humiliation order force you renounce christ nor will hesitate use your loved ones against you even your children torturing and killing them front you that you will tempted take the mark you take the mark worship the antichrist his image however you will consigned the second death which the lake fire sung about eloquently johnny cash you cannot redeemed better endure torture for short while and gain eternal life then sic endure eternal torment the ring lake fire anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark his forehead his hand himself shall also drink the wine the wrath god which poured out full strength into the cup his indignation sic shall tormented with fire and brimstone the presence the holy angels and the presence the lamb revelation and probably the presence season ticket holders special hats given the first the stadium vii set plan motion for survival although you may not able hide from the antichrist government until the end the tribulation all the time you gain hiding important for your spiritual growth and strengthening since only those who are extremely strong christ can suffer and die for his sake the first thing move out the city and into rural mountainous area for the antichrist control will come last the least populated areas take good radio with you that you can stay attuned events and discern the time schedule the tribulation you can see the weather map heavy currents tribulation will sweep into our area daybreak expect delays outbound and perhaps school closings store water and food because you will not able purchase anything without the mark water lakes and streams will polluted radioactive waste from nuclear warfare and will eventually turn into blood get good water filter bring different types clothing for all seasons well flashlights batteries generators and first aid supplies short learn how survive and live off the land the pioneers did viii trust one there will secret agents everywhere spying for the antichrist government the lookout perot supporters take note watch for the antichrist important realize who the antichrist and what for will deceive many into thinking that great world leader who will bring peace and prosperity world hungry for can infer from daniel certain characteristics this man popular during the first three and half years the tribulation will dominate the airwaves will physically appealing highly intelligent with christ like charisma and personality international politician military tactician and economic expert his word will peace will make treaty with the jews which will break after three and half years will have such supernatural power that mortal wound his head will healed even the very elect will deceived you not pray and read the bible you too will deceived dominate the airwaves perhaps howard stern rush limbaugh the antichrist will have companion the false prohphet sic who will make image the likeness the antichrist and cause speak all who refuse worhsip sic the image will killed the final three and half years will absolutely insane with demonized spirits everywhere not give hope the seven years tribulation will end with the triumphant return christ the antichrist will defeated steadfast and endure and you will rewarded greatly heaven start reading the bible and praying fervently now the salvation your sould depends upon determine that come what may you will not take the mark worship the antichrist you still have chance saved remain saved but this time you will have faithful unto death may god find you ready the hour his glorious return mike cluff christianity stupid ubvms mike luick ubvms give negativland language perception laboratory bob beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com they said that queens could stay they blew the bronx away and sank manhattan out sea
alt.atheism	are atoms real article news rich bnr bcash crchh nosubdomain nodomain brian cash writes petri and mathew your discusion the reality atoms interesting but would seem that you are verging the question anything real that since observation not reliable how can say that anything real don think this was the intention the original question since you now define out the word real that nothing can meet its criteria just thought brian rainbows and shadows are real they are not objects they are phenomenon interesting question would atoms are objects classical phenomenon neo quantum what been following this train talk and the question dismissing atoms being some sense not real leaves uneasy seems implied that obseve only the effects and therefore the underlying thing not necessarily real the tree outside window this category observe the light which bounces off not the tree itself the observation indirect but more than observations have made atoms also what about observations and experiments that have been routinely done with individual atoms thinking particular atom trapping experiments and tests fundamental quantum mechanics such the quantum zeno effect where individual atom studied for long period time some the attempts quantum mechanical arguments were not very satisfying either one has carefull about making such arguments without solid technical background the field what read seemed little confused quite red herring anyway the purpose public debate make the audience think worked after doing willing try defend the following assertion anyone cares atoms are real trees and are real the ussual every day sense the word real
alt.atheism	free moral agency article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article voinnr lynx unm edu cfaehl vesta unm edu chris faehl writes the myth which refer the convoluted counterfeit athiests have created make religion appear absurd you don need any counterfeit athiest myth make religion appear absurd you need only read any friendly christian bill conner posts jim halat halat bear com bear stearns whatever doesn kill you will only serve annoy you nyc speak only for myself
alt.atheism	some thoughts article apr mks com mike mks com mike brookbank writes article apr mac macalstr edu acooper mac macalstr edu writes article bissda saturn wwc edu bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes die for lie wouldn people able tell was liar light yesterday events waco texas guess the answer your questions are very obvious you think waco just one example think back jonestown where more than people died for lie deletions correction think was also contrary earlier belief now widely accepted that not all committed suicide but were actually killed the end they did die for lie but some not out conviction alone thought try make this point clear disclaimer the opinions expressed this posting are mine solely and not represent employer any way karner aix technical support karner austin vnet ibm com
alt.atheism	islam and sufism was move the islam discussions short reply kent sandvik post remarking how strange that somehow sufism related islam him they seem quite different one really understands islam not strange that sufism associated with fact sufism general seen the inner dimension islam one the roots the word islam submission islam denotes submission god sufism the most complete submission god imaginable annihilating oneself god not sufi the sufi path but have read lot and recently have been discussing number things with others who are the sufi path fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	genocide caused atheism apr nott eczcaw mips nott wainwright writes article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes great respect love for particular person does not equal form theism fred rice darice yoyo monash edu hmm what about jesus sure person could have great respect for jesus and yet atheist having great respect for jesus does not necessarily mean that one has follow the christian muslim interpretation his life fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	atheism survey replied this query via mail but think there are some issues that are worth discussing public mta mtabbott unix amherst edu wrote doing research atheism part which involves field research here the net the following survey directed towards all readers this group intended get data about the basis atheistic belief would recommend you take look your dictionary alt atheism faq files notice that atheism not belief system and what common all atheists not belief but lack belief deities cannot imagine how anyone could research atheism without paying careful attention this issue first all tried structure questions that can answered variety ways with varying amounts detail possible give succinct answers most everything but there enough here keep most you typing for hours sure imho this poor method any real survey although sure the replies might keep you amused for hours also tend use lot anthropological buzzwords like belief system although know some you might contend that you don have any beliefs but are skeptical towards everything understand but you know what mean think such buzzwords abbreviations for the rather unweildy phrases required get the precise idea across not know what you mean you are surveying our individual philosophies fine but that not strictly atheism atheism not just another godless version the theistic explanations for life the universe and everything not belief system and could hardly called philosophical system once more atheism characterised lack belief deities not twist the meaning assume that have some kind philosophy all agree some comments your questions what contact with other atheists have you had before and after and during your conversion atheism certainly your involvement with alt atheism counts how have net discussions affected your beliefs would also like hear more about this have been able convert anyone are you convinced that your beliefs were acquired through wholly rational means proofs the non existence god etc was perhaps least part through other means alienation from mainstream religion etc this question contains contradiction terms beliefs cannot acquired rationally they could they would not beliefs you also seem have rather strange ideas how people become atheists those who are alienated from religion not necessarily become atheists they just think very little about religion seems requires considerable time honest inquiry find out that religions are actually intellectually dishonest virtual realities those who have never had beliefs will certainly find this question quite odd how can lack belief acquired when did acquire lack belief the easter bunny did believe santa though what extent you feel you understand the universe through your beliefs what phenomena the universe and human existence anything from physical phenomena the problem the existence evil human affairs you feel are adequately dealt with your beliefs and where are they lacking explanatory method this question does not make any sense since atheism does not deal with these issues not worldview philosophy belief system sigh why haven seen good well thought survey the usenet for three years and what the point doing surveys the net anyway just abstract some opinions petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics the truth pihatie finou oulu physics the rule oulu kempmp the game finland phoenix oulu chemistry the game
alt.atheism	theism and fanatism was islamic genocide article dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes article horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes theism strongly correlated with irrational belief absolutes irrational belief absolutes strongly correlated with fanatism deletion theism correlated with fanaticism have neither said that all fanatism caused theism nor that all theism leads fanatism the point theism increases the chance becoming fanatic one could course argue that would fanatics tend towards theism for example but just have loook the times history when theism was the dominant ideology invalidate that conclusion that that the basic mechanism behind imo the influence stalin for that matter ayn rand invalidates your assumption that theism the factor considered bogus just said that theism not the only factor for fanatism the point that theism factor that your claim now back consider your argument useful the following belief strongly correlated with fanaticism therefore belief factor fanaticism true and utterly useless note this any belief not belief gods gullibility blind obedience authority lack scepticism and are all more reliable indicators and the really dangerous people the sources fanaticism are often none these things they are cynical manipulators the gullible who know precisely what they are doing that claim you have support please note that especially the field theism the leaders believe what they say you believe that you incredibly naive now some brands theism and more precisely some theists tend fanaticism grant you tar all theists with this brush bigotry not reasoned argument and reads like warm for censorship and restriction religious freedom ever read animal farm that straw man and usually discussions with you one has repeat read what have written above not every theism leads fanatism and not all fanatism caused theism the point there correlation and comes from innate features theism some comes from features which some theism has common with some fanaticism your last statement simply isn implied what you say before because you trying sneak innate features all theism the word you groping for some gullibility the way one them shit sherlock why not talk about gullibility instead theism since seems whole lot more relevant the case you have opposed the case you are trying make and say that going forbid religion another your straw men interesting that you have nothing better offer said reads like warm that that because irrational and bogus tirade and has other use than creating nice them split the minds excitable people such are found either side church walls define irrational belief rational believe that reason always useful irrational belief belief that not based upon reason the latter has been discussed for long time with charley wingate one point that the beliefs violate reason often and another that process that does not lend itself rational analysis does not contain reliable information well there glaring paradox here argument that reason useful based reason would circular and argument not based reason would irrational which that bogus self reference not circular and since the evaluation usefulness possible within rational systems allowed oval still begging the question however and though that certainly allowed not rational and you claiming rational and all the risk repeating myself and hearing had that before didn hear refutation before back deal with you can use reason demonstrate that reason useful someone who thinks reason crap won buy you see your argument silly proving mathematical statements needs mathematics and mathematics are therfore circular anybody else think godel was silly the first part the second statement contains information because you don say what the beliefs are the beliefs are strong theism and strong atheism then your statement not general true the second part your sentence patently false counterexample axiomatic datum does not lend itself rational analysis but assumed contain reliable information regardless what process used obtain been speaking religious systems with contradictory definitions god here axiomatic datum lends itself rational analysis what you say here often refuted fallacy have look the discussion the axiom choice and further one can evaluate axioms larger systems out which they are usually derived exist derived you want that way further one can test the consistency and set axioms what you are trying say that some point people always wind saying this datum reliable for particular reason all example not dreaming compared the evidence theists have for their claims the strength their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational can agree with this until you are specific which theism say that all theism necessarily antirational requires proof which suspect you not have using the traditonal definition gods personal supernatural entities with objective effects this world usually connected morals and the way the world works imo any belief about such gods necessarily irrational that does not mean that people who hold them are principle opposed the exercise intelligence some atheists are also scientists for example the affinity fanatism easily seen has true because believe nothing more than work hypothesis however the beliefs say they are more than work hypothesis don understand this can you formalise your argument person believes system becuase sounds nice that does not make true best work hypothesis however the content that true and that more than work hypothesis testing evaluating evidence for against therefore dismissed because already believed says wrong waste time not possible depending the further contents amalekites idolaters protestants are killed this can have interesting effects peculiar definition interesting but sure now show that belief gods entails the further contents which you speak why aren catholic neighbours out killing the protestants for example maybe they don believe maybe the conjunction asserts and jail kill dissenters that important and the belief gods entirely irrelevant certainly seems but then have axe grind here frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	christian morality article ousrvr oulu kempmp phoenix oulu petri pihko writes dan schaertel dps nasa kodak com wrote love god just much she loves she wants seduce she know what but she did you would probably consider rape simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic our ability reason just spec creation yet some think the ultimate you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now your argument the type you know once you try yet there are many atheists who have sincerely tried and believed for many years but were eventually honest enough admit that they had lived virtual reality obviously there are many christians who have tried and believe learn you must accept that which you don know what does this mean learn you must accept that you don know something right but learn you must accept something don know why this not the way prefer learn unwise merely swallow everything you read suppose write book telling how the great invisible pink unicorn has helped daily problems would you accept this since you can know whether true not one asks you swallow everything fact jesus warns against but let ask you question you beleive what you learn history class for that matter anything school mean just what other people have told you and you don want swallow what others say right the life death and resurection christ documented historical fact much anything else you learn how you choose what believe and what not could argue that george washington myth never lived because don have any proof except what told however all the major events the life jesus christ were fortold hundreds years before him neat trick there way get into sceptical heart you can not say you have given sincere effort with the attitude you seem have you must trust not just church and participate activities were you ever willing die for what you believed
alt.atheism	alt atheism faq constructing logical argument here suggestion for the logical argument faq don think covered though the fallacy probably has better name than the one used how about mathew inconsistency and counterexample this occurs when one party points out that some source information takes stand which inconsistent with there are two variations which either mutually agreed premise else stand elsewhere from the same source the second party fallaciously responds saying see the source really does say right here this reply does not refute the allegation inconsistency because does not show that the source only says example the first type the koran says unbelievers should treated these ways can both agree these are immoral the koran clearly says this other passage that unbelievers are not treated that way example the second type there are two biblical creation stories you wrong since the bible clearly describes the creation description the first day after christmas truelove served leftover turkey the second day after christmas truelove served turkey casserole that she made from leftover turkey days deleted flaming turkey wings pizza hut commercial and tlu gic bait ken arromdee arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu
alt.atheism	religion cause was islamic authority over women bill conner bil okcforum osrhe edu writes stuff deleted don have make outrageous claims about religion affecting and effecting history for the purpsoe all have point out that many claims made here are wrong and nothing validate atheism bill you seem have erroneously assumed that this board has its sole purpose the validation atheism doesn this board used discuss atheism philosophy share posters experiences regarding atheism debunk various theisms and theism whole share resources relating atheism and even socialize with others with similar views and course with the number theists who come here preach also used argue the case for atheism time have made any statement that religion was the sole cause anything what have done point out that those who make that kind claim are mistaken usually deliberately you want accuse people lying please directly the phrase deliberately mistaken rather oxymoronic credit religion with the awesome power dominate history misunderstand human nature the function religion and course history believe that those who distort history this way know exaclty what they doing and only for affect the two forms theism most often discussed here these days are christianity and islam both these claim make their followers into good people and claim that much benefit humanity has been accomplished through their faiths imho they are right the american friends service committee quaker catholic relief services bread for the world salvation army soup kitchens and mother theresa spring mind can someone with more knowledge islam supply the names some analagous islamic groups when mother theresa claims that her work outgrowth her christianity believe her her form theism ascribes her deity such benevolence toward humanity that would wrong not care for those need the point that such philosophy does have the power change the behavior individuals widespread enough can change societies the same works for the horrors history claim that christianity had little with the crusades the inquisition deny the awesome power that comes from faith absolute what seems you are doing twisting the reasonable statement that religion was never the solitary cause any evil into the unreasonable statement that religion has had evil impacts history that absurd scott sauyet ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu
alt.atheism	books edm twisto compaq com mccreary writes while the topic books has anyone else noticed that paine the age reason hard find been wanting pick copy for while but not bad enough mail order noticed though that none the bookstores seem carry thought this was supposed classic what the deal actually got entire list books written various atheist authors and went the largest bookstore area pittsburgh and couldn find any them what section the bookstore you find these kinds books you have look alternative bookstore for most them any help would appreciated can send you the list you want thanks nanci you know and are sure the author this quote please send email andrew cmu edu the fate the country does not depend what kind paper you drop into the ballot box once year but what kind man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning
alt.atheism	college atheists nyeda cnsvax uwec edu david nye writes read article about poll done students the ivy league schools which was reported that third the students indentified themselves atheists this lot higher than among the general population wonder what the reasons for this discrepancy are because they are more intelligent younger this the wave the future would guess that probably has something with the ease which ideas and thoughts are communicated college campus the real world easier for theists well people general really lock themselves into little bubble where they only see and talk those people who are the same opinion they are college you are constantly surrounded and have interact with people who have different ideas about life the universe and everything much much harder build bubble around yourself keep everyone else ideas from reaching you world where theists are forced contend with and listen atheists and theists other religions some are bound have change their beliefs over four years there nowhere run david nye nyeda cnsvax uwec edu midelfort clinic eau claire this patently absurd but whoever wishes become philosopher must learn not frightened absurdities bertrand russell nanci you know and are sure the author this quote please send email andrew cmu edu the fate the country does not depend what kind paper you drop into the ballot box once year but what kind man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article apr nic csu net davec silicon csci csusb edu dave choweller wrote article apr bnr rashid writes stuff deleted the point post was that rushdie was not being condemned solely for the words his book although this was certainly contributing factor was the whole series actions rushdie and his publishers following the publication the book and the initial media spotlight placed the book that large part led the fatwa the kind fatwa levelled against rushdie not lightly placed and there are any number anti islamic writers both within and outside the islamic world who have not had fatwas made against them here someone who adds fuel explosive situation might charged with incitement riot people die the rioting the charges against him might become even more serious how can rushdie blamed for the deaths people who are demonstrating against him the deaths should blamed the people who dealt with the demonstrations the demonstrators themselves they were violent what lengths will you justify this barbaric behaviour against rushdie once the rushdie situation exploded into the media the muslim voice the matter the book was effectively restricted short video bytes showing the dramatic highlights muslim demonstrations for every twenty newspaper magazine articles interviews etc supporting rushdie there would appear one muslim voice this person was usually selected based how dramatic and incoherent was not his knowledge islam the situation the time this approx twenty one ratio continued throughout the escalation the crisis with rushdie the central spotlight the man the moment the valiant defender everyman right free speech decoupled from responsibility aside interesting that while the hue and cry about freedom speech went some books defaming certain ethnic and religious groups continued banned here was felt that they injured the sensibilities these groups and presented false image which could promote feelings hate towards these groups for muslims this kind double standard was annoying rushdie saw this spotlight golden opportunity lash out organized islam and did with admirable verbal skill the only kind islam which rushdie finds palatable what calls secular islam islam separated from qur prophet god its legislation and most importantly from any intrusion into any political arena fine rushdie made his views known the muslim made their anger his book known the scale the whole affair erupted into global proportions was this time already political situation affecting governments well individuals the situation was serious one with far reaching political implications the centre this turmoil was rushdie throwing fuel the fire engaged personal crusade that made him oblivious any sense caution now you may feel that the person the centre worldwide storm such this has responsibility has reason exercise restraint any kind has obligation perhaps step back momentarily out the spotlight till matters calm down perhaps you even feel that justified boldly defying the anger all those who dare take umbrage his literary work matter what insult they find within perhaps you see him kind secular heroic knight mounted the his media steed doing battle with the dragon islamic fundamentalism well khomeini saw him disingeneous author who grew muslim atmosphere knew well what muslim hold dear who wrote book which mischievously uses certain literary conventions slander insult and attack islam and its most notable personalities who when faced with situation that became worldwide crisis continued with his mischief the world stage the media who even after people were injured and killed because the magnitude and emotion the situation continued his mischief instead having the good sense desist khomeini saw the crisis mischief making grand scale mischief making that grew scale the scale the crisis enlarged the deaths muslims around the world and rushdie continued media mischief even after this was the triggering factor that seemed decide khomeini putting stop the mischief the person the centre all these events was rushdie was the source the continuing mischief all media support government support was just that support the source was rushdie and his publishers who were nothing short ecstatic the publicity and were very happy see rushdie constantly the media the islamic rulings that deal with people who engage this kind grand scale mischief making was applied rushdie you attempts justification are not doing the image islam any good have made attempts justification only explanation image the chief concern muslim apologists for islam and for rushdie muslims willingly relegated themselves becoming sub culture within larger secular culture such that the secular principles and laws had precedence over the laws islam then have doubt that islam would then thought have good image principally because would and large reflect the secular image good image usually means more like your attempts totally exonerating rushdie reflect exactly the attitude that resulted the polarization brought about the crisis iran the situation was monitored for many months when rushdie kept adding fuel the flames through the free worldwide voice that the media gave him the situation was monitored more seriously when even after many deaths occured worldwide rushdie still did not desist the fatwa was pronounced when behaving like total jerk endangers lives and the jerk sees this and still insists his right behave like total jerk has the rug jerked out from under him the muslims didn make such big fuss over the book like issuing death threats and killing publishers one would have heard the fatwa came later much later rushdie didn mouth off much the media the fuss would have died down one would have been killed fatwa would have been passed the whole episode would have fizzled away
alt.atheism	who has read rushdie the satanic verses article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes yes the qur discusses this point several ways some them quite directly for example says that god were appear them there would need for faith and belief the evidence would definitive excellent why doesn she appear little weak the blind faith department besides she doesn even really need appear how about say little tip something like put your all the the dog races perhaps dream vision how know that muhammed didn just out into the desert and smoke something would person who was high write well and with such consistency afraid don know arabic have only read translations wouldn know were well written consistent though one thing the quran not and have you read arabic besides some best writing has been done under the influence shall say consciousness altering substances and how know that the scribes dictated the quran didn screw put their own little verses they have very good without destroying the beauty and literary quality text arabic text yes how know they weren very good again assuming that the quran beautfully written and why can muhammed marry more than four women when other muslim allowed muhammad did not exceed the number after the revelation regulating the number wives man could marry but before retract this point although might still say that once knew should have done something about although think the biggest insult islam that the majority its followers would want suppress book sight unseen the say some holy guy not mention murder the author agree but really true that this the case haven interviewed all muslims about this would really like this were false but can take your say what are your sources another case judging principles the basis those who claim follow them what other basis have judge system especially when can get consistent picture what islam really believe khomeini the imam the mosque mecca perhaps the guy new jersey perhaps you say should only the quran whose translation and what about things like and wherever you find idolators kill them shamim mohamed uunet noao cmcl arizona shamim shamim arizona edu take this cross and garlic here mezuzah jewish page the koran muslim and zen buddhist you your own member the league for programming freedom write lpf uunet net
alt.atheism	genocide caused theism evidence saw hour show pbs the other day about the history the jews appearently the cursades religious war agianst the muslilams the holy land sparked the widespread persecution muslilams and jews europe among the supporters the persiecution were none other than martin luther and the vatican later hitler would use luthers writings justify his own treatment the jews genocide caused theism evidence
alt.atheism	societal basis for morality article fzd news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes what basis can say that the actions another society per hitler comment are wrong ultimately rests with personal opinion opinion why does majority make right the question doesn make sense maybe would better ask what makes democracy better than for example totalitarian regim dan
alt.atheism	high times comin verdant ucs umass edu sol lightman writes theory though yet unproven that this due simple envy its not its due the fact that there are two issues here religion and religion religion personal belief system religion memetic virus people loudly proclaiming their beliefs are crossing the border from religion religion people that want save others are firmly entrenched religion memoids rule not practicing religion shut the fuck unless you discuss politely this means that the motive behind the conversation not only your self gratifying wish spread the word religion something that ultimately comes from within person and reflects their value judgements religion something that contracted from others and does not reflect the persons value judgements other than perhaps think brainwashed today religion drug believe you can discuss religion however the post that started this off was not intented discussion was more proclamation someones religion you think talking about censorship that closeminded you haven understood this don have any problem with the discussion religion its just religion that can stand
alt.atheism	high times comin rubble leland stanford edu adam heath clark writes seems very large part christianity based the notion that the right religion and that just about any other way looking the universe flat out wrong the old days had the inquisition and the burning heretics now have pat buchanan trying start some cultural war because can stand live the same country all these other non god fearing people its survival trait there are only fixed number resources people for religions inhabit the doctrines intolerance and not using birth control are devices whereby the meme the capital religion christianity gains larger share the population than its memetic competitors
alt.atheism	christian morality article apr dcs warwick simon dcs warwick simon clippingdale writes dan concerned that you are grave spiritual danger because your stubborn refusal love and accept into your heart the mighty invisible pink unicorn nice parody deleted shall pray for you fact brother cast out the demon which binds you the name the mighty invisible pink unicorn dan you must have faith then you better pray for too because believe that the mighty invisibile pink unicorn does not exist one being cannot both pink and invisible the demon should that daemon that keeps from believing and saving soul named logic bill mayne
alt.atheism	who has read rushdie the satanic verses article optima arizona edu sham arizona edu shamim zvonko mohamed writes article innknk bozo dsinc com perry dsinc com jim perry writes anyway since seem the only one following this particular line discussion wonder how many the rest the readership have read this book what are your thoughts read when first came out and liked the time still sorta kinda thought myself muslim and couldn see what the flap was all about thank you now know least that though may drugs least not the only one the writing style was little hard get used but was well worth the effort coming from similar background rushdie grew bombay muslim family and moved england grew new delhi made strong impression and used many the strange constructions indian english the yaar the end sentence butbutbut the occasional hindi phrase etc yes this took some getting used course not having indian connection knowledge hindi etc this was not trivial for did have thanks the wonders the net glossary satanic verses posted rec arts books vijay raghavan which explains lot the indian english constructions indian culture references even the islamic references jahilia submission the context the satanic verses incident etc what have only covers the first couple hundred pages but helped get into the flow the novel can mail this anyone interested anyone has portions after part they exist like get those jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	burden proof aurora engr latech edu ray engr latech edu bill ray writes make statement that god exists loves etc but way insist that you believe does that place burden proof upon you insist that god doesn exist does that place burden proof upon you give proofs only give testimony beliefs will respond proofs that you attempt disprove beliefs what your reaction people who claim they were abducted space aliens some these people say was abducted experimented etc insist that these aliens don exist the burden proof placed these people can give hard facts but can give lot testimony back their beliefs replace space aliens with elvis big foot blue unicorns and have larger percentage the population than like think about sometimes wonder reality really different experience for everone
alt.atheism	rawlins debunks creationism john king king ctron com posts whopping one liner the modern theory evolution inadequate that deserves treated matter faith francis hitching have few points make about the above posting science not based and does not consist quotes from either real alleged experts critical reasoning evidence and possible experimentation are necessary creationists frequently display massive confusion about this merely quoting both non experts and experts alike some the latter quotes are fact false and steadfastly refusing follow any kind rigorous scientific procedure this strongly suggests that their claims completely lack any scientific merit and they are aware this fatal deficiency course you may not actually creationist and this may not your real intent you have failed identify hitching and the surrounding context his statement why that hitching scientific illiterate then the quote would merely display his profound ignorance evolutionary biology creationists are frequently known quote real scientists out context and fabricate statements that they subsequently attribute legitimate scientists course you may not actually creationist and this may not your real intent evidence supporting the alleged inadequacies the modern theory evolution would much more powerful argument than contextless one line quote from unidentified nobody also important note that disproving biological evolution does not automatically prove some alternate claims any more that disproving that the earth shaped like hockey puck proves that hyperbolic paraboloid creationists seem rather fond diving head first into this logical fallacy course you may not actually creationist and this may not your real intent since evolution central virtually all modern science attack evolution either the fact the theory really represents attack science while the theory will unquestionably continue evolve the fact evolution will not ever away creationists lost the battle long ago more than years fact but are simply too willfully ignorant and irrational acknowledge the fact course you may not actually creationist and you may not really that ignorant warren kurt vonroeschlaub iastate edu asks neither nor webster has ever heard francis hitchings who like hitchings not found webster francis hitchings scientifically illiterate creationist perhaps just playing the part one who wrote quite ignorant book attacking evolution the neck the giraffe that publication quotes creationist jean sloat morton using the standard invalid creationist probability argument that proteins could not have formed chance thus not only confusing abiogenesis with evolution the two are quite independent but also concluding with non sequitur the conclusion does not follow hitchings also misquotes richard lewontin effort support creationism hitchings book was reviewed national park service ecologist david graber the los angeles times and repeated the oregonian the article was titled giraffe sticks scientific neck out too far excerpts include francis hitchings not biologist goes after darwin like mark antony after brutus flips from scientific reasoning mysticism and pseudo science with the sinuosity snake oil salesman suggests mystical organizing principle life using the similarity organs different creatures evidence sic note that the last statement above actually evidence for evolution not against john king quoting from this reviewed book wouldn surprise much also interesting that king had nothing add only posted quote uucp uunet tektronix sail mikec cranford uunet tektronix sail labs tek com mikec principal troll arpa mikec sail labs tek com relay net resident skeptic csnet mikec sail labs tek com teklabs tektronix
alt.atheism	genocide caused theism evidence article dvi mailer fsu edu dekorte dirac scri fsu edu stephen dekorte writes saw hour show pbs the other day about the history the jews appearently the cursades religious war agianst the muslilams the holy land sparked the widespread persecution muslilams and jews europe among the supporters the persiecution were none other than martin luther and the vatican later hitler would use luthers writings justify his own treatment the jews genocide caused theism evidence heck remember reading quote luther something like jews should shot like deer and course much catholic doctrine for centuries was extremely anti semitic are you sure that your truth and your justice are worth more than the truths and justices other centuries simone beauvoir where there certainty that rises above all doubt and withstands all critique karl jaspers rice university will rice college
alt.atheism	political atheists article vinnkn gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes wait are talking about ethics morals here the distinction important yes well make ethics deal with individuals morals deal with groups well our moral system seems mimic the natural one number ways please describe these number ways detail then explain the any contradictions that may arise just look how human behavior mimics animal behavior couldn even begin list all the similarities many the dissimilarities are due our high intelligence please describe these number ways detail then explain any contradictions that may arise don know what wrong possible for humans survive for long time the wild yes possible but difficult humans are social animal and that cause our success define difficult don understand what you don understand the sentence yes possible but difficult humans survived the wild for hundreds thousands years noted earlier lack mating such abstinence homosexuality isn really destructive the system worst neutral every member the species was homosexual this wouldn destructive the survival the species most animals that exhibit homosexuality are actually bisexual answer the question keith homosexuality detrimental the survival the species kcochran nyx edu tsakc thoughts posts ideas responsibility beer pizza
alt.atheism	bayesian statistics theism and atheism article apr dcs warwick simon dcs warwick simon clippingdale writes article quei horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article apr dcs warwick simon dcs warwick simon clippingdale writes write imagine that alterian dollars turn your bank account every month suppose further that this money being paid you your big hearted alterian benefactor bug alterian atm let suppose that this true dichotomy trouble alterius different universe that observations alterius are possible except for the banks you couldn possibly afford now let examine the case for there evidence whatsoever that there any such thing big hearted alterian benefactor however exists not exists the grounds that lack evidence for evidence against when have partition like that dismiss hypothesis turning therefore also find evidence support that hypothesis the same grounds before dismiss hypothesis the problem with this that have dismissed all the possible hypotheses and even though know construction that the money arrives every month have proven that can because have dismissed all its potential causes that extremely poor argument and here why premise this money being paid you either your big hearted alterian benefactor bug alterian atm thus each monthly appearance the bucks should happen observation alterius and construction evidence for the existence either the benefactor the bug the atm premise observations alterius are possible except for the banks you couldn possibly afford you forgot include this premise actually premise the cardinality the set possible observations alterius one this clearly contradictory the first not you state properly trouble the basis premise you say that there can evidence either the benefactor the bug but the first premise leads the conclusion that the appearance the bucks should happen evidence for the existence either the benefactor the bug voila screaming contradiction with highlights but strawman argument there only evidence for oneof benefactor bug observation distinguish benefactor from bug possible that not evidence for bug and neither evidence for benefactor nor true say that this hypothetical universe appears exactly there were benefactor bug two statements both would false this still contradictory reduces alterian dosh arriving account due benefactor bug this not evidence for benefactor neither evidence for bug meaning that doesn lend more weight one than the other therefore evidence can exist for benefactor and evidence can exist for bug but relies shift meaning from when you say paraphrased that this not evidence for benefactor for example what you mean that more evidence for benefactor than for bug yes that what mean however you shifted the meaning evidence for benefactor that now means absolute evidence for benefactor rather than relative evidence for benefactor bug not really meant evidence that would tend one over the other think this just communications problem what trying say clumsy way that while buy your theory far relates theism making predictions prayer your rapture example don buy your use occam razor all cases where example one couldn dismiss benefactor bug the grounds simplicity one these necessary explain the dosh brought the one one dismissal process show that would wrong from what you saying this post seems you agree and talking cross purposes still contradiction some sums may help with benefactor bug dosh arrives account implies assuming that either the benefactor bug which responsible the bucks arrive but not both then but implies that and this isn what meant and with necessarily new observation already seen the dosh change those estimates was trying say again clumsy way that would wrong assign probability either these and that precisely what use the razor does the case gods gods are one class hypothesis there are many others belonging set hypotheses one which necessary explain something which otherwise would not satisfactorily explained can thrown out retained grounds non rational preference not science statistics alternatively one could chuck out retain the lot the grounds that the answer can known that the notional probability estimates are effectively useless being equal agnosticism weak atheism they when the set filled the universe caused where gods pink unicorns nothing etc and observation tends one conclusion over the other exactly the point was making think don throw out any these contrary your assertion above that some people simon and they think they are doing excellent science sole point was that they aren only observations which directly contradict the hypothesis where can cause zero after finite number observations only this case get throw any the hypotheses out exactly point though may have been unclear you said the diametric opposite which guess the source confusion was merely trying illustrate the incorrectness doing what trying say that while you are correct say that absence evidence can sometimes evidence absence this does not hold true for all perhaps any versions theism and isn true that those for which does not hold can discarded using the razor the contrary those for which does not hold are exactly those which can discarded using the razor see post the other branch this thread then you seem guilty the contradiction you accuse the razor holds for gods then holds for all like hypotheses which means that you assigning for all though already established that not correct when sum over all simply put anyone who claims have viable proof the existence non existence gods whether inductive best mistaken and worst barking mad luckily make such claim and have specifically said much numerous occasions you wouldn constructing strawman here would you frank although that doesn course rule out being barking mad any case could barking mad spare time with apologies cleese but think you miss the point once again when say that something evidence against hypothesis that doesn imply that observation the said something necessarily falsifies the hypothesis reducing the estimate data zero reduces this quantity still evidence against got that talking about the case when you clearly correct when and not constructing strawman though certainly possible that misunderstood what you saying however any standards system that says when gods are highly unlikely and when gods can dismissed using the razor system purporting inductive proof that gods either don exist are unnecessary explain any all phenomena experience systems such this including those which purport prove that gods exist always contain fallacy upon close examination that not what you saying then please put straight frank dwyer not hatching that odwyer sse from hens evelyn conlon
alt.atheism	asimov stamp battin cyclops iucf indiana edu laurence gene battin writes apart from the suggestion that appeared the letters column skeptical inquirer recently has there been any further mention about possible asimov commemorative stamp this idea hasn been followed does anyone know what needs done get this happen think that its great idea should start petition something believe that there year period from time death until person can commemorative stamp was broken once for lyndon johnson think but other than that has held for awhile course can still start now the elvis stamp was petitioned for ages and things really moved once got past the year anniversary his death carl christensen dept computer science christen astro ocis temple edu temple university curiouser and curiouser philadelphia usa
alt.atheism	where are they now article horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article apr nuscc nus cmtan iss nus tan chade meng dan writes leaving june that because going back university alt atheism banned there stupid theist intolerance sad isn anybody has any idea how can circumvent this problem frank solution deleted you have access telnet contact nyx edu public access unix system completly free and all you need for access verifiable form think requires notarized copy picture check some such kcochran nyx edu tsakc thoughts posts ideas responsibility beer pizza
alt.atheism	age reason was who has read rushdie sandvik newton apple com kent sandvik writes this the story kent the archetype finn that lives the bay area and tried purchase thomas paine age reason this man was driving around staceys books inc well cleanlighted place daltons various other places when asked for this book the well educated american book store assistants most placed asked him check out the thriller section then they said that his book has not been published yet but they should receive the book soon some places the assistants bluntly said that they don know such author that not well known living author they don keep copies his books such the life and times america years after the revolution similar note good friend mine worked clerk chain bookstore several his peers were amazing one woman particular customer asked her they had the autobiography benjamin franklin who was her first question then still alive then fiction non fiction finally friend intervened and showed the guy where was makes one wonder what the standards employment are scott sauyet ssauyet eagle wesleyan edu
alt.atheism	strong weak atheism rusnews mantis mathew writes did that faq ever got modified define strong atheists not those who assert the nonexistence god but those who assert that they believe the nonexistence god word yes mathew mathew could you let know when this happened can see version date possible try save the faqs once while but otherwise ignore their regular postings wouldn generally notice such change and like stay current thanks scott
alt.atheism	problem with omnipotence recall discussion had heard years ago went something like this the problem with omnipotence least perceive personified the christian god ideal that potentially contradictory manifestation such god truly infinite power can god place limits upon itself some stuff can recall then some other questions think recall correctly can god unmake itself can god make itself assuming doesn yet exist has god has always existed necessary for observer bind all gods potential quantum states into reality was god nothing more than primordial force nature that existed during the earliest stages universal inflationary creation god vacuum fluctuation given great enough energy density could create god would that make god and god something else some more stuff don recall concerning creating god followed god self aware necessary that god self aware god living entity necessay that god living entity god unchanging does evolve any comments post them that others might benefit from the open inquiry and resulting discussion kyle
alt.atheism	atheism 
alt.atheism	you will all hell article pharaoh cyborg martin pharaoh cyborg martin gorman writes jsn psuvm psu edu writes you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation fuck off actually just think confused going hell because gay not becuase don believe god wonder that means can come tammy deans picnic kcochran nyx edu tsakc thoughts posts ideas responsibility beer pizza because the daddy that why
alt.atheism	requests article qllg mailer fsu edu mayne pipe fsu edu william mayne writes article pww spac rice edu pww spacsun rice edu peter walker writes didn the church get lightning rods banned several european countries the eighteenth century because was widely believed that they interfered with god striking down blasphemers seem remember that this was more common eastern europe don know about eastern europe but according bertrand russell writing science and mysticism think though could have been another book said that preachers colonial boston attributed earthquake god wrath over people putting lightning rods which they had been preaching against interference with god will being deprived lightning bolts method get sinners evidently resorted sterner measures smilies not making this sure you are not after the san francisco earthquake couple years ago there was flurry traffic talk religion misc about how this was the result the notorious homo this that and other the city the fact that the earthquake was actually down the road santa cruz watsonville didn seem phase them any jon
alt.atheism	little too satanic kent sandvik and jon livesey made essentially the same response this time kent article gets the reply agree but this started one particular point time and don know when this starting point accurately copied scriptures actually happened this begs the question whether ever started perhaps because accuracy was always intention even worse the events were not written eye witness accounts high probability looking possible dates when the first gospels were ready then have take into account all the problems with information forwarded with the telephone metaphor indeed makes little difference you have eyewitnesses people one step away reporters you will said earlier the telephone metaphor innately bad because the purpose game telephone contrary the aims writing these sorts texts also would point out that the standards generally asserted this group the distinction between eyewitnesses and others hollow since nobody can shown eyewitness indeed even shown the author the text there evidence that the original texts either the the are largely lost over time sea errors corrections additions and deletions the case the the evidence strongly the other direction the textus and the nestle aland text not differ more than low level significance reasonable assume similar situation for the based the model wingate the peace god peace but strife closed the sod mangoe umd edu yet brothers pray for but one thing tove mangoe the marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	societally acceptable behavior article news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes qvh tinnsg citation ksu ksu edu yohan citation ksu ksu edu jonathan newton writes article qgm news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes merely question for the basis morality moral ethical behavior societally acceptable behavior disagree with these what society thinks should irrelevant what the individual decides all that important this doesn seem right want kill you can because that what decide sounds though you are confused between what want and what think morally right jon
alt.atheism	why rushdie writings are unappreciated article quc tut lehtori tut aario sami writes edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes article jqd mdb blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes has been asked why counter fatwa has been issued against khomenei condemnation rushdies because his satanic verses the reason basically that the satanic verses from which rushdie took his title are serious matter not played around with anyone who cares about islam this shouldn matter that your opinion which sorry say irrelevant gregg this guy sounds more than little borg ish vell this perfectly normal behaviour vor vogon you know jon
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law just received some new information regarding the issue bcci and whether islamic bank etc now about post under the heading bcci look for there fred rice darice yoyo monash edu
alt.atheism	why boyd acsu buffalo edu daniel boyd writes the bible such incredible proof christianity then why aren the muslims the hindus convinced the qur such incredible proof islam then why aren the hindus the christians convinced god exists why aren atheists convinced tan chade meng yes sir have only one question singapore cmtan iss nus what going
alt.atheism	christianity logic was xtian morality article eastman uucp dps nasa kodak com writes simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now once heard arguement from xtian friend similar this christianity higher logic athiest like will not able understand your atheist logic very low only thru faith can understand the higher logic god asked him what this higher logic his answer don know this the posting above highlights one the worst things about xtainity abundantly clear both atheists xtains that their believe both illogical irrational their tactics therefore disregard logic rationality altogether silly excuses such the ones above and those such how can trust science science was invented man only goes further show the weakness their religion country where xtainity was and still rapidly growing xtains never try convert people appealing their brains senses they know would fruitless act given the irrational nature their faith they would wait until person distress then they would comfort him her and addict them their emotional opium never life had met person who converted xtainity coz reasonable rationality has place xtainity see xtian arguement against reason above the unenlightened one tan chade meng the wise man tells his wife that understands her singapore cmtan iss nus the fool tries prove the unenlightened one tan chade meng the wise man tells his wife that understands her singapore cmtan iss nus the fool tries prove
alt.atheism	some thoughts article madhausc kip netcom com madhaus netcom com maddi hausmann writes healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes tammy see maddi trimmed healy well you going have practice but you getting the hang soon going have give you new nickname try these for size tammy lucky seven healy tammy pass the falafel healy tammy healy tammy learning doing healy the thing trademarked don know charles lazarus dead alive but careful because with name like lazarus might rise again just start lawsuit dean kaflowitz knew architect once who swear was employed design the signs for the toys and kids stores the signs the things they stick over the store big pole they can seen from the highway what job all those hours school studying architect you can tell them move the pole ten feet closer the highway
alt.atheism	some thoughts article aec cbnewsj att com decay cbnewsj att com dean kaflowitz writes the thing trademarked don know charles lazarus dead alive but careful because with name like lazarus might rise again just start lawsuit the not trademarked but the backwards believe speaking proofs god the funniest one have ever seen was term paper handed freshman she wrote god must exist because wouldn mean make believe exists really doesn this argument really much worse than the ontological proofs the existence god provided anselm and descartes among others raymond smullyan from and other philosophical fantasies
alt.atheism	fundamental beliefs sda article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes was asked post list the sda church basic beliefs the sda church has always been reluctant formalize creed the usual sense word however the powers that the church deemed neccessary publish summary basic sda beliefs may ask why they are afraid speaking proofs god the funniest one have ever seen was term paper handed freshman she wrote god must exist because wouldn mean make believe exists really doesn this argument really much worse than the ontological proofs the existence god provided anselm and descartes among others raymond smullyan from and other philosophical fantasies
alt.atheism	cults religions jgreen trumpet calpoly edu james thomas green writes religion cult which those power belong actually they all bull shit graeme nattress ncl hitler nibor from the planet vashir the galactic shape changing psychopath john the tomorrow people hitler last secret
alt.atheism	you will all hell article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes article apr mnemosyne edu kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran writes from kcochran nyx edu keith justified and ancient cochran subject you will all hell date sun apr gmt article pharaoh cyborg martin pharaoh cyborg martin gorman writes jsn psuvm psu edu writes you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation fuck off actually just think confused going hell because gay not becuase don believe god wonder that means can come tammy deans picnic course you can come said all posters are invited and didn put homosexual clause bring some munchies and join the party can imagine dean objecting either knowing keith expect bring the leather accessories better oil well leather cracks when dries dean kaflowitz
alt.atheism	poisoning the well was islamic genocide article rbpq ibg horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer writes article bbacbc dbstu dbstu benedikt rosenau writes the way that why consider you theist points consisting rhetorical fallacy unsupported claims and demonstrable falsehoods deleted wonder that don see any detail for this claim good remember that you have answered the statement that you are theist another correspondent with that you are not member denomination either stupidity attempt trick answer not unlike the rest your arguments roseneau have little patience with people who tell what believe and who call liar when disagree position not only know what that believe but say agnostic extremely wary the way you use words like this case there are broader definitions gods used persons who are considered themselves and others theists have pointed that post you use one them your use definitions seems rest the assumption because moral objective absolute the other buzz words you are fond everybody will know and there need define more exactly and user has shown recently the easiest way dispell you ask you for definitions you are course free speculate motives for objecting seeming irrational bigotry you wish but the flaws which point out your arguments stand their own merits since you are the only one seeing them and many correspondents point the flaws your reasoning respectively discussing can say impressed benedikt
alt.atheism	some thoughts article lkz blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes article briggs ccresources utas edu briggs postoffice utas edu william briggs writes wasn carpenter anyway that beside the point think the fact that more compelling fulfilling the prophecies when the prophecies include him getting killed the most agonizing possible way this nonsense can think lot more agonizing ways get killed fatal cancer for instance anyone else have some more maybe can make list actually find the stuff about being carpenter more interesting there independent source for this assertion all from the christian bible there any record all anything built table house some stairs norm abrams says the real test carpenter skill building stairs with hand tools did leave any plans behind for say kitchen counters and cabinets did build his own cross did use pressure treated lumber gotta use that pressure treated anywhere that wood meets concrete but holds better anyway for mose outdoor applications keep seeing these bumper stickers that say boss jewish carpenter but they always the back ford escorts and real carpenter apprentice would probably drive pickup out for verification that really was carpenter dean kaflowitz sometimes like get away from the shack catfish ain pretty but they don talk back goin fishin again goin fishin again and good friends sure goin fishin again
alt.atheism	some thoughts article apr daffy wisc edu mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes article lkz blaze jhu edu arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes can think lot more agonizing ways get killed fatal cancer for instance anyone else have some more maybe can make list how about dying blood clot very bad place kidney stones with complete blockage
alt.atheism	some thoughts article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article aec cbnewsj att com decay cbnewsj att com dean kaflowitz writes the thing trademarked don know charles lazarus dead alive but careful because with name like lazarus might rise again just start lawsuit the not trademarked but the backwards believe yup think you right mistake now how make backwards using computer keyboard bet the gods know how this alt atheism after all tell you what all start coming out backwards when type from now become believer and that not asking for miracles asked for miracle ask for real miracle like for pat buchanan become out the closet drag queen well maybe that wouldn miraculous but think look fabulous feather boa and sequined hat like mia farrow wore gatsby dean kaflowitz
alt.atheism	all mary fault article briggs ccresources utas edu briggs postoffice utas edu william briggs writes deletion lucky for them that the baby didn have any obvious deformities could just see now mary gets pregnant out wedlock save face she and joseph say that was god that got her pregnant and then the baby turns out deformed even worse stillborn they have lot explaining few points guys oops guy and gal but use the term guy asexually has the same sort conspiracy ever occurred since mean there must have been dozen times the past two thousand years when would have been opportune time for messiah born has there guy running around switzerland who claims have been conceived similarly his mother says the same his father said bit surprised but anyway there have been lot messiahs and many have had similar story about their birth their death list messiahs could quite interesting wouldn you feel bad you turned out wrong and the conception christ was via god can just imagine your faces mary asks you you ever had child yourself would wonder why omnipotent god pulls such stunts instead providing evidence for everyone check and the whole question absurd wouldn you feel bad you find out that stones are sentient and that you have stepped them all your life and wouldn you feel bad when you see the proof that jesus was just plot satan they wanted save image they could have done what joseph planned the first place have quite wedding and equally quite divorce think was quite easy under jewish law that regard they would have been pretty dumb think conspiracy like the one you outlined that they bringing attention themselves messiah appearances were like royal scandals zero israel see the part acts when the sandhedrin are discussing what about the growth the new church one wise guy said leave alone and what says nothing can stop and isn then will just fizzle out anyway you forgotten the pride factor didn fizzle the church mean the argument fallacy like thanks for reading this far the end letter most religions claim that they won fizzle because they contain some eternal truth does christianity since there are old religions wonder find old religions that have that they would last roll twelve dice calculate the chance for the result argue that there must something special about the result because event with chance could hardly happen chance only feel elevated because you have participated letting that special event take place benedikt
alt.atheism	thoughts christians bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes robert beauchine wrote that praying the young preying the young comes later when the bright eyed little altar boy finds out what the priest really wears under that chasible does this statement further the atheist cause some way surely not intended wit surely was intended wit the way which atheist cause were you referring bill kevin marshall computer science department virginia tech marshall csugrad edu blacksburg virginia
alt.atheism	room for metaphor article bakerlj augustana edu bakerlj augustana edu lloyd baker writes what want response giving the pros and cons metaphorical religious language could atheist accept this view without giving the foundamentals what believes could atheist accept usage which religious literature tradition viewed metaphorical way course this essentially what with homer with other concepts such fate luck free will however there remains the question whether the religious literature say christianity particularly good set metaphors for the world today also entirely unclear and quite unlikely that one could take contemporary religion like that and divorce the metaphoric potential from the literalism and absolutism carries now many cases jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	moraltiy was political atheists article cmninnb gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes pardon trying apply human terms non humans that right you are basically stating that morality can only deal with humans because only humans are sentient enough moral that you say that morality can only deal with intentions have never said that only humans are the only beings which are sufficiently sentient have intentions fact have explicitly said that perfectly happy consider that some animals are capable forming intentions what objecting considering programmed instinctive behaviour have moral significance since seems such behaviour does not involve intention think that even someone not conscious alternative this does not prevent his behavior from being moral sure you think this you say how about trying convince think that moral act moral whether not the implementor thinks that not the point the point whether the implementor thinks all the issue not whether thinking produces opinion opinion but whether thinking takes place period offered four times think accept your definition you allow ascribe moral significence the orbital motion the planets hmm perhaps you can ascribe could say that many human actions are not natural and thus don follow natural morality since humans are part nature are not all human actions natural perhaps you going throw definition natural that will allow describe some actions natural and some not natural what the definition other than those death which surround mating rituals other animals just don kill each other within species that often they sure they multiple posters have show you sharks for example eat wounded sharks personally seen cats eat their newborn are you some kind denial people give you example after example and you off the air for week and then pop claiming that never happened very strange but why don animals kill each other see what mean here again what have write tailor made faq just for schneider jon
alt.atheism	you will all hell this hell hasn anyone noticed consensual reality special case
alt.atheism	islam and scientific predictions was genocide caused atheism article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes deletion god the one who created the night the day the sun and the moon each travelling orbit with its own motion qur deletion well that certainly different but looks there translation found for everything the way most surprised hear that night and day move orbit thought about this too some translations refer only the latter two objects being orbit but bucaille translation seems indicate the night and the day travelling orbit too perhaps this can understood when one looks from the earth reference frame from this reference frame the day and the night would appear orbit the earth travelling from east west this from the reference frame when the earth still well yes but that belongs the other group there interpretation found for everything however allowing any form interpretation reduces the information the text interprteted zero the way have checked the quote and think the lines preceding those quoted above are more interesting where mountains are set earth order immobilize the earth where the skies heavens are referred well supported the lines given above are after edition maybe this what meant the above just possibility and that the sun travels orbit without saying that earth does too sounds geocentric will see can find out more about this but still not geocentric that sun and moon move and the earth immobile sounds geocentric benedikt
alt.atheism	cruel was political atheists article emjinnmk gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes but this just shows then that painful execution not considered cruel and unusual punishment this shows that cruel used the constitution does not refer whether not the punishment causes physical pain rather must different meaning don think although some forms execution are painful the electric chair looks particularly think the pain relatively short lived drawing and quartering the other hand looks very painful and the victim wouldn die right away bleed death imagine what have now integral over pain time get lash you with wet noodle for ever but only get cut you with power saw quick about jon
alt.atheism	alt atheism faq atheist resources archive name atheism resources alt atheism archive name resources last modified april version atheist resources addresses atheist organizations usa freedom from religion foundation darwin fish bumper stickers and assorted other atheist paraphernalia are available from the freedom from religion foundation the write ffrf box madison telephone evolution designs evolution designs sell the darwin fish fish symbol like the ones christians stick their cars but with feet and the word darwin written inside the deluxe moulded plastic fish postpaid the write evolution designs laurel canyon north hollywood people the san francisco bay area can get darwin fish from lynn gold try mailing figmo netcom com for net people who lynn directly the price per fish set free atheist stickers shirts and books write set free box garden grove american atheist press aap publish various atheist books critiques the bible lists biblical contradictions and one such book the bible handbook ball and foote american atheist press isbn edition bible contradictions absurdities atrocities immoralities contains ball foote the bible contradicts itself aap based the king james version the bible write american atheist press box austin cameron road austin telephone fax prometheus books sell books including haught holy horrors see below write east amherst street buffalo new york telephone alternate address which may newer older prometheus books glenn drive buffalo african americans for humanism organization promoting black secular humanism and uncovering the history black freethought they publish quarterly newsletter aah examiner write norm allen african americans for humanism box buffalo united kingdom rationalist press association national secular society islington high street holloway road london london british humanist association south place ethical society lamb conduit passage conway hall london red lion square london fax the national secular society publish the freethinker monthly magazine founded germany ibka internationaler bund der konfessionslosen und atheisten postfach berlin germany ibka publish journal miz materialien und informationen zur zeit politisches journal der konfessionslosesn und atheisten hrsg ibka miz vertrieb postfach berlin germany for atheist books write ibdk internationaler ucherdienst der konfessionslosen postfach hannover germany telephone books fiction thomas disch the santa claus compromise short story the ultimate proof that santa exists all characters and events are fictitious any similarity living dead gods well walter miller canticle for leibowitz one gem this post atomic doomsday novel the monks who spent their lives copying blueprints from saint leibowitz filling the sheets paper with ink and leaving white lines and letters edgar pangborn davy post atomic doomsday novel set clerical states the church for example forbids that anyone produce describe use any substance containing atoms philip dick philip dick dick wrote many philosophical and thought provoking short stories and novels his stories are bizarre times but very approachable wrote mainly but wrote about people truth and religion rather than technology although often believed that had met some sort god remained sceptical amongst his novels the following are some relevance galactic pot healer fallible alien deity summons group earth craftsmen and women remote planet raise giant cathedral from beneath the oceans when the deity begins demand faith from the earthers pot healer joe fernwright unable comply polished ironic and amusing novel maze death noteworthy for its description technology based religion valis the schizophrenic hero searches for the hidden mysteries gnostic christianity after reality fired into his brain pink laser beam unknown but possibly divine origin accompanied his dogmatic and dismissively atheist friend and assorted other odd characters the divine invasion god invades earth making young woman pregnant she returns from another star system unfortunately she terminally ill and must assisted dead man whose brain wired hour easy listening music margaret atwood the handmaid tale story based the premise that the congress mysteriously assassinated and fundamentalists quickly take charge the nation set right again the book the diary woman life she tries live under the new christian theocracy women right own property revoked and their bank accounts are closed sinful luxuries are outlawed and the radio only used for readings from the bible crimes are punished retroactively doctors who performed legal abortions the old world are hunted down and hanged atwood writing style difficult get used first but the tale grows more and more chilling goes various authors the bible this somewhat dull and rambling work has often been criticized however probably worth reading only that you know what all the fuss about exists many different versions make sure you get the one true version books non fiction peter rosa vicars christ bantam press although rosa seems christian even catholic this very enlighting history papal immoralities adulteries fallacies etc german translation gottes erste diener die dunkle seite des papsttums droemer knaur michael martin atheism philosophical justification temple university press philadelphia usa detailed and scholarly justification atheism contains outstanding appendix defining terminology and usage this necessarily tendentious area argues both for negative atheism the non belief the existence god and also for positive atheism the belief the non existence god includes great refutations the most challenging arguments for god particular attention paid refuting contempory theists such platinga and swinburne pages isbn hardcover paperback also available the case against christianity temple university press comprehensive critique christianity which considers the best contemporary defences christianity and ultimately demonstrates that they are unsupportable and incoherent pages isbn james turner without god without creed the johns hopkins university press baltimore usa subtitled the origins unbelief america examines the way which unbelief whether agnostic atheistic became mainstream alternative world view focusses the period and while considering france and britain the emphasis american and particularly new england developments neither religious history secularization atheism without god without creed rather the intellectual history the fate single idea the belief that god exists pages isbn hardcover paper george seldes editor the great thoughts ballantine books new york usa dictionary quotations different kind concentrating statements and writings which explicitly implicitly present the person philosophy and world view includes obscure and often suppressed opinions from many people for some popular observations traces the way which various people expressed and twisted the idea over the centuries quite number the quotations are derived from cardiff what great men think religion and noyes views religion pages isbn paper richard swinburne the existence god revised edition clarendon paperbacks oxford this book the second volume trilogy that began with the coherence theism and was concluded with faith and reason this work swinburne attempts construct series inductive arguments for the existence god his arguments which are somewhat tendentious and rely upon the imputation late century western christian values and aesthetics god which supposedly simple can conceived were decisively rejected mackie the miracle theism the revised edition the existence god swinburne includes appendix which makes somewhat incoherent attempt rebut mackie mackie the miracle theism oxford this posthumous volume contains comprehensive review the principal arguments for and against the existence god ranges from the classical philosophical positions descartes anselm berkeley hume through the moral arguments newman kant and sidgwick the recent restatements the classical theses plantinga and swinburne also addresses those positions which push the concept god beyond the realm the rational such those kierkegaard kung and philips well replacements for god such lelie axiarchism the book delight read less formalistic and better written than martin works and refreshingly direct when compared with the hand waving swinburne james haught holy horrors illustrated history religious murder and madness prometheus books looks religious persecution from ancient times the present day and not only christians library congress catalog card number norm allen african american humanism anthology see the listing for african americans for humanism above gordon stein anthology atheism and rationalism prometheus books anthology covering wide range subjects including the devil evil and morality and the history freethought comprehensive bibliography edmund cohen the mind the bible believer prometheus books study why people become christian fundamentalists and what effect has them george smith atheism the case against god prometheus books describes the positions atheism theism and agnosticism reviews many the arguments used favour the existence god concludes with assessment the impact god people lives net resources there small mail based archive server mantis which carries archives old alt atheism moderated articles and assorted other files for more information send mail archive server mantis saying help send atheism index and will mail back reply mathew
alt.atheism	alt atheism faq overview for new readers archive name atheism overview alt atheism archive name overview last modified april version overview welcome alt atheism and alt atheism moderated this the first series regular postings aimed new readers the newsgroups many groups controversial nature have noticed that new readers often come with the same questions mis statements misconceptions and post them the net addition people often request information which has been posted time and time again order try and cut down this the alt atheism groups have series five regular postings under the following titles alt atheism faq overview for new readers alt atheism faq introduction atheism alt atheism faq frequently asked questions faq alt atheism faq constructing logical argument alt atheism faq atheist resources this article number please read numbers and before posting the others are entirely optional you are new usenet you may also find helpful read the newsgroup news announce newusers the articles titled primer how work with the usenet community answers frequently asked questions about usenet and hints writing style for usenet are particularly relevant questions concerning how news works are best asked news newusers questions you are unable find any the articles listed above see the finding stuff section below credits these files could not have been written without the assistance the many readers alt atheism and alt atheism moderated particular like thank the following people kck cmu edu karl kluge perry dsinc com jim perry netoprwa ncsuvm ncsu edu wayne aiken chpetk gdr bath toby kelsey jkp hut jyrki kuoppala geoff arnold east sun com geoff arnold torkel sics torkel franzen kmldorf utdallas edu george kimeldorf roe quads uchicago edu greg roelofs arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee madhaus netcom com maddi hausmann psuvm psu edu john johnson dgraham bmers bnr douglas graham mayne open fsu edu william mayne ajr bigbird hri com andy rosen stoesser ira uka achim stoesser bosullvn unix tcd bryan sullivan lippard ccit arizona edu james lippard rigel tamu edu baum ydobyns phoenix princeton edu york dobyns schroede sdsc edu wayne schroeder baldwin csservera usna navy mil baldwin nibby unhh unh edu dana nibby dempsey kodak com richard dempsey jmunch hertz elee calpoly edu john david munch pdc dcs paul crowley mips complang tuwien richard zach tycchow math mit edu tim chow simon dcs warwick simon clippingdale phimanen helsinki pekka himanen and countless others forgotten these articles are free truly free you may copy them and distribute them anyone you wish however please send any changes corrections the author and please not post copies the articles alt atheism does nobody any good have multiple versions the same document floating around the network finding stuff all the faq files should somewhere your news system here are some suggestions what you can find them check the newsgroup alt atheism look for subject lines starting with alt atheism faq check the newsgroup news answers for the same subject lines you don find anything steps your news system isn set correctly and you may wish tell your system administrator about the problem you have anonymous ftp access connect rtfm mit edu the directory pub usenet alt atheism and you find the latest versions the faq files there ftp way copying files between networked computers you need help using getting started with ftp send mail mail server rtfm mit edu with send usenet news answers ftp list faq the body there are other sites which also carry news answers postings the article introduction the news answers newsgroup carries list these sites the article posted regularly news answers you don have ftp send mail mail server rtfm mit edu consisting the following lines send usenet news answers finding sources send usenet alt atheism faq send usenet alt atheism introduction send usenet alt atheism logic send usenet alt atheism resources penultimate resort send mail mail server mantis consisting the following lines send atheism faq faq txt send atheism faq logic txt send atheism faq intro txt send atheism faq resource txt and our poor overworked modems will try and send you copy the files there other stuff too interesting commands try are help and send atheism index last resort mail mathew mantis post article the newsgroup asking how you can get the faq files you should only this you tried the above methods and they failed not nice clutter the newsgroup people mailboxes with requests for files better than posting without reading the faq though for instance people whose email addresses get mangled transit and who don have ftp will probably need assistance obtaining the faq files mathew
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality sandvik sandvik kent apple com sandvik newton apple com kent sandvik writes article markp avignon markp avignon mark pundurs wrote you take lsd and skews your perception reality you come down and your perceptions unskew never taken lsd but read about the strange lifes and times the ashbury heights culture something that was usually profound was the way these lsd trippers mentioned that after their first trip they changed their view the world other words taking lsd would change their reference frames which would indicate that deep changes due let say rewiring the brain temporarily will indeed change frames and this leads the statement that there solid reference frame the lsd trippers modified their relative view much the haight ashbury crowd probably had pre existing dissatisfactions with their lives dissatisfactions ameliorated mumbo jumbo about new realities the only change experienced after lsd was gain the knowledge that didn enjoy how lsd twisted perception mark pundurs any resemblance between opinions and those wolfram research inc purely coincidental
alt.atheism	genocide caused theism evidence apr gmt bobbe vice robert beauchaine yayg said execellent examples luther insane rantings deleted gee sooooo surprised that they don teach this part his ideology high schools today mccreary edm twisto compaq com were not for laughter there would tao
alt.atheism	thoughts christians wed apr gmt sandvik newton apple com kent sandvik wrote article rgkb darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu conner questioning the blissful afterlife reason why many joined the early xian church well remember jacoby mythmaker talks about this cite one source but not sure all christians have read this book addition social experiences from being raised and educated lutheran having lot christian friends and even have played two christian rock bands you mean hyam maccoby the mythmaker mike mcangus the truth still the truth mam mouse cmhnet org even you choose ignore some the old sig viruses are still the best
alt.atheism	death penalty was political atheists tue apr gmt bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner wrote this fascinating atheists argue for abortion defend homosexuality means population control insist that the only values are biological and condemn war and capital punishment according benedikt something contardictory cannot exist which this case means atheists suppose what atheists are you talking about imnsho abortion the womans choice homosexual sex the choice the people involved war sometimes necessary this leaves capital punishment oppose capital punishemnt because mistakes can happen yes this thread went around with resolution recently far poplulation control think contraception and education are the best courses action would like understand how atheist can object war excellent means controlling population growth capital punishment sorry but the logic escapes that because you are again making the assumption that all atheists have some specific mindset and why just capital punishment what being questioned here the propriety killing punishment what the basis the ecomplaint mistakes can happen bill and could the victim such mistake mike mcangus the truth still the truth mam mouse cmhnet org even you choose ignore some the old sig viruses are still the best
alt.atheism	americans and evolution tue apr gmt bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner wrote robert singleton bobs thnext mit edu wrote sure isn mutually exclusive but lends weight increases notional running estimates the posterior probability the atheist pitch the partition and thus necessarily reduces the same quantity the theist pitch this because the divine component falls prey ockham razor the phenomenon being satisfactorily explained without and there being independent evidence any such component more detail the next post occam razor not law nature way analyzing argument even interesting how often cited here and what end seems odd that religion simultaneously condemned being primitive simple minded and unscientific anti intellectual and childish and yet again condemned being too complex occam razor the scientific explanation things being much more straightforeward and apparently simpler cute characterization bill however there inconsistency between the two statements even one believes that religion primitive simple minded and unscientific anti intellectual and childish one can still hold the view that religion also adds unnecessary level complexity the explanation the ideas themselves don have complex before being excised occam razor they only have add unnecessarily the overall complexity the description which which the non essential and how you know think the non essential part explanatory system one that adds predictive capability the system considering that even scientists don fully comprehend science due its complexity and diversity maybe william occam has performed lobotomy kept the frontal lobe and thrown everything else away huh this all very confusing sure one you will straighten out tough watch your freudian slip showing mike mcangus the truth still the truth mam mouse cmhnet org even you choose ignore some the old sig viruses are still the best
alt.atheism	christian morality apr gmt dps nasa kodak com dan schaertel wrote article vice ico tek com bobbe vice ico tek com robert beauchaine writes yet still not believer god not concerned with disposition why beneath him provide with the evidence would require believe the evidence that personality given this god would find compelling the fact god could cause you believe anything wants you but think about for minute would you rather have someone love you because you made them love you because they wanted love you the responsibility you love god and take step toward him promises there for you but you have look for yourself those who doubt this dispute have not givin sincere effort and many others have described how have tried find god are you saying our efforts have not been sincere for all the effort have put there has been outward nor inward change that can perceive what sincerely searching agnostic atheist supposed when even the search turns nothing simple logic arguments are folly you read the bible you will see that jesus made fools those who tried trick him with logic our ability reason just spec creation yet some think the ultimate you rely simply your reason then you will never know more than you now learn you must accept that which you don know how you accept that which you don know you mean that must believe your god order believe your god mike mcangus the truth still the truth mam mouse cmhnet org even you choose ignore some the old sig viruses are still the best
alt.atheism	hard soft strong weak kiss apr gmt timmbake mcl ucsb edu bake timmons wrote mccullou whipple wisc edu writes writing someone else but you probably like seem soft atheist sorry for the flamage can get back using the terms strong atheist and weak atheist rather than this hard atheist and soft atheist can imagine future discussions with newbies where there confusion because the multiplication descriptions rest deleted mike mcangus the truth still the truth mam mouse cmhnet org even you choose ignore some the old sig viruses are still the best
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality arromdee jyusenkyou jhu edu ken arromdee writes simple take out some physics books and start looking for statements which say that there objective physics doubt you will find any you might find statements that there objective length objective location but objective physics perhaps you have different understanding what physics can measure anything objectively then the answers get from physics aren objective either that what mean when say there objective physics sure can all agree that say gmm but that maths only physics when you relate the real world and can that objectively stuck course this displays blatant bias towards applied science but even theoretical physics gets applied models real world situations based real world observations consider for instance that speed light vacuum invariant this sounds awful lot like objective speed light vacuum axiom that invariant but the two measure get different answers yes call that experimental error but not really error the conventional sense fact you don get any that error you could argue that the value objective within some value but call that rather odd usage the word objective and opens the way for statements like murder objectively wrong for all people within the total population mathew
alt.atheism	burden proof watson sce carleton stephen watson writes kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes article healta saturn wwc edu healta saturn wwc edu tammy healy writes fbi officials said cult leader david koresh may have forced followers remain flames closed koresh armed guard may have injected many children with poison quiet them the fbi have proof this yet why ask only quoting the fbi official why not ask the fbi myabe they lying cover maybe they telling the truth the children were course killed lone gunman second story window who fired eight bullets the space two seconds mathew
alt.atheism	cults religions mangoe umd edu charley wingate writes the media religion and cult have about the same relative connotations government and terrorist group yes each form the other charley anarchist just true words being spoken jest mathew
alt.atheism	gulf war and peace niks mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes seem agreeing that the soldiers were just doing their job best they could following orders proof positive that some people are beyond satire mathew
alt.atheism	are atoms real was after years blah blah blah kempmp phoenix oulu petri pihko writes mathew mathew mantis wrote what the difference between chemist and someone who taught chemistry say cambridge university put like this can answer was originally pointing out that your attitude seemed don know really was that chemists tend ignore all kinds effects when they not important yes all scientists otherwise science would never get anywhere your original posting stated that when doing chemistry common ignore atomic interactions hang about not atomic interactions general just specific ones which are deemed unimportant like gravitational interactions between ions which are small they drowned out electrostatic effects and has there been some revolution teaching methods the last four years perhaps this revolution has yet reach cambridge now get flamed for sure probably they still make people memorize equations and spectra maybe few decades they discover the revolutionary data book technique bitter and twisted mathew
alt.atheism	history texts was ancient references christianity wrote the diaries the followers the maharishi formerly oregon are historical evidence article psilink com robert knowles psilink com writes are you confusing bhagwan rajneesh with the maharishi mahesh yogi here any chance believe that maharishi titular someone please correct wrong thus maharishi rajneesh different person from maharishi mahesh but they are both maharishis russell
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality article itp horus mchp sni frank uucp frank dwyer says specifically like know what relativism concludes when two people grotesquely disagree both are right one them wrong and sometimes though perhaps rarely have pretty good idea who one them wrong but never have any information who make our best guess really must make decision the idea right moral judgement meaningless implying that whether peace better than war meaningless question and need not discussed for has correct answer something else short positive assertion would nice hope you can tell and are actually predicated the assumption that values are real statements like these can consistently derive from the relativist assumption that values aren part objective reality relativist who would like answer your question but the way you phrase the question makes unanswerable the concepts right and wrong correct incorrect true false belong the domain epistemological rather than moral questions makes sense ask moral position right wrong although legitimate ask good better than another position let illustrate this point looking the psychological derivatives epistemology and ethics perception and motivation respectively one can certainly ask percept right correct true veridical wrong incorrect false illusory but makes little sense ask motive true false the other hand strange ask whether percept morally good evil but one can certainly ask that question about motives therefore your suggested answers simply can considered they assume you can judge the correctness moral judgment now the problem with that double barrelled agree with the first part that the rightness moral position meaningless question for the reasons stated above but that irrelevant the alleged implication not implication all that one cannot feel peace better than war certainly can make value judgments bad better best without asserting the correctness the position sorry for the lengthy dismissal short answer that when two individuals grotesquely disagree moral issue neither right correct wrong incorrect they simply hold different moral values feelings john johnson psuvm psu edu department psychology penn state dubois campus penn state not responsible for behavior ruthless doctrinaire avoidance degeneracy degeneracy another sort getting drunk and picking bar ladies and writing metaphysics part life from lila pirsig
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality this swf another indirect post via dan article apr asl nec com duffy aslss asl nec com joseph duffy writes article apr microsoft com russpj microsoft com russ paul jones writes the same way that any theory proven false you examine the predicitions that the theory makes and try observe them you don you observe things that the theory predicts wouldn happen then you have some evidence against the theory the theory can modified incorporate the new observations then you say that false but how does one handle the nonrepeatability the experiment many types experiments the prediction that the observed phenomena will happen again and capable being observed for example chemistry someone may predict the outcome chemical reaction and then actually observe that reaction repeatedly there are several problems here first you are discussing only experimental procedures observational procedures are also useful the main criterion attempting verify idea using make prediction about yet unmade observations the observations could the result experiment they could obsevations activity occuring spontaneossly nature they could even observations the lasting results events long past all that matters that the observations new this what prediction about science not about predicting the future except this very restricted sense secondly repeatability can also take many forms really just the requirement that independent observers able verify the results the observation fossil repeatable since any qualified observer may look this why the specimens are reqtined museum also there the implicit prediction that future fossil finds will correspond the current one new fossils are found often enough that this tested regularly many times new fossil actually falsifies some conclusion made the basis previous fossils unfortunately for you the models that were falsified have alway been peripheral the model evolution now have for instance the front legs tyrannosaurus rex turned out have tremendous muscles rather than being weakly endowed previously believed fact histoircal science findings are repeatable the necessary sense just becuase you cannot out and repeat the original event does not make impossible make valid observations this not say that biologists would not coo coo extra terrestrial life were discovered that could make the determination the process abiogenesis relatively easy sarima teradata com formerly tdatirv sarima stanley friesen elsegundoca ncr com sarima teradata com formerly tdatirv sarima stanley friesen elsegundoca ncr com
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article apr monu monash edu darice yoyo monash edu fred rice writes the intent post remember was show that you cannot argue against any religion ideology for that matter the actions those who claim its followers you have look the teachings the religion the principles the ideology itself there getting around this argue against islam you have the qur bringing khomeini anyone else relevant discussing khomeini but not necessarily relevant discussing islam religion sorry fred but for the purposes under discussion here must disagree your point true only the sense that one cannot argue against communism reference the chinese soviet empires since those did not represent true communism judging the practical consequences islam force contend with the world today precisely the khomeini the world the rushdie fatwa supporters and perhaps more importantly the reaction the world muslim community those extremists that must look perhaps unfortunately from your perspective most people are not concerned with whether islam the right religion for them whether the qur could used guidebook for hypothetical utopia but how islam affects the world around them what their lives might like islam gains influence when consider such possibilities with not inconsiderable fear jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	hoban was the inimitable rushdie article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes interchange hoban deleted this post mine also illustrates that not simply reactionary who hates any book which doesn out its way avoid upsetting religionists only those you haven actually read sorry but the irony remains reiterate for the nth time also that don agree with fatwa nor support censorship point the original thread has been show why rushdie not particularly due sympathy those who hold their religion high esteem and don enjoy seeing things which slander like the story the satanic verses opposed the rushdie tsv played with for amusement although you don agree with the fatwa and apparently don think rushdie should killed for his book yet you think not due sympathy for being being under this threat furthermore you base this reaction solely the fact that wrote about particular well known story which true might reflect poorly the absolute truth your religion yet this opinion formed without recourse actually looking see how the story used context accepting face value the widespread propaganda just what this book contains and what the author motivations are and then you come forward and recommend another book which touches presumably plays with religious historical material because you find its overall presentation neutral jim perry perry dsinc com decision support inc matthews these are opinions for nominal fee they can yours
alt.atheism	death penalty was political atheists bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes this fascinating atheists argue for abortion defend homosexuality means population control insist that the only values are biological and condemn war and capital punishment according benedikt something contardictory cannot exist which this case means atheists suppose would like understand how atheist can object war excellent means controlling population growth capital punishment sorry but the logic escapes first you seem assume all atheists think alike atheist does not believe the existence god our opinions issues such capital punishment and abortion however vary greatly you were attacking the views particular atheist benedikt presume then please present your argument such and not lump all together for the issues let start with abortion personally not support abortion means population control contraception after the fact however support the right any woman have abortion regardless what personal views may because would arrogant tell any individual what she may may not his her body and the domain legislators should not extend into the uterus that opinion and sure many atheists and theists would disagree with not defend homosexuality means population control but certainly defend end itself think most homosexuals would angered hear anyone characterizing their personal relationship nothing more than conscious effort keep population levels down for atheists believing all values are biological have idea what you talking about finally there are the issues war and capital punishment atheist can object either one just easily theist might you seem hung some supposed conspiratorial link between atheism and population control could this the atheist cause you were referring few posts back kevin marshall computer science department virginia tech marshall csugrad edu blacksburg virginia
alt.atheism	faith and dogma tgk toronto edu todd kelley writes faith and dogma are irrational the faith and dogma part any religion are responsible for the irrationality the individuals disagree the end the individual responsible for his her own irrationality the individual belief some dogmatic religion symptom that irrationality have you noticed that philosophers tend atheists atheists and agnostics would imagine but yes that was point atheist would theoretically just ill equipped study the philosophy religion christian and yet there persistence atheists among the ranks philosophers therefore the conflict between one religious beliefs lack thereof and the ability philosopher must not great you assert the fact that most philosophers may non religious was secondary point science would practiced atheists contrast has built defence against faith and dogma opposed science practiced theists careful here science does have built defence against faith and dogma skepticism unfortunately not foolproof there that wonderful little creature known the theory many believe the theory evolution have absolute proof that this theory true why believe because makes more sense than there quite bit faith involved here scientist holds sacred the idea that beliefs should change suit whatever the best information available the time and and and scientist understands that any current beliefs are deficient some way well not all current beliefs are deficient but basically agree can you see the difference science views beliefs being flawed and new information can obtained improve them ideally this true reality though you have acknowledge that scientists are human scientists have egos and biases some scientists assume particular theory true refuse admit the flaws that theory because ego problems whatever and proceed spend their time and money trying come with absolute proof for the theory remember cold fusion the way wasn aware mass suicide was problem waco and jonestown were isolated incidents mass suicides are far from common clinton and the fbi would love for you convince them this would save the taxpayer lot money you could not really agree that spent far too much money the waco crisis believe especially considering the outcome point was that mass suicides the are rare jonestown was guyana incidentally although footed the bill for the clean and the has far more important issues address compare the number citizens who have died mass suicides with say the number soldiers who died during one week the vietnam war and you will see point kevin marshall computer science department virginia tech marshall csugrad edu blacksburg virginia
alt.atheism	rawlins debunks creationism article dglinnkv ctron news ctron com king ctron com john king writes iastate edu warren vonroeschlaub writes neither nor webster has ever heard francis hitchings who please not answer with well known evolutionist some other such informationless phrase paleontologist and author the neck the giraffe the quote was taken from jack for your information checked the library congress catalog and they list the following books francis hitching earth magic the neck the giraffe where darwin went wrong pendulum the psi connection the world atlas mysteries tom scharle scharle irishmvs room computing center scharle lukasiewicz edu university notre dame notre dame usa
alt.atheism	rawlins debunks creationism article ursa bear com halat pooh bears jim halat writes article sncl usenet ucs indiana edu adpeters sunflower bio indiana edu andy peters writes evolution have said before theory and fact exactly the same amount each the existence atoms and the existence gravity you accept the existence atoms and gravity fact then you should also accept the existence evolution fact andy don accept atoms gravity fact either they are extremely useful mathematical models describe physical observations can make other posters have aptly explained the atomic model gravity too very much theory gravity waves have even been detected but have very useful model that describes much the behavior objects this thing call gravity gravity however not fact theoretical model used talk about how objects behave our physical environment newton thought gravity was simple vector force einstein wave both are very useful models that have religious overtones requirements faith unless course you want demand that factual physical entity described exactly the way the theory now formulated talks about that takes great leap faith which course what religion takes evolution different jim halat halat bear com bear stearns whatever doesn kill you will only serve annoy you nyc speak only for myself what you accept fact the roundness the earth after all the ancient greeks thought was sphere and then newton said was spheroid and now people say geoid yourself isn your personal identity just theoretical construct make sense memories feelings perceptions trying think anything that would fact for you give some examples and let see how factual they are your criteria btw what are your criteria gravity not fact that fact how about newton and einstein thoughts about gravity fact that they had those thoughts don see how any the things that you are asserting are any more factual than things like gravity atoms evolution short before willing consider your concept what fact going have have minimum some examples what you think are facts tom scharle scharle irishmvs room computing center scharle lukasiewicz edu university notre dame notre dame usa
alt.atheism	mottos replace dog trust pepke dirac scri fsu edu eric pepke writes mammon trust hey this just piece paper spend quickly this your god from john carpenter they live natch steve the lurking horror stelter sjs uxa cso uiuc edu
alt.atheism	fake god holy lies article apr zeus calpoly edu dmcaloon tuba calpoly edu david mcaloon writes remember einstien said imagination greater than knowledge then einstein should have had lunch with the tien castro street yesterday when they handed fortune cookie that said who has imagination but not knowledge has wings but feet jon
alt.atheism	free moral agency see told you there was atheist mythology thanks for proving point bill
alt.atheism	free moral agency maddi hausmann madhaus netcom com wrote but how know that you representing the real christians bill you asshole get lost maddi see that you still can grasp the obvious because your are devious nature can you only find fault with argument misrepresenting plainly said that was stating the christian position understand did not say whether agree with since point was that the only flaws that position are those atheists invent have never claimed expert anything and especially christianity but have made object pretty intense study over the years feel qualified discuss what its general propositions are what offends you that have exposed the distortions and misrepresentations christianity you contrive and then rail against which seems more like the classical strawman dodge than what said this leaves you with nothing but attack but usual you avoid the larger issues picking away the insignificant stuff why not find one particular thing post that can discuss can you even tell what the issues are bill
alt.atheism	free moral agency article uul darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes many the atheists posting here argue against their own parody religion they create some ridiculous caricature religion and then attack the believers within that religion and the religion itself ridiculous their own devices they establish new religion mythology you mean bobby mozumder myth wondered about that the point course erect easy target and deflect the disputants away from the real issue atheism the fictional christian moslem jew who supposed believe the distorted representation their beliefs presented here therefore made seem fool and his her arguments can thereby made appear ludicrous the mythology the misrepresentations religion used here fact you mean bobby mozumder didn really post here wondered about that too conner bobby mozumder myth performing artist real moslem crackpot provocateur you know everything and read all minds why don you tell jon
alt.atheism	free moral agency article uul darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes many the atheists posting here argue against their own parody religion they create some ridiculous caricature religion and then attack the believers within that religion and the religion itself ridiculous their own devices they establish new religion mythology that not atheism mythology any sense the word religious paradoy would significantly more appropriate the part rendered null and void the simple fact that know several strong atheists sure that others myself strong the sense that find the standard concept god without any meaning any attempt bring meaning either results the destruction the viability language internal self contradiction the concept strong atheism not just whimsical fantasy they and exist your strawman pointless and weak private note jennifer fakult this post may contain one more the following sarcasm cycnicism irony humor please aware this possibility and not allow yourself confused and thrown for loop doubt assume all the above the owners this account not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability recognize any the above read your own risk jennifer
alt.atheism	free moral agency article uxj darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes see told you there was atheist mythology thanks for proving point bill considering what you quoted and refered was blank must say touche course you are correct there atheistic mythology employed this board there null and void private note jennifer fakult this post may contain one more the following sarcasm cycnicism irony humor please aware this possibility and not allow yourself confused and thrown for loop doubt assume all the above the owners this account not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability recognize any the above read your own risk jennifer
alt.atheism	free moral agency article uzpe darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes what offends you that have exposed the distortions and misrepresentations christianity you contrive and then rail against which seems more like the classical strawman dodge than what said this leaves you with nothing but attack but usual you avoid the larger issues picking away the insignificant stuff why not find one particular thing post that can discuss can you even tell what the issues are let guess you not psycho analyst real life but you play one alt atheism right esp something you have been given god private note jennifer fakult this post may contain one more the following sarcasm cycnicism irony humor please aware this possibility and not allow yourself confused and thrown for loop doubt assume all the above the owners this account not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability recognize any the above read your own risk jennifer
alt.atheism	death penalty gulf war long article apr daffy wisc edu mccullou snake wisc edu mark mccullough writes article optima arizona edu sham arizona edu shamim zvonko mohamed writes bullshit the gulf massacre all ordnance used was smart the rest that was just regular dumb iron bombs and stuff have heard figures closer and the that was the smart stuff hit again try follow here that means this smart arsenal missed most figures have seen place the hit ratio close which still far higher than your have source that says that date the civilian death count excuse mean collateral damage about have never seen any source that was claiming such figure please post the source its reliability can judged obviously have different sources bill moyers who happens theist tie this alt atheism his pbs documentary after the war main source think still have videotape others include the nation and the progressive the rest the article mere rationalisation you may claim that sanitation plants are strategic legitimate targets but what happens the civilians city with sewer system what happens the civilians when you destroy water purification plants and when hospitals can handle the resultant epidemics because there more electricity and what exactly are your sources have all sure seen postol interviews the media where demostrates how the pentagon lied about the patriot effectiveness what your source for the effectiveness you claim any case don know this relevant alt atheism how about move somewhere else shamim mohamed uunet noao cmcl arizona shamim shamim arizona edu take this cross and garlic here mezuzah jewish page the koran muslim and zen buddhist you your own member the league for programming freedom write lpf uunet net
alt.atheism	the qur and atheists was jewish settlers demolish mosque gaza article psilink com robert knowles psilink com writes date sun apr gmt from fred rice darice yoyo monash edu the qur talks about those who take their lusts and worldly desires for their god think this probably encompasses most atheists fred rice darice yoyo monash edu well all the muslim men screwing fourteen year old prostitutes thailand got better quote wonder the above quote forms the justification for athiesm and the equanimity with which their belief arrived
alt.atheism	free moral agency andrew newell tan psuvm psu edu wrote think you letting atheist mythology confuse you the issue webster myth traditional legendary story belief whose truth accepted uncritically how does that qualify indeed almost oxymoronic rather amusing instance found that most atheists hold almost atheist views accepted uncritically especially the few that are legend many are trying explain basic truths myths but they don meet the other criterions andrew the myth which refer the convoluted counterfeit athiests have created make religion appear absurd rather than approach religion including christainity rational manner and debating its claims the are stated atheists concoct outrageous parodies and then hold the religious accountable for beliefs they don have what more accurately oxymoric the term like reasonable atheist bill divine justice according the most fundamental doctrines christianity when the first man sinned was that time the you accuse him referencing mythology then you procede launch your own xtian mythology this time meeting all the requirements myth here good example what said above read the post again said acoording which means referring christian doctrine understand speaking for myself you know purpose posting was present basic overview christain doctrines since seemed germane bill with those who pretend not know what being said and what means when atheists claim that they not know god exists and don know what wants they contradict the bible which clearly says that everyone knows the authority the bible its claim should repeat what wrote above for the sake getting across you may trust the bible but your trusting doesn make any more credible the bible says that everyone knows that clearly reason doubt the bible because not everyone knows your alleged god alleged existance again paraphrasing christian doctrine which very clear this point your dispute not with bill refuted while the species wide condemnation justified those that claim that there evidence for the existence god that his will unknown must deliberately ignore the bible the ignorance itself excuse they don have ignore the bible the bible far from universally accepted the bible not proof god only proof that some people have thought that there was god does prove even that they might have been writing series fiction short stories the case dionetics assuming the writers believed the only thing could possibly prove that they believed and that ignoring the problem whether not all the interpretations and biblical philosophers were correct there are people who have truly never heard the bible again read the faq here again you miss the point the bible itself not the point what contains makes difference who accpets the bible even who unaware its existence christians hold that applies universally because mankind shares the same nature and the same fate and the same innate knowledge god see above you read post with same care read the faq wouldn having this conversation bill freedom you are free ignore god the same way you are free ignore gravity and the consequences are inevitable and well known both cases that atheist can accept the evidence means only bzzt wrong answer gravity directly there doesn stop exerting direct and rationally undeniable influence you ignore god the other hand doesn generally show the supermarket except the tabloids god doesn exert rationally undeniable influence gravity obvious gods aren said the evidence there you just don accept here least agree bill secondly human reason very comforatble with the concept god much that itself intrinsic our nature human reason always comes back the question god every generation and human reason hasn always come back the existance god has usually come back the existance god other words doesn generally come back the xtian god comes back whether there any god and much oriental philosophic history generally doesn pop the idea god much the question what natural forces are and which ones are out there from world wide view human nature just makes wonder how the universe came and what force are currently control natural tendancy believe god only exists religious wishful thinking yes human reason does always come back the existence god having this discussion are not bill said all this make the point that christianity eminently reasonable that divine justice just and human nature much different than what atheists think whether you agree not you certainly are not correct human nature you are the least basing your views completely eurocentric approach try looking the outside world well when you attempt sum all humanity well this interesting truth determined politically correct content granted extremely unhip wasp male and anything european contemptable but thought this kind dialogue the purpose was get the truth things but then remember the oxymoron reasonalble atheist and understand bill
alt.atheism	free moral agency james felder spbach lerc nasa gov wrote are you saying that their was physical adam and eve and that all humans are direct decendents only these two human beings then who were cain and able wives couldn their sisters because didn have daughters were they non humans okay all humans are direct descendents bunch hopeful monsters the human race didn evolve from one set parents but from thousands you really base your atheist this considering that something like out humans this planet don know instinctively that the christian god exist the claim instinctive knowledge doesn look like hold much water are you saying that the billion non christians the world must fight this instinctive urge acknowledge god and did say that people were christians nature did say that christians hold that everyone knows the god the christians worship would have thought the distinction obvious sorry read post again and see what really said from what you written think you are just being agumentative also your word wrap screwed you need shift columns text bill
alt.atheism	free moral agency kent sandvik sandvik newton apple com wrote agree had hard feeling not believing grand grand mother who told elves dancing outside barns the early mornings preferred not accept even her statement provided the truth itself life hard kent truly brilliant rebuttal apparently you are the opinion that ridicule suitable substitute for reason you find plenty company bill
alt.atheism	cruel kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes don think although some forms execution are painful the electric chair looks particularly think the pain relatively short lived drawing and quartering the other hand looks very painful and the victim wouldn die right away bleed death imagine cruel punishment not just painful you origionally stated about long term pain non short lived why this sudden chance your stance don think changed stance all original stance was that painless execution was not cruel one didn say what would considered cruel only that painless death wasn now cruelty must involve some sort suffering believe don think someone that gets shot the head electrocuted really suffers very much even hanging probably produces one sharp instance pain but over quickly hmmmmm pardon could that counter example has been made which renders your previous stance null and void why don you admit that your previous stance incorrect you somehow managed slip and misstated your origional stance why not admit well again stated that painless death isn cruel but don think stated that all painful executions are cruel think that some are cruel depending the nature and duration the pain the way how long too long anything more than instant guess any death suffocation asphyxiation blood loss would cruel think this includes the gas chamber and drawing and quartering say that any pain that lasts say over twenty seconds would too long but this may arbitrary cutoff suppose keith
alt.atheism	christian morality dan schaertel dps nasa kodak com wrote article ousrvr oulu kempmp phoenix oulu petri pihko writes love god just much she loves she wants seduce she know what but she did you would probably consider rape course not would think that would great fun not having ever felt the joy and peace the christians speak with longing gaze this not what got when believed just tried hide fear getting punished for something never was sure the bible hopelessly confusing for someone who wants know for sure god did not answer the end found had been following mass delusion lie can believe being who refuses give slightest hint her existence obviously there are many christians who have tried and believe suggest they should honestly reconsider the reasons why they believe and analyse their position fact amusing note this context that many fundamentalist publications tell exactly the opposite one should not examine one belief critically tell you something left out testimony posted this group two months ago day after finally found out faith over decided try just one more time the same cycle emotional responses fired once again but this time the delusion lasted only couple hours told friend phone that really works thank god just think about again when hung had admit that had lied and fallen prey the same illusion one asks you swallow everything fact jesus warns against but let ask you question you beleive what you learn history class for that matter anything school mean just what other people have told you and you don want swallow what others say right used believe what read books when was younger what other people told but grew more and more skeptical the more read learned what means use reason student chemistry had perform qualitative analysis mixture two organic compounds the lab hated experiments like this they are old fashioned and increase the student workload considerably besides had twice since failed first attempt however think never forget the lesson matter how strongly you believe the structure the unknown may still very tempting jump into conclusions take leap faith assure oneself ignore the data which inconsistent but can still wrong found out that was after all using exactly the same mechanism believe god mental self assurance suspension fear filtering information other words was only god playing any part the life death and resurection christ documented historical fact and had better believe this dan many ufo stories are much better documented than the resurrection jesus the resurrection documented quite haphazardly the bible seems the authors did not pay too much attention which wild rumour leave out besides the ends the gospels probably contain later additions and insertions for instance the end mark missing from many early texts says bible jesus may have lived and died but was probably misunderstood much anything else you learn how you choose what believe and what not this easy believe that the world exists independent mind and that logic and reason can used interpret and analyse what observe nothing else need taken faith will the evidence makes difference whether believe george washington existed not assume that did considering the vast amount evidence presented there way get into sceptical heart you can not say you have given sincere effort with the attitude you seem have you must trust not just church and participate activities were you ever willing die for what you believed liar how you know what attitude was try reading your bible again was willing die for faith those who are usually remembered heroes least among those who believe dan you think lying when say believed firmly for years seems very difficult admit that someone who has really believed does not anymore but can lying myself blind trust dangerous and was just another blind led the blind but god really wants she know what willing just don know whether she exists looking the available evidence looks like she doesn petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics the truth pihatie finou oulu physics the rule oulu kempmp the game finland phoenix oulu chemistry the game
alt.atheism	upi mother files complaint over boy scouts default followups newsgroups short excerpt brookfield wis upi mother has filed complaint with the elmbrook school board alleging her son elementary school and its parent teacher organization show discrimination supporting the boy scouts gisele klemp said wednesday the pto sponsorship boy scout troop and cub scout pack that meet hillside elementary school surbarban milwaukee discrimination because the boy scouts ban homosexuals pto president gail pludeman disputed the charges discrimination and said she believes the boy scouts are beneficial carl kadie not represent any organization this just kadie uiuc edu
alt.atheism	free moral agency article darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes okay all humans are direct descendents bunch hopeful monsters the human race didn evolve from one set parents but from thousands you really base your atheist this article darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes truly brilliant rebuttal apparently you are the opinion that ridicule suitable substitute for reason you find plenty company bill conner meet bill conner jon
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality article kmr cwru edu kmr cwru edu keith ryan writes only when the sun starts orbit the earth will accept the bible did you forget that two spinning skaters are orbit around each other
alt.atheism	you will all hell article apr wam umd edu willdb wam umd edu william david battles says article apr ncsu edu aiken news ncsu edu wayne nmi aiken writes jsn psuvm psu edu wrote you blashephemers you will all hell for not believing god prepared for your eternal damnation did someone leave their terminal unattended again probably not the jesus freak post probably jsn psuvm penn state just loaded the hilt with bible bangers use there vomit and was the reason left they even had group try stop playing rock music the dining halls one year cuz they deemed satanic kampus krusade for khrist people run the damn place for the most part except the liberal arts departments they are the safe havens sounds like you were going different penn state something kampus krusade for khrist very vocal here but they really have little power get anything done sometimes seems like there are lot them because they generally more vocal than their opposition but there really aren that many krusaders the liberals tend keep themselves they can help since all they really want allowed about their own lives the way they want you don hear from about most them the bible bangers stand out because they want everyone forced live according bible banger rules the krusaders certainly don run this place say got rather average mix people here much like the rest the and just like everywhere else some factions are louder than others andrew
alt.atheism	free moral agency article darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes the myth which refer the convoluted counterfeit athiests have created make religion appear absurd rather than approach religion including christainity rational manner and debating its claims the are stated atheists concoct outrageous parodies and then hold the religious accountable for beliefs they don have what more accurately oxymoric the term like reasonable atheist they are religious parodies not atheistic paradies please substantiate that they are parodies and are outrageous specifically why the iup any more outrageous than many religions private note jennifer fakult this post may contain one more the following sarcasm cycnicism irony humor please aware this possibility and not allow yourself confused and thrown for loop doubt assume all the above the owners this account not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability recognize any the above read your own risk jennifer
alt.atheism	cruel article bkpinno gap caltech edu keith cco caltech edu keith allan schneider writes well again stated that painless death isn cruel but don think stated that all painful executions are cruel think that some are cruel depending the nature and duration the pain but hanging certainly painful you not let the condemned know they are going die anything more than instant guess any death suffocation asphyxiation blood loss would cruel think this includes the gas chamber and drawing and quartering say that any pain that lasts say over twenty seconds would too long but this may arbitrary cutoff suppose hanging not supposed very pleasant believe that actuality not quick and clean however gas chambers can quite non painful heck why not give them good time suffication nitrious oxide private note jennifer fakult this post may contain one more the following sarcasm cycnicism irony humor please aware this possibility and not allow yourself confused and thrown for loop doubt assume all the above the owners this account not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability recognize any the above read your own risk jennifer
alt.atheism	books stuff about hard find atheist books deleted perhaps the infiltration fundies onto school boards city councils etc has something with why you can find alternative media
alt.atheism	cults religions bill ray ray engr latech edu wrote james thomas green jgreen trumpet calpoly edu wrote conclusion can shown that there essentially logical argument which clearly differentiates cult from religion challenge anyone produce distinction which clear and can easily knocked down how about this one religion cult which has stood the test time just like history written the winners and not the losers from what seen religions religion just cult that was vile and corrupt was able exert doctrine using political and military measures perhaps koresh withstood the onslaught for another couple months would have started attracting more converts due his strength hence becoming full religion and not just cult carl christensen dept computer science christen astro ocis temple edu temple university curiouser and curiouser philadelphia usa
alt.atheism	nicknames cmtan iss nus tan chade meng dan writes somebody forgotten nickname tan chade meng chinese have nicknames the front the unenlightened one thought your nickname was unenlightened maddi hausmann madhaus netcom com centigram communications corp san jose california kids please don try this home remember post professionally
alt.atheism	asimov stamp article dcs pdc dcs paul crowley writes quoting schnitzi eustis ucf edu mark schnitzius article schnitzi eustis sure all the religious types would get snit due asimov atheism can someone confirm this someone told that asimov converted christianity some point something does anyone have any good quotes what absolutely not way asimov was lifelong atheist and said many times right until his death judging from the many stories told about his own life felt culturally closest judaism which makes sense was born jewish wente llnl gov
alt.atheism	free moral agency dean kaflowitz decay cbnewsj att com wrote think you letting atheist mythology great start realize immediately that you are not interested discussion and are going thump your babble would much prefer answer from healy who seems have reasonable and reasoned approach things say aren you the creationist guy who made lot silly statements about evolution some time ago duh gee then must talking christian mythology now was hoping discuss something with reasonable logical person but all you seem have for your side repetition the same boring mythology seen thousand times before deleting the rest your remarks unless spot something that approaches answer because they are merely repetition some uninteresting doctrine other and contain thought all have congratulate you though bill you wouldn know logical argument bit you the balls such persistent lack function the face repeated attempts assist you learning which have seen this forum and others the past speaks talent that goes well beyond own meager abilities just don seem have that capacity for ignoring outside influences dean kaflowitz dean read your comments you think that merely characterizing argument the same refuting you think that hominum attacks are sufficient make any point other than you disapproval you have any contribution make all bill
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality mark mccullough mccullou snake wisc edu wrote article ursa bear com halat pooh bears jim halat writes atoms are not objective they aren even real what scientists call atom nothing more than mathematical model that describes certain physical observable properties our surroundings all which subjective jim halat this deserves framing really does atoms aren even real tell then those atoms have seen with electron microscopes are atoms now what are they figments our imaginations the evidence that atoms are real overwhelming but won bother with most evidence the moment you would have believe that what the eye perceives images are actaully there perceived this may interesting thought that electron microscope was used because wavelength light can illuminate any object atomic scale this image have useful resolution wouldn the illuminating sources wavelength have several orders magnitude less than size thing observed atom probablity cloud lower resolutions would give the appearance solidity but seems fairly certain that atom not object any conventional sense obviously not physicist but the question does have ramification philosophic nature anyway just stray thought carry bill
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality mike cobb cobb alexia lis uiuc edu wrote very true length time for discussions creationism evolutionism atheists and christians have been debating since and still debate with unabated passion mike seen referrences creation evolution several times and have question either point view derived from direct observation can either scientific wonder the whole controversy more concerned with the consequences the truth rather than the truth itself both sides seem hold philosophical outcome and can help wondering which came first pointed out elsewhere view human nature makes believe that there way knowing anyhthing objectively all knowledge inherently subjective the context would you take stand based what you actually know true what you want true and how can you tell the difference bill
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality kent sandvik sandvik newton apple com wrote article darkside osrhe uoknor edu bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner wrote say that what one chooses observe and how the observation interpreted and what significance given depends great deal the values the observer science human activity and such subject the same potential for distortion any other human activity the myth that scientists are above moral influence ethical concern that their knowledge can abstacted whole and pure from nature untainted the biases the scientist nonsense bill this wonderfully phrased assume you understand that your statement also undermining such human constructs religion well kent accept this compliment although always little paranoid when visiting thanks yes know the extent the statements relevence what think human nature not sure undermines either religion atheism since both claim special knowledge about the truth and since such claims are always suspect all can learn from that humans are very arrogant species point that cannot ignore human nature when examining human claims the trick here then find some way abstract our infinitely fallible nature from whatever reality out there can see what there see can think way this can done bill
alt.atheism	what shit shoveler was amusing atheists and robert beauchaine bobbe vice ico tek com wrote precisely position newbie tried the point point approach debate with these types wasted both time and lifespan ignoring them not option since they don away and doing would leave one with large stretches complete anonymity this group bob posted here long enough see your name few times but can recall any point point approach anything you contributed but old probably senile and may have just forgotten you could post example your invincible logic might jog memory bill
alt.atheism	free energy technology free energy technology robert mcelwaine physicist ninety hundred years ago everybody knew that heavier than air machine could not possibly fly would violate the laws physics all the experts and authorities said for example simon newcomb declared the demonstration that possible combination known substances known forms machinery and known forms force can united practical machine which man shall fly long distances through the air seems the writer complete possible for the demonstration any physical fact fortunately few smart people such the wright brothers did not accept such pronouncements the final word now take airplanes for granted except when they crash today orthodox physicists and other scientists are saying similar things against several kinds free energy technologies using negative terms such pseudo science and perpetual motion and citing called laws which assert that energy cannot created destroyed law thermodynamics and there always decrease useful energy law thermodynamics the physicists not know how certain things they arrogantly declare that those things cannot done such principles impotence are common orthodox modern science and help cover inconsistencies and contradictions orthodox modern theories free energy inventions are devices which can tap seemingly unlimited supply energy from the universe with out burning any kind fuel making them the perfect solution the world wide energy crisis and its associated pollution degradation and depletion the environment most free energy devices probably not create energy but rather tap into existing natural energy sources various forms induction unlike solar wind devices they need little energy storage capacity because they can tap much energy needed when needed solar energy has the dis advantage that the sun often blocked clouds trees buildings the earth itself reduced haze smog thick atmosphere low altitudes and high latitudes likewise wind speed widely variable and often non existent neither solar nor wind power are suitable directly power cars and airplanes properly designed free energy devices not have such limitations for example least three patents and have far been awarded for motors that run exclusively permanent magnets seemingly tapping into energy circulating through the earth magnetic field the first two require feedback network order self running the third one described detail science mechanics magazine spring amazing magnet powered motor jorma hyypia pages and front cover requires critical sizes shapes orientations and spacings magnets but feedback such motor could drive electric generator reversible heatpump one home year round for free complete descriptive copies patents are each from the patent office jefferson davis hwy arlington correct digit patent number required try getting copies both the article and the patents via your local public university library inter library loan dept second type free energy device such the gray motor patent the tesla coil and the motor inventor joseph newman see science pages taps electro magnetic energy induction from earth resonance about cycles per second plus harmonics they typically have spark gap the circuit which serves synchronize the energy the coils with the energy being tapped important that the total inductance and capacitance the device combine resonate the same frequency earth resonance order maximize the power output this output can also increased centering the spark gap the neutral center strong shaped permanent magnet the case tesla coil slipping toroid choke coil around the secondary coil will enhance output power earth energy fuelless propulsion power systems john bigelow health research box mokelumne hill during the austrian civil engineer named viktor schauberger invented and partially developed implosion turbine german name zokwendle after analyzing erosion and lack erosion differently shaped waterways and developing sophisticated mathematical equations explain described the book breakthrough new free energy sources dan davidson water pumped impeller pump through logarithmic spiral shaped coil tubing until reaches critical velocity the water then implodes longer touching the inside walls the tubing and drives the pump which then converts the pump motor into electric generator the device seems tapping energy from that the earth rotation via the coriolis effect like tornado can also neutralize gravity fourth type free energy device the mcclintock air motor patent which cross between diesel engine has three cylinders with compression ratio and rotary engine with solar and planetary gears burns fuel but becomes self running driving its own air compressor this engine also generates lot heat which could used heat buildings and its very high torque makes ideal for large trucks preventing their slowing down when climbing hills david mcclintock also the real original inventor the automatic transmission differential and wheel drive crystals may someday used supply energy shown the star trek shows perhaps inserting each one between metal capacitor plates and bombarding with beam particles from small radioactive source like that used common household smoke detector one other energy source should mentioned here despite the fact that does not fit the definition free energy bulgarian born american physicist named joseph maglich has invented and partially developed atomic fusion reactor which calls migma which uses non radioactive deuterium fuel available nearly unlimited quantities from sea water does not produce radioactive waste can converted directly into electricity with out energy wasting steam turbines and can constructed small enough power house large enough power city and unlike the tokamaks and laser fusion monstrosities that read about migma works already producing least three watts power for every watt put new times version pages and then there are the cold fusion experiments that have been the news lately originally conducted university utah researchers stanley pons and martin fleischmann some navy researchers the china lake naval weapons center california under the direction chemist melvin miles finally took the trouble collect the bubbles coming from such apparatus had them analyzed with mass spectrometry techniques and found helium which proves that atomic fusion did indeed take place and enough explain the excess heat generated there are good indications that the two called laws thermodynamics are not absolute for example the late physicist dewey larson developed comprehensive general unified theory the physical universe which calls the reciprocal system which describes detail several books such nothing but motion and the universe motion which the physical universe has two distinct halves the material half and anti matter half with continuous cycle matter and energy passing between them with out the heat death predicted thermodynamic laws his theory explains the universe much better than modern orthodox theories including phenomena that orthodox physicists and astronomers are still scratching their heads about and self consistent every way some free energy devices might tapping into that energy flow seemingly converting low quality energy into high quality energy also certain religious organizations such sant mat and eckankar teach their members that the physical universe only the lowest least dozen major levels existence like parallel universes analogous channels described books like the path the masters julian johnson and eckankar the key secret worlds sri paul twitchell for example the next level from the physical universe commonly called the astral plane long time members these groups have learned soul travel into these higher worlds and report conditions there seems plausible that energy could flow down from these higher levels into the physical universe created the boundary between them given the right configuration matter channel this supported many successful laboratory controlled experiments psycho kinesis throughout the world such those described the book psychic discoveries behind the iron curtain terms economics the market has failed inventors not have enough money and other resources fully develop and mass produce free energy equipment and the conventional energy producer have desire because their ted intere the government needed intervene the government does not intervene then the total supply energy resources from the earth will continue decline and will soon run out prices for energy will increase and pollution and its harmful effects including the greenhouse effect acid rain smog radioactive contamination oil spills rape the land strip mining etc will continue increase the government should subsidize research and development free energy inventors and universities subsidize private production until the producers can make their own and subsidize consumption low income consumers free energy hardware the long range effects such government intervention would wide spread and profound the quantity energy demanded from conventional energy producer coal mining companie oil companie and countries electric utilitie etc would drop near zero forcing their employees seek work elsewhere energy resources coal uranium oil and gas would left the ground prices for conventional energy supplies would also drop near zero while the price free energy equipment would start out high but drop supply increases happened with vcr personal computers etc costs producing products that require large quantities energy produce would decrease along with their prices consumers consumers would able realize the opportunity costs paying electric utility bills buying home heating fuel tourism would benefit and increase because travelers would not have spend their money for gasoline for their cars government tax revenue from gasoline and other fuels would have obtained some other way and energy could longer used motive excuse for making war many conventional energy producer would out business but society whole and the earth environment and ecosystems would benefit greatly the people that government should serve rather than the big corporation and bank for more information answers your questions etc please consult cited sources patents articles books altered reproduction and dissemination this important information encouraged robert mcelwaine physics
alt.atheism	christian morality dan schaertel dps nasa kodak com wrote let back say years whatever pretend someone says you someday there will men the moon now remember you still think the world flat this quite extraordinary claim think lewis has argued that medieval people did not all think the world flat however this argument goes both ways pretend someone telling plato that highly probable that people not really have souls their minds and their consciousness are just something their brains make and their brains their body actually ahead their mind even voluntarly actions don think plato would have been happy with this and neither would paul although paul ideas were quite different however you would read what discuss this group and not just preach you would see that there currently much evidence favour these statements the same applies the theory natural selection other sacred cows christianity our origins and human nature don believe spirits devils immortal souls any more than gods the fact can argue the existence god until the end time there really way either prove disprove but there will time when all know the truth hope and believe right and hope and pray that you find your way too you said you believe what you want this what had assumed all along maybe shouldn have said way guess really believe there way but all can plant seeds either they grow they don you might well planting satan seeds ever thought this besides you haven yet explained why must believe blindly without any guiding light all least haven noticed don think this all fair play god part your argument sounds like version pascal wager please read the faq this fallacy discussed there but they won they not planted the holy spirit the nurishment that helps them grow and that comes from god and failed get help from the because had wrong attitude sorry dan but not think this spirit exists people who claim have access just look badly deluded not gifted petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics the truth pihatie finou oulu physics the rule oulu kempmp the game finland phoenix oulu chemistry the game
alt.atheism	free moral agency bil okcforum osrhe edu bill conner writes see that you still can grasp the obvious because your are devious nature can you only find fault with argument misrepresenting gee since you ignored the entire substance substantial post you got lot nerve claiming that don understand what being talked about respond the previous post shut the fuck you really annoying maddi hausmann madhaus netcom com centigram communications corp san jose california kids please don try this home remember post professionally
alt.atheism	free energy technology article apr cnsvax uwec edu mcelwre cnsvax uwec edu writes free energy inventions are devices which can tap seemingly unlimited supply energy from the universe with out burning any kind fuel making them the perfect solution the world wide energy crisis and its associated pollution degradation and depletion the environment give call when you build working model then talk stock options private note jennifer fakult this post may contain one more the following sarcasm cycnicism irony humor please aware this possibility and not allow yourself confused and thrown for loop doubt assume all the above the owners this account not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability recognize any the above read your own risk jennifer
alt.atheism	the qur and atheists was jewish settlers demolish mosque gaza article apr doug cae wisc edu kahraman hprisc cae wisc edu gokalp kahraman writes this respect since atheists are dominantly arrogant and claim self control and self ownership they would make pharoahs look like very humble decent people comparison the logic this since own myself others who are like should also own themselves and going further things are self existent and self standing and self living etc yes atheists tend claim self control and self ownership are you saying that theists claim not have self control don think atheists are dominantly arrogant they don claim some god that has supremacy over all mankind now this claim would arrogant but atheists don claim most atheists claim own themselves think any disagreement with this claim self ownership would supremely arrogant john david munch jmunch hertz elee calpoly edu the heart can change full hate love people are allowed base their lives through their hearts anything can happen dangerous situation opinion bobby mozumder describing problems with atheism
alt.atheism	cults religions the media religion and cult have about the same relative connotations government and terrorist group wingate the peace god peace but strife closed the sod mangoe umd edu yet brothers pray for but one thing tove mangoe the marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	science and theories article news cso uiuc edu cobb alexia lis uiuc edu mike cobb writes per various threads science and creationism started dabbling into book called christianity and the nature science moreland don know this book will use your heresay question that had come from one his comments stated that god not necessarily religious term but could used other scientific terms that give explanation for events theories without being proven scientific fact depends how defines god the way understand the meaning that term preclues being used useful way science ideas drawn from understanding that god supernatural precludes from forming scientific assertions that can falsified that where can decide that they are true false within the terms use and useful observations drawn from them some religionists have interest bluring the definitions within science make them more reconcilable and especially subserviant basic way religious dogma this pursuit always fails think got his point can quote the section being vague the examples gave were quarks and continental plates are there explanations science parts theories that are not measurable and themselves can everything quantified measured tested etc reconciliation science with religion involves circumventing the tendancy claim that either pursuit can gain absolute certian knowledge that the domain truth each fundementally limited some way gererally confurs the element uncertainty and limitations human knowledge while allowing for the different concerns these separate pursuits science and religion ask different questions which have imperfect and provisional answers best science distinctly limited where can ask meaningful questions more questions can posed than can answer the basis sacred language the place where words fail and mere assertions disolve contradiction bruce salem
alt.atheism	little too satanic jon livesey writes when they took the time copy the text correctly that includes obvious corruptions well yes this the real mystery the matter and why rather dubious lot the source theories there are number places where the masoretic text the obscure and presumably corrupted these are reproduced exactly from copy copy the dss tend reflect the same errors this would appear tell that least from some point people began copy the texts very exactingly and mechanically the problem don know what they did before that but seems though accurate transmission begins the point which the texts are perceived texts they may added and some situations such the end mark material lost but for the most part there are substantial changes the existing text you basically trying make mountain out molehill some people like use the game telephone metaphor for the transmission the texts this clearly wrong the texts are transmitted accurately wingate the peace god peace but strife closed the sod mangoe umd edu yet brothers pray for but one thing tove mangoe the marv lous peace god
alt.atheism	albert sabin from wpr atlanta com bill rawlins newsgroups alt atheism organization dgsid atlanta since you have referred the messiah assume you are referring the new testament please detail your complaints mail you don want post first century greek well known and well understood have you considered josephus the jewish historian who also wrote jesus addition the four gospel accounts are very much harmony also well known that the comments josephus relating jesus were inserted badly later editors for the four gospels being harmony the issue jesus you know not what you speak here are few contradictions starting with the trial and continuing through the assension the death judas after the betrayal jesus acts now this man judas purchased field with the reward iniquity and falling headlong burst asunder the midst and all his bowels gushed out matt and judas cast down the pieces silver the temple and departed and went and hanged himself and the chief priests bought with them the potter field what was jesus prediction regarding peter denial before the cock crow matthew before the cock crow twice mark how many times did the cock crow mar and the second time the cock crew and peter called mind the word that jesus said unto him before the cock crow twice thou shalt deny thrice and when thought thereon wept mat then began curse and swear saying know not the man and immediately the cock crew mat and peter remembered the word jesus which said unto him before the cock crow thou shalt deny thrice and went out and wept bitterly luk and peter said man know not what thou sayest and immediately while yet spake the cock crew luk and the lord turned and looked upon peter and peter remembered the word the lord how had said unto him before the cock crow thou shalt deny thrice joh jesus answered him wilt thou lay down thy life for sake verily verily say unto thee the cock shall not crow still thou hast denied thrice joh peter then denied again and immediately the cock crew destruction cities what said was jeremiah was zechariah this interesting because matthew quotes prophesy that was never made not the only time does this either mat then was fulfilled that which was spoken jeremy the prophet saying and they took the thirty pieces silver the price him that was valued whom they the children israel did value zechariah nothing jeremiah remotely like what was the color the robe placed jesus during his trial scarlet matthew purple john the time the crucifiction mark says the third hour but john says the sixth hour noon was when the sentence was passed inscription the cross matthew this jesus the king the jews mark the king the jews luke this the king the jews john jesus nazareth the king the jews what did they give him drink vinegar matthew wine with myrrh mark women the cross matthew said many stood far off including mary magdaline mary the mother james and the mother zebedee children mark and luke speak many far off and mark includes mary magdeline and mary the mother james the less john says that jesus mother stood the cross along with her sister and mary magdalene jesus last words matt and about the ninth hour jesus cried with loud voice saying eli eli lama sabachthani that say god god why hast thou forsaken jesus when cried again with loud voice yielded the ghost luke and when jesus had cried with loud voice said father unto thy hands commend spirit and having said thus gave the ghost john when jesus therefore had received the vinegar said finished and bowed his head and gave the ghost events the crucifiction matthew says that the veil the temple was rent that there was earthquake and that was dark from the sixth the ninth hour that graves opened and bodies the saints arose and went into jeruselem appearing many beating jesus the resurection mark and luke speak darkness and the veil the temple being rent but mention earthquake risen saints john the only one who mentions jesus side being peirced burial jesus matthew says the jews asked pilate for guard prevent the body from being stolen the disciples and for the tomb sealed all this was supposedly done but the other gospels not mention these precautions how long was jesus the tomb depends where you look matthew gives jesus prophesying that will spend three days and three nights the heart the earth and mark has after three days meta treis emeras will rise again far can see from quick look the prophecies have after three days but the post resurrection narratives have the third day time the resurection matthew says sunday dawn mark says the sun was rising and john says was dark who was the empty tomb mat the end the sabbath began dawn toward the first day the week came mary magdalene and the other mary see the sepulchre mar and when the sabbath was past mary magdalene and mary the mother james and salome had bought sweet spices that they might come and anoint him joh the first day the week cometh mary magdalene early when was yet dark unto the sepulchre and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre whom did they see the tomb mat and behold there was great earthquake for the angel the lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone from the door and sat upon mat his countenance was like lightning and his raiment white snow mat and for fear him the keepers did shake and became dead men mat and the angel answered and said unto the women fear not for know that seek jesus which was crucified mar and entering into the sepulchre they saw young man sitting the right side clothed long white garment and they were affrighted luk and came pass they were much perplexed thereabout behold two men stood them shining garments joh and seeth two angels white sitting the one the head and the other the feet where the body jesus had lain belief that the disciples stole jesus body matthew says the guard was paid tell this story but other gospel makes this claim appearences the risen jesus matthew says angel the tomb told the two marys and that jesus also told them tell the disciples meet him galilee the disciples then went mountain previously agreed opon and met jesus there this was his only appearance except the women the tomb matthew only devotes five verses the visit with the disciples mark says that jesus walked with two the disciples the country and that they told the rest the disciples who refused believe later appeared the disciples mealtime luke says two followers went the same day that jesus rose from the dead emmaus village eight miles from jeruselem and there jesus jioned them but was unrecognised while they ate meal together that evening they finally recognised jesus whereopon dissapeared returning once jeruselem they told the disciples their experience and suddenly jesus appeared among them frightening them they thought was spirit jesus then ate some fish and honey and then preached them john says jesus appeared the disciples the evening the day arrose jeruselem where they were hiding breathed the holy ghost opon them but thomas was not present and refused believe eight days later jesus joined the disciples again the same place and this time convinced thomas once more jesus made appearance the disciples the sea tiberias but again was not recognised after telling them cast their netson the other side the boat jesus becomes known them and prepares bread and fish for them they all eat together and converse the book acts further adds the confusion says that jesus showed himself the apostles for period days after his resurection thus contradicting matthew mark luke and john and spoke them things pertaining the kingdom god and when had spoken these things while they beheld was taken and cloud recieved him out their sight and while they looked steadfastly toward heaven went two men stood them white apparel which also said men galilee why stand gazing into heaven this same jesus which taken from you into heaven shall comein like manneras have seen him into heaven acts paul outdoes every other authority saying that jesus was seen persons between the time the resurection and the assension although does not say where also claims that himself one born out due time also saw jesus cor the ascension matthew says nothing about mark casually says that jesus was recieved into heaven after was finished talking with the disciples jeruselem luke says jesus led the desciples bethany and that while blessed them was parted from them and carried into heaven john says nothing about acts contradicts all the above see previous section when second coming mat verily say unto you this generation shall not pass till all these things fulfilled mar verily say unto you that this generation shall not pass till all these things done luk verily say unto you this generation shall not pass away till all fulfilled thessalonians how many apostles were office between the resurection and ascention corinthians matthew minus one from acts mathias not elected until after resurrection mat then the eleven disciples went away into galilee into mountain where jesus had appointed them ascend heaven and elijah went whirlwind into heaven kings man hath ascended heaven but that came down from heaven the son man john you can see there are number contradictions the account the trial crucifiction and resurection jesus these are good witnesses you would think that they could get some these important details right fact cannot find very many points where they agree you would think that they could least agree some the points they were supposedly observing because the fact that there much contradiction and error the story the resurection presented cannot taken literal truth due the nature the story doubt should taken any sort truth alan
alt.atheism	albert sabin from wpr atlanta com bill rawlins newsgroups alt atheism organization dgsid atlanta the problem that most scientists exclude the possibility the supernatural the question origins this fair premise utterly reject the hypothesis that science the highest form truth better than the crap that the creationists put out far all they have been able manage distortions and half truths when they are not taking quotes out context some these called human like creatures were apes some were humans some were fancifully reconstructed from fragments the genetic code has shown more about how man realted primates that the fossil record little detail the creationists try and ignore good deeds not justify person god sight atonement jesus needed atone for sin who says your bible would surprised any christian followed all the rules the bible most them just pick and choose according the local biases point god the creator look like agree where your proof how you know was your god send you some info via mail regards bill why not post them would interested seeing them myself alan
alt.atheism	after years can say that christian morality theory creationism theistic view the theory creationism there are many others stated genesis the beginning god created the heavens and the earth and which order creation you accept the story creation one the many places the bible where the story contradicts itself the following example gen and god made the beast the earth after his kind and cattle after their kind and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind and god saw that was good gen and god said let make man our image after our likeness and let them have dominion over the fish the sea and over the fowl the air and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth gen and the lord god said not good that the man should alone will make him help meet for him gen and out the ground the lord god formed every beast the field and every fowl the air and brought them unto adam see what would call them and whatsoever adam called every living creature that was the name thereof even your bible cannot agree how things were created why should believe alan
alt.atheism	some thoughts from house helios usq edu ron house newsgroups alt atheism organization university southern queensland bissda saturn wwc edu dan lawrence bissell writes first want start right out and say that christian know shouldn get involved but bit deleted the book says that jesus was either liar was crazy modern day koresh was actually who said was rest rant deleted this standard argument for fundies can you spot the falicy the statement arguing from the assumption that jesus actually existed far they have not been able offer real proof that existance most them try using the very flawed writings josh mcdowell and others prove but those writers use very flawed sources they are real sources all some are not when will they ever learn real research instead believing the drivel sold the christian bookstores righto dan try this one with your cornflakes the book says that muhammad was either liar was crazy modern day mad mahdi was actually who said was some reasons why wouldn liar are follows who would die for lie wouldn people able tell was liar people gathered around him and kept doing many gathered from hearing seeing how his son law made the sun stand still call fool but believe did make the sun stand still niether was lunatic would more than entire nation drawn someone who was crazy very doubtful fact rediculous for example anyone who drawn the mad mahdi obviously fool logical people see this right away therefore since wasn liar lunatic must have been the real thing nice rebutal alan
alt.atheism	help you god court bobbe vice robert beauchaine yayg pontificated guess don understand the problem never had any problem swearing and using the name god the same sentence comes quite naturally matter facxt would guess that you either mean that you don have problem swearing aligance non existant being that you are being deliberatily dense considering what group this doesn come quite naturally nonbelievers such myself even followers other religions would you say would quite natural you were forced swear allah budda james green jgreen oboe calpoly edu all times and all nations the priest has been hostile liberty thomas jefferson
alt.atheism	alleged deathbed conversions was asimov stamp article sheafferc brs netcom com sheaffer netcom com robert sheaffer writes had happen the old allegation the deathbed conversion the noted unbeliever other examples what all these deathbed conversion claims have common that they are utterly unsubstantiated and almost certainly untrue would not too quick say that they are almost certainly untrue even strong minded people may fall back childhood indoctrination grasp straws other strange things when faced with extreme suffering not mention physiological problems which may lead diminished mental capacity the risk restarting old argument and accusations appeal authority remind readers what posted while back kind obituary for the late atheist albert sabin old interview rebroadcast public radio just after his death told about time few years before when was stricken with very serious illness admitted having cried out god while critically ill and respirator turned out recovered and lived several more years after his recovery attributed this early indoctrination don say couldn happen you that hasn happened others even you are one the few people who have experienced things like this people are different admire sabin for admitting his human weakness that instance would not think less asimov for similar weakness nevertheless agree that these reports are unsubstantiated and may well untrue any case they are not evidence for anything besides the power early indoctrination and human frailty bill mayne
alt.atheism	yet more rushdie islamic law article edu jaeger buphy edu gregg jaeger writes deletion that was the original answer while does not say that has the head necessarily its ass would meaningless and pointless was not insinuated don see header referring bob the poster whom was responding distinctly remember thinking was responding you when wrote this which case would make apologies but the event that was fact responding bob hereby apologize bob for insinuating such thing sorry bob the other hand could that ben has his head far his ass that can tell himself from bob sorry gregg was answer post mine and you are quite fond using abusing language whenever you think your religion misrepresented the way have trouble telling apart from bob beauchaine still wait for your answer that the quran allows you beat your wife into submission you were quite upset about the claim that was more correct you said wasn asked you about what your consequences were case would the quran but you have simply ceased respond that thread can that you have found out the meantime that the holy book what are your consequences now was your being upset just show you simple inherit your morals from book suddenly now correct say that the words muhammad reflect the primitive machism his society have you spent your time with your new gained freedom benedikt
alt.atheism	alleged deathbed conversions was asimov stamp article panix com carlf panix com carl fink writes sheafferc brs netcom com sheaffer netcom com robert sheaffer writes deletion had happen the old allegation the deathbed conversion the noted unbeliever seem recall similar claims being made about voltaire mencken darwin ingersoll etc indeed the literary hoax attributed nietzsche sister and portrays him trembling fear before divine judgment and was recently issued amok books with introduction lutheran professor telling why should take seriously what all these deathbed conversion claims have common that they are utterly unsubstantiated and almost certainly untrue perhaps the least believable and most infurating alleged conversion was that tom paine reported like most only his devout relatives asimov was very unlikely convert christianity his deathbed return judaism perhaps did revert childhood training but christianity the good doctor would more likely have converted hinduism isaac asimov read creationist books read the bible had ample opportunity kneel before his creator and savior refused fact sent out strong promotional letter urging support the american humanist association shortly before died excerpt from ken ham asimov meets his creator back genesis june included acts facts vol june from the institute for creation research this one the most offensive articles they ever published but least argues against deathbed conversion there part the article even worse than what just quoted which excerpt from reader letter says that asimov burning hell now then certainly has had degree change his former beliefs about creation and the creator post deathbed conversion jim lippard lippard ccit arizona edu dept philosophy lippard arizvms bitnet university arizona tucson
comp.graphics	quicktime performance was rumours about with all the discussion about observed playback speeds with quicktime the effects scaling and thought some more tests first all felt that original speed test was perhaps less than realistic the movie had been using only had frames was version the very first movie created with the compact video compressor decided something little longer would give closer real world results for better for worse pulled out copy space odyssey that had recorded off while back about fifteen minutes into the movie there sequence where the earth shuttle approaching the space station specifically digitized portion about seconds duration zooming the rotating space station figured this would give reasonable amount movement between frames increase the differences between frames digitized only frames per second give total frames captured the raw footage resolution pixels with the spigot card centris quarter size resolution from pal source then imported into premiere and put through the compact video compressor keeping the fps frame rate created two versions the movie one scaled resolution the other resolution used the default quality setting premiere and specified key frame every ten frames then ran the movie through the same raw speed test program used for the results been reporting earlier result playback rate over frames per second that right was getting much higher result than with that first short test movie just for fun copied the movie external hard disk quantum and ran from there this time the playback rate was only about frames per second obviously the internal hard disk also quantum significant contributor the speed playback modified speed test program allow the specification optional scaling factors and tried playing back the movie scaled size this time the playback speed was over fps clearly the poster who observed poor performance scaled playback was seeing quicktime action not try tests with quicktime but don think entirely compatible with centris and system unscaled the playback rate for the movie was over fps the other thing tried was saving versions the movie with preferred playback rates greater than and seeing how well they played from within movieplayer with quicktime normal synchronized playback preferred rate fps didn work too well the playback was very jerky compare this with the raw speed test which achieved fps with ease can believe that quicktime synchronization code would add this much overhead think the slowdown was coming from the mac system task switching preferred rate fps seemed work fine couldn see any evidence stutter fps think could see slight stutter but with four key frames every second was hard tell guess could try recreating the movies with longer interval between the key frames make the stutter more noticeable course this will also improve the compression slightly which should speed the playback performance even more lawrence oliveiro fone computer services dept fax university waikato electric mail ldo waikato hamilton new zealand gmt
comp.graphics	icn msdos pbm pgm ppm format have many icons iconedit and pbicon format and would like convert them pbm pgm ppm format you know the formats iconedit pbicon thank for your help rene kiwi iis ethz
comp.graphics	bit graphics howdy all oehler yar wisc edu wonko the sane writes was recently talking possible employer mine and made reference bit graphics computer image processing system seem remember being called image something akin that anyway claimed had bit color bit alpha channel that bits info what could that possibly for specifically the bit color that trillion colors many more than the human eye can resolve this anti aliasing thing this just some magic number make work better with certain processor hmm bit aye well beats bit design for thee sake ellegance bit means bits per primary colour the colours bit misleading makes more sense see possible shades pure red this might actually make some sense since shades red bit colours may produce visible jumps intensity then again byte per primary colour for each pixel the most elegant way doing colour graphics because leaves such tidy and fast program code take care bram flying nack the trick bram stolk stolk fwi uva throw yourself the ground dept maths computer science and miss douglas adams university amsterdam dont use windoze prefer linux
comp.graphics	help need bits viewer looking for program which able display bits images are using sun sparc equipped with parallax graphics board running thanks advance
comp.graphics	human body data sets needed urgently all looking for datasets human body head any the popular formats doing presentation tomorrow which could greatly enhanced bringing this human factor looked around the net with sucess far anyone got any ideas also appreciate info the location datasets for the uss enterprise any model thanks advance ronan
comp.graphics	why does illustrator autotrace poorly mac utkvx bitnet richard mcdougald writes article vmcbrt diablo uucp diablo uucp cboesel charles boesel writes these application softwares using but even how come one hasn been written knowledge mean even hijaak one the commercial industry standards file conversion hasn attempted yet adobe streamline has been out four couple years does much better job than the autotracing functions which are built into illustration programs course higher resolution bitmap will produce more accurate trace the problem that run into though that when creates detailed trace produces way more points than are necessary trace something manually use many less points the problem with this produces big files which slow everything down especially printing chuck
comp.graphics	wanted scott leatham microsoft hello there few days ago got mail concerning bitmap stretching from scott leatham microsoft redmond usa really would like answer back him but have lost his email address scott anybody that knows his email address reads this please mail his address can answer his mail please mail efd lth thanks tomas
comp.graphics	pov problems with tga outputs remember that the unix versions pov don create tga but qrt file format output default needed make tga brain inside andre beck abpsoft mehl andre beck irs inf dresden
comp.graphics	pov ray problem please help what about qrttoppm file dis ppmtotga file tga brain inside andre beck abpsoft mehl andre beck irs inf dresden
comp.graphics	why does illustrator autotrace poorly mac utkvx bitnet richard mcdougald writes since there not really such thing decent raster vector conversion program this tracing technique about simple stuff like logos etc pretty well while more complicated stuff goes haywire the first and only thing ever tried auto trace was piece uscg nautical chart using adobe illustrator wanted get the outline the coast for western long island sound was simultaneously suprised how good job did and disappointed how poorly did suspect what gave was very difficult thing not only the coastline very irregular but overlaid the chart are numerous sets gridlines not only lattitude and longitude but loran grids well the most common mistake make was whenever the coastline was roughly parallel and tangent grid line would take off following the gridline instead the coast think the best improvement would some sort interactive algorithm that would let you step and say dummy you going the wrong way steve reisberg friend mine few years back did his doctoral work analysing electron micrographs filimentous phage virii good chunk the work was writing program take digitized micrograph and automatically trace the centerline the virus particles this essentially the same problem that illustrator tries solve with its auto trace tool some respects the problem steve worked was harder since was trying quantitative analysis the virus structure and finding good centerline was only the first step but step which all future analysis depended however other respects was easier problem since the program could written with lot knowledge about what the virus particles were supposed look like and the analysis could restricted those particles which happend relatively straight clean and well imaged you don always have that freedom auto tracing real life images any case gave some insight into just how difficult this problem solve the general case steve longer with and his wife disappeared while vacation hawaii couple years after they graduated their last known location was hiking densely wooded mountainous area while bodies were ever found they are presumed have been the victim some sort fall accident the woods roy smith roy nyu edu hippocrates project department microbiology coles nyu school medicine first avenue new york this never happened bart simpson
comp.graphics	rumours about johnm spudge lonestar org john munsch writes article lot rapnbh viamar uucp rutgers viamar kmembry writes read issue wired magazine has long article the hype noticed that every article talks with the designers and how great but never show any pictures the output least pictures that one can understand gamepro magazine published pictures few months ago and computer chronicles program that syndicated public stations around the nation spent several minutes when was shown ces was very impressive what can real time john munsch the april edition mix magazine carries story which includes pictures the unit schematic what inside and some indication from the people where they intend and what stages mix trade rag aimed the professional sound engineering community the schematic shows central dma engine connecting and mediating between two graphics animation processors bit bus bit risc processor with math processor video decomp module control port expansion port where hangs its double fast player dram optional video port for editing video and the outbound side vram video processor chain parallel with dsp sound chain they promise red book quality audio full fps video and future connection path your via expansion card not informed enough have opinion about the various means and methods discussed here the article written philip lancie does cover the other machines mentioned this thread come from the tcp world and see tremendous potential for bringing connectedness the educated consumer seems have the right business partners make this happen hope this helps david shute email dks world std com
comp.graphics	real earlier today read for real animation ray tracing software and looked very convincing however don own amiga and began wonder there version has anyone seen used real for dos rauno rene haapaniemi every word are true haapanatie except for those that are lies oulu reneh otol douglas adams
comp.graphics	hallusion info has anyone seen hallusions you can buy poster them and looks like simple dot pattern when you first look but you focus behind you see picture looking for program that generates these pictures there company texas that makes them but doubt they giving the program away any help would appreciated
comp.graphics	cgm something preferably pcx does anybody know about converter from cgm pcx anything else more common spent some time searching the archives with luck could you email your responses thx advance mike jupiter sun csd unb
comp.graphics	kubota kenai denali does anyone have any real experience with the kubota kenai denali series graphics workstations they pretty much blow the pants off sgi machines and sun machines the same price point which about bucks real nice stuff but only seen the stuff paper wondering there anything not like the specs are too massive get into here but summary desired could coaxed into uploading the spec sheet brian
comp.graphics	there ftp achive for usgs terrain dat try spectrum xerox com pub map dem
comp.graphics	real rauno haapaniemi raunoh otol wrote earlier today read for real animation ray tracing software and looked very convincing yes looks like very good indeed however don own amiga and began wonder there version nope regards email mattias matt dah dsv love
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed osprey cso uiuc edu lucas adamski writes article pdxgate uucp idr rigel pdx edu ian romanick writes what kind polygons shaded texturemapped more comes into play with fast routines than just polygons would nice know exaclty what system vga start but what processor and few the specifics the implementation you need give more info you want get any answers don want texture mapped cause did asked for them just simple and fast routine filled polygons for the processor for minimum maybe can find good one for ideally want polyn function that can clip user defined viewport and write arbitrary location memory course the chances for game that and you have listed the characteristics that you are looking for think you may have left out few important parameters the polygons are all convex they have less than sides you are drawing meshes walls doors etc believe that the algorithms you can get that will only draw convex polygons can much more efficient than those that can draw concave self intersecting polygons this efficiency can largely attributed the fact that simple convex polygons only have left and right edge each scan line complex figure type polygons can bit trickier the less than sides specification especially very small number like allow othe optimisations made thus for high speed game application think you are looking for code that exploits and hence limited drawing simple convex polygons finding something like that are pretty remote guess need the source with and guess would need asm otherwise too slow seen some polygon routines and they all been waaay too slow its for vector graphics program been hunting high and low may have been that they were very general purpose algorithms you limit yourself four sided simple convex polygons think you might suprised how fast algorithm with asm block move fill each scan line might actually for polyn function asm and can find one anywhere that can use found one two polyn functions but asm pretty bad won even try rewrite them lucas
comp.graphics	apr comp graphics frequently asked questions faq archive name graphics faq this message automatically posted once week effort cut down the repetitive junk comp graphics was last changed apr you have answers other frequently asked questions that you would like included this posting please send mail you don want see this posting every week please add the subject line your kill file thank you your copy the faq more than couple weeks old you may want seek out the most recent version the latest version this faq always available the archive site pit manager mit edu alias rtfm mit edu pub usenet news answers graphics faq john john grieggs grieggs jpl devvax jpl nasa gov johng portal com last update apr sorry haven posted this for couple weeks but was called out town due death the family this reality folks what new siggraph online bibliography project spencer cgrg ohio state edu grieggs jpl devvax jpl nasa gov contents general references for graphics questions drawing three dimensional objects two dimensional screen quantizing bit images down bits converting color into grayscale quantizing grayscale black white rotating raster image arbitrary angle free image manipulation software format documents for tiff iff biff nff off fits etc converting between vector formats how get pixar films how draw circle bezier spline curve how order standards documents how ftp email how tell whether point within planar polygon how tessellate sphere specific references ray tracing and global illumination siggraph information online siggraph panels proceedings available graphics mailing lists specific references file formats what about gif what morphing how ray trace height fields how find the area polygon how join acm siggraph where can find mri and scan volume data specific references spatial data structures including quadtrees and octrees where can get program plot data data specific references pex and phigs siggraph online bibliography project general references for graphics questions computer graphics principles and practice foley van dam feiner hughes addison wesley isbn procedural elements for computer graphics david rogers mcgraw hill isbn mathematical elements for computer graphics david rogers and alan adams mcgraw hill isbn three dimensional computer graphics alan watt addison wesley isbn introduction ray tracing andrew glassner academic press isbn graphics gems andrew glassner academic press isbn graphics gems james arvo academic press isbn graphics gems iii david kirk academic press isbn with ibm disk with mac disk digital image warping george wolberg ieee computer society press monograph isbn digital image processing rafael gonzalez paul wintz addison wesley isbn programmer geometry adrian bowyer john woodwark butterworths isbn pbk automatic mail handler brown university allows users computer graphics principles and practice foley van dam feiner and hughes obtain text errata and information distribution the software packages described the book also users can send the authors feedback report text errors and software bugs make suggestions and submit exercises receive information describing how you can use the mail handler simply mail graphtext brown edu and put the word help the subject line use the subject line software distribution receive information specifically concerning the software packages srgp and sphigs errata for introduction ray tracing available wuarchive wustl edu graphics graphics books introtort errata errata for digital image warping the same directory digital image warping errata all code from the graphics gems series available via anonymous ftp from princeton edu look the directory pub graphics graphicsgems for the various volumes gems gemsii gemsiii and get the readme file first errata graphics gems and graphics gems available wuarchive wustl edu graphics graphics books list computer graphics computational geometry and image processing journals available from juhana kouhia tut drawing three dimensional objects two dimensional screen the simple answer you divide the depth for more verbose explanation see any the above references starting with the foley van dam feiner hughes computer graphics book certainly good start chapter viewing then read chapter visible surface determination for more information chapter for shading chapter for clipping and branch out from there quantizing bit images down bits find copy color image quantization for frame buffer display paul heckbert siggraph proceedings page there are other algorithms but this one works well and fairly simple implementations are included most raster toolkits see item below variant method described graphics gems note that the code from the graphics gems series all available from ftp site described above check out john bradley diversity algorithm which incorporated into the package and described the back the manual the imagemagick package see section for where contains another quantizing algorithm which presented doing better job than the other algorithms but slower there also implementation wan wong and prusinkiewicz algorithm for multidimensional data clustering transactions mathematical software vol june avialable princeton edu pub graphics colorquant shar this code modified form appears the utah raster toolkit well converting color into grayscale the ntsc formula luminosity red green blue quantizing grayscale black white the only reference you need for this stuff digital halftoning robert ulichney mit press isbn but before you off and start coding check out the image manipulation software mentioned item below all the packages mentioned can some form gray conversion rotating raster image arbitrary angle the obvious but wrong method loop over the pixels the source image transform each coordinate and copy the pixel the destination this wrong because leaves holes the destination instead loop over the pixels the destination image apply the reverse transformation the coordinates and copy that pixel from the source this method quite general and can used for any one one mapping not just rotation you can add anti aliasing doing sub pixel sampling however there much faster method with antialising included which involves doing three shear operations the method was originally created for the raster toolkit see below implementation also present pbmplus reference fast algorithm for raster rotation alan paeth awpaeth watcgl waterloo edu graphics interface vancouver article the toolkit appears the same journal updated version the rotation paper appears graphics gems see section under the original title free image manipulation software there are number toolkits for converting from one image format another doing simple image manipulations such size scaling plus the above mentioned color gray gray conversions here are pointers some them john bradley based image display manipulation and format conversion package displays many image formats and permits editing gif files among others the program was updated see the file contrib tar export lcs mit edu pbmplus jef poskanzer comprehensive format conversion and image manipulation package the latest version always available via anonymous ftp ftp lbl gov pbmplus tar wuarchive wustl edu graphics graphics packages pbmplus pbmplus tar and export lcs mit edu contrib pbmplus tar raster toolkit alan paeth awpaeth watcgl uwaterloo provides portable and efficient format and related toolkit the format versatile supporting pixels arbitrary channels components and bit precisions while allowing compression and machine byte order independence the kit contains more than tools with extensive support image manipulation digital halftoning and format conversion previously distributed tape the university waterloo ftp version will appear someday utah rle toolkit conversion and manipulation package similar pbmplus available via ftp utah edu pub urt princeton edu pub graphics urt and freebie engin umich edu pub urt fuzzy pixmap manipulation michael mauldin mlm cmu edu conversion and manipulation package similar pbmplus version available via ftp cmu edu usr mlm ftp fbm tar ftp net pub fbm tar and ucsd edu graphics fbm tar img software set paul raveling raveling venera isi edu reads and writes its own image format displays screen and does some image manipulations version available via ftp export lcs mit edu contrib img tar and venera isi edu pub img tar along with large collection color images xim image manipulator philip thompson does essential interactive image manipulations and uses and the osf motif toolkit for the interface supports images and bit formats reads writes and converts from gif xwd xbm tiff rle xim and other formats writes level postscript other utilities and image application library are included not paint package available via ftp from gis mit edu xloadimage jim frost madd std com reads images various formats and displays them screen available via ftp export lcs mit edu contrib xloadimage and your nearest comp sources archive xli grame gill updated xloadimage with numerous improvements both speed and the number formats supported available the same places xloadimage contrib tape comp sources archives tiff software sam leffler sam okeeffe berkeley edu nice portable library for reading and writing tiff files plus few tools for manipulating them and reading other formats available via ftp ucbvax berkeley edu pub tiff tar ftp net graphics tiff tar xtiff tool for viewing tiff file was written handle many different kinds tiff files possible while remaining simple portable and efficient xtiff illustrates some common problems with building pixmaps and using different visual classes distributed part sam leffler libtiff package and also available export lcs mit edu ftp net and comp sources xtiff was announced includes xlib and versions alv sun specific image toolkit version posted comp sources sun dec also available via email alv users request bris popi image manipulation language version posted comp sources misc dec imagemagick package for display and interactive manipulation images includes tools for image conversion annotation compositing animation and creating montages imagemagick can read and write many the more popular image formats available via ftp export lcs mit edu contrib imagemagick tar khoros huge meg graphical development environment based khoros components include visual programming language code generators for extending the visual language and adding new application packages the system interactive user interface editor interactive image display package extensive library image and signal processing routines and plotting packages available via ftp pprg eece unm edu pub khoros laboimage sunview based image processing and analysis package includes more than image manipulation processing and measurement routines line help plus tools such image editor color table editor and several biomedical utilities available via anonymous ftp ads com pub vision list archive shareware laboimage tar the san diego supercomputer center image tools software tools for reading writing and manipulating raster images binaries for some machines available via anonymous ftp sdsc edu sdscpub the independent jpeg group has written package for reading and writing jpeg files ftp ftp net graphics jpeg jpegsrc tar don forget set binary mode when you ftp tar files for you milnet folks who still don have name servers the addresses are ads com utah edu coral jcu edu export lcs mit edu freebie engin umich edu ftp lbl gov ftp net gis mit edu gondwana ecr karazm math edu marsh curtin edu nic funet fir ftp ncsa uiuc edu cmu edu pit manager mit edu pprg eece unm edu princeton edu sdsc edu ucbvax berkeley edu venera isi edu weedeater math yale edu wuarchive wustl edu zamenhof rice edu please not post mail messages saying can ftp could someone mail this there are number automated mail servers that will send you things like this response message see item below for details some also the newsgroup alt graphics pixutils specifically for discussion software like this you may find useful information there format documents for tiff iff biff nff off fits etc you almost certainly don need these read the above item free image manipulation software get one more these packages and look through them chances are excellent that the image converter you were going write already there but you still want one the format documents many such files are available anonymous ftp from zamenhof rice edu directory pub graphics formats these files were collected off the net and are believed correct this archive includes pixel formats and two and three dimensional object formats the future this archive uncertain the moment mark hall foo rice edu will apparently longer maintaining second graphics file format archive now being actively maintained quincey koziol koziol ncsa uiuc edu the latest version exists ftp ncsa uiuc edu misc file formats graphics formats apparently neither these complete you might want check both fits stands for flexible image transport system file format most often used astronomy despite the name can contain not only images but other things well there regular monthly fits basics and information posting sci astro fits read you want know more converting between vector formats lot people ask about converting from hpgl postscript macdraw cgm whatever important understand that this very different problem from the image format conversions item converting one image format another fairly easy problem since once you get past all the file header junk pixel pixel the basic objects are the same for all image formats this not for vector formats the basic objects circles ellipses drop shadowed pattern filled round cornered rectangles etc vary from one format another except extremely restricted cases simply not possible one one conversion between vector formats there software for converting and from cgm files ftp psc edu the contributor states that runs unix windows and possibly the mac better more specific blurb would most welcome the other hand quite possible close approximation rendering image from one format using the primitives from another far know one has put together general toolkit such converters but two different hpgl postscript converters have been posted comp sources misc check the index your nearest archive site related frequent question how convert from some vector format bitmapped image from postscript sun raster format hpgl bitmap for example some the commercial postscript clones for allow you render disk file well printer also the postscript interpreters the next box and sun news can used render file you clever but general the answer however someone were put together vector vector conversion toolkit adding vector raster converter would trivial gnu ghostscript from the fsf current version includes drivers for both ppm and gif format files thus can used postscript ppm postscript gif filter implements essentially all postscript level and alot display postscript and level how get pixar films the various john lasseter pixar computer animated shorts are available video tape you can order them from direct cinema limited film individual price institutional price luxo red dream tin toy knickknack luxo red dream tin toy all tapes are vhs ntsc add tape for pal format also available tin toy shirt knickknack shirt includes glasses for individual orders add for the first tape shirt for each additional tape shirt for institutional orders add for the first tape for each additional tape foreign shipping add tape shirt call international fax charge your credit card call first verify prices and availability just write direct cinema limited street santa monica allan braunsdorf has this say siggraph they were selling tape with all four shorts for that was sale price you can get for slightly more than that normally maybe believe available from renderman retail pixar address pixar west cutting blvd richmond fax you can obtain video directly from pixar which contains luxo red dream tin toy and knicknack for plus for shipping they will take your order over the phone via fax with major credit card ordered mine just last week and received several days later don expect able rent copy from your local video store according the license agreement printed the back cover the case cannot rented how draw circle bezier spline curve the short answer you can unless you use rational spline you can only approximate circle the approximation may look acceptable but sensitive scale magnify the scale and the error approximation magnifies deviations from circularity that were not visible the small can become glaring the large you want the job right consult the article menagerie rational spline circles leslie piegl and wayne tiller ieee computer graphics and applications volume number september pages for rough non rational approximations consult the book computational geometry for design and manufacture faux and pratt ellis horwood publishers halsted press john wiley for the best known non rational approximations consult the article good approximation circles curvature continuous bezier curves tor dokken morten daehlen tom lyche and knut morken computer aided geometric design volume numbers combined june pages elsevier science publishers north holland how order standards documents the american national standards institute sells ansi standards and also iso international standards their sales office mailing address broadway helps you have the complete name and number some useful numbers know cgm computer graphics metafile iso gks graphical kernel system ansi phigs programmer hierarchical interactive graphics system ansi iges asme ansi language bindings are often separate but related numbers for example the gks fortran binding standards progress are made available key milestones solicit comments from the graphical public this includes you ansi can let you know where order them most are available from global engineering how ftp email there are number sites that archive the usenet sources newsgroups and make them available via email query system you send message automated server saying something like send comp sources unix fbm and few hours days later you get the file the mail addition there least one ftp mail server send mail ftpmail decwrl dec com saying help and will tell you how use note that this service has times been turned off due abuse how tell whether point within planar polygon consider ray originating the point interest and continuing infinity crosses odd number polygon edges along the way the point within the polygon the ray crosses even number edges the point either outside the polygon within interior hole formed from intersecting polygon edges this idea known the trade the jordan curve theorem see eric haines article glassner ray tracing book above for more information including treatment special cases another method sum the absolute angles from the point all the vertices the polygon the sum the point inside the sum the point outside however this method about order magnitude slower than the previous method because evaluating the trigonometric functions usually quite costly code for both methods plus barycentric triangle testing can found the ray tracing news vol available from princeton edu pub graphics rtnews rtnv how tessellate sphere one simple way recursive subdivision into triangles the base the recursion octahedron and then each level divides each triangle into four smaller ones jon leech leech unc edu has posted nice routine called sphere that generates the coordinates available for ftp ftp lbl gov and princeton edu specific references ray tracing and global illumination rick speer maintains cross indexed ray tracing bibliography highlights this edition more than citations spanning the period from through november papers from all siggraph graphics interface eurographics international and ausgraph proceedings through december iii all citations keyworded for easy lookup cross indices keyword and author glossary the keywords used the bib the form postscript file the printout pages long below list ftp sites and the dirs that contain the file named speer raytrace bib and compressed most sites site dir wuarchive wustl edu graphics graphics bib bib speer karazm math edu pub graphics gondwana ecr pub papers nic funet pub sci papers graphics coral jcu edu graphics papers eric haines erich eye com maintains ray tracing and radiosity global illumination bibliographies these are refer format and can searched electronically simple awk script search for keywords included with each the bibliographies are available most the sites listed above and the most current versions are maintained princeton edu pub graphics papers raybib and radbib tom wilson wilson ucf edu has collected over abstracts from ray tracing related research papers and books the information essentially plaintext and latex and troff formatting programs are included this collection available most the sites above rtabs siggraph information online from steve cunningham and ralph orlick acm siggraph announces its online information site siggraph org this site now provides siggraph information via both anonymous ftp and electronic mail archive server the anonymous ftp service very standard and the ftp directory includes both conference and publications subdirectories retrieve information electronic mail send mail archive server siggraph org and the subject the body the message include the message send followed the topic and subtopic you wish good place start with the command send index which will give you date list available information siggraph panels proceedings available from steve cunningham and bob judd acm siggraph announces the availability the siggraph panels proceedings the siggraph org site the proceedings are available three formats text ascii rtf rich text format suitable for many word processors word word for the macintosh they may retrieved from siggraph org two ways anonymous ftp change one the directories publications panels proceedings text rtf word the text and rtf files may downloaded ascii mode while the word files are stored macbinary format and must downloaded binary mode each directory contains table contents file toc that describes the contents each panel file electronic mail send mail archive server siggraph org you can retrieve either the text rtf files suggest that you first retrieve the index files putting one the messages send panel txt index send panel rtf index the subject body the message you will get the necessary information retrieve the actual transcript files graphics mailing lists there are variety graphics related mailing list out there each covering either single product single topic have been active participant one these for some time now and find the focus and expertise which can brought bear isolated topic nothing short amazing please send the appropriate information you have any others you would like see added name imagine mailing list description discussion forum for users the imagine rendering and animation package impulse inc platforms amiga ibm subscription imagine request email paramax com posting imagine email paramax com name dctv mailing list description discussion forum for users the digital creations dctv box software and file formats platforms amiga subscription dctv request nova purdue edu posting dctv nova purdue edu name rayshade users mailing list description discussion forum for users the rayshade raytracer platforms most unix boxes amiga mac ibm subscription rayshade request princeton edu posting rayshade users princeton edu name lightwave software for toaster mailing list description discussion forum for users lightwave the video toaster modelling and rendering package platforms amiga subscription lightwave request bobsbox rent com with subscribe lightwave your message posting lightwave bobsbox rent com name pov mailing list description discussion forum for dkbtrace and pov renderers platforms unix subscription listserv trearn bitnet posting dkb trearn bitnet name mailing list for massive parallel rendering description same platforms unix subscription render request icase edu posting render icase edu specific references file formats graphics file formats david kay and john levine windcrest mcgraw hill isbn paper isbn hardcover isbn paper comments formats software this good imho prefer books which are non platform dependent questions about this book may sent gbook iecc cambridge what about gif gif stands for graphics interchange format portable and usable upon wide variety platforms quite limited some ways yes the keeper the faq has some opinions after all and fact don like much however looks like the most frequently asked question which was not previously covered this list the following list newsgroups and the like where one could find out about gif subject alt binaries pictures faq general info subject alt binaries pictures faq specific info newsgroups alt binaries pictures alt binaries pictures misc alt binaries pictures utilities alt binaries pictures fractals alt binaries pictures fine art news answers available the indicated usenet newsgroup via anonymous ftp from pit manager mit edu the files pub usenet news answers pictures faq part pub usenet news answers pictures faq part also available from mail server pit manager mit edu sending mail message containing any all send usenet news answers pictures faq part send usenet news answers pictures faq part send message containing help get general information about the mail server also you could check out the resources described sections and above for more information what morphing warping the deformation image mapping each pixel new location morphing blending from one image object another one valerie hall has written excellent introduction warping and morphing this available for anonymous ftp from marsh curtin edu the directory pub graphics bibliography morph there are three files morph intro postscript version many pictures morph intro txt text version responses responses morphing questions the files are compressed you must use binary transfer and uncompress them afterwards how ray trace height fields height fields are special case ray tracing they have number uses such terrain rendering and some optimization possible thus they get their own faq section note that further references can doubt located via the ray tracing bibs section above the following paper seems the definitive reference kenton musgrave grid tracing fast ray tracing for height fields july musg this available research report yaleu dcs from yale university also the siggraph fractal modeling computer graphics and imaging course notes and best all available the net nic funet pub sci papers musg weedeater math yale edu pub papers musg princeton edu pub graphics papers musg coral jcu edu graphics papers musg gondwana ecr pub papers musg and musg implementation this paper may found rayshade another paper exists david paglieroni sidney petersen parametric height field ray tracing proceedings graphics interface canadian information processing society toronto ontario may and still one more musgrave kolb and mace the synthesis and rendering eroded fractal terrains computer graphics vol siggraph procedings how find the area polygon the area triangle given notation area and the area planar polygon given area for area area area the area negative number the polygon triangle clockwise positive counterclockwise from ronald golman gem graphics gems see section above area planar polygons and volume polyhedra the area polygon not the plane given area polygon sigma where the unit vector normal the plane and polygonal vertex the represents the dot product operator and the represents the cross product operator sigma represents the summation operator represents the absolute value operator equal how join acm siggraph probably the easiest way join acm siggraph trot over your local technical library and find copy communications the acm somewhere within the first few pages will application blank fill out and mail acm membership for students costs voting associate membership yearly siggraph student membership costs additional for voting associate members also yearly get tog transactions graphics another for students and for voting associate members you just want join siggraph without joining acm cost you student discount there are surcharges for overseas airmailing publications acm member services may contacted via email acmhelp acmvm bitnet their phone number fax number snailmail address acm box church street station new york new york siggraph will held anaheim california the anaheim convention center just the street from disneyland august where can find mri and scan volume data volume data sets are available from the university north carolina omicron unc edu pub softlab chvrtd commerical use prohibited head data slice mri data set human head knee data slice mri data set human knee hipip data the result quantum mechanical calculation sod data one electron orbital hipip iron protein sod data electron density map the active site sod superoxide dismutase cadaver head data slice mri data set study cadaver head brain data slice mri data set head with skull partially removed reveal brain rna data electron density map for staphylococcus aureus ribonuclease specific references spatial data structures including quadtrees and octrees samet the design and analysis spatial data structures addison wesley reading isbn samet applications spatial data structures computer graphics image processing gis addison wesley reading isbn where can get program plot data data gnuplot command driven interactive data function plotting program runs just about any machine and very flexible terms supported output devices the official north american distribution site for the latest version dartmouth edu pub gnuplot more information available from the usenet newsgroup comp graphics gnuplot and its faq graphics gnuplot faq ace xmgr motif xvgr xview data function plotting tool for workstations terminals using available from ftp ccalmr ogi edu ccalmr pub acegr robotx robot general purpose plotting and data analysis program requires xview terminal workstation available from sunsite unc edu pub academic data analysis xgraph popular two dimensional plotting program that accepts data form similar the unix program graph and displays line graphs scatter plots bar charts display available from berkeley edu pub drawplot program for drawing plots windows sunview displays terminals available from xcf berkeley edu src local specific references pex and phigs pexlib programming manual tom gaskins pages reilly associates isbn pexlib reference manual edited steve talbott pages reilly associates isbn phigs programming manual tom gaskins pages reilly associates isbn softcover isbn casebound phigs reference manual edited linda kosko pages reilly associates isbn siggraph online bibliography project the acm siggraph online bibliography project database over unique computer graphics and computational geometry references bibtex format available the computer graphics community research and educational resource the database located siggraph org users may download the bibtex files via ftp and peruse them offline telnet siggraph org and log biblio and interactively search the database for entries interest keyword additions corrections suggestions may directed the admin bibadmin siggraph org john grieggs telos jet propulsion laboratory oak grove drive pasadena uucp cit vax elroy chas jpl devvax grieggs arpa jpl devvax grieggs cit vax arpa
comp.graphics	avi flc converter looking for small utility that will convert microsoft video avi file autodesk animator pro flc file since avis also contain sound would nice this utility also stored the sound track wav voc file currently accomplishing this saving the avi multiple dibs using video for windows then converting each dib gif then loading the gifs into animator for the sound load the original avi into wavedit and save seperate wav file this requires too many steps productive any help will greatly appreciated thanks don don campbell internet donc cognos com uucp cognos donc cognos inc mail box riverside drive ottawa ontario canada
comp.graphics	turning photographic images into thermal print and negatives not know hitting the right news groups not any help the right direction more than welcome need help finding company that will take photographic images scanned and modified adobe photoshop and turn them into thermal prints negatives looking for place close north carolina possible the images will created macintosh quadra running adobe photoshop and will then stored whatever format the vendor requires perhaps cartridges the images will black and white photographs scanned with dpi scanner then modified corrected adobe photoshop anyone could help even give phone numbers people who could would very grateful also anyone else doing what planning would happy hear from you with any advice you might provide the computer system you use and any peripherals software seemed the quadra would best bet modify photographic images planning buying quadra with megs ram meg hard drive dpi scanner sony monitor and meg cartridge drive and perhaps rom new computers and any advice would great david hawks seq uncwil edu hawks corning com
comp.graphics	need help find out the address several companies doing graphics lucas film pixar eye inc light magic thanks changyaw wangc indiana edu
comp.graphics	research positions graphics munich germany european computer research centre research positions graphics ecrc currently expanding its research staff three dimensional graphics are looking for highly qualified researchers with phd computer science and proven ability conduct highly innovative research preference will given candidates who have strong experience developing and implementing algorithms for three dimensional graphics visualization and user interaction presently have positions available for both experienced researchers and recent graduates candidates with especially strong backgrounds may considered for positions visiting scientists for student research positions the european computer industry research centre located munich germany with english the working language the centre funded consortium major computer companies with mission pursue research fundamental areas computer science active areas research include visualization and user interfaces distributed computing parallelism deductive systems and databases the center employs researchers different nationalities the small but rapidly growing graphics group currently investigating new methods for three dimensional human computer interaction and the integration computer vision and computer graphics technology the center has extensive computing facilities which includes sun workstations apple macintoshes well equipped graphics laboratory and network access super computer facilities ecrc offers competitive salaries and excellent benefits for immediate consideration send written application with curriculum vitae telephone number mail address and references douglas greer ecrc gmbh arabellastrasse munich germany
comp.graphics	wanted playmation info article apr osf org omar godzilla osf org mark marino writes folks does anyone have copy playmation they willing sell love try out but not for the retail playmation available direct from anjon associates for hard beat that price also you better off with newer version than older version that had bugs that have long since been clobbered thanks advance mark marino omar osf org uunet osf omar ken baer programmer animator hash enterprises usenet baer qiclab uucp applelink kenbaer office not hitchhiking anymore riding ren hoak
comp.graphics	bit graphics wonko the sane oehler yar wisc edu wrote was recently talking possible employer mine and made reference bit graphics computer image processing system seem remember being called image something akin that anyway claimed had bit color bit alpha channel that bits info what could that possibly for specifically the bit color that trillion colors many more than the human eye can resolve this anti aliasing thing this just some magic number make work better with certain processor pretty sure most industry strength image processing specific systems photo processing gear use much bits color info why why not oversampling never bad idea especially the hardware only task image manipulation and profressional photographers demand professional results also settle bet with roommate what are sgi flagship products know iris indigo and crimson but what are the other ones and which their top the line sadly have access none them just dec sigh strange question but anyway there the vgx line the newer indigo and the onyx systems are the new big boys the block you can get processor system with twice the graphics performance reality engine there more but don have handy periodic table sgi keith
comp.graphics	hallusion info sean murphy sean aries scs uiuc edu wrote has anyone seen hallusions you can buy poster them and looks like simple dot pattern when you first look but you focus behind you see picture looking for program that generates these pictures there company texas that makes them but doubt they giving the program away any help would appreciated there program included with the book virtual reality playhouse which will let you generate these pictures not very powerful program but does acceptable job for experimentation purposes davidr rincon ema rockwell com
comp.graphics	message for cgcad bart inescn cant get through the author rtrace his site inaccessible can upload the new version somewhere else please
comp.graphics	rfd for open telematic group for realtime multimedia online apps rfd request for discussion for the open telematic group otg have proposed the forming consortium task force for the promotion naplps jpeg fif openly discuss ways method procedures algorythms applications implementation extensions naplps jpeg standards these standards should facilitate the creation real time online applications that make use voice video telecommuting hires graphics conferencing distant learning online order entry fax addition these dicussion would assist all better understand how sgml cals oda mime oodbms jpeg mpeg fractals sql cdrom cdromxa kodak photocd tcl fast eia tia can best incorporated and implemented develop telematic multimedia applications want able support dos unix mac windows platforms our hope that individuals developers corporations universities labs would join supporting such endeavor this would not for profit group with bylaws and charter already many corporation have decided support otg open telematic group not delay joining you are developer rfd has been posted form usenet newsgroup and faq will soon compose start promulgating what known the subject you would like added the mailist send email mail the address below this group would publish electronic quarterly naplps jpeg newsletter well hardcopy version urge all who wants see cmcs hires based applications the naplps jpeg decide join and mutually benefit from this not for profit endeavor note telematic has been defined james martin the marriage voice video res graphics fax ivr music over telephone lines lan you would like get involve write img inter multimedia group internet epimntl world std com box pimentel gisatl fidonet org atlanta georgia cis fidonet bbs zyxel all that have responded are trying acknowledge soon possible have really been inundated with org corp edu willing get involve would nice upon responded you can state what capacity you are willing get involve edimg willard atl pimentel gatech vdbsan willard edimg emory uumind willard edimg willard house bbs atlanta
comp.graphics	inv normal array does anyone truely understand the invalid normal array error gives you while rendering seems present itself while rendering complicated images have circumvented this problem rendering the command line however would nice render inside the editor this memory problem craig
comp.graphics	format gif files could anyone tell the format gif files would like know how could determine the size the picture also are gif files compressed format how many bits store pixel color information this probally simple question but couldn find the faq email responses would perferred david lau davidla ecs comm mot com
comp.graphics	bit graphics good reason which why many companies use for bits pixel you can use double buffering for animating scenes you have bit planes you write the one the background and then flip the entire screen updates the second image plane the screen updates one refresh and you don see different objects appearing the order that they drawn the cad macdraw effect now your ready update the image that used the foreground steve thssstb iitmax iit edu iris iit edu about the product line who can even keep track nowadays every seems their ads press releases claim redefine computing etc etc know with each new product progress and competition are great but who wants invest system that obsolete the time reaches your desk
comp.graphics	why does illustrator autotrace poorly article vmcbrt diablo uucp diablo uucp cboesel charles boesel writes been trying figure out way get adobe illustrator auto trace exactly what see screen but misses the edges templates many pixels more resulting images that are useless need exact tracing not approximate tried adjusting the freehand tolerances well autotrace tolerances but doesn help any suggestions buy adobe streamline problem solved college men get smashed and break something college women get smashed and get broken robin wilson president ryan malayter chico state university stanford hall notre dame dept physics comp sci malayter edu
comp.graphics	oak vga driver available via ftp user bbs accidentally deleted his vga driver for his oak card and has backup was wondering someone knew ftp site and path please where such thing might obtained thanks there religion when man has good curry call the lizard den bbs yoda usenet nethack xix amiga tim clinkenpeel aberrant analytical skeptical agnostic idealist exclusively represent myself
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed article rguqoinnrc edna swin edu alan saturn swin alan christiansen writes believe that the algorithms you can get that will only draw convex polygons can much more efficient than those that can draw concave self intersecting polygons this efficiency can largely attributed the fact that simple convex polygons only have left and right edge each scan line complex figure type polygons can bit trickier true the convex algorithm faster than general concave multi outline algorithm but not tremendously faster spent awhile implementing and optimizing both flavors and the convex turned out about faster this all risc the compiler got the inner loop shooting the span fast possible far could tell for any sort game the database render known ahead time and can made all convex definitely the way sorry but code cannot made public domain jesse jesse lackey eye inc ithaca jesse eye com
comp.graphics	fast polygon routines needed looking for some fast polygon routines shaded texture mapped asm compile with masm turbo pascal compile with has able run but does not have look super fast but must look good anyone has any such code could you please mail tell where can got thanks advance daniel godden genius only one step away university western sydney nepean from insanity aarnet internet dgodden nepean usw edu but already there
comp.graphics	virtual reality for the cheap ridout bink plk mil brian ridout writes article apr mfltd sts mfltd steve sherwood writes has anyone got multiverse work have built svr mips svr and sun sparcstation there seems many bugs the dogfight and dactyl simply nothing after fixing bug where variable defined twice two different modules one needed setting static else the client core dumped steve extn sts mfltd uunet mfocus sts tried compiling several sparcstations with gcc after fixing few bugs missing constant definitions plus couple other things got compile link but after starting client server just get black window sometimes the client core dumps sometimes the server sometimes get broken pipe sometimes just sits there doing nothing although occassionally get the cursor become cross hair dog fight but that sent word the author plus what did fix last week but reply yet peter campbell campbell trl
comp.graphics	graph traversal algorithms everyone currently planning write program that traverses the image handwritten characters ascii format and produces circle and line representation handwritten characters did anybody out there has any experiences this problem you have would you post mail please kevin does anyone has program that traverse the digital image and produces circle and line kevin shin kshin bcstec boeing com
comp.graphics	newsgroup split article mach wlu mart mach wlu phil martin writes chris herringshaw tdawson engin umich edu wrote concerning the proposed newsgroup split personally not favor doing this learn awful lot about all aspects graphics reading this group from code hardware algorithms just think making different groups out this wate and will only result few posts week per group kind like the convenience having one big forum for discussing all aspects graphics anyone else feel this way just curious yes also like knowing where ask question without getting hell for putting the wrong newsgroup also against splitting the group the traffic will decrease any given subject but the required net bandwidth will increase because multiply cross postings just went through this with another group continuously read now almost the point where longer worth reading strongly suggest not doing this dave rogers
comp.graphics	wanted grayscale dithering routine have some color gifs which would like archive much smaller size using grayscale palette shades the quantization grays introduces some ugly bands the pictures which can nicely eliminated dithering now have used process the images but now would like automate the procedure the problem that can think convert images automatically and the obvious alternative pnmplus ppmquant and pnmdither don even get close quality pnmdither apparently dithers rgb even though the images are grayscale the dithering routine seems use the natural image colors for the dither this any similar routine available the public domain where niclas mattsson exjob math chalmers
comp.graphics	vrrend where kept told that vrrend available the internet wanted know where thanks advance raoul daruwala nyu edu
comp.graphics	rumours about article apr mercury unt edu sean mcmains mcmains unt edu writes wow very interested get hands one these especially considering the fact that motorola has not yet released the which supposedly the next the lineup the made someone other than motorola signetics perhaps and was memory serves correctly compatible single chip micro type chip built extra toys like serial ports ram interfaces etc laugh all you want but there such critter gord wait smos systems vancouver design centre uunet jericho gord gord jericho uunet net even some days
comp.graphics	mgr naplps gui bbs frontends all looking into methods can use turn linux based bbs into full color graphical bbs that supports mac linux and amiga callers originally was inspired the naplps graphics standard summary which hit this group about weeks ago posted that document forgot part etc but was more than summary was complete technical description the protocol can ftped from simtel from wuarchive wustl edu mirrors msdos naplps following software availability naplps supporting software find that most terminal programs are commercial the only resonable shareware one being which runs soley msdos machines leaving mac and amiga users buy full commercial software they want try out the bbs know wouldn next most interesting possibility port mgr mac amiga why not write naplps decoder for your choice platform and release the code the net then other willing souls can help port other platforms naplps was designed for this type online interactive graphics much the same but while intended for high bandwidth network connections naplps was optimized for low bandwidth modem connections there color version mgr for linux does anyone have any other suggestions for linux based gui bbs sure you will receive other suggestions but look this way you wanted provide full network connection linux over modem would you use slip ppp would you invent some new way most people would say that slip ppp exist and are reasonably well designed protocols lets just implement them see the same way with naplps existing well thought out extensible protocol for online graphics why not implement you need any advice implementation just mail currently getting beta version coreldraw naplps converter working well enough release may you someone else does not get going freely available naplps decoder then intend after get conversion program out beta and get couple other things done michael dillon internet mpdillon halcyon halcyon com powerhouse fidonet armstrong voice canada bbs
comp.graphics	patches for sungks due number bugs gks under sunos installed patches and patch appears work fine and has fixed number problems patch however which required fix number other annoying bugs breaks with our applications there more recent revision patch any other ideas scott sloan email cesws newcastle edu university newcastle fax nsw australia
comp.graphics	psygnosis titles was rumours about mark samson samson prlhp prl philips wrote speaking psygnosis they have licensed games philips interative media international for and for the commodore cdtv regards email mattias matt dah dsv love
comp.graphics	front end for povray day all does anyone know anything about front end for povray version mean are there things like user friendly modeller for povray any modellers which will let design scene and produce file which povray can then read cheers tomek tomek tpiatek comp vuw new zealand tomek tpiatek comp vuw new zealand
comp.graphics	vatican library the vatican library recently made tour the can anyone help finding ftp site where this collection available thanx advance watson
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance wed apr gmt psh brunel peter hauke said peter joachim lous joachim kih wrote peter does anyone have any other suggestions where the came from peter yep here theory that once heard bandied around rather than thinking peter the number think the sound for tea two sort anagram tea for two peter two for tea for tea two other suggestion there tea above just and for two many things are possible think binary wonder there was eve for adam peter malek malek cooperate what agree and forgive each other for that which disagree hassan banna
comp.graphics	raytracing colours have question about recursive backward raytracing when incident ray strikes object point first the normal calculated light rays are calculated where the number light sources these being the light rays that not intersect with anything the reflected ray and the transmitted ray calculated from the formulae calling the routine recursively and will return the colours along the rays and rcol and tcol each object has its own colour ocol and each light source has licol the question how you combine rcol tcol ocol and all the licol get the correct resulting colour return along the ray all colours are defined strucures records having components between and anyone has done this before could you give few hints adrian secchia asecchia uct
comp.graphics	bit graphics apollo now have graphics board that does bit graphics when heard that jumped the answer isn that can trillion trillion trillion colors actually does planes bits planes bits etc for very fast graphics douginoz
comp.graphics	lasergraphics language have old montage film recorder when connected with its processor card can directly take hpgl targa and lasergraphics language files bit targa quite for raster images but conversion from whatever one happens have can quite slow this lasergraphics language seems got the source file for one test image vector based language that can handle one million colors does some polygons too and perhaps something else the question where can find some information about this language ftp site book company address would nice have windows driver for but not that optimistic thanks advance for any help jussi jussi laaksonen computing centre akademi university finland
comp.graphics	matrox windows driver need windows driver for the matrox svga card the moment windows runs only the mode you have driver for this card please send with the oemsetup inf bockamp informatik muenchen thanks florian bockamp bockamp informatik muenchen ooo ooo not bug undocumented feature
comp.graphics	help needed hidden line removal article raynor beech scarolina edu raynor scarolina edu harold brian raynor writes looking for some information hidden line removal using roberts algorithm something with code pseudo code would especially helpful required this for class due monday have very little time implement these changes very fast paced class the notes given class leave lot desired would vastly appreciate any help actually any algorithm would nice roberts the main problem two objects intersecting and dimensions need know which lines clip off that one object will appear front another you can give ftp address and filename even the name good book really appreciate day brian blunt about this the only reasonable explanation roberts algorithm procedural elements for computer graphics rogers mcgraw hill book the library and look this there also somewhat muddled explanation the first edition newman and sproull the algorithm described pecg runs near linear time luck dave rogers
comp.graphics	wanted how screen dump vga screen how can one dump the printer the content vga screen were text screen can execute shift printscr but with graphics have pixed pixel print would greatly appreciated someone can supply source code for this alternately are there commercial shareware programs that are available this must able shell out program execute this print screen therefore would prefferable have source code thank you advance rickey tom internet style aruba rickt psi com programmer analyst project uucp uunet uupsi aruba rickt
comp.graphics	coreldraw bitmap scodal article rsiinnld zephyr grace cri srlnjal grace cri writes does anyone know software that will allow you convert coreldraw cdr files containing bitmaps scodal this the only format our bureau filmrecorder recognises corel draw will version onwards you have version perhaps upgrade order another alternative would use different bureau that can take postscript chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	needed plotting package that does qgf alta com chris zeus alta com chris murphy writes article full apr dolphin pts mot com full pts mot com glen fullmer writes looking for graphics cad whatever package unix box that will take file with records like see roger grywalski response help network visualization comp graphics visualization could someone please post roger grywalski response point where could find thanks lot raj chaudhury dept physics raj phys ksu edu kansas state university manhattan raj chaudhury dept physics raj phys ksu edu kansas state university manhattan
comp.graphics	classes for graphics planning writing several classes build raytracing radiosity library top and wondering anythink like this freely available the net before what need classes like rays vectors colors shaders surfaces media primitives worlds containing primitives and views images please post mail torgeir veimo studying the university bergen gona wave freak flag high jimi hendrix and would okay any other day the police
comp.graphics	problems article cba tut lehtori tut kouhia juhana writes recent discussion about problems were held some newsgroup here some text users might find interesting have also minor ideas for bit mail for them deleted for space basically complaints that bit program and that making several modifications the rgb sliders slow because screen updates reverse order try clicking the auto apply box switch off then make your mods then click apply there problem stated has already been solved you look carefully yes bit program this not bug you can edit individual pallette entries global colour changes crop scale etc clearly the program must save out the altered image else all your work would thrown away yes saves out bit images course can import bit images and quantises them down bits this handy facility not bug how would you suggest doing colour editing bit file how would you group related colours edit them together only global changes could done unless the software were very different and much more complicated you want colour editing bit image you need much more powerfull software which readily available commercially and lastly jpeg compression algorithm can applied any image arbitrary bit depth again this not bug way saving disk space later chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	vatican library reposted request these images are great but they are also large pixels typical size warned regards tom lane from rsquires cyclops eece unm edu roger squires newsgroups comp archives subject rec arts books vatican library exhibit library congress online date feb gmt original newsgroups rec arts books original date feb gmt archive name auto rec arts books vatican library exhibit library congress online this from another newsgroup looks quite interesting rms announcing new online exhibit from the library congress rome reborn the vatican library renaissance culture exhibit the library congress washington available anonymous ftp from seq loc gov pub vatican exhibit rome reborn the vatican library and renaissance culture presents some the vatican library most precious manuscripts books and maps many which played key role the humanist recovery the classical heritage greece and rome the exhibition presents the untold story the vatican library the intellectual driving force behind the emergence rome political and scholarly superpower during the renaissance the exhibit will display the jefferson building the library congress from january through april the online exhibit will available anonymous ftp indefinitely the exhibit divided into nine sections the vatican library archaeology humanism mathematics music medicine biology nature described wider world how the orient came rome and wider world how rome went china each section consists its own sub directory within the exhibit directory and contains the exhibit text for that section and separate jpeg image files for each object this online exhibit includes not only objects from the library congress exhibit but also the alternate objects brought from rome used there were problem with one the primary objects and items omitted later the planning process this exhibit will interest medieval and renaissance scholars particular but also art historians historians science medicine early music scholars students the humanist movement students printing and the printed word theologians scholars both far and near eastern studies and librarians and information professionals please get the readme file for details what files this exhibit contains you have questions about how use ftp speak your local computer support person you have questions comments about the content the exhibit please write vatican kell loc gov while you have any questions comments the system please contact ellis ellis special projects office library congress washington internet kell seq loc gov
comp.graphics	coreldraw bitmap scodal article gmginn zephyr grace cri srlnjal grace cri writes yes aware coreldraw exports scodal version did quite well apart from few hassles with radial fills version revb better but you try export scodal with bitmap image included the drawing will say something like cannot export scodal with bitmap least does version then sorry for misunderstanding anyone out there knows way around this all ears temporal images make product called filmpak which converts autocad plots scodal postscript scodal and now gif scodal but costs and was just wondering there was anything out there that just did the bitmap scodal part tad cheaper maybee you should persuade your burea that for only they can become much more competitive taking input from autocad postscript andgif well scodl seriously this sounds like something the bureau should have find another bureau you should not the one buting this software chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	adobe photo shop type software for unix motif platforms article world std com wdm world std com wayne michael writes have been searching for quality image enhancement and manipulation package for unix motif platforms that comparable adobe photo shop for the mac corel draw will able this will include the photopaint stuff that the version got with version don hold your breath though chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	bit graphics article apr wisc edu oehler yar wisc edu wonko the sane writes was recently talking possible employer mine and made reference bit graphics computer image processing system seem remember being called image something akin that anyway claimed had bit color bit alpha channel that bits info what could that possibly for specifically the bit color that trillion colors many more than the human eye can resolve this anti aliasing thing this just some magic number make work better with certain processor well bit colour could for improved resolution but bits per channel seems like bit excessive have seen paper that quoted bits per channel bits for computational precision more than that would seem wasted perhaps the frame buffer uses another colourspace which needs more bits represent the full range rgb cube compact encoding most likely however that there are two separate bit bits per component frame buffers this set called double buffering allows complex picture built one buffer while the other buffer containing the previous frame displayed this makes for smoother animation sadly have access none them just dec sigh well hey you want brag about numbers the range can take pxg turbo card with bits per pixel full double buffering two bit buffers bit buffer and extra bit buffer for off screen image storage mind you the card costs more than your workstation chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	turning photographic images into thermal print and negatives also anyone else doing what planning would happy hear from you with any advice you might provide the computer system you use and any peripherals software seemed the quadra would best bet modify photographic images planning buying quadra with megs ram meg hard drive dpi scanner sony monitor and meg cartridge drive and perhaps rom new computers and any advice would great well have lots experience with scanning images and altering them for changing them back into negatives that really possible scanning and altering big deal don know what types features you have your version photoshop but the one use which incidentally quadra has gallery effects and all types other neato stuff just wondering why you would want put your images back into negatives because once you print the image out that your print you know what exactly your aim all this like are you doing this just for fun for business gain more computer knowledge for project you working otherwise guess don know helping not posting info scanning and stuff cool seeya jennifer urso the bitter woman utter blahness but cheerful undertones
comp.graphics	help need bits viewer article seti inria deniaud cartoon inria gilles deniaud writes looking for program which able display bits images are using sun sparc equipped with parallax graphics board running utah raster toolkit using getx convert your sun raster files presumably ppm with the pbm toolkit then convert ppm utah rle format with ppmtorle which provided the toolkit seem remember that xloadimage can bit servers too possibly xwud the window dump program can display bit images certainly xwd can grab them chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	povray tga rle hello have some problem converting tga file generated povray rle file when convert not get any warning message but use xloadimage getx something wrong error messages are targatorle rle data tga xloadimage rle rle bit rle image with map will dither bits with gamma dithering image done building ximage done xloadimage error badvalue integer parameter out range for operation xloadimage error badwindow invalid window parameter know that need install ppmtorle and tgatoppm but not spend time install them even not want generate rgb from povray and then convert them rle possible rgb rle works but will mess directory with many files and needs more steps finally convert rle file say cat rawtorle rleflip does any body out there have same experience problems thanks advance park
comp.graphics	wanted playmation info article apr qiclab scn rain com baer qiclab scn rain com ken baer writes article apr osf org omar godzilla osf org mark marino writes folks does anyone have copy playmation they willing sell love try out but not for the retail playmation available direct from anjon associates for oops forgot the phone number ken baer programmer animator hash enterprises usenet baer qiclab uucp applelink kenbaer office not hitchhiking anymore riding ren hoak
comp.graphics	please help point concave polyhedra dear netters looking for source code test point lies within concave polyhadra have read few articles about this and know that two solutions exist parity counting and angle sumation both ideas are pretty simple but coding not wonder there exists public domain source code for this another rough solition don care special cases ray casting which reported more less independent number faces consisting the polyhedra special space indexing used tamminen ray casting and block model conversion using spatial index computer aided designs but the prerequirement that all the facets polyhedra have their normal pointing outside polyhedra how this could done practice have set trangles consisting the polyhedra how could ensure their normals pointing outside the polyhedra the paper mentioned above assumed this already the case have also read some standard computer graphics textbook about hidden line removal says make the rule that the normal facet pointing toward viewer standing far away from the polyhedra again how make sure any pointers are welcome yaohong jiang queen university kingston ont jiangy qucdn queensu
comp.graphics	triangulized data wanted with texture mapped need triangulized data some nice looking model with some texture mapping would better the parametric values each vertex for the surface before triangulized are avaliable along with the euclidean points that could use them for texture mapping thanks kwansik
comp.graphics	where faq where can find thanks kwansik
comp.graphics	what the difference between raytracing and rendering hello raytraced and rendered and the only difference found that raytracing takes hell lot longer missing something later
comp.graphics	tiff complexity anyone who thinks that tiff too complex hasn dealt with cgm asn cda dca sgml any one number other very successful file format people seem perfectly capable dealing with these others dealing with the format tiff frankly less difficult than dealing with the dct lzw and fax encoding the image data the majority the libraries which deal with tiff are dedicated these other issues rather than with simply decoding the tags and parameters perhaps people are overwhelmed comparison with some rather simpleminded formats such gif pcx and bmp but suggest that tiff complex doomed failure ludicrous that doesn mean that gif isn fine but don even thing about using many instances gif very nice for use low end photos applications and for screen grabs and such but would never for high volume high resolution systems fax nice but doesn color and gif doesn all that well jpeg nice for high resolution color but slow for low end the advantage tiff brings the table its ability handle all these situations and then some naturally more complex but rather propose tiff imaging solutions over imaging systems based having deal with file formats anyday you may find that tiff too complicated for your personal tastes but please don wrail against complexity the complexity contains required provide the functionality does and doesn come close the complexity found most commercially viable file formats philosophical arguments against complexity let all program scheme and forth and imaging with run length encoding
comp.graphics	dxf pcx gif tif tga does anyone know program for the that will take autocad dxf format files and convert them raster format like pcx gif etc thanks advance murashie mail beckman instruments inc phone diagnostic system group fax kraemer blvd internet murashiea mail beckman com brea
comp.graphics	donwloaded bin file from unix machine now what just donwloaded bin file from unix machine which supposed converted mac format does anyone know what need this file get into any dos mac unix readable format someone mentioned fetch the unix machine this correct could someone explain the bin format little thanks elizabeth elizabeth strickler matess gsusgi gsu edu
comp.graphics	help studio ipas can anyone please give some ftp sites get ipas processes for studio thanks warren
comp.graphics	computer graphics studies the technion technion israel institute technology department computer science graduate studies computer graphics applications are invited for graduate students wishing specialize computer graphics and related fields active research being conducted the fields image rendering geometric modelling and computer animation state the art graphics workstations sun silicon graphics and video equipment are available the technion offers full scholarship support tuition and assistantships for suitable candidates for more information contact craig gotsman computer science deptartment technion israel institute technology haifa israel gotsman technion
comp.graphics	dwg gcd formats reference needed can some kind soul point references for the above formats thanks earl
comp.graphics	any autodesk concepts users out there you are user autodesk concepts and are willing answer small number short questions then please send email earl boebert sctc com
comp.graphics	raytracing colours asecchia uct adrian secchia writes when incident ray strikes object point the reflected ray and the transmitted ray calculated from the formulae calling the routine recursively and will return the colours along the rays and rcol and tcol each object has its own colour ocol and each light source has licol the question how you combine rcol tcol ocol and all the licol get the correct resulting colour return along the ray first all this not snide response you confused about this issue you will stumble over lot other things well suggest that the weakness your reference material get introduction ray tracing andrew glassner for very good coverage the raytracing algorithm you could also refer the edition foley van dam the question the simple answer that you just keep adding all the contributions and then clamping the maximum intensity for example your intensity values range from then keep adding and clamp the resultant values you might have clamp the lower bound you have dark bulbs but that another issue you get some illumination equation like this lambient ldiffuse light lreflected ltransparent the contribution due reflection just summed with the light intensity the light due transparency now slightly less hand waving illumination equation this kala kdld light krlr ktlt that each component the illumination equation governed the material constants and the maximum you can get from transparency for given object for example might for purple colored glass object hopefully this answers your question forward illumination equation sermon you also steve hollasch kubota pacific computer inc hollasch kpc com santa clara california
comp.graphics	what the difference between raytracing and rendering zlg uxa cso uiuc edu zhenhai writes hello raytraced and rendered and the only difference found that raytracing takes hell lot longer missing something yes there are many methods rendering raytracing one them you didn say what you mean rendering won guess methods rendering include pencil and graph paper doing the math hand wireframe rendering the projection hidden line rendering scanline rendering using painter algorithm bsp trees buffer other raytracing radiosity holographic projection film combination any the above steve hollasch kubota pacific computer inc hollasch kpc com santa clara california
comp.graphics	dna helix looking for tiff eps dna helix mail any auggestions please
comp.graphics	donwloaded bin file from unix machine now what article matess gsusgi gsu edu matess gsusgi gsu edu eliza strickler writes just donwloaded bin file from unix machine which supposed converted mac format does anyone know what need this file get into any dos mac unix readable format someone mentioned fetch the unix machine this correct could someone explain the bin format little this almost certainly macbinary file which encoded version mac file the resource fork and data fork get preserved you need program that converts this regular file this macbinary file you may have downloaded text mode and probably corrupt you did you using ftp transfer any point make sure you type binary first you can open the file with text editor and find this file must converted with bin the top binhex file and can decoded with binhex among other programs niko schuessler project vincent systems manager email niko iastate edu iowa state university computation center voice ames snail durham
comp.graphics	rfd comp multimedia open telematic rfd request for discussion for the open telematic group otg have proposed the forming consortium task force for the promotion naplps jpeg fif openly discuss ways method procedures algorythms applications implementation extensions naplps jpeg standards these standards should facilitate the creation real time online applications that make use voice video telecommuting hires graphics conferencing distant learning online order entry fax addition these dicussion would assist all better understand how sgml cals oda mime oodbms jpeg mpeg fractals sql cdrom cdromxa kodak photocd tcl fast and eia tia can best incorporated and implemented develop telematic multimedia applications want able support dos unix mac windows platforms our hope that individuals developers corporations universities labs would join supporting such endeavor this would not for profit group with bylaws and charter already many corporations have decided support otg open telematic group not delay joining you are developer rfd has been posted form usenet newsgroup and faq will soon composed start promulgating what known the subject you would like added the maillist send email mail the address below this group would publish electronic quarterly naplps jpeg newsletter well hardcopy version urge all who wants see cmcs hires based applications the naplps jpeg decide join and mutually benefit from this not for profit endeavor note telematic has been defined james martin the marriage voice video res graphics fax ivr music over telephone lines lan you would like get involve write img inter multimedia group internet epimntl world std com box pimentel gisatl fidonet org atlanta georgia cis fidonet bbs zyxel edimg willard atl pimentel gatech vdbsan willard edimg emory uumind willard edimg willard house bbs atlanta
comp.graphics	wanted bit viewer hello thanks the people who helped with the problem displaying bit images all the viewers like xli xloadimage and display are converting the bit images bit before display them the screen what really want viewer with make use the bit frame screen buffer our case the parallax one thanks advance gilles are using sun sparc running
comp.graphics	scientific visualization chemical systems molecules has evolved from esoteric academic subject into international industry computer graphics has played decisive role this transformation allowing chemists build visualize and interact with complex geometrical objects while computer scientists are conversant the language their own discipline they are often unfamiliar with the terminology simulation techniques and practical needs research chemists similarly chemists are often unfamiliar with the latest paradigms and technological advances graphical computing this interdisciplinary course intended bridge the gap between computer science and chemistry and equip chemistry researchers who wish more than just casual users prepackaged graphics software although this not intended course computational chemistry drug design data sets from chemical research problems will used lab and students will encouraged bring data sets their own lab exercises and projects will carried out using data flow programming ibm visualization data explorer software and students will have access cornell theory center computing resources including video recording equipment audience researchers and students the chemical and biological sciences interested integrating state the art computer graphics into their research computer scientists wishing gain familiarity with major application scientific visualization the class size will limited participants first come first served basis level graduate advanced undergraduate credits may taken without credit workshop calculus linear algebra and introductory chemistry required familiarity with unix windows and useful but not required date june credits june credits time mon fri and cost credit credits format the course will held the theory center training facility where computer workstations will available daily lectures will interspersed with laboratory exercises and ample time will provided for project enablement and familiarization with the new computing environment students enrolled for one credit will graded the basis their laboratory exercises and short final project those enrolled for second credit will receive more advanced lectures given more time for project development and meet daily share experience and discuss problems encountered content may vary elements computer graphics polygonal rendering lighting models ray tracing volumetric rendering stereo graphics animation introduction data flow programming interactivity representing the atom size time and energy scales basic classical and quantum mechanics important categories molecules small molecules biopolymers surfaces and catalysts miscellaneous current applications data formats and conversions advanced molecular graphics techniques types simulation and experiment electronic structure molecular dynamics mechanics electrostatics ray crystallography nmr quantum dynamics and spectroscopy instructors the course will taught two instructors topics related computer graphics will handled bruce land project leader visualization cornell national supercomputing facility chemistry specific aspects the course will handled richard gillilan visualization specialist and research scientist cornell national supercomputing facility register mail completed form cornell university school continuing education and summer sessions day hall ithaca questions richard gillilan richard cornell edu important acceptance will first come first served and based target class size full credit and single non credit participants deadline may application form scientific visualization chemical systems chemistry computer science social security number available cornell number available name last first middle suffix etc address home address where grades will mailed local phone home phone academic discipline course number check one chemistry computer science credits status undergraduate student smart node consultant graduate student smart node advisor post doctoral faculty other explain corporate commercial research staff other explain name firm indicate which the following best describes you optional african american alaskan native asian american caucasian hispanic american native american list special needs mobility impaired accommodations blocks rooms are available the sheraton reservations must made later than may sure tell them you are here for the cornell theory center visualization workshop sheraton inn one sheraton drive ithaca fax rates starting other local motels make your reservation early our workshop coincides with other cornell events econo lodge cayuga mall triphammer ithaca fax rates from ask for the cornell rate dorm rooms have also been reserved participants both credit and non credit participants who are interested dorm rooms should call below for registration information jeanne miller donna smith email jeanne cornell edu donna cornell edu
comp.graphics	analysis text readins utils ocr wanted ibm from tolsty thu apr newsserv newcom kiae newsgroups comp periphs comp graphics digest comp graphics comp binaries ibm wanted alt graphics pixutils bit listserv omrscan message kaj nzfm nsk uucp free msk organization nsk ran from andrey shorin tolsty nsk uucp free msk date thu apr subject analysis text reading utils needed ibm distribution msk does anybody know any reliable utils read english texts with scanner want some analysis quality recognition because want read texts which get fax you know quality faxes rather bad the scanner have and dpi but there exist any good software that needs other specifications that will please send messages mail conference server summarize them and consider your recomendations thank you andrey shorin scientific council complex problem cybernetics russian academy sciences mail tolsty nsk uucp free msk tel fax
comp.graphics	cross sobel roberts filters saw imaging program some time ago amiga that had cross sobel and roberts filters for edge detection can anybody direct these algorithms paul denize paul denize internet pdenize waikato department computer science university waikato phone hamilton ext new zealand fax
comp.graphics	apr computer graphics resource listing weekly part archive name graphics resources list part last modified computer graphics resource listing weekly posting part last change april many faqs including this listing are available the archive site pit manager mit edu alias rtfm mit edu the directory pub usenet news answers the name under which faq archived appears the archive name line the top the article this faq archived graphics resources list part there mail server that machine you send mail message mail server pit manager mit edu containing the keyword help without quotes the message body you can see many other places for this listing see the item places find the resource listing for more information items changed arranged the subjects order fir better the article limit plan changing headers soon careful only the resource listing keys are sure remain the subject line computer graphics ftp site list eric haines mail servers and graphics oriented bbses plotting packages thinking making this post weekly what you think lines which got changed have the character front them added lines are prepended with removed lines are just removed use diff locate these changes this text copyright nikolaos fotis you can copy freely this file provided you keep this copyright notice intact compiled nikolaos nick fotis mail nfotis theseas ntua please contact for updates corrections etc disclaimer not guarantee the accuracy this document use your own risk this mainly guide for computer graphics software would suggest reading the comp graphics faq for image analysis stuff entitled date comp graphics frequently asked questions faq john grieggs grieggs jpl devvax jpl nasa gov the poster the official comp graphics faq have included comments within braces and nikolaos fotis contents the resource listing part places find the resource listing archie notes computer graphics ftp site list eric haines mail servers and graphics oriented bbses ray tracing graphics related mailing lists graphics editors public domain free and shareware systems commercial systems scene description languages solids description formats part plotting packages image analysis software image processing and display part scene generators geographical data maps data files scanners digitized data background imagery textures datafiles introduction rendering algorithms ray tracing buffer depth buffer others where can find the geometric data for the teapot space shuttle image annotation software scientific visualization stuff molecular visualization stuff gis geographical information systems software future additions please send updates info places find the resource listing this file crossposted comp graphics comp answers and news answers you can locate comp graphics you advised search comp answers news answers the latter groups usually are archived your site contact your sysadmin for more info these articles are posted comp graphics times month and are kept many places see below many faqs including this one are available the archive site pit manager mit edu alias rtfm mit edu the directory pub usenet news answers the name under which faq archived appears the archive name line the top the article this faq archived graphics resources list part there mail server that machine you send mail message mail server pit manager mit edu containing help the subject field the inria graphlib mail server mirrors this posting see under the subject mail servers the resource listing accesible through wais the machine enuxva eas asu edu port under the name graphics resources list got digest type line before every numbered item for purposes indexing another place that monitors the listing the maasinfo files for more info contact robert maas rem btr com yet another place search for faqs general the switch swiss academic and research network system switzerland interactive telnet nic switch login info move the info service usenet periodic postings directory search the index file typing and the word look for you may then just read the faq the faqs directory decide fetch one the following methods ftp login nic switch user anonymous and enter your internet style address after being prompted for password info service usenet periodic postings mail send mail rfc archive server nic switch archive server nic switch prmd switch admd arcom enter help the bodypart receive instructions information required the subject header line archie the archie service system locate ftp places for requested files appreciated that you will use archie before asking help the newsgroups archie servers archie aussie archie funet finland eur archie darmstadt ger huji israel archie kuis kyoto japan archie sogang korea archie ncu edu telnet twn archie doc ireland archie sura net usa archie unl edu password archie usa archie ans net usa archie rutgers edu usa archie new zealand connect archie server with telnet and type archie username get help type help you can get xarchie archie which are clients that call archie without the burden telnet session xarchie the contrib tape and archie comp sources misc vol get information how use archie via mail send mail with subject help archie account any above sites note janet pss users the united kingdom archie site accessible the janet host doc connect and specify archie the host name and archie the username notes excerpted from the faq article please not post mail messages saying can ftp could someone mail this there are number automated mail servers that will send you things like this response message there are number sites that archive the usenet sources newsgroups and make them available via email query system you send message automated server saying something like send comp sources unix fbm and few hours days later you get the file the mail computer graphics ftp site list eric haines computer graphics related ftp sites and maintainers compiled eric haines erich eye com and nick fotis nfotis theseas ntua ray tracers rayshade great ray tracer for workstations also for mac amiga pov son and successor dkb trace written compuservers for more questions call drew wells compuserve com dave buck david buck carleton art ray tracer with good range surface types part vort package dkbtrace another good ray tracer from all reports pcs mac amiga unix vms last two with previewer etc rtrace portugese ray tracer does bicubic patches csg text etc etc dos version for use with djgpp dos extender exists also mac port vivid shareware raytracer for pcs binary only author stephen coy coy ssc vax boeing com the source version available registered users direct from the author ray steve hollasch dimensional ray tracer renders hyperspheres hypertetrahedra hyperplanes and hyperparallelepipeds there separate real time wireframe viewer written called wire mtv qrt dbw yet more ray tracers some with interesting features distributed parallel raytracers xdart distributed ray tracer that runs under there are server binaries which work only decstations sparcs snakes series and next the clients are distributed binaries and source inetray network version rayshade needs sun rpc newer contact andreas thurnherr ant ips ethz prt pray parallel ray tracers volume renderers vrend cornell volume renderer from kartch devine caffey warren fortran radiosity and diffuse lighting renderers radiance ray tracer radiosity effects greg ward excellent shading models and physically based lighting simulation unix based though has been ported the amiga and the india indian radiosity package based radiance sgi rad interactive radiosity package that runs sgi machines with spaceball includes house database author guy moreillon moreillo ligsg epfl rad simple public domain radiosity package the solution can run stand alone any unix box but the walk through requires sgi author bernard kwok kwok yorku renderers which are not raytracers and graphics libraries sipp scan line buffer and phong shading renderer now uses the shadow buffer algorithm tcl sipp tcl command interface the sipp rendering program tcl sipp set tcl commands used programmed sipp without having write and compile code commands are used specify surfaces objects scenes and rendering options renders either ppm format utah raster toolkit rle format the photo widget the based applications vogle graphics learning environment device portable vogl sgi like library based vogle rend fast polygon renderer for intel and version not photorealistic but rather real time renderer xsharp dobb journal renderer source code with budget texture mapping modellers wireframe viewers vision mac modeler can output radiance rayshade files irit csg solid modeler with support for freeform surfaces wireframe viewer for wireframe graphics toolkit with source objects other stuff look major archives like wuarchive one such file dkit zip shareware front end modeler for povray still beta test french docs for now price for registering french francs save disabled some extra utilities dxf files for the registered version geometric viewers salem based package from dobkin for exploring mathematical structures geomview based package for looking and interactively manipulating objects from geometry center minnesota xyz geobench experimental geometry zurich workbench for geometric computation for macintosh computers wire wireframe previewer for steve hollasch ray see above data formats and data sets for ray tracing spd set procedural databases for testing ray tracers nff simplistic file format used spd off another file format lispy file format tddd imagine modeler format has converters for rayshade nff off etc also includes nice postscript object displayer some great models ttdddlib converts from tddd ttddd off nff rayshade imagine and vort objects also outputs framemaker mif files and isometric views postscript registered users get tex font converter and superquadric surfaces generator glenn lewis glewis pcocd intel com note ttdddlib also known dlib chvrtd chapel hill volume rendering test datasets includes volume sets for two heads brain knee electron density maps for rna and others written material rendering news collections articles ray tracing bib references articles ray tracing refer format rad bib references articles radiosity global illumination speer bib rick speer cross referenced bib postscript abstracts collection tom wilson abstracts many articles paper bank project various technical papers electronic form contact juhana kouhia tut online bibliography project the acm siggraph online bibliography project database over unique computer graphics and computational geometry references bibtex format available the computer graphics community research and educational resource the database located siggraph org users may download the bibtex files via ftp and peruse them offline telnet siggraph org and log biblio and interactively search the database for entries interest keyword for the people without internet access there also mail server send mail archive server siggraph org and the subject the body the message include the message send followed the topic and subtopic you wish good place start with the command send index which will give you date list available information additions corrections suggestions may directed the admin bibadmin siggraph org image manipulation libraries utah raster toolkit nice image manipulation tools pbmplus great package for image conversion and manipulation libtiff library for reading writing tiff images imagemagick package for display and interactive manipulation images uses its own format miff and includes some converters based image display manipulation and format converter xloadimage xli displays various formats screen khoros huge excellent system for image processing with visual programming interface and much much more uses windows fbm another set image manipulation tools somewhat old now img image manipulation displays screen bit old now xflick plays fli animation under xanim plays any resolution fli along with gif including gif animation extensions and amiga iff animations and iff pictures including ham ehb and color cycling sdsc sdsc image tools package san diego supercomputing center for image manipulation and conversion clrpaint bit paint program for sgi bit workstations and bit indigos libraries with code for graphics graphics gems iii code from the ever useful books spline patch tar spline patch ray intersection routines sean graves kaleido computation and display uniform polyhedra mirrored wuarchive this package computes and displays the metrical properties polyhedra author zvi har mail gauss technion means site official distributor most date north america please look for things your own continent first wuarchive wustl edu graphics graphics get contents file for roadmap graphics graphics objects tddd the ttddd objects and converters mirrors unix graphics rayshade ray tracer mtv ray tracer vort ray tracer fbm pbmplus popi utah raster toolkit mirrors msdos graphics dkb ray tracer fli raytracker demos pub rad tar sgi rad graphics graphics radiosity radiance and indian radiosity package msdos ddjmag ddj zip version xsharp with fast texture mapping there lots more including bibs graphics gems code off rtn radiance nff sipp spline patch intersection routines textbook errata source code from roy hall book illumination and color computer generated imagery etc graphics graphics packages kaleido kaleido george kyriazis kyriazis turing rpi edu princeton edu pub graphics note capital rayshade ray tracer and separate executable color quantization code spd news wilson abstracts bib utah raster toolkit newer fbm graphics gems iii code pub graphics directory salem and other stuff craig kolb cek princeton edu replaces weedeater math yale edu note the capital pub graphics because there trouble with princeton incoming area you can upload rayshade specific stuff weedeater math yale edu alfred ccs carleton pub dkbtrace dkb ray tracer pub pov ray pov ray pvray compuserve group ray tracer pov david buck david buck carleton avalon chinalake navy mil objects multiple formats utilities file format documents this site was created object repository for the net francisco dejesus dejesus archimedes chinalake navy mil omicron unc edu pub softlab chvrtd chapel hill volume rendering test datasets ftp com official ddj ftp repository xsharp peipa essex the pilot european image processing archive directory ipa synth something like that there are image synthesis packages adrian clarke alien essex barkley berkeley edu tcl extensions tsipp tar tcl sipp mark diekhans markd grizzly com markd neosoft com acs cps msu edu pub sass window fonts converter into rayshade polygons rayshade animation tool ron sass sass cps msu edu hobbes lbl gov radiance ray trace radiosity package greg ward gjward lbl gov geom umn edu pub geomview geomview contact for geomview software geom umn edu ftp arc umn edu pub gvl tar the latest version bob icol and raz source manual man pages and binaries for irix are included bob real time volume renderer pub contains also many volume datasets ken chin purcell ken ahpcrc umn edu ftp kpc com pub graphics holl steve hollasch thesis pub graphics ray ray pub graphics wire wire pub mirror avalon mirror avalon objects repository steve hollasch hollasch kpc com swedishchef lerc nasa gov programs hollasch ray sgi explorer modules and postscript manual etc zamenhof rice edu pub graphics formats various electronic documents about many object and image formats mark hall foo rice edu will apparently longer maintaining see ftp ncsa uiuc edu rascal ics utexas edu misc mac inqueue vision facet based modeller can output rayshade and radiance files ftp ncsa uiuc edu misc file formats graphics formats contains various image and object format descriptions many scivi tools various directories sgi alpha shape alvis tar alpha shape visualizer sgi machines only sgi polyview polyview interactive visualization and analysis geometrical structures quincey koziol koziol ncsa uiuc edu tucana noao edu iraf the iraf astronomy package ftp ipl rpi edu sigma erich spd images and haines thesis images pub images various and bit image stills and sequences kevin martin sigma ipl rpi edu ftp psc edu pub tar lispy scene language renderers joel welling welling seurat psc edu ftp lbl gov pbmplus tar rayshade data files jef poskanzer jef ace lbl gov george lbl gov pub ccs lib ccs tar ccs complex conversion system standard software interface for image processing hanauma stanford edu pub graphics comp graphics best comp graphics very extensive ray tracers dbw mtv qrt and more joe dellinger joe hanauma stanford edu ftp net graphics irit news back issues not complete nurbs models other graphics related material graphics jpeg jpegsrc tar independent jpeg group package for reading and writing jpeg files freebie engin umich edu utah raster toolkit spencer thomas thomas eecs umich edu export lcs mit edu contrib pbmplus image magick xloadimage xli img lots more pub untarred mit demos gpc ncga graphics performance characterization gpc suite life pawl rpi edu pub ray kyriazis stochastic ray tracer george kyriazis kyriazis turing rpi edu utah edu pub utah raster toolkit nurbs databases jamie painter jamie utah edu gatekeeper dec com pub dec off tar off models also gpc benchmark files planned but not checked randi rost rost kpc com hubcap clemson edu pub amiga incoming imagine stuff for the amiga imagine turbo silver ray tracers pub amiga ttdddlib ttdddlib pub amiga incoming imagine objects many objects glenn lewis glewis pcocd intel com pprg eece unm edu pub khoros khoros image processing package huge but great danielle argiro danielle bullwinkle unm edu expo lcs mit edu contrib pbmplus portable bitmap package poskbitmaptars bitmap collection raveling img xloadimage jef poskanzer jef well venera isi edu pub img tar and img tar some image manipulation pub images rgb separation photos paul raveling raveling venera isi edu ucsd edu graphics utah rle toolkit pbmplus fbm databases mtv dbw and other ray tracers world map other stuff not updated much recently castlab engr wisc edu pub tar pub xdart xdart mark spychalla spy castlab engr wisc edu sgi com graphics tiff tiff spec libtiff software and pics also much sgi and related stuff opengl manuals sam leffler sam sgi com supercedes okeeffe berkeley edu for the libtiff stuff surya waterloo edu graphics fbm ray tracers ftp sdsc edu sdscpub sdsc ftp brl mil brl cad information how get the brl cad package ray tracer images various test images texture library has also begun here lee butler butler brl mil cicero umass edu texture temp grayscale brodatz textures from julien flack julien scs leeds karazm math edu pub graphics rtabs shar wilson abstracts pray eric townsend jet karazm math edu jet nas nasa gov ftp pitt edu users qralston images bit image archive small james ralston crawford qralston pitt edu ftp cornell edu pub vis vrend sunee waterloo edu pub raytracers vivid rend sunee uwaterloo archive umich edu msdos graphics graphics stuff msdos graphics raytrace vivid apple apple com pub archivevol prt research att com netlib graphics spd package polyhedra polyhedra databases you don have ftp use the netlib automatic mail replier uucp research netlib internet netlib ornl gov send one line message send index for more info send haines from graphics get the spd siggraph org siggraph archive site publications online bibliography project conference proceedings various electronic formats papers panels siggraph video review information and order forms other stuff various directories automatic mailer archive server siggraph org send index ftp unc edu pub reaction diffusion greg turk work reaction diffusion textures windows code siggraph avs ncsc org ftp volvis volume datasets from the boston workshop volume visualization this site also the international avs center terry myerson tvv ncsc org uvacs virginia edu pub suit demo sparc dec etc suit simple user interface toolkit finger suit uvacs virginia edu get detailed instructions nexus yorku pub reports radiosity code tar rad pub reports radiosity thesis rad msc thesis this site will changed ftp yorku the near future milton washington edu ftp public veos veos virtual reality and distributed applications prototyping environment for unix veos software support veos support hitl washington edu oldpublic fly fly visualization software demo that package built for fly throughs from various datasets near real time there are binaries for many platforms also much other virtual reality stuff zug csmil umich edu xpecs files lcd glass shutter for amiga computers great for stuff sugrfx acs syr edu various stereo pair images has closed down sunsite unc edu pub academic computer science virtual reality final copy the sugrfx acs syr edu archive that ceased exist contains powerglove code papers images and irc research material jonathan magid jem sunsite unc edu archive cis ohio state edu pub siggraph code for siggraph course procedural modeling and rendering techniques david ebert ebert cis ohio state edu lyapunov ucsd edu this machine considered the repository for preprints and programs for nonlinear dynamics signal processing and related subjects and fractals course matt kennel mbk inls ucsd edu cod nosc mil pub grid tex ascii short survey methods interpolate and contour bivariate data ics uci edu honig various stereo pair images movie animates movie display bit and mono with digital subtraction taurus nps navy mil pub dabro cyberware demo tar human head data pioneer unm edu pub texture maps hans buf grayscale test textures aerial swatches brodatz textures synthetic swatches space planetary image repository provides access roms with data images line time pub info beginner info here you should start browsing colby kraybill opus pioneer unm edu brown edu srgp sphigs for more info srgp sphigs mail software distribution graphtext brown edu pdb pdb bnl gov has data about various organic molecules bonds between the different atoms etc atomic coordinates and load other stuff are contained the ent files but the actual atomic dimemsions seem missing you could convert these data pov rayshade etc biome bio pub art some renoir paintings escher pictures etc umanitoba specmark sample set images from the images from the edge rom images atomic landscapes advanced semiconductors superconductors and experimental surface chemistry among others contact ruskin umanitoba explorer dgp toronto edu pub sgi clrpaint clrpaint pub sgi clrview clrview tool that aids visualization gis datasets may formats like dxf dem arc info etc ames arc nasa gov pub space cdrom images from magellan and viking missions etc get pub space index first pub spacelink has most the spacelink service data see below mail server available send mail archive server ames arc nasa gov ames archive server with subject help send space index without the quotes peter yee yee ames arc nasa gov pubinfo jpl nasa gov images other data etc from jpl missions modem access parity data bits stop bit newsdesk jplpost jpl nasa gov phone spacelink msfc nasa gov passwd guest space graphics and gif images from nasa planetary probes and the hubble telescope main function support for teachers you can telnet also this site dial access baud bits parity stop bit stsci edu hubble space telescope stuff images and other data read the readme first pete reppert reppert stsci edu chris dea odea stsci edu pit manager mit edu pub usenet news answers the land faqs graphics and pictures directories particular interest also available from mail server pit manager mit edu sending mail message containing help uucp archive avatar news back issues for details write kory hamzeh kory avatar avatar com europe nic funet pub sci papers paper bank project including pete shirley entire thesis with pics wilson abstracts pub misc cia worldmap cia world data bank comp graphics research archive india and much much more juhana kouhia tut dasun epfl radiance good for european sites but doesn carry the add ons that are available for radiance isy liu pub sipp sipp tar sipp scan line buffer and phong shading renderer jonas yngvesson jonas isy liu irisa ipsc pray ray tracer spd nff many non spd nff format scenes rayshade data files didier badouel badouel irisa irisa may have disappeared phoenix oulu fli raytracker animation files vga also big flis rayscene demos americans check wuarchive first more animations come jari kahkonen hole phoenix oulu jyu pub graphics ray traces many ray tracers including pray dbw dkb mtv qrt rayshade some news nff files jari toivanen toivanen jyu garbo uwasa much stuff etc source contour fortran program contour scattered data using linear triangle based interpolation asterix inescn pub rtrace rtrace nffutils tar nff utilities for rtrace medical data cat etc converters nff autocad nff autolisp code autocad scn rtrace language converter and other goodies antonio costa acc asterix inescn vega hut graphics rtn archive ray tracers mtv qrt others nff some models was shut down months ago check under nic funet nfotis sun nluug pub graphics raytrace dbw microray mtv etc unix hensa misc unix ralcgm ralcgm tar cgm viewer and converter there mail server also mail archive unix hensa with the message body send misc unix ralcgm ralcgm tar maeglin luth graphics raytracing prt others doc wilson abstracts vivid ftp berlin pub unix graphics rayshade inputs tar rayshade aquarium americans check princeton edu first heiko schlichting heiko math berlin maggia ethz pub inetray inetray and sun rpc code andreas thurnherr ant ips ethz osgiliath dth pub amiga graphics radiance amiga port radiance per bojsen bojsen ithil dth ftp informatik uni oldenburg pov raytracer mirrored wuarchive has many goods for pov pub dkbtrace incoming polyray polyray raytracer pub dkbtrace incoming ftp uni pub amiga raytracing imagine mirror the hubcap imagine files neptune inf ethz xyz xyz geobench peter schorn schorn inf ethz iamsun unibe graphics graphtal system interpreter christoph streit streit iam unibe amiga physik unizh amiga gfx graphics stuff for the amiga computer stesis eso org line access huge astronomical database login starcat passwd decnet stesis the space telescope european coordination facility benoit pirenne bpirenne eso org phone middle east gauss technion kaleida australia gondwana ecr pub vort art ray tracer vogle wilson ray tracing abstracts pub contrib artscenes art scenes from italy pub images haines haines thesis images graphics gems code spd nff off databases nff and off previewers plus some and bit images and lots other stuff pub rad tar sgi rad bernie kirby bernie ecr munnari pub graphics vort tar vort art csg and algebraic surface ray tracer vogle pub dbw pbmplus graphics room tar art scenes from italy david hook dgh munnari marsh curtin edu pub graphics bibliography facial animation pub graphics bibliography morph pub graphics bibliography stuff about facial animation morphing and user interfaces pub fascia fred parke fascia program valerie hall val lillee curtin edu oceania asia ccu auckland ftp mac architec vision facet based modeller can output rayshade files many other neat things for macs paul bourke pdbourke ccu auckland for users outside wuarchive wustl edu directory mirrors architec scslwide sony ftp sgi facial animation steve franks site for facial animation steve franks stevef csl sony stevef umr edu mail servers and graphics oriented bbses please check first with the ftp places above with archie help don overuse mail servers there are some troubles with wrong return addresses many these mail servers have command like path valid return mail address get hint for sending back you stuff dec ftpmail send one line message ftpmail decwrl dec com without subject field and having line containing the word help you should get back message detailing the relevant procedures you must follow order get the files you want note that the reply answer command your mailer will not work for this message any other mail you receive from ftpmail send requests ftpmail send original mail message not reply complaints should sent the ftpmail request uucp dec com address rather than postmaster since decwrl postmaster not responsible for fixing ftpmail problems bitftp for bitnet sites only there bitftp pucc send one line help message this address for more info red red listserv redirector essentially mail server the server sites that are available are location earn bitnet internet turkey trickle trearn trickle ege edu denmark trickle dktc italy trickle imipoli belgium trickle banufs trickle ufsia austria trickle awiwuw germany trickle rus trickle rusvm rus uni stuttgart israel trickle taunivm trickle tau netherlands trickle hearn trickle hearn nic surfnet france trickle frmop trickle frmop cnusc colombia trickle unalcol trickle unalcol unal edu taiwan trickle twnmoe trickle twnmoe edu you are urged use the one that closer your location send message one these containing the body help and you get more instructions lightwave mail based file server mail based file server for objects bit jpeg images gif images and image maps now online for all those with internet mail access the server the official archive site for the lightwave mail list and contains many and shareware graphics utilities for several computer platforms including amiga atari ibm and macintosh the server resides bbs called the graphics bbs the bbs operational hours day days week the phone number has upgraded its modem hayes ultra bis bis which has speeds from bps bps you would like submit objects scenes images the server please pack uuencode and then mail the files the address server bobsbox rent com for information obtaining files from the server send mail message the address file server graphics rent com with the following the body the message help dir and help file describing how use the server and complete directory listing will sent you via mail now includes the cyberware head and shouders ttddd format check out only you can use ftp nfotis inria graphlib pierre jancene and sabine coquillart launched the inria graphlib mail server few months ago echo help mail inria graphlib inria will give you quick summary what inria graphlib contains and how browse among its files echo send contents mail inria graphlib inria will return the extended summary other example echo send cgrl from misc mail inria graphlib inria will return the computer graphics resource listing mirrored from comp graphics bbses there are many bbses that store datafiles etc etc but guide these beyond the scope this listing and the resources the author you can point internet mail accessible bbses that carry interesting stuff send info studio amiga modelling and ray tracing specific bbs hours meg online from jeff walkup pwappy well the castle bis bis mnp pacifica dang close san francisco california usa the new user password tao oin base the castle anim video which the sig lazerus bob lindabury operates bbs see above the entry for the graphics bbs you can call ray ray tracing related bbs chicago suburbs digital pixel sysop mark mcng descartes waterloo edu based toronto ontario canada phone storage space megs modem type baud zyxel bis mnp access fee none free system supported dos amiga mac netmail currently echo mail topics raytracing fractals graphics programming cad any comp graphics related from david tiberio dtiberio sunysb edu amiga graphics bbs long island new york running hours bis with megs line also subscribe mailing lists which originate from our bbs with more added soon these include lightwave imagine real ray tracing database files include imagine objects renderings scalable fonts music modules sound samples demos animations utilities text databases and pending lightwave objects the graphics alternative the graphics alternative cerrito running hours day hst bis with online and user base tga runs two nodes node for public access and includes free day trial subscription tga the west coast host for pcgnet the profesional cad and graphics network supporting nodes across the continental alaska new zealand australia france and the tga file database includes dos executables for pov vivid rtrace rayshade polyray and others tga also has numerous graphics utilities viewers and conversion utilities registered vivid users can also download the latest vivid aeta code from special vivid conference from scott bethke sbathkey access digex com the intersection bbs this bbs dedicated supporting animators the system provided free charge and not commercialized anyway users are given full access the first call features usenet news internet mail fidonet echo netmail megs online bis bis modem platforms interest amiga the videotoaster macintosh dos unix workstations sun sgi etc atari from alfonso hermida afanh robots gsfc nasa gov square bbs maryland supports raytracers such pov and vivid the bbs runs off mhz megs hard drive and rom now runs bps this will change soon topics graphics programming animation raytracing programming general from lynn falkow roxxie delphi com vertech design graphic connection portland oregon bis the bbs aside from carrying typical bbs services like message bases all topic specific and files cad and graphics related hundreds megabytes also offers material texture files that are full color seamlessly tiling photo realistic images there are samples available first time callers the bbs subscription system although callers have hours before they must subscribe and there are several subscription rates available people interested materials can subscribe the library addition basic subscription rate and can use their purchased time download whichever materials they wish ray tracing graphics related mailing lists imagine modeling and animation system for the amiga send subscription requests imagine request email paramax com send material imagine email paramax com dave wickard has substituted steve worley the maintenance the mailing list please note that the unisys com address longer valid lightwave for the amiga part newtek video toaster send subscription requests lightwave request bobsbox rent com send material lightwave bobsbox rent com bob lindabury toaster send subscription requests listserv karazm math edu with body subscribe toaster list real another modeling and animation system for the amiga subscribe send mail containing the body subscribe real your full name listserv uwa edu rayshade send subscription requests rayshade request princeton edu send material rayshade users princeton edu craig kolb alladin for the amiga send subscription requests subscribe xamiga linet org and the body the message write alladin username domain radiance greg ward the author sends registered via mail users digests his correspodence with them notes about fixes updates etc his address gjward lbl gov rend send subscription requests rend request sunee waterloo edu send material rend sunee waterloo edu pov ray dkb raytracers subscribe send mail containing the body subscribe dkb your full name listserv trearn bitnet send material dkb trearn bitnet mailing list for massively parallel rendering send subscription requests render request icase edu send material render icase edu graphics editors public domain free and shareware systems vision mac based program written paul bourke pdbourke ccu aukland the program can used generate models directly the rayshade and radiance file formats polygons only shareware and listed the ftp list brl solid modeling system for most environments including sgi and has csg and nurbs plus support for non manifold geometry whatever you can get free via ftp signing and returning the relevant license found ftp brl mil uses ray tracing for engineering analyses contact carla moyer tel fax cad dist brl mil mail snail mail brl cad distribution surviac aberdeen satellite office old philadelphia road suite aberdeen usa irit constructive solid geometry csg modeling program for and includes freeform surface support free see ftp list for where find surfmodel solid modeling program for written turbo pascal ken van camp available from simtel msdos srfmodl directory noodles from cmu namely fritz printz and levent gursoz elg styx edrc cmu edu based non manifold topology ask them for more info don know they give away xyz xyz interactive editor builder written dale stocker create objects for the surfacemodel automove and dkb raytracer packages xyz free and can found for example simtel msdos surfmodl xyz zip dos only dmod msdos program check barnacle erc clarkson edu pub msdos graphics dmod undocumented file format dmod micah silverman pierrepoint ave postdam new york tel northcad shareware msdos cad ncad zip simtel undocumented file format vertex amiga shareware send check money order the art machine nickolas sterling heights usa addition the now standard file formats including lightwave imagine sculpt turbo silver geo and wavefront this release offers professional and rayshade support rayshade supported only the primitive triangle but you can easily include this output your rayshade scripts the latest demo version available fred fish for more information contact the author alex deburie sycom org phone icoons amiga spline based object modeller icoons interactive coons path editor amiga physik unizh gfx icoons lzh free under the gnu licence and requires fpu the program has look feel which cross between journeyman and imagine and generates objects ttddd format possible load journeyman objects into icoons the program can used convert jman objects imagine format author helge rasmussen her compel phone fax also fred fish disk series nfotis protocad ver from trius shareware wsmr simtel army mil and oak oakland edu pcad zip for pcs has this menu layout file file handling load save import xport draw draw objects line circle box draw objects mesh sphere block edit editing features copy move surface modify objects revolve xtrude sweep image image zooming features update window half option global defaults grid toggles axis plot print drawing picture image render shade objects frame lighting tune layer layer options select active layer set colors sculptura runs under windows and outputs pov files demo can found wuarchive wustl edu mirrors win demo demo zip author michael gibson gibsonm stein washington edu commercial systems alpha spline based modeling program written university utah features splines trimmed nurbs support for boolean operations sweeps bending warping flattening etc groups objects and transformations extensible object types applications include machining animation utilities dimensioning fem analysis etc rendering subsystem with support for animations support the following platforms and sgi machines and irix sun sparcstation sunos licensing and distribution handled egs glenn mcminn president engineering geometry systems east south temple suite salt lake city mcminn utah edu educational pricing the charge per platform you may run the system many different workstations that type you wish for each platform there also licensing fee for portable standard lisp psl which bundled with the system you need obtain additional license from the university utah for psl from the following address professor robert kessler computer science department university utah salt lake city utah egs can handle the licensing psl for institutions for usd nominal fee nfotis vertigo they have educational institution program the package used the industrial design architectural scientific visualization educational broadcast imaging and post production fields they quoting from letter sent nfotis donate fully configured vertigo graphics software worth over usd per package qualified educational institutions for licencing any number silicon graphics personal iris power series workstations you use iris indigo station will also licence our vertigo revolution software worth usd you are interested participating this program please send letter mail fax your institution letterhead briefly outlining your potential uses for vertigo together with the following information unix version model and number sgi systems peripheral devices third party software participants will asked contribute usd per institution cover costs the manual administration and shipping recommend that vertigo users subscribe our technical support services for annual fee you will receive technical assistance our support hotline bug fixes software upgrades and manual updates for educational institution will waive the administration fee support purchased the annual support fee plus the following cost for additional machines number machines additional cost per machine there also day training program nfotis contact vertigo technology inc suite west georgia vancouver canada phone fax does anyone know such offers from tdi alias softimage wavefront etc this would very interesting part nfotis padl basically solid modeling kernel top which you build your application available license from cornell programmable automation cornell university engineering and theory center ithaca license fees are very low for educational institutions and gov agencies internal commercial licenses and dissemination licenses are available for information packet write the above address send your address marisa cpa cornell edu richard marisa acis from spatial technology solid modelling kernel callable from heard that many universities got free copies from the company the person contact regarding acis academic institutions scott owens mail sdo spatial com and their address spatial technology inc bldg boulder phone fax movie byu cquel byu basically understanding this fem pre and post proccessor system fairly old today but still serves some people mech eng depts now superseded from cquel byu pronounced sequel that complete modelling animation and visualization package runs the usual workstation environments sun dec sgi ibm and others you can get demo version days trial period either sending usd their address blank tape costs for full run time licence contact engineering computer graphics lab clyde building brigham young univ provo phone mail cquel byu edu twixt soon add stuff about get reply fax voxblast volume renderer marketed vaytek inc fairfield iowa phone running pcs with fpu least call vaytek for more info voxelbox volume renderer for windows features include direct ray traced volume rendering color and alpha mapping gradient lighting animation reflections and shadows runs higher with least bit video card svga fine under windows costs contact jaguar software inc main suite winchester jwp world std com john poduska scene description languages nff neutral file format eric haines very simple there are some procedural database generators the spd package and many objects floating various ftp sites there also previewer written starbase from haines also there one written vogle you can use any the devices vogle can output check sites carrying vogle like gondwana ecr off object file format from dec randy rost rost kpc com the object archive server seems mothballed future version remove the ref nfotis available also through their mail server obtain help about using this service send message with subject line containing only the word help and null message body object archive server decwrl dec com for ftp places get see the relevant place there off previewer for sgi machines called off preview godzilla cgl rmit there are previewers for xview and sunview also gondwana tddd library objects with translators from off nff rayshade imagine vort objects edited copy the announcement follows from raytracing news new library objects available via ftp steve worley worley cup portal com have assembled set over objects binary format called tddd these objects range from human figures airplanes from semi trucks lampposts these objects are all freely distributable and most have readmes that describe them order convert these objects human readable format file with the specification tddd included the directory with the objects there also shareware system called ttdddlib officially hubcap clemson edu that will convert ala pbm from various object formats imagine ttddd extension tddd off nff rayshade vort source included for amiga unix executables for the amiga also outputs framemaker mif files and isometric views postscript from pittsburgh supercomputing center the uses lisp with slight extensions store three dimensional models simple lisp interpreter included with the release there need have access any vendor lisp run this software the mouse driven user interfaces for motif open look and silicon graphics and the drawp subroutine library for generating without ever looking the underlying lisp the software currently supports nine renderers they are painter painter algorithm dore silicon graphics inc language generic phigs sun phigs dec phigs rayshade art ray tracer from vort package and pixar renderman the code available via anonymous ftp from the machines ftp psc edu directory pub and nic funet directory pub graphics programs renderman pixar renderman not free call pixar for details solids description formats eec esprit project cad cad interfaces has developed neutral file format for transfer cad data curves surfaces and solid models between cad systems and from cad caa computer aided analysis cam computer aided manufacturing iges now tries define standard tranfer solid models brep and csg the current standard number ansi for documentation you might want contact nancy flower ncga technical services and standards ext and the cost this standard not available electronic format pdes step this slowly emerging standard tries encompass not only the geometrical information but also for things like fem etc the main bodies besides this standard are nist and darpa you can get more information about pdes sending mail nptserver cme nist gov and putting the line send index the body not the subject area the message the people rutherford appleton lab are also working step tools they have express compiler and exchange file parser both available source form and for free for research purposes soon they will also have express based database system for the tools contact mike mead phone fax mail inf mcsun uknet rlinf inf nsfnet relay end part the resource listing nick nikolaos fotis national technical univ athens greece home esperidon internet nfotis theseas ntua halandri uucp mcsun ariadne theseas nfotis athens greece fax
comp.graphics	apr computer graphics resource listing weekly part archive name graphics resources list part last modified computer graphics resource listing weekly posting part last change april plotting packages gnuplot one the best and plotting packages with online help command line driven interactive function plotting utility for unix msdos amiga archimedes and vms platforms least freely distributed supports many terminals plotters and printers and easily extensible include new devices was posted comp sources misc version plus patches you can practically find everywhere use archie find site near you the comp graphics gnuplot newsgroup devoted discussion gnuplot xvgr and xmgr ace xmgr plotting tool for unix workstations using openwindows there xview version called xvgr for suns collectively these tools are known ace compiling xmgr requires the motif toolkit version and xmgr will not compile under motif check ftp ccalmr ogi edu ccalmr pub acegr xmgr tar motif version ccalmr pub acegr xvgr tar xview version comments suggestions bug reports paul turner pturner amb ese ogi edu mail fails try pturner ese ogi edu due time constraints replies will few and far between robot release and limited based xview written fortran you need fortran compiler the translator mainly tested sun less decstations check ftp astro psu edu pub astrod plotting library this library fortran callable routines sunspot ceee nist gov xgobi being developed bellcore and its speciality are multidimensional data sets analysis and exploration you can call from the language also and works client using the athena widget set with ascii terminal distributed free charge from statlib cmu get via mail send email statlib temper stat cmu edu and the body area the message put the line send xgobi from general you want pick via ftp connect lib stat cmu edu log statlib and use your mail address your password then type general mget xgobi warning about sources large postscript manual read the relevant readme decide whether you need not pgplot runs vax vms and supposedly unix set fortran routines freely available though copyrighted and requiring nominal fee that includes contour plots and support for various devices including contact tjp deimos caltech edu ggraph host shorty wisc edu pub ggraph tar unknown more details epigraph for pcs call dvj lab phys lgu spb vladimir dmitriev for details you can get the program demo and play version sent budapest posta fiok hungary fax budapest multiplot xln for amigas shareware usd aust advanced package that has big list features contact alan baxter agb mbuc bio cam cambridge university department pathology tennis court road cambridge athena plotter widget set this version based gregory bond version beta added some stuff for scientific graphs log axes free scalable axes lineplots and some more and added plotter callbacks from request the current pointer position cut off rectangle from the plotting area for zooming version has log bugs fixed and log improvements against beta additionally did some other changes extensions besides origin and frame lines for axes subgrid lines subtic positions line plots different line types lines points lines points impulses lines impulses steps bars line styles solid dotted dashed dot dashed and marker types for data points legend the right left hand side the plot optional drawing pixmap instead window layout callback for aligning axis positions when using multiple plotters one application available export lcs mit edu directory contrib plotter sciplot sciplot scientific plotting and manipulation program for the next requires nextstep and shareware features ascii import and export eps export copy cut paste with data buffer free number data points data buffer and document window selective open and save plotting many styles automatic legend subviews linear and logarithmic axes two different axes text and graphic color support zoom normalizing and moving axis conversions free hand data manipulations cut edit move etc data editor sorting data absolute relative and free defined error bars calculating with buffers background subtractions linear shirley tougaard bezier integration and relative integration fitting one more free defined functions linear regression calculations sin cos log etc function generator spline interpolation least square smooth and fft smooth differentiation fft esca calculations and database and something more you can find ftp berlin pub next science sciplot tar author michael wesemann scillerstr berlin germany mike fiasko berlin mpg plplot plplot scientific plotting package for many systems small micro and large super alike despite its small size and quickness has enough power satisfy most users including standard plots semilog plots log log plots contour plots plots mesh plots bar charts and pie charts multiple graphs the same different sizes may placed single page with multiple lines each graph different line styles widths and colors are supported virtually infinite number distinct area fill patterns may used there are almost characters the extended character set this includes four different fonts the greek alphabet and host mathematical musical and other symbols the fonts can scaled any size for various effects many different output device drivers are available system dependent including portable metafile format and renderer freely available but copyrighted via anonymous ftp hagar utexas edu directory pub plplot present plplot known work the following systems unix sunos unicos ultrix other platforms vms amiga exec dos next authors many the main supporters are maurice lebrun mjl fusion utexas edu plplot kernel and the metafile xterm xwindow tektronix and amiga drivers geoff furnish furnish fusion utexas edu dos and drivers tony richardson amr egr duke edu plplot the next supermongo plotting package cmu filename tmp tar probably under the ftp cmu edu andrew cmu edu machines gle gle high quality graphics package for scientists runs variety platforms pcs vaxes and unix with drivers for xwindows regis tek graphics cards plotters postscript printers epson compatible printers and laserjet paintjet printers provides latex quality fonts well full support for postscript fonts the graphing module provides full control over all features graphs the graphics primitives include user defined subroutines for complex pictures and diagrams accompanying utilities include surface for hidden line surface plotting contour for contour plots manip for manipulation columnar data files and fitls for fitting arbitrary equations data available via anon ftp these places gle simtel wuarchive wustl edu and other mirrors msdos graphics gle unix gle zephyr grace cri pub gle unix vms gle zephyr grace cri pub gle vms mailing list glelist send message listserver tbone biol scarolina edu with message boyd containing sub glelist your name maintainer dean pentcheff dean tbone biol scarolina edu image analysis software image processing and display and mac based tools multi platform software imdisp imdisp written jpl and other nasa sites can simple display enhancing smoothing and works with the fits and vicar pds data formats nasa can read tiff images you know their dimensions and macs labview labview used framework for image processing tools provides graphical programming environment using block diagram sketch the program with graphical elements representing the programming elements hundreds functions are already available and are connected using wiring tool create the block diagram program functions that the block diagrams represent include digital signal processing and filtering numerical analysis statistics etc the tool allows any virtual instrument software file that looks and acts like real laboratory instrument used part any other virtual instrument national instruments markets plug digital signal processing dsp boards for macintoshs and compatables that allow real time acquisition and analysis personal computer new software tools for dsp are allowing engineers harness the power this technology the tools range from low level debugging software high level block diagram development software there are three levels dsp programming associated with the dsp board and labview use the dsp analysis library ffts power spectra filters routines callable from think and macintosh programers workshop mpw that execute the dsp board there analysis virtual interface library ready use vis optimized for the dsp use the national instruments developers toolkit that includes optimizing compiler assembler and linker for low level programming the dsp hardware this approach offers the highest level performance but the must difficult terms ease use use the national instruments interface kit software package which has utility functions for memory management data communications and downloading code the dsp board this the easiest route for the development custom code ultimage concept concept graftek france family image processing virtual instruments vis that give labview described above users high end tools for designing integrating and monitoring imaging control systems software file that looks and acts like real laboratory instrument typical applications for concept include thermography surveillance machine vision production testing biomedical imaging electronic microscopy and remote sensing ultimage concept addresses applications which require further qualitative and quantitative analysis includes complete set functions for image enhancement histogram equalization spatial and frequency filtering isolation features thresholding mathematical morphology analysis density measurement object counting sizing and characterization the program loads images with minimum resolution pixel depth bits and one image plane standard input and output formats include pict tiff satie and aipd other formats can imported image enhancement features include lookup table transformations spatial linear and non linear filters frequency filtering arithmetic and logic operations and geometric transformations among others morphological transformations include erosion dilation opening closing hole removal object separation and extraction skeletons among others quantitative analysis provides for objects detection measurement and morphological distribution measures include area perimeter center gravity moment inertia orientation length relevant chords and shape factors and equivalence measures are saved ascii format the program also provides for macro scripting and integration custom modules view command plots perspective data graph where image intensity depicted mountains valleys the plot the histogram tool can plotted with either linear logarithmic scale the twenty eight arithmetic and logical operations provide for masking and averaging sections images noise removal making comparisons etc there are spatial filters that alter pixel intensities based local intensity these include high pass filters for contrast and outlines the frequency data resulting from fft analysis can displayed either the real imaginary components the phase magnitude data the morphological transformations are useful for data sharpening and defining objects for removing artifacts the transformations include thresholding eroding dilating and even hole filling the program quantitative analysis measurements include area perimeter center mass object counts and angle between points gtfs inc bennett valley road santa rosa iplab spectrum iplab spectrum supports image processing and analysis but lacks the morphology and quantitative analysis features provided graftek franceus ultimage concept using scripting tools the user tells the system the operations performed the problem that far too many basic operations require manual intervention the tool supports ffts arithmetic operations for pixel alteration and movie command for cycling through windows macintosh based tools ncsa image ncsa paledit and more ncsa provides whole suite public domain visualization tools for the macintosh primarily aimed researchers wanting visualize results from numerical modelling calculations these applications documentation and source code are available for anonymous ftp from ftp ncsa uiuc edu commercial versions the ncsa programs have been developed spyglass spyglass inc devonshire drive champaign fax nih image available alw nih gov preferably zippy nimh nih gov directory pub image has painting and image manipulation tools macro language tools for measuring areas distances and angles and for counting things using frame grabber card can record sequences images played back movie can invoke user defined convolution matrix filters such gaussian can import raw data tab delimited ascii byte quantities also does histograms and even plots limited bits pixel though the bits map into color lookup table runs any mac that has color screen and fpu get the nonfpu version from zippy nimh nih gov photomac data translation inc locke marlboro photopress blue solutions marigold place thousand oaks pixeltools and tcl image complete family pixeltools hardware accelerator and applications software for scientific image processing and analysis video rate capture display processing and analysis high resolution monochromatic and color images includes source code tcl image software package for scientific quantitative image processing and analysis provides complete language for the capture enhancement and extraction quantitative information from gray scale images tcl image has over functions for image processing and contains the other elements needed full programming language for algorithm development variables and control structures easily extensible through script indirect command files these script files are simply text files that contain tcl image commands they are executed normal commands and include the ability pass parameters the direct capture video images supported via popular frame grabber boards tcl image comes with the view utility that provides conversion between common image file types such pict and tiff perceptics pellissippi parkway knoxville satellite image workshop comes with number satellite pictures raw data and does all sorts image enhancing you need least mac with processor color display and large harddisk the program doesn run under system ate the documentation the contact address given liz smith jet propulsion laboratory oak grove pasadena visualization workbench electronic imaging software system that performs interactive image analysis and scientific and plotting paragon imagine lincoln lowell adobe photoshop the tool supports rtrue colors with bit images levels grey scale once image has been imported can rre toucheds with various editing tools typical those used macintosh based rpaints applications these include eraser pencil brush and air brush advanced rpastes tools that control the interaction between pasted selection and the receiving site have also been incorporated for example all red pixels selection can easily preventing from being pasted photoshop has transparencies ranging from allowing you create ghost overlays rphoto editings tools include control the brightness and contrast color balancing hue saturation modification and spectrum equalization images can subjected various signal processing algorithms smooth sharpen the image blur edges locate edges image scaling also supported for storage savings the images can compressed using standard algorithms including externally supplied compression such jpeg availlable from storm technologies the latest version adobe photoshop supports the import numerous image formats including epsf epsf tiff pict resource amiga iff ilbm compuserve gif macpaint pixar pixelpaint scitex tga and thunderscan adobe systems inc charlestown road box mountain view colorstudio and imagestudio colorstudio image editing and paint package from letraset that has more features than adobe photoshop but decidedly more complex and therefore more difficult use several steps are often required accomplish that which can done single step using photoshop the application requires great deal available disk space one can easily end with images the range the program provides variety powerful selection tools including the auto selection tool which lets the user choose image areas the basis color close hues color range and mask imagestudio don know letraset usa eisenhower drive paramus dapple systems high resolution image analysis software provides processing tools work with multiple images enhance and edit and measure variety global feature parameters and interpret the data dapple systems olive ave sunnyvale digital darkroom the latest release digital darkroom has five new selection and editing tools for enhancing images one such feature allows the user select part image simply painting new polyline selection tool creates selection tool for single pixel wide selections brush lets the operator paint with selected portion the image note that this not true color image enhancement tool this tool should used when the user intends operate grey scale images only should noted that digital darkroom not powerful either adobe photoshop colorstudio silicon beach software carroll ctr suite san diego dimple compatible with system and system requires mac series with colours with recommended min ram has the capability reading erdas files functions include image enhancement and contour plots image statistics supervised and unsupervised classification pca and other image transformations there also means image operation language iol which you can write your own transformations there image rectification however dimple compatable with mapii the latest version and the beta stage testing dimple was initially developed teaching tool and very good for this purpose dimple runs colour macintosh product still its development phase doesn have all the inbuilt features other packages but coming along nicely has its own inbuilt language for writing programs for processing image defining convolution filters etc dimple full mac application with pull down menus etc unprotected software process software solutions box wollongong new south wales australia phone fax enhance enhance has rrulers tool that supports measurements and additionally provides angle data the tool has over mathematical filter variations laplacian medium noise filter etc files can saved either tiff pict epsf text however epsf files can imported microfrontier hickman road des moines image analyst image processing product for users who need extract quantitative data from video images image analyst lets users configure sophisticated image processing and measurement routines without the necessity knowing programming language designed for such tasks computing number and size cells images projected video cameras attached microscopes enhancing and measuring distances radiographs image analyst provides users with array field proven video analysis techniques that enable them easily assemble sequence instructions enhance feature appearance count objects determine density shape size position movement perform object feature extraction and conduct textural analysis automatically image analyst works with either framegrabber board and any standard video camera disk stored image within minutes without the need for programming the image analyst user can set process identify and analyze any element image measurements and statistics can automatically semi automatically generated from tiff pict files from captured video tape images image analyst recognizes items images based their size shape and position the tool provides direct support for the data translation and scion frame grabbers menu command allows for image capture from vcr video camera other ntsc pal devices there are types files the image itself and the related sequence file that holds the processing measurements and analysis that the user defines automated sequences are set regions interest roi represented movable sizable boxes atop the image inside roi the program can find the distance between two edges the area shape the thickness wall etc image analyst finds the center edge and other positions automatically the application also provides tools that the user can work interactively find the edge object also supports histograms and color look table clut tool automatix inc middlesex turnpike billerica iplab signal analytics corp maple ave vienna fax menu driven image processing software that supports bit color pseudocolor grayscale image display and manipulation map among the mac gis systems map distributed john wiley has integrated image analysis image from stanford try anonymous ftp from sumex aim stanford edu has source for image and ready run code for mac under image windows dos based tools ccd richard berry ccd imaging book for willamon bell contains optional disks with image manipulating software source code included erdas erdas will all the things you want rectification classification transformations canned user defined overlays filters contrast enhancement etc was using thesis then changed the topic bit that work became secondary erdas inc buford highway suite atlanta fax rsvga have been getting speed program called rsvga available from eidetic digital image ltd british columbia its for ibm clones cheap about and does all the stuff erdas does but not fast powerful though have had only limited experience with erdas have used rsvga with landsat bands and good starter program except for the obtuse manual imagine bit package suppose for pcs called imagine image the program does modest amount image processing add subtract multiply divide display and plot cut across the image can also display number images simultaneously the company compuscope santa barbara vista was announced the august edition pasp known available from mike richmond whose email addresses have been richmond bllac berkeley edu richmond bkyast berkeley edu and his mail address michael richmond astronomy department campbell hall berkeley the latest version vista version includes not only the source code and help files but also complete set executable programs and number sample fits images you wish use the source code you will need microsoft version later other compilers may work but will require substantial modifications receive the documentation and nine double density floppies three quad density inch floppies with everything them just send request for vista together with your name and mail address office technology licensing shattuck ave suite berkeley include check traveller checks are fine purchase order for dollars your address inside the continental otherwise made out regents the university california cover duplication and mailing costs software tools set software tools put out canyon state systems and software they are not free but rather cheap about heard will handle most all the formats used frame grabber software mirage image processing software written jim gunn the astrophysics dept princeton will run among other platforms forth based system forth language with many image processing displaying functions built data translation source book the data translation company massachusetts publishes free book containing vendors data analysis hardware and software which compatible with data translation and other frame grabbers surely you can find much more related stuff maxen couple canadians have written program named maxen which does maximum entropy image deconvolution their company named digital signal processing software something like that and the software mentioned article astronomy magazine either jan feb article ccd film jandel scientific java another software package java put out jandel scientific jandel scientific koch road corte madera microbrian runs dos platform and uses bit graphics card vista about released version will support number super vga cards its full blown remote sensed data processing system menu driven character based screen but does not use windowed user interface its hardware protected with dongle mbrian micro barrier reef image anaysis system was developed csiro commonwealth scientific industrial organization and marketed supported mpa australia lusher road croydon victoria tel fax there are educational and commercial prices but prepared set aside for the first educational licence subsequent ones come cheaper they need has installed sites worldwide widely used anu microimage the remote sensing lab here dartmouth currently uses terra mar microimage pcs with some fancy display hardware terra mar resource information services inc landings drive mountain view fax unix based tools iraf image reduction and analysis facility developed the national optical astronomy observatory kitt peak free you can ftp from tucana noao edu and complement with stsdas from stsci edu email iraf noao edu for more details apparently this one the facto standards the astronomical image community they issue newsletter also they seem support very well their users works with vms also last heard and practically has its own shell top the vms unix shells suggested that you get copy saoimage for display under windows very flexible extendable tons literally linear feet documentation for the general user skilled user and programmer alv sun specific image toolkit version posted comp sources sun dec also available via email alv users request bris aips astronomical image processing system contact aipsmail nrao edu also see the usenet newsgroups alt sci astro aips and sci astro fits built nrao national radio astronomy observatory charlottesville sites software distributed track exabyte dat non anonymous internet ftp documentation postscript mostly available via anonymous ftp baboon nrao edu directory pub aips and pub aips text publ installation requires building the system and thus fortran and compiler this package can read and write fits data see sci astro fits and primarily for reduction analysis and image enhancement radio astronomy data from radio telescopes particularly the very large array vla synthesis instrument consists almost programs that everything from copying data sophisticated deconvolution via maximum entropy there based image tool xas and tek compatible xterm based graphics tool built into aips the xas tool modelled after the hardware functionality the international imaging systems model display unit and can image arithmetic etc the code mostly fortran with some system language modules and available for suns ibm dec ultrix convex cray unicos and alliant with support planned for solaris and maybe sgi there currently project aips underway rewrite the algorithmic functionality aips modern setting using and object oriented approach whereas aips proprietary code licensed for free non profit institutions owner nrao and the nsf aips will the public domain some level international effort with contributions from the canada england the netherlands india and australia name few laboimage version out for written and currently runs sun xxx sun xxx and under sunview the expert system for image segmentation written allegro common lisp was used the following domains computer science image analysis medicine biology physics distributed free charge source code available via anonymous ftp ftp ads com pub vision list archive shareware laboimage contact prof thierry pun computer vision group computing science center geneva rue lac geneva switzerland phone fax mail pun cui unige pun cgeuge bitnet figaro was originally made for vms and can obtained from keith shortridge australia aaoepp aao gov and for unix from sam southard caltech sns deimos caltech edu about mbytes sun khoros moved the scientific visualization category below vista the real thing available via anonymous ftp from lowell edu email vista lowell edu for more details total size less than mbytes disimp device independent software for image processing powerful system providing both user friendliness and high functionality interactive times feature description disimp incorporates rich library image processing utilities and spatial data options all functions can easily accessed via the disimp executive this menu modular design and groups image processes their function such logical structure means that complicated processes are simply progression through series modules processes include image rectification classification unsupervised and supervised intensity transformations three dimensional display and principal component analysis disimp also supports the more simple and effective enhancement techniques filtering band subtraction and ratioing host configuration requirements running unix workstations disimp capable processing the more computational intensive techniques interactive processing times disimp available both runtime and programmer environments using the programmers environment utilities can developed for specific applications programs graphics are governed icon based display panel which allows quick enhancments displayed image manipulations look tables colour stretches changes histograms zooming and panning can interactively driven through this control range geographic projections enables disimp integrate data image graphic and textual types images can rectified number coordinate systems providing the true geographic knowledge essential for ground truthing overlays grids text and vector data can added further enhance referenced imagery the system flexible package allowing users various skill levels determine their own working environment including the amount help required disimp comes fully configured with optional extras the purchase price includes all functionality required for professional processing remote sensed data for further information please contact the business manager clough engineering group systems division chapel street south yarra australia telephone fax global imaging software use global imaging software process avhrr data from the dish the final display select chunk five band data from pass automatic navigation calibrate albedo and temp convert that byte register predesigned window all relatively automatically and carefree has classification routines speak but isn that difficult write your own with their programmer module very small operation one designs one codes one sells been around for number years sold weather service and navy runs with supports bit display hips human information processing laboratory image processing system michael landy wrote and sell general purpose package for image processing which has been used for basically all the usual image processing applications robotics medical satellite engineering oil exploration etc called hips and deals with sequences multiband images the same way deals with single images has been growing since first wrote both additions from well huge user contributed library feature description hips set image processing modules which together provide powerful suite tools for those interested research system development and teaching handles sequences images movies precisely the same manner single frames programs and subroutines have been developed for simple image transformations filtering convolution fourier and other transform processing edge detection and line drawing manipulation digital image compression and transmission methods noise generation and image statistics computation over such image transformation programs have been developed result almost any image processing task can performed quickly and conveniently additionally hips allows users easily integrate their own custom routines new users become effective using hips their first day hips features images that are self documenting each image stored the system contains history the transformations that have been applied that image hips includes small set subroutines which primarily deals with standardized image sequence header and large library image transformation tools the form unix filters comes complete with source code line manual pages and line documentation host configuration requirements originally developed new york university hips now represents one the most extensive and flexible vision and image processing environments currently available runs under the unix operating system modular and flexible provides automatic documentation its actions and almost entirely independent special equipment hips now use variety computers including vax and microvax sun apollo masscomp ncr tower iris ibm etc for image display and input drivers are supplied for the grinnell and adage ikonas image processors and the sun sun sun and sun consoles also supply user contributed drivers for number other framestores and windowing packages sun gfx sun console matrox vip iti lexidata macintosh windowing system and iris the hipsaddon package includes interface for the crs simple matter interface hips with other frame stores and can put interested users touch with users who have interfaced hips with the arlunya and datacube max video hips can easily adapted for other image display devices because hips machine independent availability hips has proven itself highly flexible system both interactive research tool and for more production oriented tasks both easy use and quickly adapted and extended new uses hips supplied magnetic tape unix tar format either reel reel sun cartridge and comes with source code libraries library convolu tion masks and line documentation and manual pages michael landy sharpimage software box prince street station new york voice fax msl cns nyu edu mira please don confuse that with the thalmanns animation system from montreal these are altogether different beasts nfotis mira stands for microcomputer image reduction and analysis mira gives workstation level performance dos computers using svga cards color modes mira contains very handsome functional gui which mouse and keystroke operated mira reads writes tiff and fits formats native formats number ccd cameras and uncompressed binary images byte short integer and byte real pixel format dimensions the result image processing operation can short integer real pixels the same that the input image mira does the operation using short floating point arithmetic maintain the precision and accuracy the pixel format over functions are hand coded assembly language for maximum speed the intel hardware the entire graphical interface also written assembly language maximize the speed windowing operations windows for image and image data display and analysis have dedicated cursors which read position and value value real time you move the mouse there are also smooth real time contrast and brightness stretch and panning magnified portion the displayed image all operated the mouse wide selection grayscale pseudocolor and random palettes provided and other palettes can generated supported functions include such niceties the following image image interpolation image constant unary operations abs value polynomial pixel value chs log byteswap clip values upper lower limits short real real short combine images mean median mode sum pixel values with without autoscaling mean median mode image section convolutions filters laplacian sobel edge operator directional gradient line gaussian elliptical and rectangular equal weight filters unsharp masking median filters user defined filter kernel ellipse rectangle line gradient gaussian and user defined filters can rotated any specified angle ccd data reduction flat fielding dark subtraction column over underscan bias removal remove bad pixels and column defects normalize region target mean median modal value create subimage mosaic images get larger image collapse image into image plot section collapsed section image plot histogram region image review change image information header data rename keywords plot keyword values for set images luminance photometry elliptical circular aperture photometry brightness profile isophotal photometry between set upper lower luminances area and luminance inside traced polygon interactive background fitting and removal from part all image fit elliptical aperture shape image isophotes interactive with image contrast brightness diagonal plot pixel values distance between two points compute region stats centroid pan location image center zoom times change cursor rectangle crosshair full image crosshair off and adjust cursor size image select linear log gamma transfer function histogram equalization interactive specified image offset computation and sampling for registration interactive with image zoom both steps times current center plot enlarge framed area plot buffers can cycled through interactive data analysis polynomial fitting point deletion undelete change value point weighting linear and quadratic loess and binomial smoothing revert unit point weights original data buffer substitute results into data buffer for pass back calling function dump data buffer overlays and error bars file printer change user specified coordinate system tricolor image combination and display hardcopy halftone printout pcl compatible printers laserjet deskjet etc documentation over pages custom vinyl binder cost usd copy available from axiom research inc box tucson phone fax international marketing rep saguaro scientific corporation tucson arizona end part the resource listing nick nikolaos fotis national technical univ athens greece home esperidon internet nfotis theseas ntua halandri uucp mcsun ariadne theseas nfotis athens greece fax
comp.graphics	apr computer graphics resource listing weekly part archive name graphics resources list part last modified computer graphics resource listing weekly posting part last change april scene generators geographical data maps data files dems digital elevation models dems digital elevation models well other cartographic data huge available from spectrum xerox com pub map contact lee moore webster research center xerox corp voice arpa internet moore wbst xerox com check also ncgia ucsb edu pub dems nfotis many these files are also available rom selled usgs scale digital line graph dlg data contains datas for all states price about call visit offices menlo park reston virginia usa maps the data user services division the bureau the census also has data rom tso standard format that derived from usgs map data call for more info they have bbs from dobbs march the defense mapping agency cooperation with their counterpart agencies canada the and australia have released the digital chart the world dcw this chart consists over gigabytes reasonable quality vector data distributed four roms includes coastlines rivers roads railrays airports cities towns spot elevations and depths and over place names iso compatible and only available from geological survey box denver federal center denver digital distribution services energy mines and resources canada booth street ottawa canada director general military survey survey elmwood avenue feltham middlesex united kingdom director survey australian army department defense campbell park offices campbell act australia fractal landscape generators public domain many people have written fractal landscape generators for example for the mac some these generators were written pdbourke ccu aukuni paul bourke many the programs are available from the ftp sites and mail archive servers check with archie commercial vista pro for the amiga from virtual reality labs list price about their address vrl ganador court san luis obispo telephone fax scenery animator also for the amiga the same caliber with vista pro check with natural graphics box raklin phone don forget ask about companion programs and data disks tapes vista pro has been ported the pcs cia world map note this database quite out date and not topologically structured you need standard for world cartographic data wait for the digital chart the world this database has been produced from the defense mapping agency oncs and will available together with searching and viewing software number roms later this summer check into hanauma stanford edu and ucsd edu see ftp list above the cia database consists coastlines rivers and political boundaries the form line strokes also hanauma stanford edu array elevation data containing one ieee floating point number for every half degree longitude and latitude program for decoding the database mfil can found the machine arc umn edu there another program which reads compressed cia data bank file and builds phigs hierachical structure uses phigs extension known polyline sets for performance but you can use regular polylines ask joe stewart joes lpi liant com the raw data stanford require the vplot package able view was posted comp sources unix more exact you have compile just the libvplot routines not the whole package ncar data ncar national center for atmospheric research has many types terrain data ranging from elevation datasets various resolutions information about soil types vegetation etc this data not free they charge from more depending the data volume and media exabyte tape cartridge track tape ibm floppy and ftp transfer are all available their data archive mostly research oriented not hobbyist oriented for more information email ilana ncar ucar edu unc data tapes with voxel data there are public domain tapes with data for the comparison and testing various volume rendering algorithms mainly mri and scans these tapes are distributed the softlab unc chapel hill softlab unc edu the data sets volume and are also available via anonymous ftp from omicron unc edu pub softlab chvrtd nasa many agencies such nasa publish roms with many altimetry data from various space missions viking for mars magellan for venus etc especially for nasa would suggest call the following address for more info national space science date center goddard space flight center greenbelt maryland telephone email address request nssdca gsfc nasa gov the data catalog not the data itself available online internet users can telnet nssdca gsfc nasa gov and log nodis password you can also dial baud bits parity one stop the enter number prompt enter and carriage return when the system responds call complete enter few more carriage returns get the username and log nodis password nssdca also anonymous ftp site but comprehensive list what there available present earth sciences data there listing anonymous ftp sites for earth science data including imagery this listing called earth sciences resources internet and you can get via anonymous ftp from csn org the directory cogs under the name internet resources earth sci some sites include aurelie soest hawaii edu pub avhrr images avhrr images ames arc nasa gov pub space cdrom images from magellan and viking missions etc pub space index contains listing files available the whole archive the index about itself there also mail server for the people without internet access send letter archive server ames arc nasa gov ames archive server the subject your letter the body use commands like send space index send space shuttle capitalization important only text files are handled the email server present vab larc nasa gov pub gifs misc landsat landsat photos gif and jpeg format was shut down nfotis anyone has copy this archive others daily values river discharge streamflow and daily weather data available from earthinfo central ave boulder these disks are expensive around but there are quantity discounts check vmd cso uiuc edu the directory carries data regarding surface analysis weather radar and sat view pics gif format updated hourly pioneer unm edu the space and planetary image facility located the university new mexico campus ftp server provides anonymous ftp access roms with data images disk with earthquake data topography gravity geopolitical info available from ngdc national geophysical data center broadway boulder eosat least the now sells landsat mss data older than two years old for per scene and they have been talking about similar deal for landsat data the mss data are bands meter resolution check out anonymous ftp ftp ncsa uiuc edu unix polyview alpha shape for tool that creates convex hulls alpha shapes generalization the convex hull from point sets the grips gov raster image processing software rom available from rom inc for code for viewing adrg arc digitised raster graphics files available the grips rom the army engineer topographic labs juan perez code also available via ftp adrg zip archive spectrum xerox com nrcc range data rioux cournoyer the nrcc three dimensional image data files tech report cnrc national research council canada ottawa canada from what understand these data are from laser range finder and you can copy for research purposes scanners digitized data cyberware labs monterey manufactures color laser digitizer which can used model parts complete human body they run service bureau also they can digitize models for you address cyberware labs inc harris suite monterey phone fax polhemus makes input device actually couple models that senses position and orientation based electromagnetic field interference this equipment also incorporated the vpl dataglove this hardware also called isotrack from keiser aerospace ascension technology makes similar input device there company applied sciences that makes input device position only based speed sound triangulation company that specializes digitizing viewpoint you can ask for viewpoint free page catalog full ready ship datasets from categories such cars anatomy aircraft sports boats trains animals and others though these objects are quite expensive the cataloge nevertheless interest for has pictures all the available objects wireframe polygon mesh contact viewpoint west center orem utah fax dataset some addresses for companies that make digitizers ascension technology bird flock birds big bird trackers box burlington phone fax polhemus incorporated digitizer trackers box hercules colchester tel logitech inc red baron ultrasonic mouse kaiser freemont tel shooting star technology mechanical headtracker holdom ave burnaby canada tel fax spaceball technologies inc spaceball stationary input device suffolk street lowell tel fax tel mountain view transfinite systems gold brick powerglove for macintosh box mit branch post office cambridge tel email applelink apple com vpl research inc eyephone head mounted display dataglove glove hand input device vpl research inc tower lane floor foster city tel fax simgraphics engineering flying mouse input device huntington suite south pasadena background imagery textures datafiles first check the ftp places that are mentioned the faq the ftp list above bit scanning get good bit scanner like epson suggested scsi port for speed eric haines had suggestion news volume scan textures for wallpapers and floor coverings etc from doll house supplies you have rather cheap way scan patterns that don have scaling troubles associated with real materials and scanning area books with textures find some houses books magazines that carry photographic material educorp sells roms with various imagery also wide variety stock art available stock art from big name stock art houses such comstock uniphoto and metro image base available italy there company called belvedere that makes such books for the purpose clipping their pages for inclusion your graphics work their address edition belvedere ltd rome italy piazzale flaminio tel fax texture libraries mannikin sceptre graphics announced textiles set bit textures initial shipments bit iff for amigas soon bit tiff format algorithmically built for tiled surfaces srp volume each volume images disks demo disks for are available contact mannikin sceptre graphics indiana ave winter park phone fax essence library sixty five new algoritmic textures for imagine impulse inc these textures are fully compatible with the floating point versions imagine imagine and even turbo silver written steve worley for more info contact essence info apex software publishing camino real suite menlo park usa what about texture city introduction rendering algorithms ray tracing assume you have general understanding computer graphics then read some the books that the faq contains for ray tracing would suggest introduction ray tracing andrew glassner academic press isbn note that have not read the book but feel that you can wrong using his book errata list was posted comp graphics eric haines erich eye com there more concise reference also roman kuchkuda unc chapel hill introduction ray tracing theoretical foundations for computer graphics and cad earnshaw nato vol printed springer verlag contains code for small but fundamentally complete ray tracer buffer depth buffer good reference procedural elements for computer graphics david rogers mcgraw hill new york pages and others more info needed nfotis where can find the geometric data for the teapot displays display column ieee jan has the whole story about origin the martin newell teapot the article also has the bezier patch model and pascal program display the wireframe model the teapot ieee sep jim blinn column jim blinn corner describes another way model the teapot bezier curves with rotations for example are used the off and spd packages have these objects you advised get them avoid typing the data yourself the off data triangles specific resolution around triangles meshing per patch the spd package provides the spline patch descriptions and performs tessellation any specified resolution space shuttle tolis lerios tolis nova stanford edu has built list space shuttle datafiles here summary from his sci space list model modified version the newsgroup model model vertices useful referred the polygon descriptions polygons vertex vertex vertex vertex payload doors non existent units unknown simon marshall marshall sequent hull has copy said there proprietary information associated with model the newsgroup model off format you can find gondwana ecr file pub off objects shuttle geo hanauma stanford edu pub graphics comp graphics objects shuttle data model the triangles model this model stored several files each defining portions the model greg henderson henders infonode ingr com has copy did not mention any restriction the model distribution model the nasa model the file starts off with header line containing three real numbers defining the offsets used lockheed their simulations offset offset offset from then the file consists sequence polygon descriptions vertices polygons vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex vertex payload doors closed units inches jon berndt jon jsc nasa gov seems responsible for the model proprietary info unknown model the old shuttle model the file consists sequence polygon descriptions vertices polygons vertex vertex payload doors open units meters have been using this model star labs stanford university for some years now contact tolis nova stanford edu supervisor scott williams scott star stanford edu you want copy image annotation software touchup runs sunview and pretty good reads rasterfiles but even your image isn normally stored rasterfile format you could use screendump make rasterfile idraw part stanford interviews distribution can handle some image formats addition being macdraw like tool not sure exactly what they are you can ftp the idraw binary from interviews stanford edu tgif another macdraw like tool that can handle bitmap xbm and pixmap xpm formats the image you have formats other than xbm xpm you can get the pbmplus toolkit convert things like gif even some macintosh formats xpm tgif sources are available the pub directory ucla edu version tgif patchlevel plus patch and patch use the editimage facility khoros see below this just one utility the overall system you can essentially all your image processing and macdraw type graphics using this package you might able get with pbmplus pbmtext gives you text output bitmaps which can overlaid top your image ice requires sun hardware running openwindows postscript based graphical editor and available for anonymous ftp from internet host soest hawaii edu requires sun and two other locally developed packages the lxt library xlib based toolkit and small class library all files pub ice tar pub lxt tar and pub ldgoc tar are available compressed tar format pub ice tar contains readme that gives installation instructions well extensive man page ice statically linked compressed executable pub ice sun for sparc systems also available for ftp all software the property columbia university and may not redistributed without permission ice means image composition environment and imaging tool that allows raster images combined with wide variety postscript annotations wysiwyg fashion via imaging routines and news postscript rasterizing use imagemagick annotate image from your server pick the position your text with the cursor and choose your font and pen color from pull down menu imagemagick can read and write many the more popular image formats imagemagick available export lcs mit edu contrib imagemagick tar your nearest archive scientific visualization stuff data slice xds bundled with the distribution from mit the contrib directory available ftp ncsa uiuc edu either source binaries for various platforms national center for supercomputing applications ncsa tool suite platforms unix workstations dec ibm sgi sun apple macintosh cray supercomputers availability now available source code the public domain ftp from ftp ncsa uiuc edu contact national center for supercomputing applications computing applications building springfield ave champaign cost free zero dollars the suite includes tools for image and scene analysis and visualization the code actively maintained and updated spyglass they sell commercial versions the ncsa tools examples are spyglass dicer volumetric data analysis package platform mac spyglass transform data analysis package platforms mac sgi sun dec ibm contact spyglass inc box champaign khoros patch available via anonymous ftp pprg eece unm edu pub khoros see what available huge but good needs unix and freely copied not complete with sources and docs very extensive and its heart visual programming khoros components include visual programming language code generators for extending the visual language and adding new application packages the system interactive user interface editor interactive image display package extensive library image and signal processing routines and plotting packages see comp soft sys khoros usenet and the relative faq for more info contact the khoros group room eece dept university new mexico albuquerque email khoros request chama eece unm edu macphase analysis visualization application for the macintosh operates and data arrays import export several different file formats several different plotting options such gray scale color raster wire frame surface contour vector line and combinations ffts filtering and other math functions color look editor array calculator etc shareware available via anonymous ftp from sumex aim stanford edu the info mac app directory for other information contact doug norton mail compuserve com iris explorer application creation system developed silicon graphics that provides visualisation and analysis functionality for computational scientists engineers and other scientists the explorer gui allows users build custom applications without having write any minimal amount traditonal code also existing code can easily integrated into the explorer environment explorer currently available now sgi and cray machines but will become available other platforms time bundled with every new sgi machine far know see comp graphics explorer comp sys sgi for discussion the package there are also two ftp servers for related stuff modules etc ftp epcc swedishchef lerc nasa gov mirror the site ape back the old good days you could get ape for nearly free now has gone commercial and the following vendor supplies taravisual corporation harrison avenue columbus ohio tel and fax cost plus tax runtime version with site license for single user time limit the number machines cluster includes support maintenance and upgrades source code more additional user licenses the name the package has become ape iii khoros very similar ape philosophy are avs and explorer avs see also comp graphics avs platforms convex cray dec evans sutherland ibm kubota set technologies sgi stardent sun wavetracer availability avs available all the above for all unix workstations contact advanced visual systems inc fifth ave waltham telephone fax avs avs com email advanced visual systems inc for cray ibm sgi stardent sun convex for convex advanced visual systems inc cray for cray dec for dec evans sutherland for evans sutherland advanced visual systems inc ibm for ibm kubota pacific inc for kubota set technologies for set technologies wavetracer for wavetracer ftp site for modules data sets other info avs ncsc org wit nutshell package the same genre avs explorer etc seems more image processing system than generic scivi system imho major elements are visual programming language which automatically exploits the inherent parallelism code generator which converts the graph standalone program iconified libraries present rich set point filter transform morphological segmentation and measurement operations flow library allows graphs employ broadcast merge synchronization conditional and sequencing control strategies wit delivers object oriented distributed visual programming environment which allows users rapidly design solutions their imaging problems users can consolidate both software and hardware developments within complete cad like workspace adding their own operators functions objects data structures and servers specialized hardware wit runs sun sgi and supports datacube hardware allowing you run your graphs real time for free wit demo disk call fax mail poon ubc stating your complete name address voice fax mail info and desired platform pricing wit for sparc one free upgrades days technical support academic institutions discounts available contact logical vision ltd suite gilmore way burnaby canada tel fax terry arden poon ubc vis system for visually exploring the output gridded data sets such those made weather models platforms sgi iris with vgx gtx graphics sgi crimson indigo elan graphics suggested irix ibm with graphics aix version later stardent and with truecolor display any case more ram are suggested you can get freely thanks nasa support via anonymous ftp ftp iris ssec wisc edu ftp then ftp pub vis ftp ascii ftp get readme ftp bye note you can find the package also wuarchive wustl edu the graphics graphics packages directory read section the readme file for full instructions how get and install vis contact bill hibbard whibbard vms macc wisc edu brian paul bpaul vms macc wisc edu dataexplorer ibm platforms ibm risc system ibm power visualization server simd mesh mhz working announced sgi sun contact your local ibm rep for trial package ask your rep contact david kilgore data explorer product marketing yktvmh kilcore wavefront data visualizer personal visualizer advanced visualizer platforms sgi sun ibm dec availability available all the above platforms from wavefront technologies educational programs and site licenses are available contacts mike wilson mike wti com wavefront technologies inc east montecito street santa barbara fax wavefront europe guldenspoorstraat gent belgium fax wavefront technologies japan shinjuku sumitomo bldg nishi shinjuku shunjuku tokyo japan fax plot and fast from nasa ames these packages are distributed from cosmic least for fast ask pat elson pelson nas nasa gov for distribution information general these codes are for citizens only xgraph the contrib tape its specialty display data sets ncar national center for atmospheric research one the original graphics packages runs sun sgi vax cray decstations and more contact graphics information ncar scientific computing division box boulder scdinfo ncar ucar edu cost edu unlimited users gov user users users com users multiply gov idl environment for scientific computing and visualization based array oriented language idl includes and graphics matrix manupulation signal and image processing basic statistics gridding mapping and widget based system for building gui for idl applications open look motif windows environments dec vms and ultrix ibm sgi sun microsoft windows mac version progress cost educational and quantity discounts available see also comp lang idl pvwave the idl pvwave bundle contact research systems inc street suite boulder phone fax mail info rsinc com demo available via ftp call mail for details idl sips lot people are using idl with package called sips this was developed the university colorado boulder some people working for alex goetz you might try contacting them you already have idl would willing buy few thousand dollars american expect for idl and the other should free those are the general purpose packages heard besides what terramar has sips was written for aviris imagery not sure how general purpose you would have contact goetz one his people and ask have another piece software pcw that does and walsh transformations with pseudocoloring and clustering and limited image modification you can compute image using selected components used megabyte aviris images without problems but for the best speed you need external dsp card will work without but large images take quite while times long process that freebie you want favorite idl interactive data language from research systems inc idl opinion much better and infinitely easier its programming language very strong and easy very pascal like handles the number crunching very well also personally like doing the number crunching with idl the vax mathematica igor even excel the mac not too hairy then bringing over nih image for the imaging part have yet encounter any situation which that combination couldn handle and the speed and ease use compared iraf was incredible the way mostly astronomical image processing which been doing this means image enhancement cleaning bad lines pixels and some other traditional image processing routines then for example taking graph intensity versus position along line choose with the mouse then doing curve fit that line which might like kaleidagraph for idl call research systems for wave call precision visuals and for sips call university colorado boulder from what can understand you can get packaged programs from research systems though nfotis visual contact robert haimes mit fieldview interactive program designed assist engineer investigating fluid dynamics data sets platforms sgi ibm sun terminals availability currently available all the above platforms educational programs and volume discounts are available contact intelligent light box fair lawn steve kramer kramer ilight com scian scian primarily intended visualizations data interactive environment with the ability generate animations using frame accurate video recording devices user manual line help and technical notes will help you use the program cost free source code provided via ftp platforms sgi machines and ibm with the card buffer where find ftp scri fsu edu pub scian mirror monu monash edu pub scian scry from the readme scry distributed image handling system that pro vides image transport and compression local and wide area networks image viewing workstations recording video equipment and storage disk the system can distri buted among workstations between supercomputers and works tations and between supercomputers workstations and video animation controllers the system most commonly used produce video based movie displays images resulting from visualization time dependent data complex data sets and image processing operations both the clients and servers run variety systems that provide unix like run time environments and bsd sockets the source available for anonymous ftp csam lbl gov pub scry tar contact bill johnston wejohnston lbl gov ucbvax csam lbl gov johnston david robertson dwrobertson lbl gov ucbvax csam lbl gov davidr imaging technologies group lawrence berkeley laboratory cyclotron road berkeley svlib fvs svlib windows widget set based the osf open software foundation motif widget set svlib widgets are macro widgets comprising lower level motif widgets such buttons scrollbars menus and drawing areas designed address the reusability visualization routines and each widget the library encapsulation specific visualization technique such colormap manipulation image display and contour plotting targetted run unix workstations supporting osf motif currently only color monitors are supported since svlib collection widgets developed the same spirit the osf motif user interface widget set integrates seamlessly with the motif widgets programmers using svlib widgets see the same interface and design other motif widgets fvs visualization software for computational fluid dynamics cfd simulations fvs designed accept data generated from these simulations and apply various visualization techniques present these data graphically fvs accepts three dimensional multi block data recorded ncsa hdf format iti gov pub svlib scientific visualization fvs these directories contain demo binaries for sun sgi cost for academic and for non academic institutions for each the above items you getting the source for the licence contact miss quek lee hian member technical staff information technology institute national computer board ncb building sicence park drive singapore republic singapore tel fax email leehian iti gov gvlware distribution bob interactive volume renderer for the sgi raz disk based movie player for the sgi icol motif color editor the army high performance computing research center ahpcrc has been developing set tools work with large time dependent and data sets the graphics and visualization lab gvl are using these tools along side standard packages such sgi explorer and the utah raster toolkit render volumes and create digital movies couple the more general purpose programs have been bundled into package called gvlware gvlware currently consisting bob raz and icol now available via ftp the most interesting program probably bob interactive volume renderer for the sgi raz streams raster images from disk sgi screen enabling movies larger than memory played icol color map editor that works with bob and raz source and pre built binaries for irix are included acquire gvlware anonymous ftp machine ftp arc umn edu file pub gvl tar use gvlware mkdir gvl gvl zcat gvl tar tar xvf more readme some bob features motif interface sgi rendering renders cubed data set seconds vgx alpha compositing and maximum value rendering perspective only maximum value rendering personal iris data must brick bytes regularly spaced grid animation subvolumes subsampling stereo some raz features motif interface sgi rendering loads files raw disk partition then streams screen requires empty disk partition set aside script interface available for movie sequences can stream from memory like ncsa ximage some icol features motif interface easy create interpolated color maps between key points rgb hsv and yuv color spaces multiple file formats communicates changes automatically bob and raz has been tested sgi sun dec and cray systems btw bob brick bytes icol interpolated color raz just name please send any comments gvlware ahpcrc umn edu this software collection supported the army research office contract number daalo with the university minnesota army high performance computing research center iap imaging applications platform commercial package for medical and scientific visualization does volume rendering binary surface rendering multiplanar reformating image manipulation cine sequencing intermixes geometry and text with images and provides measurement and coordinate transform abilities can provide hardcopy most medical film printers image database functionality and interconnection most medical mri etc scanners client server based and provides object oriented interface runs most high performance workstations and takes full advantage parallelism where available robust efficient and will submitted for fda approval for use medical applications cost for oem developer for educational developer and run times starting and going down based quantity the developer packages include two days training for two people toronto available from isg technologies airport road mississauga ontario canada mail rod gilchrist rod isgtec com molecular visualization stuff based list from cristy dupont com cristy which asked for systems for displaying molecular dynamics for short flex public domain package written michael pique the scripps research institute jolla flex stored compressed tar archive about perutz scripps edu pub flex displays molecular models and trajectories macmolecule for macintosh searched with archie and the most promising place sumex aim stanford edu info mac app and info mac art for demo display runs sgi machines call terry lybrand lybrand milton washington edu xtalview crystallography package that does visualize molecules and much more uses the xview toolkit call duncan mcree dem scripps edu landman hal physics wayne edu writing own visualization code right now look output specific format easy alter for the subroutine program has hooks into gks your friend has access phigs for pex and fortran bindings would happy share evolving code free charge right now can display supercells atoms easy change and time steps drawing nearest neighbor bonds between defining radii works acceptably fast mhz icsg caesar montana edu did project molecular visualization for master thesis using unix motif which generates simple point and space filling model kgngraf kgngraf part motecc look malena crs pub motecc motecc info txt information about motecc plain ascii format motecc info troff information about motecc troff format motecc form troff motecc order form troff format motecc license troff motecc license agreement troff format motecc info information about motecc postscript format motecc form motecc order form postscript format motecc license motecc license agreement postscript format ditolla itnsg cineca working molecular dynamic too friend mine and have developed program display run dynamically silicon graphics are working improve but doesn work under are using the graphi lib the silicon because they are much faster then when end post the news info about where get with ftp will free software xball written david nedde call daven maxine wpi edu xmol window system program that uses osf motif for the display and analysis molecular model data data from several common file formats can read and written current formats include alchemy chemlab gaussian molsim mopac pdb and msci xyz format which has been designed for simplicity translating and from other formats xmol also allows for conversion between several these formats xmol available ftp msc edu read pub xmol readme for further details insight from biosym technologies inc scarecrow the program has been published molecular graphics the program can analyze and display charmm discover yasp and mumod trajectories the program package contains also software for the generation probe surfaces proton affinity surfaces and molecular orbitals from extended huckel program works silicon graphics machines contact leif laaksonen leif laaksonen csc laaksone csc multi niehs nih gov pub multi multi process molecular modeling suite mindtool runs under sunview and requires fortran compiler and sun cgi libraries mindtool tool provided for the interactive graphic manipulation molecules and atoms currently atoms may input available via anonymous ftp rani chem yale edu directory pub mindtool check with archie for other sites that too far would also suggest looking least sgi applications directory contains many more packages nfotis gis geographical information systems software grass geographic resource analysis support system the army construction engineering research lab cerl popular geographic and remote sensing image processing package many may think grass geographic information system rather than image processing package although reported have significant image processing capabilities feature descriptions use grass because public domain and can obtained through the internet for free grass runs unix and written the source code can obtained through anonymous ftp from the office grass integration you then compile the source code for your machine using scripts provided with grass would recommend grass for someone who already has workstation and limited budget grass not very user friendly compared macintosh software first review overview documentation indicates that looks useful and has some pixel resampling functions not other packages plus good general purpose image enhancement routines fft kelly maurice vexcel corp boulder primary user grass this gentleman has used the grass software and developed multi spectral bands volumetric rendering full color suns and stardents was really effective interface vexcel corp currently has contract map part venus and convert the magellan radar data into contour maps you can call them email care greg vexcel com host configuration requirements you are willing run you could install grass macintosh which has significant image analysis and import capabilities for satellite data grass public domain and can run high end under unix raster based has some image processing capability and can display vector data but analysis must done the raster environment have used grass sun workstation and found easy use best course for data that are well represented raster grid cell form availability cerl office grass integration ogi maintains ftp server moon cecer army mil mail regarding this site should addressed grass ftp admin moon cecer army mil this location will the new canonical source for grass software well bug fixes contributed sources documentation and other files this ftp server also supports dynamic compression and uncompression and tar archiving files feature attraction the server john parks grass tutorial because the manual still beta test stage john requests that people only acquire they are willing review and mail him comments corrections the ogi not currently maintaining this document all correspondence about should directed grassx tang uark edu support listserv mailing lists grassu list amber cecer army mil for grass users application level questions support concerns miscellaneous questions etc send subscribe commands grassu request amber cecer army mil grassp list amber cecer army mil for grass programmers system level questions and tips tricks and techniques design and implementation grass applications send subscribe commands grassp request amber cecer army mil both lists are maintained the office grass integration subset the army corps engineers construction engineering research lab champaign the ogi providing the lists service the community while ogi and cerl employees will participate the lists can make claim content veracity messages that pass through the list you have questions problems comments send mail lists owner amber cecer army mil and human will respond microstation imager intergraph based huntsville alabama sells wide range gis software hardware microstation base graphics package that imager sits top imager basically image processing package with heavy gis remote sensing flavor feature description basic geometry manipulations flip mirror rotate generalized affine rectification affine and order models well projective model warp image vector map another image rgb ihs and ihs rgb conversion principal component analysis classification means and isodata fourier xforms forward filtering and reverse filters high pass low pass edge enhancing median generic complex histogram contrast control layer controller manages images time user can extract single bands from band image create color images combining various individual bands etc the package designed for remote sensing application can handle very large images and there all kinds other software available for gis applications host configuration requirements runs intergraph workstations unix machine similar sun though there were rumors there are always rumors that the software would ported and possibly sun environment pci company called pci inc out richmond hill ontario canada makes array software utilities for processing manipulation and use remote sensing data eight ten different industry standard formats lgsowg bsq landsat and couple others whose titles forget the software available versions for dos unix workstations among them sun and ibm and vms and quite possibly other platforms now use the vms version the pci software consists several classes groups packages utilities grouped function but all operating common pci database disk file the tape package set utility programs which read from the various remote sensing industry tape formats into write those formats out from the pci database file this the only package use know much about other packages can display data from the pci database one another several pci supported third party color displays output numeric bitmap representation image data attached printer epson type dot matrix graphics printer you might more spe cifically interested the mathematical operations package histo gram and fourier analysis equalization user specified operations multiply channel add channel and store channel and god only knows what all else there lot don have and don use these can say much about them you only buy the packages your particular application interest calls for each utility controlled from one eight parameters read from common parameter file which must vms anyway your default directory some utilities will share parameters and use the same parameter for different purpose can get bit confusing setting series operations the standard pci environment contains scripting language very similar ibm basic but which allows you automate the process setting parameters for common complicated lengthy difficult series utility executions vms can also invoke utilities independently from dcl command procedure there also optional programming library which allows you write compiled language programs which can interface with read from write the pci data structures database file parameter file the pci software designed specifically for remote sensing images but requires such level operator expertise that once you reach the level where you can handle images you can figure out ways handle few other things well for instance the tape package offers utility for reading headerless multi band what adobe photoshop the macintosh calls raw data from tape number different interleave orders this turns out ideal for manipulating the graphic arts industry format would probably haven tried handle targa and above all however you have know what you doing you can screw the nth degree and have start over worth noting that the pci database file designed contain not only raster image data but vectors for overlaying map information entered via digitizing table land use and all manner other information observe that remote sensing image tape often contains all manner information about the spectral bands latitude longitude time date etc the original satellite pass all this can into the pci database believe that workstations the built display used vax systems other than workstations pci supports only couple specific third party display systems the name gould deanza seems come mind one personal workarounds was display program which would display directly from pci database file peritek vct bus bit directcolor display subsystem pci software could overkill your case seems designed for the very high end applications users those for whom mac largely doesn suffice although you know the gap getting smaller all the time probably coincidence that pci located canada country which does lot its land resource management via remote sensing believe the canadian government uses pci software for some its work these areas spam spectral analysis manager back jpl developed something called spam spectral analysis manager which got fair amount use the time that was designed for airborne imaging spectrometer imagery byte data pixels across lines bands modified version has since been developed for aviris airborne visual and infrared imaging spectrometer which uses much larger images spam does none these things rectification classification and ihs transformations filtering contrast enhancement overlays actually does limited filtering and contrast enhancement stretching spam aimed spectral identification and clustering the original spam uses sunview display the aviris version may require vicar executive based tae and may also require frame buffer can refer you people you interested pcw requires for display map among the mac gis systems map distributed john wiley clrview clrview dimensional visualization program designed exploit the real time capabilities silicon graphics iris computers this program designed provide core set tools aid the visualization information from cad and gis sources supports the integration many common but disperate data sources such dxf tin dem lattices and arc info coverages among others clrview can obtained from explorer dgp utoronto the directory pub sgi clrview contact rodney hoinkes head design applications centre for landscape research university toronto tel email rodney dgp utoronto end resource listing nick nikolaos fotis national technical univ athens greece home esperidon internet nfotis theseas ntua halandri uucp mcsun ariadne theseas nfotis athens greece fax
comp.graphics	wanted references parallel algorithms element analysis radiosity distributed processing looking for references parallel algorithms octrees adaptive subdivision adaptive meshing finite element meshing analysis radiosity any help will greatly appreciated mail replies dave small dts cis ufl edu
comp.graphics	need help buffering lines areas together asking for help sticky problem involving unreasonably low apparent precision buffering that encountered different pex implementations can find any discussion this problem any resources can lay hands the comp windows pex faq gaskins pexlib programming manual vendors documentation posting this article itself comp graphics and virtually the same article with test program demonstrating the problem comp windows pex the problem hard describe without pictures hence this article longish you can run pexlib programs and are interested encourage you build and run the test program comp windows pex see the effect yourself and play with approach dealing with depends the utility code from the above gaskins book instructions for fetching via anonymous ftp are given the problem solved eliminate minimize stitching artifacts resulting from the use buffering with polylines that are coplanar with filled areas the interpolated values along line will differ slightly due roundoff error from the interpolated values across area even when the endpoints the line are coincident with vertices the area because this tossup whether the buffer will allow the line pixels the area pixels displayed visually the result tends dashed line effect even though the line supposed solid using the pexlib api approach solution use two slightly different pex view mapping transforms two view table entries one for the areas and one for the lines the pex structures immediate mode output must organized that one view table index always effect for areas and the other always effect for lines the result slight shift npc coordinates for the lines attempt bias the tossup situations favor the lines this shift effected moving the front and back clipping planes used the pexlib view table entry for lines just hair backwards smaller vrc coordinates compared their positions the view table entry used for areas this means that when point transformed npc its value will slightly bigger comes from line than comes from area thus accomplishing the desired bias would expect the roundoff errors which cause the problem amount few units most out the entire dynamic range the buffer typically from not bit buffers therefore seems that tiny fraction the range vrc between the front and back clip planes ought suffice reliably fix the stitching but fact experience shows that the shift has much the range empirically worst when the npc component the slope the surface high when appears more less edge the viewer only bits the buffer have any dependable meaning this amount great that one problem replaced another sometimes the polylines show through areas which they are supposed lie behind observed the problem both hewlett packard and digital workstation pex servers approximately the same degree the test program demonstrates the problem mit pexlib implementation this version known compile and run system with pex open questions why does this happen configuring the pex view table wrongly there systematic difference interpolation for lines opposed areas pixel centers versus corners which could corrected for are pex implementors wantonly discarding precision their interpolators something else what about can fix use the view table allow better precision buffered hlhsr there another approach can take remove the stitching artifacts just out luck any help would immensely appreciated dave gorgen internet gorgen ann arbor applicon slb com applicon inc gorgen aaaca sinet slb com ann arbor michigan usa uucp uunet sharkey applga gorgen
comp.graphics	raytriacing and animation now have couple raytracing questions just you know using povray both dos and unix and generating targa files varying size can view these wonderful pictures screen what the best way get them paper would possible take kinko and have them make actual picture paper from was thinking about making small animation bit with different raytraced frames this bad idea any tricks how would get sequence targa files made into animation that could put videotape there cheap way
comp.graphics	need gif iff file format could somebody please email some info either what gif iff file formats are where can get such info thanx rtaraz wpi wpi edu
comp.graphics	archiving gif what the best way archive gif zip them and they only shrink have most compression programs except stacker which heard was good for gif thanx brando please mail don get down this far the news usually
comp.graphics	povray tga rle article ltqp innpa pageboy utexas edu jhpark utexas edu jihun park writes hello have some problem converting tga file generated povray rle file when convert not get any warning message but use xloadimage getx something wrong edited know that need install ppmtorle and tgatoppm but not spend time install them even not want generate rgb from povray and then convert them rle possible rgb rle works but will mess directory with many files and needs more steps finally convert rle file say cat rawtorle rleflip does any body out there have same experience problems well for starters why use rle files you might have specific program that needs them but tend convert straight jpeg format thus meg bit targa file becomes less bit jpeg the latest versions and xloadimage both handle jpeg files and the best way convert jpeg with the djpeg suit even quality you can see the difference the jpeg way smaller than anything else even bit gif later ish craig didn nobody saw you can prove anything craig humphrey stargate actrix gen ccc ccc chumphre comp vuw
comp.graphics	kubota kenai denali specs okay got enough replies about the kubota kenai denali systems that will post summary their capabilities haven actually used one seen one take the specs with grain salt like see independent review one against say sgi indigo extreme something basically the kenai workstations are dec alpha axp based workstations that run osf dec and will likely run windows the future they are binary compatible with digital osf alpha axp implementation denali their graphics subsystem which upgradable the field simply adding transformation engines the two main kenai machines are the imaging and graphics workstation and the imaging and graphics workstation cpu dec alpha axp mhz dec alpha axp mhz chip cache onboard cache word size bit bit memory initial memory future specmark specint specfp graphics transform modules frame buffer modules frame buffer bit bit double buffered double buffered buffer bit bit alpha stencil bit bit stereo support yes yes other both machines will double buffer stereo output per window both have auxiliary video output that ntsc and pal storage internal fixed internal removable max capacity both have turbochannel sec scsi ethernet and fddi application programming interfaces both have libraries for xlib motif mit pexlib dec pexlib dec phigs and okay now the real stuff the kenai stations work with graphics architecture known denali the denali comes three models the and they use decchip superscalar risc processor mhz their capabilities are follows vectors vectors vectors vectors triangles triangles pixel flat shaded connected pixel gouraud shaded connected pixel pixel wide anti aliased connected pixel gouraud shaded buffered strip pixel texture mapped persp point sampled image processing cine loop bit cine loop bit cine loop bit contrast stretching bilinear zoom trilinear interp mvoxels mvoxels lookup table bit trilinear interpolation bit voxels configurations frame buffer modules transform engine mod you can see these are pretty powerful workstations and the best part the pricing would recommend that you call kubota for more information their number sure they send you information you may want some prices low end kenai series tem and fbm dollars kenai series tem and fbm dollars high end kenai series tem and fbm dollars kenai series tem and fbm dollars someone could post relative comparision with indigo extreme something would appreciate hope this helps someone out there brian not affiliated with kubota any way hell thought they made tractors something
comp.graphics	autocad graphics converter could anybody tell exists any program convert autocad graphics another format gif tiff bmp pcx and where get thanks advance cuesta cuesta tidsa madrid spain
comp.graphics	looking for code brake image into sub bands all working project which need brake image into sub bands and then work with them since have never done anything like this don even understand the concept sub bands was wondering there some software out there that would allow this any hints thanks scott violet xepo csd csd uwm edu
comp.graphics	virtual reality for the cheap peter gort trl peter campbell writes ridout bink plk mil brian ridout writes article apr mfltd sts mfltd steve sherwood writes has anyone got multiverse work extn sts mfltd uunet mfocus sts tried compiling several sparcstations with gcc after fixing few bugs missing constant definitions plus couple other things got compile link but after starting client server just get black window sometimes the client core dumps sometimes the server sometimes get broken pipe sometimes just sits there doing nothing although occassionally get the cursor become cross hair dog fight but that sent word the author plus what did fix last week but reply yet peter campbell campbell trl discovered bug the libraries parser parser loadcolour function where was generating segmentation fault appears the colourlist geting corrupted somehow had return random colours instead and everything worked great except for few colour problems know its the only thing wrong the colour table somehow gets couple nulls placed when the name the colours are compared crashes haven found the problem yet maybe someone else can adrian turner university college northern victoria turner ironbark ucnv edu
comp.graphics	looking for graig toontown noticed you post comp graphics and know person with your name was wondering you used live paxton mass have friend that would like say sorry for the inconvience this isn who think
comp.graphics	gif targa article apr fuw edu muchor fuw edu krzysztof muchorowski writes hello subject says all need gif targa converter that dta could make fli them krzysztof dta will make fli from gifs well targas you don need converter also get the latest version dta from wuarchive wustl edu pub msdos uploads
comp.graphics	acm siggraph registration problem zyda nps navy mil michael zyda notes word warning for those you registering for siggraph just received registration form back the mail with the envelope marked return sender moved left address closed box the address used register for siggraph the one printed the registration form acm siggraph box chicago printed the envelope best printing honest but evidently siggraph has skipped town moved ended faxing registration hope that number real michael zyda had the same problem and called the people who handle the box the problem happened some time ago and was caught almost instantly all registrations going that address are now fixed see what trouble you get into when you don procrastinate mike and siggraph has not skipped town preparing the best siggraph conference yet steve cunningham
comp.graphics	hpgl viewer and utilities would like know there any software not who could produce output hpgl file and same kind software who could produce hardcopy postscript and lasetjet thank you gaetan lord voice analyste fax ecole polytechnique montreal box station montreal quebec canada there future time travel
comp.graphics	why does illustrator autotrace poorly had pretty good success autotracing line art with adobe streamline the key controlling excessive points etc take some time and some test conversions using various tolerance settings jim powlesland internet powlesla acs ucalgary academic computing services voice university calgary message calgary alberta canada fax
comp.graphics	cross sobel roberts filters article apr waikato pdenize waikato writes saw imaging program some time ago amiga that had cross sobel and roberts filters for edge detection can anybody direct these algorithms never heard cross filters but roberts prewitt and sobel filters are standard spatial masks for edge detection highpass filtering does good job detecting edges too good reference for all sorts general digital image processing the book digital image processing rafael gonzalez and richard woods addison wesley publishing isbn used this source the above filters and many other things grad project not too dificult the worst part loading the images from tiff gif iff ilbm whatever wayne rigby rigby unr edu
comp.graphics	source code help packages please greetings this general call for information regarding image processing looking for any material related the field and also trying get hands some easy use packages related the field particular source code for general use packages already have several texts the subject but would appreciate more input from people more knowledgable the field than myself not mathematically literate don have degree mathematics any material that suggested would prefer that was not mathematically intensive the best book have found the subject the moment practical digital image processing rhys lewis isbn published ellis horwood likewise trying get fair sample programs that demonstrate image processing techniques far have and khoros for unix dcview for the ibm and various related smatterings code help describe topics like contrasting dithering image enhancement via convolution etc anyone could kindly supply with some public domain software pertinent this area better still they could tell where most likely find the aarnet internet can would prefer source code turbo pascal that includes some image processing code algorithms that can readily alter manipulate for the purposes demonstration would most helpful all the above information will contribute post graduate studies and will liberally used paper and seminar the subject thanks advance vance ashlin diploma advanced computing thinking dangerous subversive mindnumbing and leads you astray ashlin ironbark ucnv edu redgum ucnv edu
comp.graphics	quicktime performance was rumours about article apr waikato ldo waikato lawrence oliveiro waikato university writes path dime ymir umass edu nic umass edu noc near net howland reston ans net usc elroy jpl nasa gov decwrl waikato ldo from ldo waikato lawrence oliveiro waikato university newsgroups comp multimedia comp graphics date apr gmt references mar aragorn unibe apr rchland ibm com organization university waikato hamilton new zealand lines xref dime comp multimedia comp graphics with all the discussion about observed playback speeds with quicktime the effects scaling and thought some more tests first all felt that original speed test was perhaps less than realistic the movie had been using only had frames was version the very first movie created with the compact video compressor decided something little longer would give closer real world results for better for worse pulled out copy space odyssey that had recorded off while back about fifteen minutes into the movie there sequence where the earth shuttle approaching the space station specifically digitized portion about seconds duration zooming the rotating space station figured this would give reasonable amount movement between frames increase the differences between frames digitized only frames per second give total frames captured the raw footage resolution pixels with the spigot card centris quarter size resolution from pal source then imported into premiere and put through the compact video compressor keeping the fps frame rate created two versions the movie one scaled resolution the other resolution used the default quality setting premiere and specified key frame every ten frames then ran the movie through the same raw speed test program used for the results been reporting earlier result playback rate over frames per second that right was getting much higher result than with that first short test movie just for fun copied the movie external hard disk quantum and ran from there this time the playback rate was only about frames per second obviously the internal hard disk also quantum significant contributor the speed playback modified speed test program allow the specification optional scaling factors and tried playing back the movie scaled size this time the playback speed was over fps clearly the poster who observed poor performance scaled playback was seeing quicktime action not try tests with quicktime but don think entirely compatible with centris and system unscaled the playback rate for the movie was over fps the other thing tried was saving versions the movie with preferred playback rates greater than and seeing how well they played from within movieplayer with quicktime normal synchronized playback preferred rate fps didn work too well the playback was very jerky compare this with the raw speed test which achieved fps with ease can believe that quicktime synchronization code would add this much overhead think the slowdown was coming from the mac system task switching preferred rate fps seemed work fine couldn see any evidence stutter fps think could see slight stutter but with four key frames every second was hard tell guess could try recreating the movies with longer interval between the key frames make the stutter more noticeable course this will also improve the compression slightly which should speed the playback performance even more lawrence oliveiro fone computer services dept fax university waikato electric mail ldo waikato hamilton new zealand gmt afraid missed the start this thread but there are three factors that can significantly affect quicktime playback speed that you may want take into account playback bit depth things are fastest when you play movie back the bit depth was compressed for this usually bit but other depths are course possible type scaling optimized for double size scaling other scaling factors hit peformance much harder playback window position movieplayer limits your window placement choices advantagous pixel boundaries default not sure about premiere any combination those can radically alter playback performance image size course another biggie giving the movie player lots ram can also make real difference forgive these were mentioned earlier the thread peter lee peter lee software conductor specular international inc lee umass edu beauty bits deep plus eight bits alpha channel
comp.graphics	help need bits viewer article seti inria deniaud cartoon inria gilles deniaud writes looking for program which able display bits images are using sun sparc equipped with parallax graphics board running xli xloadimage imagemagick export lcs mit edu contrib graeme gill
comp.graphics	povray tga rle article ltqp innpa pageboy utexas edu jhpark utexas edu jihun park writes hello have some problem converting tga file generated povray rle file when convert not get any warning message but use xloadimage getx something wrong error messages are targatorle rle data tga xloadimage rle rle bit rle image with map will dither bits with gamma dithering image done building ximage done xloadimage error badvalue integer parameter out range for operation xloadimage error badwindow invalid window parameter this happens when your server has run out memory you need more memory you need quit any neccessary running clients graeme gill
comp.graphics	povray tga rle rkkb gec james comp vuw craig humphrey comp vuw craig andrew humphrey writes article ltqp innpa pageboy utexas edu jhpark utexas edu jihun park writes hello have some problem converting tga file generated povray rle file when convert not get any warning message but use xloadimage getx something wrong edited know that need install ppmtorle and tgatoppm but not spend time install them even not want generate rgb from povray and then convert them rle possible rgb rle works but will mess directory with many files and needs more steps finally convert rle file say cat rawtorle rleflip does any body out there have same experience problems well for starters why use rle files exactly didn want mess with tga rle wrote the following script all you need the very standard set pbm utilities this script pov jpg converter just run like this pov jpg fred pov you will need modify the path the script reflect where you put povray and its include files you have problem with disk space you can use named pipes instead temporary files hope you find useful bin then echo usage width height sourcefile pov other options exit width height datafile shift basedatafile echo datafile sed pov thedatafile basename datafile basedatafile basename datafile pov dirdatafile dirname datafile dirdatafile afs rnd sas com sherman pov povsrc build povray afs rnd sas com sherman pov povscn include tmp data width height thedatafile echo rawtopgm width height tmp data grn tmp green rawtopgm width height tmp data red tmp red rawtopgm width height tmp data blu tmp blue rgb toppm tmp red tmp green tmp blue cjpeg basedatafile jpg tmp red tmp green tmp blue tmp data grn tmp data red tmp data blu echo wrote output basedatafile jpg chris sherman sherman unx sas com
comp.graphics	adobe photoshop mailing list done bit looking and havn been able come with mailing list newsgroup for users adobe photoshop assuming just not missed ahead and see there enough interest start mailing list and alt newsgroup drop note you might interested subscribing thanks bob wier not the grateful dead insert usual disclaimers here bob wier east texas state commerce texas historic image processing project wier merlin etsu edu watch for address change
comp.graphics	morphing article news duke edu seth north acpub duke edu seth wandersman writes keywords looking for some morphing programs for dec looked for program called dmorph using archie but could not find found progrmam call morpho but only did grayscale images does anyone know where should look try searching for dmorf think located wuarchive wustl edu mirror directory used before was pretty good pete wilmshurst email wilmshurst reg triumf
comp.graphics	where did all the rych festival hawkes noticed that you only save model with all your mapping planes positioned carefully file that when you reload after restarting they are given default position and orientation but you save prj file their positions orientation are preserved does anyone know why this information not stored the file nothing this because the prj project format saves all your settings right down the last render file name like able read the texture rule information does anyone have the format for the prj file sorry don have anything that the cel format ell deluxe stupid line noise
comp.graphics	parametric variational design here now some initial references best regards walter inproceedings keirouz author walid keirouz and jahir pabon and robert young title integrating parametric geometry features and variational modeling for conceptual design booktitle international conference design theory and methodology year editor rinderle pages organization american society mechanical engineers asme optpublisher optaddress optmonth note proceedings inproceedings yamaguchi kimura author yasushi yamaguchi and fumihiko kimura title constraint modeling system for variational geometry booktitle geometric modeling for product engineering year editor michael wozny and turner and preiss pages organization ifip publisher elsevier science publishers north holland amsterdam the netherlands optaddress optmonth note selected and expanded papers form the ifip nsf working conference geometric modeling rensselaerville september inproceedings chung author jack chung and joseph klahs and robert cook and thijs sluiter title implementation issues variational geometry and constraint management booktitle third international conference cad cam robotics and factories the future cars and fof year opteditor optpages optorganization optpublisher address detroit michigan usa month august note proceedings probably springer verlag berlin heidelberg article kimura author fumihiko kimura and hiromasa suzuki and toshio sata title variational product design constraint propagation and satisfaction product modelling journal annals the cirp year volume number pages optmonth note probably international institution for production engineering research article kimura author kimura and suzuki and ando and sato and kinosada title variational geometry based logical constraints and its applications product modelling journal annals the cirp year volume number pages inproceedings chung schussel author jack chung and martin schussel title comparison variational and parametric design booktitle autofact year opteditor pages optorganization optpublisher address detroit michigan usa month october november note conference proceedings article pabon author jahir pabon and robert young and walid keirouz title integrating parametric geometry features and variational modeling for conceptual design journal international journal systems automation research and applications sara year volume optnumber pages optmonth optnote article kondo author koichi kondo title pigmod parametric and interactive geometric modeller for mechanical design journal cad computer aided design year volume number pages month december note butterworth heinemann ltd inproceedings zalik author borut alik and nikola guid and aleksander vesel title parametric design using constraint description graph booktitle cad neue konzepte zur realisierung anwendungsorientierter cad systeme year editor frank lothar krause and detlev ruland and helmut jansen pages optorganization publisher informatik aktuell springer verlag berlin heidelberg optaddress month mai note fachtagung berlin inproceedings murtagh shimura author niall murtagh and masamichi shimura title parametric engineering design using constraint based reasoning booktitle aaai eighth national conference artificial intelligence year opteditor pages organization american association for artificial intelligence publisher proceedings volume one aaai press menlo park address boston month july august optnote
comp.graphics	need gif iff file format article rkjm bigboote wpi edu rtaraz bigwpi wpi edu ramin taraz writes could somebody please email some info either what gif iff file formats are where can get such info well gif stands for graphics interchange format and was put forth compuserve back was create format that could read and displayed any system gif limited bit color but has built compression scheme lzw iff not really graphics format but rather standard way package images sounds animations text whatever into one file iff was created electronic arts believe could wrong for the amiga was quickly adopted pretty much the standard file format for the amiga the most common image format for the iff package ilbm interleaved bitmap but many others exist this format supports bit color images information both these and many more are available via anonymous ftp zamenhof rice edu the directory pub graphics formats taken from the faq for this news group wayne rigby rigby unr edu
comp.graphics	pov where sorry this faq but where can get bit version pov ray any help would greatly appreciated need the version since turbo pascal won let run bit program from within program any info this would also great help thanks byron bkidd esk compserv utas edu kidd cam compserv utas edu byron kidd mail computing services
comp.graphics	geosphere image article alt graphics newsgroups alt graphics path news edu moliere rmalayte from rmalayte moliere helios edu ryan malayter subject geosphere images via ftp message apr news edu sender news news edu usenet news system organization university notre dame notre dame date mon apr gmt does anyone know digitized version the geosphere image available via ftp for those you who don know composite photograph the entire earth with cloudcover removed just think really cool was created with government funds and sattelites research project would assume the public domain thanks for any info ryan college men get smashed and break something college women get smashed and get broken robin wilson president ryan malayter chico state university stanford hall notre dame dept physics comp sci malayter edu
comp.graphics	help colour display restriction limitation netters doing project which about image analysis firstly have find out any restrictions limitations the colour display various kind workstations they are decstation amiga apollo secondly read from some graphic texts that image displayed bites please point out got wrong but the images which will deal with are displayed bites the software they are using currently will there any problems display them under windows the future because are thinking implement the gui windows for our project there any person here can help solve the problem query above give some advice suggestion where can find them out please send mail there are any thanks advance yours christine chan address golum riv csu edu
comp.graphics	tiff anything article apr yang earlham edu joshuaf yang earlham edu writes are there any tiff anything programs out there for the ibm our scanner works into tiff and can view cshow but all other programs read errors are there any basic tiff jpeg gif pcx bmp etc try winjpeg oak oakland edu pub msdos windows winjp zip has more tiff support than graphics workshop also converts all the above formats ken
comp.graphics	widget wish list what like see the more generic dimensional widget set realize that there wouldn whole shitload people who want more than but why stop all need widget with viewports showing different slices stuff alter pat pat ritcsh csh rit edu paf ritvax rit edu paflecke spectrum xerox com all objects are macroscopic invisible non physical otherwise non heisenbergish fuck the cat
comp.graphics	rgb hls hsv conversion routines wanted looking for rgb cube hls double hexcone hsv cylinder conversion routines have rgb hsv but miss the hls rgb hsv please mail directly not get this newsgroup site any and all help wil greatly appreciated gert gert bultman bultman dgw rws phone snail rijkswaterstaat dienst getijdewateren afd aoct mail postbus the hague the netherlands please mark all personal mail persoonlijk
comp.graphics	where did all the texture rules eric vitiello tfd coplex com eric vitiello writes rych festival hawkes noticed that you only save model with all your mapping planes positioned carefully file that when you reload after restarting they are given default position and orientation but you save prj file their positions orientation are preserved does anyone know why this information not stored the file nothing this because the prj project format saves all your settings right down the last render file name like able read the texture rule information does anyone have the format for the prj file sorry don have anything that the cel format well dived feet first and reverse engineered the prj file much needed extracted the mapping icon information which when dawned that studio useless for needs need mapping icon per applied texture want use special purpose graphics computer for rendering the models and requires texture rule plane specified space position orientation the mapping rule since only one mapping icon used apply textures all objects faces renders pun intended totally unsuitable for needs anyone got contact for alias upfront any other good modeller for must able specify texture rules one per texture and this must saved file which can read haven found any info alias the copy the faq that have rych
comp.graphics	convert plot ascii file looking for software that reads plot pcx other format and converts into coordinate
comp.graphics	best ftp viewer please could someone please tell the best ftp able viewer available for msdos running mhz with svga monitor need look gifs mainly and would advantageous ran under windows thanks
comp.graphics	rgb hvs and back have little question need convert rgb coded red green blue colors into hvs coded hue value saturnation colors does anyone know which formulas use thanks hartog remcoha solist htsa aha
comp.graphics	wanted bit viewer article seti inria deniaud cartoon inria gilles deniaud writes thanks the people who helped with the problem displaying bit images all the viewers like xli xloadimage and display are converting the bit images bit before display them the screen what really want viewer with make use the bit frame screen buffer our case the parallax one try imagemagick cannot test but one told does bit anyway are you sure your xserver supports bit truecolor visuals check with xdpyinfo brain inside andre beck abpsoft mehl andre beck irs inf dresden
comp.graphics	comp graphics research have not seen articles comp graphics research for long time does work anymore have seen many conference related postings comp graphics and hard believe that people have not tried post them research somebody has not got his article comp graphics research then write post here juhana kouhia
comp.graphics	polaroid palette system does anyone have any information the polaroid palette system appears gadget for transfering graphics images film does anyone have any detail about like the maximum supported resolution types video input what did polaroid market them fletch all irregularities will handled the forces controlling each dimension trans uranic heavy elements may not used where there life medium atomic weights are available gold lead copper jet diamond radium sapphire silver and steel sapphire and steel have been assigned
comp.graphics	tiff anything there program called graphic workshop you can ftp from wuarchive the file the msdos graphics directory and called grfwk zip this program should everthing you need tmc tmc spartan brocku could you more specific need that file too but couldn find amongst all the directories wuarchive page nixsp ccsvax sfasu edu
comp.graphics	monthly lightwave mailing list faq lightwave mail list what lightwave lightwave part suite programs that come bundled with device called the toaster from newtek inc that operates amiga platform the lightwave software lightwave lightwave and lightwave modeler allows and artist create three dimensional photo realistic images for variety purposes why are doing this this mailing list for those interested the lightwave software how operates and ideas how obtain the best quality images available them the list for those who own the toaster and lightwave well those just interested what can done with the package hope share information tips procedures and bond group what are the rules since lightwave modeler are just part the newtek video toaster software sure will discuss few items related the operation the toaster however will strive keep the subject revolving specifically around the software related tools and products you not have own toaster join this list how join become member the lightwave mailing list you must send mail message the address lightwave request bobsbox rent com the body the message enter subscribe lightwave your name your site domain just ask signed and will sign you the list this point time the process manual but hope get automated script based system place soon there shouldn too much delay joining expect welcome message within days after you send your request then expect the mail start flowing how post the list contributing the list simple just mail your articles the following address lightwave bobsbox rent com your article will processed the system and distributed all others joined the list your articles will also sent you you know that your article has made the list however those addresses that are either good longer active will bounce back you you post article and another members address longer valid your original article will returned you this doesn mean hasn been posted the list fact just the opposite true means that your article was posted and that couldn sent one more the members the list due bad address note hope have fix for this behavior soon how quit the list simply mail request removed from the list the same address you used sign lightwave request bobsbox rent com the body the message enter unsubscribe lightwave your name your site domain will remove your name from the list members please you join the list and your account going closed you will not able receive mail for while send request removed from the list you are just going lose access for short while still send request for suspension your membership and will suspend forwarding the articles you what about old articles currently archiving all the articles posted the list the originating site bobsbox however can not continue this due lack disk space what need volunteer that will maintain compendium articles sent the list they can compress and store them archives their system they can then periodically post index the contents the compendium and any other information that relates there are volunteers then maybe someone can donate large scsi hard drive for archival purposes grin have setup mail based file server that anyone interested the list can obtain information well the entire archive past articles the membership listing and other information pertaining the lightwave mailing list for information this service please send mail message fileserver bobsbox rent com the first command the server must help user name passwd use help request current copy the helpfile use user name passwd connect the service use get short listing all available commands now what well sit back and enjoy the pouring out information you have something offer please feel free contribute that information the list every little bit helps questions are welcomed makes some feel important when can answer them grin you have any questions comments regarding the list please contact the address lightwave admin bobsbox rent com cheers bob lindabury
comp.graphics	your one stop graphics shop rent com better than sharp stick the eye andy meyer are pleased announce that have just upgraded our system new hayes ultra bis bis modem that will allow connections from bps bps featuring graphics specific system for those you interested such things graphics image processing animation clip art and the latest public domain graphics programs graphics specific mailing lists such imagine dctv and lightwave mailing lists aliased easy read forums which you can join and read many more come free usenet access and free netmail sites all over the world the ability contact software hardware developers right their mainframes just sending them netmail from the graphics bbs not mention your kids college your parents from college with our quick connections and reliable links you can have your mail sent around the world matter minutes unique conference bulletin section the abilty join and keep track only the conferences that you enjoy the ability read files from your own personal file area for use messages also with proper access you can create your own conference and moderate newsfeeds from usenet that include topics such graphics mac amiga ibm science erotica ham radio star trek scuba diving programmers forums game designers forums and cyberspace forums the most sophisticated but easy learn and use mail system ever created for you can easily read your mail delete move your personal directory for storage and reply you can attach files your mail and send another member smart sendmail feature ensures accurate addressing netmail ability send mail and messages arpanet usenet internet bitnet and any the networks that interface with them around the world such fidonet peoplenet and the uucp network university and research facility systems file library containing downloads for most popular computers featuring easy learn and use system the library features master directory listing newscan and search capabilities well complete archived file listings the file library supports most popular transfer protocols such modem well advance protocols such link and modem the file library also doubles file server for users from other sites all around the world complete control over your environment you select whether you want hot key control menus more prompting etc you can define your cancel key and choose your terminal emulation you can also edit your personal login script what you want online games global war jet combat simulator etc new games added online manual and extensive help facilities complete tracking online usage time megabytes storage the graphics bbs currently runs ibm mhz with meg ram meg ide drive call the graphics bbs baud hours day everyday system administator bob lindabury bobl graphics rent com
comp.graphics	dxf pcx gif tif tga murashiea mail beckman com murashiea mail beckman com murashie writes does anyone know program for the that will take autocad dxf format files and convert them raster format like pcx gif etc thanks advance also interested such program but most all like know wich program able convert gif pcx dxf when have this program can scan pictures and frase something like that them this will beyond the limit roderick
comp.graphics	ntsc data rgb for video capture does anyone know how decode the color information ntsc signal need convert this data rgb for video capture utility writing for use with ibm motion video adapter card need know the how the and signals work the color process thanks advance for any information algorythms etc later hammonck net
comp.graphics	best ftp viewer please situnaya ibm bham wrote could someone please tell the best ftp able viewer available for msdos running mhz with svga monitor need look gifs mainly and would advantageous ran under windows thanks ftp wuarchive wustl edu change into mirrors msdos graphics get grfwk zip this the dos version graphic workshop there windows version which you could probably find the mirrors msdos windows directory but don know what the file name tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.graphics	turning photographic images into thermal print and negatives jennifer lynn urso andrew cmu edu wrote well have lots experience with scanning images and altering them for changing them back into negatives that really possible stuff deleted jennifer urso the bitter woman utter blahness but cheerful undertones use aldus photostyler the and can turn colour black and white image into negative turn negative into colour black and white image don know how does but works well test scanned negative and used aldus create positive looked better than the print that the film developers gave tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.graphics	interesting conversion problem have very large feet file macintosh canvas something which need import into autocad the least disk space intensive way possible eps big problem since took meg encode one page the document the file entirely lines and words have access networked macs and ftp can anyone suggest how this might accomplished email replies you would don read this group much thanks advance daniel alt case western reserve university cleveland help don have ulcers carrier can see you don pretend don like spreading rumors but what else can you with them there don practice what preach because not the kind person preach
comp.graphics	human head modeling software article wbp taurus nps navy mil adaptive nps navy mil zyda res acct writes there interested facial animation and want implement some program about this area but don have any information for the face looking for some images face try getting the cyberware demo via ftp which contains images the face what the copyright status this data are there restrictions regarding the uses they can put kaveh kaveh kardan kardank ere umontreal
comp.graphics	looking for hot mac anim software interested finding animation programs for the mac especially interested any programs that don exist port and are good that they would make buy mac any such exist thanks advance
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance silly bqs skates gsfc nasa gov xrcjd mudpuppy gsfc nasa gov charles divine writes article geraldo utexas edu mark cartwright markc emx utexas edu writes course the question has not yet been discovered but the question was later revealed what the base system course you read the last couple books the series closely well and least there are least two points which the real question implied conversations proceed much like zaphod what the ultimate question wonder arthur not paying much attention zaphod but needing random seed for the infinite improbability drive think number any number actually may marvin who uses this phrase few times well and everytime arranged such that think number any number could answer someone question about the question kind like very mystifying not even pick number tell number just think one kevin martin sigma rahul net use the flipper
comp.graphics	geosphere image article apr news edu rmalayte grumpy helios edu ryan malayter writes does anyone know digitized version the geosphere image available via ftp for those you who don know composite photograph the entire earth with cloudcover removed just think really cool was created with government funds and sattelites research project would assume the public domain thanks for any info ryan have copy the earth from space wall that purchased from space shots inc printed the poster the image was created tom van sant and the geosphere project the image copyrighted doubt that you find legally the public domain part the proceeds from the sale the image the geosphere project environmental education thing and the cost nominal crack and buy one also don think always safe assume that just because the government funded project any products will provided for free many government agencies nasa noaa and some private groups national geographic provided assistance the geosphere project this collaboration seems mostly oriented educating the public rather than pure research thomas trusk dept cellular biology anatomy email ttrusk its mcw edu medical college wisconsin milwaukee disclaimer have affiliation with any the above mentioned groups this just opinion not flame advertisement where who turned off the lights what that funny noise feel strange aaauuugggghhhhh
comp.graphics	donwloaded bin file from unix machine now what niko iastate edu nikolaus schuessler writes article matess gsusgi gsu edu matess gsusgi gsu edu eliza strickler writes just donwloaded bin file from unix machine which supposed converted mac format does anyone know what need this file get into any dos mac unix readable format someone mentioned fetch the unix machine this correct could someone explain the bin format little this almost certainly macbinary file which encoded version mac file the resource fork and data fork get preserved you need program that converts this regular file this macbinary file you may have downloaded text mode and probably corrupt you did you using ftp transfer any point make sure you type binary first you can open the file with text editor and find this file must converted with bin the top binhex file and can decoded with binhex among other programs opened the file with text editor and looks like vnetwork storyboardpictpict bim have already tried binhex which does not seem work any other ideas niko schuessler project vincent systems manager email niko iastate edu iowa state university computation center voice ames snail durham elizabeth strickler matess gsusgi gsu edu
comp.graphics	hpgl viewer and utilities article apr music mus polymtl gaetan lord ecole polytechnique montreal music mus polymtl writes would like know there any software not who could produce output hpgl file and same kind software who could produce hardcopy postscript and lasetjet try export lcs mit edu think that there viewer there called xviewgl check the readme contrib bill woodward wpwood austin ibm com try this first aix software support billw aixwiz austin ibm com graphics group the terror that flaps the night
comp.graphics	gif targa hello subject says all need gif targa converter that dta could make fli them krzysztof
comp.graphics	viewing jpeg files apr ucbeh san edu lwilson ucbeh san edu writes can view jpeg files without special hardware lucy wilson access services librarian college engineering university cincinnati yup most jpeg viewers seem require specific video drivers since they support only specific video cards some have the standard ibm bios video support for the vga colour mode but they leave out the other cards such the hercules monochrome card which the way can give very good picture quality your dithering works right can remember the name jpeg viewer since usually convert jpeg gif before viewing them but some require vesa driver for the video cards you don need any special hardware view jpeg except perhaps for vga card and maybe processor most people these days program for computers and neglect the rest the processors have clone nec processor and hercules card have had write some programs that they will view gif and animations for the vga and other colour graphics boards monochrome hercules card use floyd steinberg dithers and have found that one does something neat with the colour palette the resulting dithered image gives much greater detail than normally would when viewed other monochrome systems compushow has dithering but does the standard thing with the image palette before dithering way gives brighter more detailed image anyway enough rambling the wrong direction the final point far know you don need extra hardware view jpeg other than the vga and perhaps better have day gerry
comp.graphics	corel draw harvard draw wife wants publish newsletter she artist she intends use comercial clipart and customise bit drawing circle box around etc have mspublisher for manipulating text but not suitable for doing much with graphics she needs more specialised tool right now she looking corel draw and harvard draw there seem more books the stores corel than harvard she inclined with corel the basis popularity can anyone give informed opinion which package would more suitable there even better alternative available this faq please withhold the flames and just send the location the faq document thanks three use clip art from harvard draw whatever for commercial purposes have dpi laser jet printer what would good scanner for reading paper clipart how about someone starting newsgroup desktop publishing one doesn exist
comp.graphics	real time visualization hello interested hear from people working the field visual simulation driving simulation flight simulation etc would very pleased see what going the field research and industrial development for those you interested well there workshop preferedly held german situated wuppertal november specially related the above topic the title sichtsysteme visualisierung der simulationstechnik complete details are available please contact moeller rmoe welfag elektro uni wuppertal
comp.graphics	geosphere image rmalayte grumpy helios edu ryan malayter writes article alt graphics newsgroups alt graphics path news edu moliere rmalayte from rmalayte moliere helios edu ryan malayter subject geosphere images via ftp message apr news edu sender news news edu usenet news system organization university notre dame notre dame date mon apr gmt does anyone know digitized version the geosphere image available via ftp for those you who don know composite photograph the entire earth with cloudcover removed just think really cool was created with government funds and sattelites research project would assume the public domain this image copyrighted early another news group was being used texture map planet orbiting simulation that program was being freely distributed but the texture map picture for the earth had pulled because copyright infringement issues michael prevost sterling software moffett field prevost eos arc nasa gov
comp.graphics	kubota kenai denali specs article rkntjinnd names nerdc ufl edu lioness maple circa ufl edu writes okay got enough replies about the kubota kenai denali systems that will post summary their capabilities graphics transform modules frame buffer modules frame buffer bit bit double buffered double buffered buffer bit bit alpha stencil bit bit does this mean they can either alpha stenciling but not both simultaneously stereo support yes yes other both machines will double buffer stereo output per window both have auxiliary video output that ntsc and pal same question again does this mean they can either double buffering stereo but not both simultaneously paul pmartz dsd com evans sutherland
comp.graphics	help need bits viewer article apr nessie mcc lilley cgu mcc chris lilley writes article seti inria deniaud cartoon inria gilles deniaud writes looking for program which able display bits images are using sun sparc equipped with parallax graphics board running utah raster toolkit using getx convert your sun raster files presumably ppm with the pbm toolkit then convert ppm utah rle format with ppmtorle which provided the toolkit just use the urt tool rastorle seem remember that xloadimage can bit servers too yes both and the newer xli can wes barris minnesota supercomputer center inc email wes msc edu
comp.graphics	wanted bit viewer article seti inria deniaud cartoon inria gilles deniaud writes hello thanks the people who helped with the problem displaying bit images all the viewers like xli xloadimage and display are converting the bit images bit before display them the screen what really want viewer with make use the bit frame screen buffer our case the parallax one both xli and xloadimage will display bit color bit visual available check the output xdpyinfo see one wes barris minnesota supercomputer center inc email wes msc edu
comp.graphics	cga help wanted there looking for help rez cga modes hey know sounds crazy but the moment got card manual says does something like colour and colour the card has memory could anyone give some help how implement these modes assembly language fine any other usefull tips the cga regs will also help thanx advance frans email leander
comp.graphics	what has happened dkb trearn hello been the dkbtrace povray mailing list out trearn bitnet for some time now but when tried post the other day the listserv told that the list doesn exist got global list groups from the listserv and nothing grepped every string could think frank ville saari andre beck anyone else who regular dkb can tell what going please regards david drum mizzou missouri edu
comp.graphics	tangent vectors kochanek bartels splines working system which uses given set key frame positions control imaginary camera movement using kochanek bartels splines described the siggraph proceedings create variable number inbetweens between the key frames want the inbetweens given the form where the last three argumentsa are the and component the viewing direction vector the camera when positioned the method presented kochanek and bartels only deals with the positions the inbetween view points generated tried set the viewing direction view point equal the chord between the two adjacent view points which general are not key frames but this causes sligt discontinuity the viewing direction vector the key frame positions although the spatial movement seems work fine and quite certain think that not simply made implementation error now wonder anyone out there has used this spline form for similar purposes and how they decided the viewing vectors appreciate replies emailed iharkest lise unit anyone else interested the answer will sent summary the replies they contact iharkest lise unit comp nth norwegian institute technology some people play hard get play hard want ford fairlane
comp.graphics	need help buffering lines areas together david gorgen writes asking for help sticky problem involving unreasonably low apparent precision buffering that encountered different pex implementations can find any discussion this problem any resources can lay hands the comp windows pex faq gaskins pexlib programming manual vendors documentation the problem solved eliminate minimize stitching artifacts resulting from the use buffering with polylines that are coplanar with filled areas the interpolated values along line will differ slightly due roundoff error from the interpolated values across area even when the endpoints the line are coincident with vertices the area because this tossup whether the buffer will allow the line pixels the area pixels displayed visually the result tends dashed line effect even though the line supposed solid using the pexlib api approach solution use two slightly different pex view mapping transforms two view table entries one for the areas and one for the lines the pex structures immediate mode output must organized that one view table index always effect for areas and the other always effect for lines the result slight shift npc coordinates for the lines attempt bias the tossup situations favor the lines this shift effected moving the front and back clipping planes used the pexlib view table entry for lines just hair backwards smaller vrc coordinates compared their positions the view table entry used for areas this means that when point transformed npc its value will slightly bigger comes from line than comes from area thus accomplishing the desired bias would expect the roundoff errors which cause the problem amount few units most out the entire dynamic range the buffer typically from not bit buffers therefore seems that tiny fraction the range vrc between the front and back clip planes ought suffice reliably fix the stitching but fact experience shows that the shift has much the range empirically worst when the npc component the slope the surface high when appears more less edge the viewer only bits the buffer have any dependable meaning this amount great that one problem replaced another sometimes the polylines show through areas which they are supposed lie behind observed the problem both hewlett packard and digital workstation pex servers approximately the same degree the test program demonstrates the problem mit pexlib implementation this version known compile and run system with pex open questions why does this happen configuring the pex view table wrongly there systematic difference interpolation for lines opposed areas pixel centers versus corners which could corrected for are pex implementors wantonly discarding precision their interpolators something else what about can fix use the view table allow better precision buffered hlhsr there another approach can take remove the stitching artifacts just out luck here ibm have the same problem with our workstations was also shocked when first realized that you have offset lines from fills about bits assuming bit buffer this seems huge but only the dynamic range those terms doesn seem bad what happening that the interpolation not totally linear due mainly roundoff believe the polygon not planar but more like ruffles potato chip ditto with lines when you start end different values the ridges are out phase resulting the stitch effect you have the same problem you try draw polygon right top another but with different vertices you will likely see smeared effect where they overlap example try polygon polygon your implementation correct fact similar trick when rendering primitives that have lines and polygons such nurbs surfaces with isoparametric lines without the trick the lines appear stitched you say when the application draws lines polygons independently the system does not have the smarts automatically the shifting the application must this what you have discovered and are doing bravo note ibm ers the information given here has been previously disclosed through proper channels not giving away any new unpublished info mark einkauf einkauf austin ibm com ibm advanced workstations and systems graphics systems austin views and opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those ibm corp
comp.graphics	virtual sound looking for algorithms articles virtual sound what want the following from fast source cdrom several sound sources are read each having own defined position and other attributes direction etc given the listeners position and direction the sum sound played back each the listeners earphones will function this position and direction this means that some simulation the ears coloring sound relative incoming direction have done for each sound source think this possible with lookup table impulse responses for several angles relative each ear and interpolate impulse function from this for given angle this impulse function could then convoluted with the sound from the source this impulse function must changed every time some sound source changes position the listener changes orientation additionally some reflection diffusion and absorbtion due the environment wich defined could simulated but this requires some sort sound propagandation simulation kinda like some radiosity algorithm have someone done this and written articles implementing such system please post mail any answers comments torgeir veimo studying the university bergen gona wave freak flag high jimi hendrix and would okay any other day the police
comp.graphics	turning photographic images into thermal print and negatives jennifer lynn urso andrew cmu edu writes also anyone else doing what planning would happy hear from you with any advice you might provide the computer system you use and any peripherals software seemed the quadra would best bet modify photographic images planning buying quadra with megs ram meg hard drive dpi scanner sony monitor and meg cartridge drive and perhaps rom new computers and any advice would great well have lots experience with scanning images and altering them for changing them back into negatives that really possible scanning and altering big deal don know what types features you have your version photoshop but the one use which incidentally quadra has gallery effects and all types other neato stuff just wondering why you would want put your images back into negatives because once you print the image out that your print you know what exactly your aim all this like are you doing this just for fun for business gain more computer knowledge for project you working otherwise guess don know helping not posting info scanning and stuff cool seeya jennifer urso the bitter woman utter blahness but cheerful undertones for business and the end product has photograph take damaged black and whites usually old some very and repair them hand present would like this using computer just trying find vendor who can convert computer stored images negatives thermal print the customer will want his her copy much possible like brand new original photgraph david thanks all you who have sent information was very helpful learning about computers combined with photography anyone else has any information would grateful
comp.graphics	kubota kenai denali specs article apr dsd com pmartz dsd com paul martz writes does this mean they can either alpha stenciling but not both simultaneously don know the answer the this one although with bits would assume that was one the other stereo support yes yes other both machines will double buffer stereo output per window both have auxiliary video output that ntsc and pal same question again does this mean they can either double buffering stereo but not both simultaneously according the literature will quadruple buffering that you can have double buffered stereo output brian
comp.graphics	gif wpg tiff converter looking for available program that would convert gif files other formats usable dos based software such wordperfect presentations which will handle wpg and tiff among others any suggestions would appreciated thank you very much for your time and help steve alford novavax nova edu steve alford nova university college avenue lauderdale uucp gatech uflorida ucf novavax alford internet alford novavax nova edu
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance silly the number legs centipede now you know richard kirk image processing group crosfield electronics ltd rak crosfield hemel hempstead herts
comp.graphics	genoa windowsvga true color board for immediate release editorial contact single source marketing myra manahan genoa systems joseph brunoli neil roehm technical genoa presents high performance video graphics accelerator san jose calif usa genoa systems corporation announces windowsvga true color bit graphics accelerator card that delivers million colors speeds faster than the competition plus offers full range resolutions high refresh rates well unique proprietary performance features the card available both bit isa bus and bit vesa local bus versions models and with dram board the windowsvga card offers maximum resolution and supports refresh rate and resolution non interlaced both models provide performance many times greater than standard svga boards yet conform all current video standards windowsvga features genoa flickerfree technology which eliminates screen flash and flicker make viewing much more comfortable the cards also come with safescan utility developed genoa eliminate the black border around the screen and thereby provide percent screen use for overscanning monitors windowsvga model takes full advantage the speed offered the new vesa local bus technology most bus cards will only handle data transfers mhz but the will transfer data the full speed the cpu mhz genoa also offering this card the turbobahn combination packaged with their turboexpress motherboard built around the cirrus logic gui accelerator windowsvga offers the user exceptional price performance value genoa advanced proprietary drivers act turbocharge the chip thereby providing affordable accelerator card with power and performance that surpass many the more highly priced chip cards the genoa user will enjoy optimal speed and reliability for such programs windows autocad autoshade studio orcad and more driver updates and product bulletins are available genoa bbs genoa systems manufactures and markets extensive line graphics adapters motherboards audio and multimedia cards for ibm compatible personal computers all products come with two year limited warranty parts and labor genoa products are currently distributed worldwide through authorized distributors resellers vars and systems integrators for more information contact joe brunoli marketing manager genoa systems trimble road san jose calif tel fax stefan hartmann stefanh rahul net
comp.graphics	looking for patches better support tiff output recently have found tiff manipulation packages which not recognize tiff files output this due missing xresolution and yresolution tag which apparently required least believed required for valid tiff have checked both and and neither these indeed copy these tags has anyone out there hacked the fixes for support these tags have been told that could find some code tiff tools tiffcp but that directory one many the tiff group not distributed with hope obtain the original tiff src and look but would prefer find code already known work larry virden inet lvirden cas org personal falls place reynoldsburg
comp.graphics	paint program neopaint help looking for shareware graphics package called neopaint saw shareware catalog and was hoping that could ftp from the net but have been unable locate have tried archie and have gone through the entire comp graphics newsgroup looking for some reference and have found none have also looked through the faq and also reference the program called neopaint and anyone has heard knows where can get would appreciate suggestions for other based shareware paint programs would also appreciated email your responses much thanks sean
comp.graphics	sigkids research showcase call was brought attention that there was oversight the sigkids research showcase call for participation and entry form please note that the sigkids research showcase part siggraph august anaheim california thank you diane schwartz sigkids committee member institute for the learning sciences maple avenue suite evanston illinois schwartz ils nwu edu
comp.graphics	widget wish list very interested hearing from all you who are using implementing interactive applications what types widgets you would like have your applications widget usually located the same scene other objects the application may let you manipulate application data the camera objects the scene and view the status the application objects via the widget shape color position orientation and whatever missed but you think possible for example manipulative widget can virtual trackball shown partially transparent sphere super imposed the object rotated feedback widget can ruler with ends anchored objects the length the ruler changes the objects move and numeric value shown the ruler indicating the distance widget can provide both manipulation and feedback for example the ruler can used change the distance between the objects along its own axis please mail post your opinions interaction the information gathered will help design construction tool your help very much appreciated tony lau tlau ubc student dept computer science
comp.graphics	kubota kenai denali specs lioness maple circa ufl edu okay got enough replies about the kubota kenai denali systems that will post summary their capabilities graphics transform modules frame buffer modules frame buffer bit bit double buffered double buffered buffer bit bit alpha stencil bit bit pmartz dsd com paul martz does this mean they can either alpha stenciling but not both simultaneously lioness maple circa ufl edu stereo support yes yes other both machines will double buffer stereo output per window both have auxiliary video output that ntsc and pal pmartz dsd com paul martz same question again does this mean they can either double buffering stereo but not both simultaneously for both these questions inclusive alpha plus stencil supported they separate double buffered stereo steve hollasch kubota pacific computer inc hollasch kpc com santa clara california barbie had right math hard
comp.graphics	phigs user group conference first annual phigs user group conference the first annual phigs user group conference was held march orlando florida the conference was organized the rensse laer design research center operation with ieee and sig graph attendees came from five countries spanning three con tinents good cross section the phigs community was represented this conference with participants including phigs users workstation vendors third party phigs implementors stan dards committee members and researchers from industry and academia the opening speaker richard puk challenged phigs users take charge your phigs participating phigs standardization activities and communicating their needs phigs implementors the closing speaker andries van dam described his vision the future graphics standards beyond phigs technical paper sessions the conference covered the following topics phigs and application toolkits application issues texture mapping nurbs phigs extensions and object oriented libraries and frameworks panel sessions phigs and pex phigs non retained data real world cad applications using phigs and portability issues generated enthusiastic discussions and formed good forum for exchange ideas needs and experiences the conference also included day full tutorials topics rang ing from mathematics for graphics object oriented tools based phigs next year conference planned for march phigs everywhere the conference phigs vendors described and demonstrated phigs products that run all types computers from pcs mainframes megatek corporation demonstrated their phigs extensions including conditional traversal composite logical input devices texturing and translucency template graphics software launched figaro pro the photo realistic option for phigs figaro pro designed add advanced rendering the existing phigs api with features like ray tracing materials anti aliasing and texture mapping radiosity support also planned figaro example how tgs continues add newly emerging graphics features their products figaro supports immediate mode extensions phigs and also supports sun xgl starbase and sgi opengl figaro for will released this summer tgs also demonstrated the latest versions figraph powerful call charting system based phigs and figt object oriented utility library for phigs pex developers and gallium software demonstrated new version gphigs silicon graphics workstations scheduled for summer ver sion gphigs the company phigs library for worksta tions will include advanced phigs debugger that allows phigs developers display and browse phigs structures and other phigs internal state also described their non duplicated data store that stores pointers application data the gphigs css for more efficient use memory addition described their application gse that allows application callback functions during gphigs traversal gphigs and phigure data visual izer and application development toolkit are currently available all major workstations that support windows pex starbase wise software presented slide show phigs for windows and arena phigs based modeller render phigs implements most the phigs primitives addition phigs has built many advanced rendering features like texture mapping shadow genera tion area quick updates and ray tracing demo disk phigs arena available request atc exhibited grafpak phigs their full featured phigs implemen tation based dec phigs grafpak phigs available most workstation platforms with fortran and ada bindings and incor porates pex support within the booth sponsored advanced technology center digital equipment corporation demonstrated dec phigs running the dec axp pxg atcs grafpak phigs port dec phigs dec phigs contains most phigs and phigs plus features with support for pex protocol dec phigs also contains most eds phigs extensions including post view well proprietary extensions support immediate mode rendering and the use phigs environment axp dec and dec phigs are trademarks digital equipment cor poration grafpak phigs and atc are trademarks advanced tech nology center pex and are trademarks massachusetts insti tute technology the ibm exhibit featured gto accelerator attached ibm workstation running graphigs and pex hewlett packard and shographics demonstrated the conference hewlett packard machine was coupled display shographics pex terminal showcased their latest phigs product enhance ments phigs user group the phigs users group was formed aid the development phigs applications and provide user feedback phigs implementors and phigs standards bodies for more information about the phigs users group send mail phigsug cadrt edu write sankar jayaram virginia polytechnic institute randolph hall blacksburg fax vendor contacts megatek corporation tel fax template graphics software tel fax wise software gmbh tel fax north american sales tel fax advanced technology center tel fax digital equipment corporation tel international business machines corporation tel hewlett packard company tel copies the conference proceedings copies the conference proceedings may obtained contact ing mary johnson johnson mary design and manufacturing institute rensselaer polytechnic institute eighth street building cii room troy tel fax email mjohnson rdrc rpi edu the cost per binder
comp.graphics	parametric variational design everyone looking for papers articels books any other source information about parametric variational design cad solid modeling any suggetions references would greatly appreaciated thanks advance jayesh patel enuxha eas asu edu
comp.graphics	very broad question considering creating demo for the ibm for band would like combine interesting graphics and sample music the program have seen things like this done for other platforms and even few for the but since completly new this have idea wher start pretty sure that not skilled enough put this together but was hoping that you collectivly could let know what issues need worry about things should take into consideration when developing the concept perhaps someone knows programmer artist who would interested this type project know these are rather broad questions but any information would most helpful thanks gregory winer cwru edu
comp.graphics	rgb hvs and back article apr htsa aha remcoha htsa aha remco hartog writes have little question need convert rgb coded red green blue colors into hvs coded hue value saturnation colors does anyone know which formulas use have little answer see foley van dam feiner and hughes computer graphics principles and practice second edition people would read this book percent the questions this froup would disappear overnight spl steve lamont sciviguy spl szechuan ucsd edu san diego microscopy and imaging resource san diego jolla other car car too bumper strip seen
comp.graphics	gif viewer source code for does anyone know where could get some source code for gif viewer doesn have fancy would best were written display gif pictures vga screen was hoping get for free from ftp site but haven been able find yet david lau davidla ecs comm mot com
comp.graphics	final call for papers call for papers progress neural networks special volume shape analysis omid omidvar minsoo suk series editor volume editor significant progress has been made recently shape analysis using neural networks and the energy minimization concept ablex publishing corporation planning special volume shape analysis scheduled for this year this volume will part progress neural networks annual book series reviewing research modelling analysis design and application neural networks the primary aim this volume present single volume the most important achievements made this important topic which are otherwise scattered diverse literature authors are invited submit original manuscripts detailing recent progress suggested topics include but are not limited shape modelling shape estimation shape recovery shape representation shape matching surface reconstruction and surface decomposition research work utilizing neural networks directly based energy minimization techniques such markov random field mean field annealing simulated annealing graduated non convexity algorithms and resistive networks are most welcome the paper should tutorial nature self contained and preferably but not necessarily about fifty double spaced pages length please send electronically you prefer you can send hardcopy the address below abstract and outline msuk ima enst may the full paper must submitted july europe usa professor minsoo suk professor omid omidvar department images computer science department ecole nationale superieure university district columbia des telecommunications connecticut ave rue barrault washington paris cedex phone france fax fax email oomidvar udcvax bitnet email msuk ima enst
comp.graphics	acm siggraph registration problem word warning for those you registering for siggraph just received registration form back the mail with the envelope marked return sender moved left address closed box the address used register for siggraph the one printed the registration form acm siggraph box chicago printed the envelope best printing honest but evidently siggraph has skipped town moved ended faxing registration hope that number real michael zyda
comp.graphics	ntsc data rgb for video capture usually you apply after unlevelshifting and subtracting from them this matrix multiplication may give results out rgb space you have clamp the resulting bytes the conversion should done with arbitrary big integers not floats this applies yuv data whereas ntsc may have yiq where degree rotation buid brain inside andre beck abpsoft mehl andre beck irs inf dresden
comp.graphics	fast polygon routine needed article apr eye com jesse eye com jesse lackey writes article rguqoinnrc edna swin edu alan saturn swin alan christiansen writes believe that the algorithms you can get that will only draw convex polygons can much more efficient than those that can draw concave self intersecting polygons this efficiency can largely attributed the fact that simple convex polygons only have left and right edge each scan line complex figure type polygons can bit trickier true the convex algorithm faster than general concave multi outline algorithm but not tremendously faster spent awhile implementing and optimizing both flavors and the convex turned out about faster this all risc the compiler got the inner loop shooting the span fast possible far could tell for any sort game the database render known ahead time and can made all convex definitely the way thanks for help everyone still haven found quite what looking for but got finals coming soon have put all this hold thanx lucas
comp.graphics	digital terrain data for visualization needed need terrain data for visualization research currently taking place tel aviv university have two databases that are currently working but would like work more databases possibly more complicated and ones that will give prettier images before describe what kind data need let mention that are going present paper titled photo realistic imaging digital terrains which describes the research and the results the eurographics conference barcelona this september are going show video tape with some our results any good data that will receive will presented the tape with mention the donator are working databases consisting aerial satelite photographs and terrain elevation maps dtm each database consists array height values any data format can used for each value and corresponding array color values can gray level color value full bit values other format can also used work and resolution databases anybody has access this kind data knows where can get such data files please respond this news group better email directly amit math tau amit shaked danny indigo bgu daniel cohen course the names the people who will help get the data will cited our paper and further publications
comp.graphics	ftp site with gifs have been looking around some ftp sites and cannot find one with any good gif files could someone please tell some ftp sites which posses goods gifs and wide range please email the address above thanks martin
comp.graphics	kubota freedome more people have been asking for information the kubota graphics workstations here some more info the kenai denali the freedom here the text denali freedom done brown associates denali bears strong resemblance evans and sutherlands freedom graphics subsystem several aspects its high level design both products use parallel array processors for geometric computations both have pixel router connect this front end second array pixel processors result denali and freedome overlap significantly performance and functionality both design teams also appear have similar philosophies with respect modularity scalability and market penetration there remain however several important differences between the kpc and products evans and sutherland designed freedom high end developer dream system with plenty performance potential and flexibility its favor freedom has configurations from two sixteen floating point units border range that starts and ends higher price and performance levels than denali all freedom systems include large fixed number pixel processors that support broader variety color blending functions the freedom design treats its entire image memory general purpose memory allowing developers allocate flexible basis number special purpose applications finally provided freedom with very flexible otput and video integration features for multimedia and simulation applications note that kpc working auxiliary board for ntsc and pal output that will not require external video encoder programmable output features however will remain much more flexible the kpc design team contrast made denali more end user system entry version have better performance range and flexibility than low end freedom configurations and come more realistic mainstream price points denali does not need many modules freedome because uses deeper scan conversion pipeline support each one resulting better cost performance characteristics although both products provide strong support for imaging and volume rendering kpc recognized that not all users will want even mix these capabilities denali configuration flexibility allows customers effect purchase geometric and pixel processing capabilities separately and upgrade them separately needed both companies have implemented hardware texture mapping workstation price levels way attack sgi more expensive vgxt and realityengine systems the only other products provide this capability kpc supports point sampling and bilinear interpolation textures hardware but provides only software support for the higher qualtiy tri linear interpolated mipmapping method balance however denali provideds bettern overall texturing capabilities than for most applications aside from being much more affordable kpc solutions deliver more parallelism for texture processing and more off screen memory for general graphics data storage implementing texture mapping its transformation modules foces customers move very quickly higher price levels obtain better texturing performance kubota avoids this problem linking texturing its frame buffer modules providing lower cost more scalable solution hope this helps brian this was reprinted without permission for the full text please contact kubota
comp.graphics	problems article apr nessie mcc lilley mcc writes yes bit program this not bug never claimed bug can import bit images and quantises them down bits this handy facility not bug never claimed bug how would you suggest doing colour editing bit file how would you group related colours edit them together only global changes could done unless the software were very different and much more complicated you want colour editing bit image you need much more powerfull software which readily available commercially guess edited note this away from the article posted many newsgroups wrote something about making color modifications quickly with bit quantized images and only the saving the image file process have make the modifications the bit image this makes sense because the main use only viewing images doing many changes image should keep all modifications buffer and then before making the operations bit image should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations and lastly jpeg compression algorithm can applied any image arbitrary bit depth again this not bug never claimed bug tried kept sure don claim that jpeg noting else than compression algorithm because know what the jpeg you propably misunderstood what wrote you have done many places far you also missed what were wrong with however did wrote juhana kouhia
comp.graphics	convertion program gremlin was wondering somebody knows program for converting any graphic formats such fig pic unixplot tek etc gremlin thanks dan
comp.graphics	human head modeling software article wbp taurus nps navy mil adaptive nps navy mil zyda res acct writes there interested facial animation and want implement some program about this area but don have any information for the face looking for some images face try getting the cyberware demo via ftp which contains images the face what the copyright status this data are there restrictions regarding the uses they can put kaveh kaveh kardan kardank ere umontreal kaveh all the data included with the cyberware demo non proprietary use you like just ask that you give credit you use research paper project and send the results thanks geo cyberware george dabrowski cyberware labs dabro taurus nps navy mil
comp.graphics	colour transform for red green colour blindness posted behalf craig southeren who does not have access net account can anyone provide with colour space transform that would emulate the effects red green colour blindness have had quick look the computer graphics literature with results perhaps someone who has access medical information could help would like write program probably ppm filter allow previewing images check for sufficient contract for colour blind users not being colour blind myself this bit difficult please email replies will summarise and repost there sufficient interest craig craig southeren you can have good cheap chief engineer fast any two picture start productions arthur clarke email geoffw ucc phone educate don legislate
comp.graphics	rgb hls hsv conversion routines wanted article sun nluug bultman dgw rws bultman writes looking for rgb cube hls double hexcone hsv cylinder conversion routines have rgb hsv but miss the hls rgb hsv have you checked foley book the solutions are chapter yeh usc
comp.graphics	rgb hvs and back article ltu buinne caspian usc edu zyeh caspian usc edu zhenghao yeh writes see foley van dam feiner and hughes computer graphics principles and practice second edition people would read this book percent the questions this froup would disappear overnight not really think less than nah figure most people would busy reading that they wouldn have time post spl steve lamont sciviguy spl szechuan ucsd edu san diego microscopy and imaging resource san diego jolla until meet you then upper hell convulsed foaming immortal blood farewell berryman professor song
comp.graphics	why does illustrator autotrace poorly use arts letters and you make use the tracing preferences traces beautifully but there trick tracing traced entire cartoon images into custom clip art but you can expect just point the image and get just like that takes little work some cases lot work you need trace drawing piece piece and then put together kinda hard explain type but you ever reno can give you little demonstration
comp.graphics	rgb hvs and back have little answer see foley van dam feiner and hughes computer graphics principles and practice second edition people would read this book percent the questions this froup would disappear overnight not really think less than yeh usc
comp.graphics	graphic design newsgroup which newsgroup discusses graphic design pcs and macs know like with corel draw
comp.graphics	screen capture there dos screen capture utility shareware that will work reliably with vesa screens thanks stockman hwstock sandia llnl gov
comp.graphics	arts letters graphics editor does anyone this group use this program stacks pretty well corel draw and since don have cdrom was the best buy maybe someone would interested trading tips and tricks
comp.graphics	ftp site with gifs mharring cch coventry martin writes have been looking around some ftp sites and cannot find one with any good gif files could someone please tell some ftp sites which posses goods gifs and wide range whatever you don ftp the sites listed sig you won like what you find really beg you not there please stastny otis project end process sound news and arts ftp sunsite unc edu pub multimedia pictures otis omaha projects otis email cwis unomaha edu sunsite unc edu
comp.graphics	colour transform for red green colour blindness article geoffw extro ucc geoffw extro ucc geoffrey warren hicks writes posted behalf craig southeren who does not have access net account can anyone provide with colour space transform that would emulate the effects red green colour blindness have had quick look the computer graphics literature with results perhaps someone who has access medical information could help certainly reference follows bear mind that there are least two conditions which may called red green colour blind one protanopia caused lack major dysfunction the cones those that respond best long wavelengths this gives much reduced red green and red violet discrimination and also means that reds look dimmer than than they people with normal vision the other deuteranopia due missing dysfunctional cones although can also caused lack the cone difference signals the retina also gives reduced red green discrimination but red violet unaffected unlike protanopia reds are not dimmer than normal uniform chromaticity diagram the horseshoe shaped one you see computer graphics books there single confusion point for each type colour deficiency colours which are confused lie straight lines radiating from this point for protanopia the point very close the far red corner for deuteranopia the point note that different experimental investigations the literature give slightly different values for these depending the precise details the experimental setup random errors and the values quoted are typical all colours line are seen the same which colour actually seen this problem has now been solved tests people with one normal eye and one affected eye have shown that there axis for each type disorder onto which all the colours collapse for protanopes this joins and the spectral locus the edge the horseshoe for deuteranopes the line very similar joining and convert colours from normal vision simulated protanopia duuteranopia plot the colour uniform chromaticity diagram construct line from this point the appropriate confusion point find the intersection this line with the appropriate axis line this the new chromaticity the best reference for this meyer greenberg colour defective vision and computer graphics displays ieee computer graphics and applications you will also need decent reference basic colour science you are not familiar with the cie xyz colour model and the uniform chromaticity scale diagram would like write program probably ppm filter allow previewing images check for sufficient contract for colour blind users not being colour blind myself this bit difficult yes this certainly possible you will need the chromaticities the red green and blue phosphors the monitor you intend display the images and the chromaticity the white point this information can measured obtained from the manufacturer posted list some monitor chromaticities couple weeks ago the procedure for each pixel follows some lookup tables might help here convert rgb cie xyz this simple matrix multiplication once you have the monitor data retaining the component for later convert xyz chromaticity coordinates using find the equation the line step above find the intersection step convert back from xyz using the value from step ensure that this new colour can displayed your monitor not move along line xyz space towards neutral grey half way between black and white until displayable please email replies will summarise and repost there sufficient interest done also posted for the rest chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	gif viewer having trouble viewing gif files system large sections don show have tried vpic and picem both the same running gateway with speedstar plus vga card and nec multisync inch monitor any suggestions don know robert woodward department physiology university missouri columbia mail mizzou missouri edu
comp.graphics	turning photographic images into thermal print and negatives article apr seq uncwil edu hawks seq uncwil edu david hawks writes for business and the end product has photograph take damaged black and whites usually old some very and repair them hand present would like this using computer just trying find vendor who can convert computer stored images negatives thermal print the customer will want his her copy much possible like brand new original photgraph there are several crt film writers around agfa has some they also might called matrix and pretty sure other companies sell the same equipment you might want talk any company your area that does presentation slides offers graphics services they should have those machines and they might point you local vendor from there all question money they units are essentially high res crts plus filter wheel plus camera and computer hook david reiner currently shooting slides for next talk one the agfa machines
comp.graphics	viewing jpeg files can view jpeg files without special hardware lucy wilson access services librarian college engineering university cincinnati
comp.graphics	libraries for text math graphics display does anyone know any libraries for preparing and displaying quickly pages mixed text mathematical equations and graphics circles ellipses etc the vdu the maths wouldnt need tex quality but would useful scaleable the main thing would able generate the display quickly from minimum set formatting code thanks campbell
comp.graphics	rgb hvs and back article ltu buinne caspian usc edu zyeh caspian usc edu zhenghao yeh writes see foley van dam feiner and hughes computer graphics principles and practice second edition people would read this book percent the questions this froup would disappear overnight not really think less than alternatively the questions cover the topics this group making them frequently asked the other cover the topics making them rarely asked and thus sore need answering chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	problems article rohjc avt tut lehtori tut kouhia juhana writes article apr nessie mcc lilley mcc writes moved bit wrote something about making color modifications quickly with bit quantized images and only the saving the image file process have make the modifications the bit image this makes sense because the main use only viewing images doing many changes image should keep all modifications buffer and then before making the operations bit image should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations think about what you are saying here the bit image quantised down bits many similar colours are mapped onto single palette colour this colour gets modified fairly arbitrary ways you then want apply these modifications back the bit file you have find which colours mapped this one palette colour you could this copying the bit file bit file and using the extra bits hold the index entry having done this you need something them what exactly apply the difference rgb between the original and modified palette entry each colour the group this could generate colours with rgb outside the range would also lead discontinuities when different parts smooth colour gradient mapped several different palette entries you could interpolate from full modification modification depending how far each colour was from the palette entry however suspect this would look rather odd summary what said previous posting still holds how would you suggest doing colour editing bit file how would you group related colours edit them together only global changes could done unless the software were very different and much more complicated you want colour editing bit image you need much more powerfull software which readily available commercially other words edit bit file you need software built for the job tacking mods onto going create more problems than solves the other bits you seemed claiming that there were bugs that was not what you meant then you propably misunderstood what wrote you have done many places far yes probably did found that the collected digest format your posting made little difficult understand precisely what your point was sorry misunderstood you also missed what were wrong with however did wrote yes again what was wrong with chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	question modes need know there color graphics mode that allows multiple pages want something like mode pages have been experimenting with graphics calling the bios with borland turbo feel like flying blind this area and could use all the help that you can give thanks ivan ivan pulleyn university rochester mail uhura rochester edu
comp.graphics	raw gif hello can anybody help find program that converts format named raw also known img the gif format jpeg one desirable for unix machine than for raw format image file that contain tail characters each one referencing the pixel the monocrome image where and lies between and thanxs mne ing puc
comp.graphics	pbm dec when the new version does anyone know the fabled new version pbm will out soon far know the current version dec jeff are you out there jeffrey hundstad
comp.graphics	ascii ansi pics where can someone tell where could find ansi ascii pics already found the gopher ascii pics thanks richard mancsuo curdm uxa ecn bgu edu
comp.graphics	digital cameras interested obtaining the highest possible image capture windows application the resulting image must print and high resolution the name the game familiar with and unhappy with composite video capture technology what kind resolution can get out svhs signal what about rgb and who makes rgb cameras does anyone have any experience with digital cameras any help all would greatly appreciated william brandsdorfer uucp uunet lehman com wbrand lehman brothers inet wbrand lehman com greenwich voice new york
comp.graphics	windows bmp something wanted day all looking for program convert bmp images gif tga even ppm prefer unix program but dos fine also seen alchemy for dos and some windows image viewers which can save image other formats but what after converter not viewer any help would apprieciated cheers stephen peter unsw edu stephen peter steve keystone arch unsw edu school architecture university new south wales australia phone fax messages
comp.graphics	ibm writing screen memory graphics can anyone give information lead electronic information not books too poor regarding programming the standard graphics modes and are easy enough but not sure about the rest something about planes something and writing ports and the like but don know the numbers anything for the color modes think wrong let know also just one byte pixel that easy enough but are there any other ways write the screen perhaps bytes time something like that course appreciate any information about any mode which reminds another question the supervga modes work the same generally the normal and color modes not only the mode numbers for various cards different but the methods for writing the screen different well thanks for any help you can give developing screen class for and find myself searching for information have ralf brown interrupt list which has given tons invaluable information already just doesn into the screen programming details except for the read write pixel bios calls thanks again edward ball sigless knight eball calvin edu
comp.graphics	synergy revolt otis colaberation project the otis project presents synergy revolt the first continuing series collaborative art initiatives designed exploit the binarity the infosphere this series diversely structured art manipulation projects will attempt stretch across network boundries encouraging use electronic mail fax video photography scanned conventional art and even sound create multi artist still visuals gif and jpg formats visualists from all technical levels are welcome revolt will structured simply there will three stages production the first stage will consist all participants creating one still work starter piece that two other partici pants will turn manipulate all first stage base images are due sunday may midnight central daylight time stage two will begin may all images will sent another arbitrarily chosen participant for them manipulations anyway they see fit for purely digital artists this may consist filtering the image through their favorite paint program for analog artists this may well printing hardcopy the image and adding their own part with pen pencil white out then scan ning the image again transferred the third stage artist all second stage works are due midnight sunday may stage three the finishing stage and will begin may all artists will what they think takes finish the image they been given using whatever technique they see worthy these images will due june midnight all involved will participate each stage creation join send email mail with the following info name email address mail address scanner access color grey none printer access laser postscript inkjet color dot computer access mac ibm sun amiga atari next other output format tiff targa gif jpeg pict postscript fax photocopy pcx windows bitmap graphics level bit bit bit ftp access time limitations address the information email mad celt cwis unomaha edu andrew booth project manager include revolt the subject line mail the otis project synergy revolt omaha remember all starter images are due sunday may deposit them either these ftp sites sunsite unc edu pub multimedia pictures otis incoming projects otis incoming send uuencoded images via email send hardcopies address above arrange fax exchange you don get your starter image you won able participate until synergy phase mid june will our best accomodate facilitate image exchange for the technologically impaired you don have access scanner but need one try help you need image printed out and sent you let know send sase you anticipate this additional information available the following suggestions for use uncommon mediums such video stills electronic imaging and sound fax availability times copyright considerations appropriation image conversion the otis project general andy booth were you ever abducted aliens ever see elvis the local would like hear from you omaha about any paranormal experiences you have had
comp.graphics	rgb hvs and back remco hartog remcoha htsa aha wrote have little question need convert rgb coded red green blue colors into hvs coded hue value saturnation colors does anyone know which formulas use lets see have this right hsv hsb hsl and none those are the same hls hopefully hvs just transposition hsv and not yet another color model the following code should the hsv hsl coding haven tried yet thanks bultman dgw rws another possibility mirrors msdos graphics graphgem zip wuarchive wustl edu bill neisius bill solaria hac com the following code from the starbase manual all coordinates noralised interval hsl rgb hue saturation luminosity red green blue float hue saturation luminosity input hsl float red green blue output rgb float frac temporaries hue hue frac hue int hue luminosity saturation luminosity saturation frac luminosity saturation frac switch int hue case case red luminosity green blue break case red green luminosity blue break case red green luminosity blue break case red green blue luminosity break case red green blue luminosity break case red luminosity green blue break rgb hsl red green blue hue saturation luminosity define max define min float red green blue input rgb float hue saturation luminosity output hsl float tempr tempg tempb temporary values hue saturation luminosity max red green blue min red green blue luminosity calculate only necessary saturation luminosity luminosity saturation calculate only necessary tempr luminosity red luminosity tempg luminosity green luminosity tempb luminosity blue luminosity red luminosity hue green tempb tempg else green luminosity hue blue tempr tempb else hue red tempg tempr hue
comp.graphics	help needed dxf iff sorry this faq but are there any conversion utilities available for autodesk dxf amiga iff format checked the comp graphics faq and number sites but far banana please mail thanks pei hsieh mail cunixb columbia edu there such thing small job just small fees anon being architect
comp.graphics	looking for polygon convexifier does anyone know where can find code which would take concave polygons and break them into set convex polygons thanks kevin sahr piglet uccs edu
comp.graphics	looking for job software engineer not sure that supposed post this mail here however during the last year while was involved developing graphical user interface gui applications have enjoyed being personally part this news group wherin got some interesting information which helped work posting resuming hoping that people working area would make time look westgate hall isu ames april dear prospective employer seeking employment software engineer with interests software design and development which can utilize experience hardware programming graphical user interface gui operating systems and computer networking received bachelors engineering degree electronics engineering and degree electrical engineering dec from iowa state university currently enrolled computer engineering iowa state university during masters program research assistant since jan have published three papers including one the ieee transactions magnetics these papers are reflection the quality research and ability learn new concepts quickly have been involved many projects involving software developments and have extensive experience programming fortran and assembly level also familiar with operating systems like unix ultrix and dos familiar with motif programming and currently research assistant involved graphical user interface gui design using the multiplatform gui toolkit xvt experiences also include areas such operating systems and computer networks through course work and projects was involved the study the design and development the internals the xinu operating system have also been involved many tcp programming projects computer networking while college learnt the importance clear and concise communication have also learned lot about time management program have maintained grade average worked hours per week and have enjoyed being involved many other extra curricular activities software experiences along with hardware background electronics engineering would very helpful career goals software engineer request that qualifications may kindly reviewed would like have interview discuss your employment needs and career goals eager hear from you soon sincerely rajesh rajsnr iastate edu resume rajesh work residence coover isu westgate hall isu ames ames mail rajsnr iastate edu objective obtain challenging position software engineer involving software design and development which can utilize experience hardware programming graphical user interface gui operating systems and computer networking education currently enrolled computer engineering iowa state university ames iowa electrical engineering iowa state university ames iowa dec gpa major overall thesis probability detection pod models for eddy current nondestructive evaluation nde methods project funded federal aviation administration faa electronics engineering bangalore university bangalore india jan publications rajesh udpa and udpa numerical model based approach for estimating probability detection nde applications ieee transactions magnetics vol march rajesh udpa and udpa estimation eddy current probability detection using finite element model presented the annual review progress quantitative nondestructive evaluation conferance san diego california jul rajesh udpa udpa and nakagawa probability detection models for eddy current nde methods presented the annual review progress quantitative nondestructive evaluation conferance brunswick jul relevant implemention operating systems electronic devices and circuits course computer network architecture pulse and digital circuits work advanced computer communications artificial neural networks introduction supercomputing pattern recognition microprocessors and computer digital image processing organization digital signal processing computer technology and integrated circuits and design programming projects implementation the fork system call the xinu operating system also involved the implementation cpu scheduling algorithm taking into consideration the aging processes this project involved the study the design and development the internals the xinu operating system design and development interrupt driven keyboard driver this project involved thorough understanding device drivers design and development unix like tree structured directory which allows the creation subdirectories and organization files accordingly this project included the implementation routines such mkdir rmdir and support the directory structure analysis methods congestion control computer networks implementation the bellman ford routing algorithm for distributed network the communication between network nodes was based udp this project involved programming simulation the various digital logic functional units starting from the basic gates registers counters adders multipliers arithmetic logic unit alu and the project involved extensive programming unix environment work research assistant center for nde iowa state university ames experience aug present work involves development applications using graphical user interface gui toolkits familiar with programming motif environment more recent work involves development multiplatform gui applications using the portable gui toolkit xvt this project supported nist national institute standards and technology research assistant center for nde iowa state university ames jan aug work involved developing software for modeling electromagnetic nde techniques such the eddy current method also involved optimization the code the parallel computer cray ymp this project was supported faa and involved working close contact with the aircraft industry boeing trainee engineer indian telephone industries bangalore india work involved design and development microprocessor based programmable telephone dialler used cordless telephones involved programming microprocessor control the pulsing actions the relays telephone circuit jan nov computer languages fortran assembly level skills software motif xvt computer graphics hoops tcp programming image processing utilities sdrc ideas autocad operating systems unix stellix ultrix dos systems dec series and sun workstations macintosh stellar parallel systems cray ymp ibm maspar cube honours and iowa state university graduate college scholarship activities jan present ranked out over students bachelors engineering entrance examination ensuring full scholarship from the state pursue bachelors degree current member ieee references available upon request
comp.graphics	intel pci standard read mesg somewhere genie about intel coming out with graphics standard called pci which would supplant vesa standards this rumor there some substance any all have heard this standard please mail how might obtain more info thanks advance vamilliron othello ucd edu
comp.graphics	pov ray for vax computer there using pov ray ibm compatible home but would like run some things work our vax computer believe there version the source code for pov ray that vax specific but not sure where find looked the several sites where the ibmpc version can found can anyone help thanks advance ross kummer rmit melbourne australia internet address rkummer phillip edu clever signoff yet too busy playing with pov ray
comp.graphics	gws anybody know where can get graphics work shop brad utkvx utk edu
comp.graphics	problems article apr nessie mcc lilley mcc writes article rohjc avt tut lehtori tut kouhia juhana writes wrote something about making color modifications quickly with bit quantized images and only the saving the image file process have make the modifications the bit image this makes sense because the main use only viewing images doing many changes image should keep all modifications buffer and then before making the operations bit image should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations think about what you are saying here the bit image quantised down bits many similar colours are mapped onto single palette colour this colour gets modified fairly arbitrary ways you then want apply these modifications back the bit file you have find which colours mapped this one palette colour suppose you don know what about have discussed discussed about error which shows images only bit and suggestion above works perfectly with far have seen colormap editing window that there must colormap anyway the problems you present are exist anyway and didn tried solve them all because would not make such problems programs the first place gamma and color corrections are easily done bit image presented there need make tricks from bit quantized image back bit image how would you suggest doing colour editing bit file how would you group related colours edit them together only global changes could done unless the software were very different and much more complicated you writing about situation that user want edit images bit and user want edit individual colors your questions the way jumps off the discussion bit solution doesn work because there colormap withing real bit image you see user see bit image going back bit silly about changing individual colors bit quantized rasterized image changing individual colors colormap useless most cases the image quantized and rasterized small change may make serious errors anywhere the image allows this feature but don recommend use with the mentioned type images moreover not paint program you can only make those global changes full bit changing individual colors sounds like paint program job person have bit screen there need for tricks get the original bit image modified because user don see full bit image there need make approximations and not possible modify individual colors but individual pixels pixel groups image rasterized select indiavidual color there could cursor window which shows true color image cursor window area selecting individual color possible from that don have thought very much bit painting programs never seen such good view and are not planned make such not mention bit painting program bit screen yes again what was wrong with saved bit quantized rasterized images bit jpegs jpeg not designed for that also human expect that bit will saved bit image say person would like crop part the image and save then expected that the image still the same were designed without thinking about human interface and how human expect the program work design error have heard were designed first for bit images files but were not good idea take full bit images without making major change the original design even all screen images are bit the processed images and saved images could have been bit very easily instead bit before anybody will make note yes may well make lift where means that the lift goes down and down means that the lift goes and put note this design solution the manuals however even the manuals tells the correct situation doesn solve the problem americans the lift just example well text may bit hard reading hopefully you suggeeded read juhana kouhia
comp.graphics	raw gif you can use pbm rawtopgm convert three raw files pgm format then you can use pgm toppm convert the pgm files composite ppm file and feed this cjpeg for compression slow and circuitous but will work rick
comp.graphics	help needed dxf iff article apr news columbia edu cunixb columbia edu pei hsieh writes sorry this faq but are there any conversion utilities available for autodesk dxf amiga iff format checked the comp graphics faq and number sites but far banana please mail thanks pei hsieh mail cunixb columbia edu there such thing small job just small fees anon being architect hei pei can not help you directly width you problem but there may intermediate roads take get the iff using converter that can take iges iif dxf iges milespec iges milespec iges iif milespec iif milespec iif and dxf iif ibm iges format there may converters out there that can handle iges iff hope this was any help the way the converter part the iges processor package from ibm and runs aix best regard finn chr lundbo ibm bergen environmental sciences solutions centre mail finn bsc
comp.graphics	for dos what the problem downloaded the file exe zip from the site someone posted here contained the files cjpeg exe djpeg exe exe when tried run just said couldn run exe and halts what the matter with this are there some files missing the zip what exe any help appreciated bye wolfram wolfram kresse mail wolfram rbg informatik darmstadt meeneemeeneemeenee yes that right tweeky
comp.graphics	alpha kubota graphic sgi who has experience with porting program alpha apx workstation with kubota denali graphic there any problems the real graphic performance like sgi indigo juergen fechter universitaet tuebingen wsi gris office auf der morgenstelle fax tuebingen germany email fechter gris informatik uni tuebingen
comp.graphics	tiff complexity article enet dec com you write anyone who thinks that tiff too complex hasn dealt with cgm asn cda dca sgml any one number other very successful file format people seem perfectly capable dealing with these others well yeah but unlike tiff they all substantially more than encode rectangular bitmaps and the others are hardly trouble free hear that quite common for cgm implementations not interoperate the annoying thing about tiff that that along with the useful options there are stupid options the most egregious example that rather than picking byte order and bit order and using consistently all tiff files byte and bit order are options and all tiff readers all machines matter what their natural byte order have prepared byte swapping there are four slightly different fax formats again any one them would have been adequate rgb images can stored pixel component complexity without function etc etc also note that the tiff doc says that aldus experiments show that lzw reliably compresses well better than any the fax formats suggesting that none the fax formats are really useful what worse lot the formats aren even implemented very well lzw limits code words bits while bits would have provided substantially better compression and the lzw method compresses bytes rather than pixels but the absolute worst thing about tiff that any vendor can register proprietary tiff codes and formats without even publicly documenting them this means that there way write tiff reader that can reliably read all incoming tiff files some standard regards john levine johnl iecc cambridge spdcc ima world iecc johnl
comp.graphics	help need bits viewer article apr labtam labtam graeme labtam labtam graeme gill writes article seti inria deniaud cartoon inria gilles deniaud writ looking for program which able display bits images are using sun sparc equipped with parallax graphics board running xli xloadimage imagemagick export lcs mit edu contrib shareware supports bit displays and has lots other improvements over earlier versions definitely worth checking out also export jean jean liddle computer science illinois state university mail jliddle ilstu edu
comp.graphics	looking for brain cad jasen mabus rpi student looking for hman brain any cad dxf cad iges cgm etc picture gif jpg ras etc format for animation demonstration any has knows location please reply mail mabusj rpi edu thank you advance jasen mabus
comp.graphics	sci files and sco files hello there week ago guy asked what sco file was well researched bit and foundout that just another rix file sci files are files and sco files are files alle the other formats are also called something like character regards rued
comp.graphics	real article vall dsv matt dah dsv mattias dahlberg writes rauno haapaniemi raunoh otol wrote earlier today read for real animation ray tracing software and looked very convincing yes looks like very good indeed however don own amiga and began wonder there version nope did not hear that there maybe some ports real version the pipeline somewhere possibly unix not too sure though please put straight gary work serc daresbury lab internet coulter daresbury uni staffordshire university hardware regards email mattias matt dah dsv love
comp.graphics	tom gaskins pexlib phigs programming manuals reilly article neuro usc edu merlin neuro usc edu merlin writes could someone explain the difference between tom gaskins two books pexlib programming manual phigs programming manual why would want buy one book the other book have pexlib and phigs comes from mit with pex and explained the phigs programming manual are just different api for the pex protocol which extension the protocol depends you what you use advantage phigs the protability other platforms ibm graphigs sunphigs and the standardized structuring the objects advantage pexlib the sometimes faster and easier programming for immediate mode graphics because pex not exactly mapping phigs prortocol ooo ooo roland holzapfel computer email wilhelminenstrasse graphics holzapfe igd fhg darmstadt center phone germany zgdv this space intentionally left blank
comp.graphics	intel pci standard vamilliron yes intel pci another local bus standard which can used for graphics although believe local buses can used for other things too far know though pci local bus would compete with vesa local bus not the vesa graphics standard but others more enlightened might able shed more light this matter
comp.graphics	wanted shareware graphics display program for dos need graphics display program that can take parameter the name the file displayed then just display that image and then quit all the other graphics display programs come with menu first some other silliness this program going run from within another program have lots memory and vga color any graphics format will has anyone heard such beast keith keith knudsen notre dame
comp.graphics	scia invitation the scia the scandinavian conference image analysis will arranged the norwegian society for image processing and pattern recognition nobim and sponsored the international association for pattern recognition iapr the conference will held tromsoe from may tromsoe located latitude degrees northern norway centre for administration and education about the programme the scientific programme runs over four days and includes invited speakers sessions three parallel tracks with contributed papers and poster sessions with contributions the conference covers the following topics image processing and analysis pattern recognition computer vision parallel algorithms and architectures neural nets matching methods image compression remote sensing medical and biological applications industrial applications conference language the official language the conference english invited talks and speakers segmentation range images via data fusion and morphological watersheds professor ralph gonzalez university tennessee knoxville object recognition using range images professor anil jain michigan state university experiments mobile robot navigation and range imaging judd jones oak ridge national laboratory image compression professor tor ramstad university trondheim combining evidence dictionary based probabilistic relaxation professor kittler university surrey matching methods professor sanfeliu polytechnic university catalonia workshop connection with the conference workshop contextual methods pattern recognition will arranged monday iapr for further information concerning the workshop contact torfinn taxt chairman univ bergen bergen norway phone fax mail torfinn taxt uib registration information the registration fee nok the fee covers proceedings entrance all oral and poster sessions exhibition lunches and coffee breaks get together party reception and banquet fees for accompanying persons are presented the registration form all payments must made payable norwegian kroner nok swift xiannokktrm bank giro service bank account sas conference forut christiania bank kreditkasse private cheques will not accepted the following credit cards visa mastercard eurocard diners access american express please note for payment with swift and bank giro service made from abroad please add banking fee nok please remember state scia and your name all money transfers registration and information the conference secretariat will available all four days the conference for registration and information may the sas hotel may the university exhibition exhibition relevant literature will arranged publishers are invited exhibit their products visit local companies and institutions involved the field mostly remote sensing will arranged accommodation reservation for hotel accommodation can made the registration form the scia conference secretariat sas luftreisebyraa att bodil lauritsen will provide hotel accommodation for the participants social events monday may get together party included the conference fee for delegates nok for accompanying persons tuesday may fishing trip the tour will last for hours and hopefully the midnight sun will visit board the boat there will music food and drink choice bring fishing rods and will possible have our own fish prepared board nok spouse programme visit cable car storsteinen meters above sea level visit the arctic cathedral and visit tromsoe museum nok wednesday may due the cancellation the svalbard flight will arrange visit the beerhall nok including beer and food spouse programme visit fishfarm the surroundings tromsoe nok thursday may banquet included the conference fee for delegates accompanying persons nok spouse programme visit the northern lights planetarium and the polar museum nok the spouse programs need minimum participants arranged post conference tours with visit lyngen finnmark and norh cape will also arranged for more information about the social program and the post conference tours see the registration form and information included with the registration form weather and dress the weather tromsoe late may can everything from hour sunshine with maximum temperature degrees celsius snowstorms with temperatures below freezing therefore recommended bring some warmer clothes local information the population approximately tromsoe you can take part many activities from mountaineering the midnight sun late night fun international restaurants and bars afternoon local beer the beerhall the world northernmost brewery also recommended the scandinavian conference image analysis scia will held the university campus the world northernmost university there will conference buses going the campus from within walking distances all the hotels more detailed information about the locations and transport will available the conference hotels travel information tromsoe airport langnes only minutes drive from the centre tromsoe the travelling distance from oslo minutes sas conference 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comp.graphics	pov ray for vax computer get the generic version for unix and vms and build imho vms com file build supplied the distribution comes tar you should either have uncompress and tar vms unix flavoured machine handy usually you won find this ibm specific archives but the better ones brain inside andre beck abpsoft mehl andre beck irs inf dresden
comp.graphics	problems oops what the hell crosspost this have look onto before saying anything more about power brain inside andre beck abpsoft mehl andre beck irs inf dresden
comp.graphics	picture ascii conversion was wondering anyone has ever seen heard utility that converts any type image format gif tiff pcx bmp jpeg etc ascii representation have seen some very sophiticated art ascii format but never was able find the author any program that may have converted the data from picture format any help leads would great thanks advance danny dunlavy ddunlavy casbah acns nwu edu
comp.graphics	arts letters graphics editor comp graphics menchett dws unr edu peter menchetti writes does anyone this group use this program stacks pretty well corel draw and since don have cdrom was the best buy maybe someone would interested trading tips and tricks yes have both arts letters and coreldraw personally like arts letters better but there are things like about arts letters that coreldraw doesn vice versa haven found the perfect graphics program that does everything yet favorite feature from coreldraw that imports alot different formats arts letters does not like the thousands clipart available with arts letters however find looking them book and referencing them number annoying one major problems that there isn any programs available the market for the artistically deprived betty harvey harvey oasys navy mil david taylor model basin adp networking and communication assessment carderock division branch naval surface warfare code center bethesda dtmb nswc fax
comp.graphics	software development libs for old targa boards revamping some computer aided visual inspection systems which use the old targa board set cards display images from color ccd camera color monitor providing the option overlay text crosshair image capture manipulation performed just display would like know there still source for development libraries which would allow embed commands own software enable the camera draw crosshairs print text etc glad pay they are commercially available mail possible joe ryburn cim manager intergraph corporation manufacturing integration huntsville
comp.graphics	sgi sales practices was crimson was kubota announcement olson anchor esd sgi com dave olson writes but surely you don expect system you buy now for five year period constantly upgradable over that entire five year period what sort interesting about this whole thread just how much has common with similar threads groups dealing with other vendor hardware currently deal basically with hardware from vendors apple dec and sgi and thus tend monitor the groups about those vendor hardware currently seems like sgi customers are pissed sgi about dropping support for the personal iris dec customers are pissed dec for dropping mips support favor the new alpha boxes and apple customers seem get pissed every time new mac introduced that faster and cheaper than the one they just bought when used sun customer years ago remember people being pissed sun for leaving their and customers out the cold when sparc came along what really interesting that from what can tell the mis folks the basement with their don seem pissed ibm why have idea either ibm really does take care their customers better they just have their customers brainwashed better than the smaller vendors roy smith roy nyu edu hippocrates project department microbiology coles nyu school medicine first avenue new york this never happened bart simpson
comp.graphics	lcd vga display please help have ibm compatible notebook computer with lcd vga screen while was working with this morning the screen started flicker little which thought was odd since use surge protector for computer and all peripherals only did this for second and then stopped left the room for several minutes and when returned the screen was completely dim not blank but very very dim the contrast slider still worked that could adjust where could faintly make out what was the screen but the brightness slider had absolutely effect was plugged the time not using the battery but still tried switching the battery changing the power saver features etc etc all avail has anyone else experienced anything like this this just means that need replace the screen then guess have but thought that the death lcd screen would little less dramatic when eventually happened didn want take repaired before asked the net about this because already know what they say yep you gotta have this replaced and gonna cost you only had the computer for about months that reasonable life cycle for lcd display guess ought give specifics here the brand compudyne this reputable company mhz forget the model number exactly and was too ticked off write down before coming work today anyone can help please give any advice you might have not opposed having replaced but rather not not absolutely necessary you wouldn mind please mail mike mik uky edu but you rather post checking back here couple days btw the answer this question already faq somewhere feel free flame away but would ask that you also include the location and name the faq you don mind thanks advance for any help mike mattone mike mik uky edu
comp.graphics	sgi sales practices was crimson was kubota announcement article calvin nyu edu roy mchip med nyu edu roy smith writes what really interesting that from what can tell the mis folks the basement with their don seem pissed ibm why have idea either ibm really does take care their customers better they just have their customers brainwashed better than the smaller vendors mis folks have infinite budgets death and they also get parts their budget allocated upgrades maintenance and new purchases and lot ibm mainframe purchases are actually leases and the software basically the engineers who have tight budgets the coders and designers company bitch and moan when they drop sparc only see faster machine appear year later mis types upgrade once every years and their costs are amortized and depreciated over longer period and the budget office justifies the expense because they actually use the machines for accounting payroll etc now the budget office was dependant the engineers for some reason like payroll and accounts you sure hell see every engineer with new cray his desktop every year brian
comp.graphics	fractel trees working senior project here florida the project requires fractel trees interested either psuedo real code just about anything will help perhaps some good books the subject could help too mail will reach quartz iriquois eel ufl edu thanks bill devore
comp.graphics	make your mind was problems article rqisi rhj tut lehtori tut kouhia juhana writes article apr nessie mcc lilley mcc writes article rohjc avt tut lehtori tut kouhia juhana writes wrote something about making color modifications quickly with bit quantized images and only the saving the image file process have make the modifications the bit image this makes sense because the main use only viewing images doing many changes image should keep all modifications buffer and then before making the operations bit image should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations think about what you are saying here the bit image quantised down bits many similar colours are mapped onto single palette colour this colour gets modified fairly arbitrary ways you then want apply these modifications back the bit file you have find which colours mapped this one palette colour suppose you don know what about have discussed discussed about error which shows images only bit and suggestion above works perfectly with look consistent first you post something that seems suggest that you see being bit program some sort error post and asy not bug meant like that you post and say not bug you never said was have misunderstood etc now you are saying discussed about error which shows images only bit you would make your mind what you are claiming would make the discussion lot easier far have seen colormap editing window that there must colormap anyway the problems you present are exist anyway and didn tried solve them all because would not make such problems programs the first place sorry don understand what you are saying here aware that english not your native language and have tried hard fathom your meaning but this paragraph defeats gamma and color corrections are easily done bit image presented there need make tricks from bit quantized image back bit image yes originally said global changes are easily possible but this statement contradicts what you said earlier wrote something about making color modifications quickly with bit quantized images and only the saving the image file process have make the modifications the bit image how would you suggest doing colour editing bit file how would you group related colours edit them together only global changes could done unless the software were very different and much more complicated you writing about situation that user want edit images bit and user want edit individual colors your questions the way jumps off the discussion bit don think actually you were talking about loading bit image into quantising manipulating the colours the colour editor then somewhow applying these changes the bit file when you exit lets you edit individual colours where this sudden jumping off the topic solution doesn work because there colormap withing real bit image yes aware there colourmap bit file you see user see bit image going back bit silly not understand what this statement supposed mean about changing individual colors bit quantized rasterized image changing individual colors colormap useless most cases the image quantized and rasterized small change may make serious errors anywhere the image what are you saying allows this feature but don recommend use with the mentioned type images now see thew problem first you want extend allow editing bit previews bit images then point out problems with this now you are saying there problem because you personally happen not use those parts the program that cause the problem moreover not paint program you can only make those global changes not sure what you are saying here certainly one can make local changes full bit changing individual colors sounds like paint program job person have bit screen there need for tricks get the original bit image modified because user don see full bit image there need make approximations and not possible modify individual colors but individual pixels pixel groups image rasterized select indiavidual color there could cursor window which shows true color image cursor window area selecting individual color possible from that yes that one possible approach would find program that took such approach clumsy however don have thought very much bit painting programs never seen such good view and are not planned make such not mention bit painting program bit screen well here agree you have not thought through very much you don seem have consistent point make and contradict yourself from one post the next all have off days perhaps you should step back and think this one through yes again what was wrong with saved bit quantized rasterized images bit jpegs jpeg not designed for that said the last post jpeg compression algorithm way saving disk space trading off quality against compression fail see what the problem you have not proposed any workable alternatives also human expect that bit will saved bit image speak for yourself you are the only person have met spoken who having quantised bit image down bits expects this process somehow reverse when the file saved keeping all modificvations that heve been made the bit image palette perhaps that why you yused the singular say person would like crop part the image and save then expected that the image still the same look next time you import bit image into look carefully the main control panel tells you how many colours have been allocated the bit image makes abundantly clear that you are not editing the original bit file you are the only person who claims this confusing were designed without thinking about human interface and how human expect the program work design error design error the same bug read lips program for viewing and modifying bit images lets you import other images shows would say good deal thought about the human interface and everyone else seems use happily for the purpose was designed for makes false claims have heard were designed first for bit images files but were not good idea take full bit images without making major change the original design you would come with solid logical well argued and lucid description precisely how these proposed extensions would work feel free post them far you have not done even all screen images are bit the processed images and saved images could have been bit very easily instead bit argh after all this comment like that very easily ahead and code easy alternatively look the terms import and non reversible transformation before anybody will make note yes may well make lift where means that the lift goes down and down means that the lift goes and put note this design solution the manuals however even the manuals tells the correct situation doesn solve the problem americans the lift just example think this bit exageration what you are actually saying you got into lift elevator you are the states and mistakenly pressed the down button everyone else had problem now you are trying sue the manufacturer well text may bit hard reading you bet hopefully you suggeeded read mostly leaving aside the language issue however betrays some very wooly thinking you yourself admit which the same any language think some more chris lilley technical author itti computer graphics and visualisation training project computer graphics unit manchester computing centre oxford road manchester internet lilley mcc voice fax janet lilley mcc
comp.graphics	drivers for diamond viper card been away for couple weeks and have become out touch with the latest information the diamond viper card does anyone know diamond has come out with any vesa driver updates lately also was wondering what the latest windows driver version now thanks advance dan daniel hotopp internet hotopp ami bwi wec com antenna microwave integration vax tron hotopp ami westinghouse electric corp voice
comp.graphics	lcd vga display only had the computer for about months that reasonable life cycle for lcd display toshiba lcd cga died months replaced under the month warranty fortunately when died died instantly and completely
comp.graphics	surface contour plot ultrix plot surfaces and contour plots from set would really appreciate any hint the name such plotting program and where find thanks for your help
comp.graphics	full color image editor for sgi workstations happy announce the first public release the bit program interactive full color image viewer and editor based sgi besides typical touchup tasks such crop rotate smooth etc bit offers some unique features not available similar programs such text and vector support and the separation text and image the following the relevant sections from the man page pre release may bit name bit bitmap image touchup for sgi workstations description bit interactive full color image viewer and editor based silicon graphics full color program bit handles images both bits and color index natural and efficient manner image viewer bit allows list images displayed their original type bits color index any order and any the many built styles display you can walk and down the list using mouse and keyboard you can let bit the walk for you the slideshow with the pan and zoom features large images can viewed full without being limited the window screen size image editor bit performs large number image editing and processing tasks accurately and efficiently keeps information loss any stage the editing process absolute minimum performing subpixel sampling automatically while conserving the input image type whenever possible avoid unnecessary promotion and quantization input images you can also cut piece image and paste into another addition arbitrarily colored and sized text and simple geometric figures can rendered top image for annotation with the option make them part the bitmap output separately take advantage the higher printer resolutions postscript bit can also used graphical user interface many existing image processing programs defining external bindings which essence turn command line oriented programs into bit subfunctions and can accessed press button and best all the processed image will read back and displayed immediately convolution using exter nally defined matrices arbitrary order can performed dynamically giving great flexibility processing image features bit performs all its image manipulations interactively with continuous progress report and once the processing complete the processed image will displayed current features include rotates image arbitrary angle with the option anti aliasing and filling the rotated out region with arbitrary color scales image arbitrary factors and directions with the option subpixel sampling renders text arbitrary color size orientation top image with the option rendering directly into the raster saving the text and raster separately such into postscript file take advantage higher printer resolution besides normal text strings many predefined special symbols can input conveniently tex alpha small beta produces greek alphabet alpha followed slightly smaller greek alphabet beta presents graphically the histogram image performs arbitrary pixel transformation the transformation function can specified interactively and can arbitrary forms further the transformation can applied rgb channels separately simultaneously and the entire image portion many difficult tasks such thresholding can accomplished rather easily transformation combination with the avai lability graphical histograms the image places simple geometric figures sgfs arrows circles trian gles etc arbitrary color size and orientation into image arbitrary locations addressed either absolute pixels some user definable coordinate system units with the option rendering directly into the raster save the sgfs and raster separately postscript file all sgfs can scaled and directions independently simultaneously this how get ellipse from circle performs edge detection combination with image histograms and transformation very accurate result can obtained performs histogram equalization performs convolution with externally defined square matrices arbitrary order crops rectangular portion image cuts and pastes across images magnifies any portion image any amount displays list images sequence with user specifiable pause interval between images slideshow measures rgb intensities pixel any location all pixels along arbitrary line with the result presented rgb intensities intensity distance plot performs image type conversions converts image formats smoothes image special convolution filters image external programs and read the filtered image back and display modify individual pixel rgb values performs fft the entire image portion and display the resulting power spectra spray and brush paint full color unavailable this pre release supported formats iris rgb native sgi iris jpeg jfif format compuserv gif pnm portable any map including ppm pgm and pbm xbm window bitmap tiff postscript write only hardware requirements any sgi workstation that supports rgbmode including indigoes where get anonymous ftp monte svec edu pub bit bitxxx tar where xxx the version number current version read src readme for installation instructions after unpacking acknowledgement jpeg support based the independent jpeg groups library version forms library developed mark overmars used for gui both jpeg and forms library are included this release bit the program you will ever need view and annotate images the built editing features will satisfy most your editing needs addition the external filter and dynamical kernel will utilize any program you already have try and you will like always any comments bug reports are welcome
comp.graphics	stop this argument bit was make your stop stop stop stop this argument getting silly now handles bit images without quantizing them all these arguments are moot null and void please stop quibbling about now obsolete version the program besides you can now generate tons verbiage about the new shareware licensing uses instead mike mike ressler infrared photon jockey ressler cougar jpl nasa gov less science dead guys dos dos windoze dos linux finally getting something useful done with pet
comp.graphics	giant software yardsale software retail sale price graphics corel draw aldus photo styler image color photo finish these image scan paint image full pack picture publisher image prep snap pro images inc publisher paintbrush deluxe paint enchance softtype font workshop vista pro optibase workshop gfa cad utilities tree gold for win tnt anti virus salvation amish utilities multimedia smart text music clips audio tracks spinnaker plus mac spinnaker plus ask multi media make your point madison ave interface mac sound effects music bytes tempra show storyboard plus programming windows dev kit full windows maker pro top speed modula business the art negotiating telemagic full impact mac approach database ascend games nfl pro league football eco saurus hardware modem baud assorted joysticks willows vga amiga trac ball misc the wedding planner software yard sale fri sat sun mail pbenson cscihp ecst csuchico edu location nunneley paradise phone terms cash check charge visa accepted
comp.graphics	make your mind was problems article apr nessie mcc lilley cgu mcc chris lilley writes true bit you would come with solid logical well argued and lucid description precisely how these proposed extensions would work feel free post them don mind someone who would love see bit this would plenty for can load bit image and display all bit glory bit displays all other operations crop dither smooth etc are not supported bit images how hard would this ken fishkin fishkin xerox com
comp.graphics	anyone know use rayshade out there fineman stein washington edu twixt your toes writes using rayshade the computers here and like input from other users and perhaps swap some ideas could post uuencoded gifs here ray code anyone interested having trouble coming with colors that are metallic brass steel from the rgb values sorry not rayshade user but hey looks like this group could use some traffic guess that metallic isn color the rgb sense rather matter how the surface reflects light not sure what property metallic materials have that makes them recognizable such but pretty sure any color material can look metallic
comp.graphics	spline fit does anyone out there know site that might have spline fit routine useful for interpolation thanks for any help craig morioka craig cognet ucla edu
comp.graphics	what someone please fill what thanks
comp.graphics	sci files and sco files article apr daimi aau rued daimi aau writes hello there week ago guy asked what sco file was character regards rued yes why alex kiernan akiernan falcon demon
comp.graphics	tiff philosophical significance silly rak crosfield richard kirk writes the number legs centipede now you know that the number left legs both left and right dave bushong wang laboratories inc amateur radio callsign project leader recognition products ary noca internet dbushong wang com
comp.graphics	looking for info quadratic spline bezier conversion looking for algorithm pointers any papers how convert quadratic splines cubic splines beizeirs source available the public domain please let know thanks very much krishnan seetharaman mail kseethar ulowell edu phone snail mail department computer science umass lowell lowell
comp.graphics	mode does anyone know how access and display multiple pages mode while still maintaining the byte per pixel memory organization examples assembly would appreciated thanks scott
comp.graphics	viewing jpeg files there are jpeg viewers that are windows based and therefore need hardware specific drivers beyond those provided windows got mine from the library congress connection with their online exhibit books from the vatican library see previous message this newgroup about that gerald edgar gwe atc boeing com the opinions expressed this not may not represent those his employer
comp.graphics	looking for hot mac anim software mxp news udel edu stern brahms udel edu garland stern writes interested finding animation programs for the mac especially interested any programs that don exist port and are good that they would make buy mac any such exist thanks advance howdy think you would interested infini for the mac there dos windows version quite amazing program some the features bevel text timeline based animation sequencer realtime bounding box preview object linking phong shading ray tracing bounding box shading wireframe shading ghourad shading flat shading anti aliasing none low medium high environment maps quicktime support wrap movie around object procedural surfaces composed surfaces for layering surfaces alpha channel support import eps dxf and swivel files export dxf and swivel files spline based animation animation assistant for creating smooth movements and other stuff object morphing surfaces and bevels morph too and lots more that can remember right now anyway not expensive some the other animation rendering packages think you can get for around from macwarehouse they also have educational discounts well hope that helps bit see brendan duddridge internet umduddr ccu umanitoba america online brendand
comp.graphics	acm siggraph and acm general article apr koko csustan edu rsc altair csustan edu steve cunningham writes and siggraph has not skipped town preparing the best siggraph conference yet speaking siggraph just went through the ordeal annual registration for siggraph and upping membership the acm last night and was ever grossed out the new prices for membership are almost highway robbery for example siggraph basic fee went from last year this year for the same thing increase those facile enough arrange trip the annual conference could reduce this selecting siggraph lite which means siggraph charging additional for the proceedings and the art show catalog essentially toplas went cost way outstripping the current inflation rate basic sigchi fees remainded the same but whereas before sigchi membership included uist and human factors conferences proceedings these are now extra cost option bundling that back into the basic rate equivalent services have gone cost sigois membership cost has but they also split out the computer supported cooperative work conference proceedings that used included with membership adding that cost back means this sig also has doubled its membership fee what really galls that the acm sent out brochures couple months ago touting their new approach providing member services and tried make sound like they were offering new services but with the exception couple like siggraph all the plus services appear just splitting the costs into smaller piles that they don look big but their recommended changes membership would have paying more than last year for increase services measured cost not value and curiously inflation rate the publications got last year anyone out there galled this extortion robert reed home animation ltd robert slipknot rain com first court west linn shooting yourself the foot various languages and systems motif you spend days writing uil description your foot the trajectory the bullet and the intricate scrollwork the ivory handles the gun when you finally get around pulling the trigger the gun jams
comp.graphics	corel draw harvard draw larry landwehr larry ducktales med com wrote wife wants publish newsletter she artist she intends use comercial clipart and customise bit drawing circle box around etc have mspublisher for manipulating text but not suitable for doing much with graphics she needs more specialised tool right now she looking corel draw and harvard draw there seem more books the stores corel than harvard she inclined with corel the basis popularity can anyone give informed opinion which package would more suitable there even better alternative available this faq please withhold the flames and just send the location the faq document thanks with coreldraw pcmag just did review couple issues ago and adobe illustrator and coreldraw were picked the best three use clip art from harvard draw whatever for commercial purposes other two deleted far know okay you have read the licence agreement that comes with the package sure tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.graphics	company info for graphics software within the next several months looking for job computer graphics software need info graphics software companies checked the faq the resource list and siggraph org haven found anything the last computer graphics career handbook that aware was published has list companies but tremendously specific information any them can people please steer towards more current and depth informational resources thanks post summary there interest brandon the opinions expressed are not necessarily those the university north carolina chapel hill the campus office for information technology the experimental bulletin board service internet launchpad unc edu
comp.graphics	gif targa krzysztof muchorowski was asking about gif tga conversion that could use dta convert the tga files fli animation files krzysztof update your copy dta more recent release the current later versions dta can read gif files dkm
comp.graphics	universal vesa driver some time ago about month there was bit discussion about universal vesa driver for bit cards was the file uvesa zip well can find does anyone know where gorilla something something and what sort cards works for also would pushing luck ask for someone post some appropriate group kingsley turner nsw australia
comp.graphics	message for cgcad bart inescn sunil gupta ssg brunel wrote cant get through the author rtrace his site inaccessible can upload the new version somewhere else please problem solved its wuarchive graphics graphics ray rtrace why does seg fault often
comp.graphics	real heard friend who just return from nab from las vegas confirm that realsoft will releasing windows version real this summer was told that the rendering speed the isn fast however was also told that they are switching from microsoft watcom gain more speed for people who looking for powerful animation software for the wait shouldn too long real absolutely the most powerful and flexible package out there that sells for less than heard indigo version also under development
comp.graphics	source create fli flc does anyone know the source available create fli flc animations would ideally like dll for windows but would settle for source heard they might available amiga forums somewhere the libraries currently distributed autodesk aawin aaplay not have fli creation capability only playback any pointers would appreciated thanks andrew hudson abh genesis nred
comp.graphics	video speed using ibm with eisa and local bus and need get local bus video card the only hitch that need one that will allow the fastest anims flics from ram have megs ram meg simms using studio from autodesk and imagine from impulse they both write out the flc format does anyone know what would the best card for showing fast anims from ram like the orchid diamond stealth viper ati etc any help would appreciated trying circumvent the single frame route email trb msstate edu just post back here thanks
comp.graphics	what has happened dkb trearn david drum writes listserv told that the list doesn exist got global list groups from the listserv and nothing grepped every string could think frank ville saari andre beck anyone else who regular dkb can tell what going please just sent mail turgut kalfaoglu the maintainer the list and asked him what going the list for whatever reason really dead might have put list ourselves but for now want wait for his answer frank and just thought this would just another period silence
comp.graphics	help quicktime system problem unable run quicktime iivx running system and don know why there better group post this please let know quicktime works fine but when try run movie any application that supports like simple player canvas word get the message sorry system error occurred application unimplemented trap continue restart press continue and get the application unknown has unexpectedly quit because error type occurred substitute simple player canvas word for application and the messages are always the same restart with quicktime have problems any suggestions loss thanks advance yah please email don check the newsgroups very often dan bradley deb uxa cso uiuc edu
comp.graphics	fractal terrain generator does anyone know fractal terrain generator for mac something could hopefully import into program like swivel stratavision know infini has built capabilities but don have access infini downloaded two programs from umich graphics fractals but both were from and crashed under system think they were black and white anyway please email you know anything don check the newsgroups very often thanks advance dan bradley deb uxa cso uiuc edu
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic great many computer programmers read dobb journal recent issue there was paragraph article that pained greatly read said there nothing wrong microsoft setting the standards for the computer industry the industry needs ibm for the where has the hacker ethic gone not the cracker ethic which something entirely different and bad but the hacker ethic which tells value the free distribution information and yield the hands imperative why that people and corporations like bill gates ibm and intel are able have virtual dead lock the computer industry why that person like myself posts messages usenet how get into the little nooks crannies and idiosyncrasies computer system they are not given any useful information those who know just badmouthing are completely ignored why that people like steve jobs have abandon their efforts make truly innovative products ask those you who call yourselves hackers why this and further how can you let fact that the computer industry has changed the world and shall continue for long time come has allowed the propagation information volume unheard even twenty years ago and has made this world even smaller than was before shudder think what that world will like the corporations are allowed have their way perpetuating more drivel like the windows and the ibm product line the computer using public that not say against business per people who profit off innovative intelligent creative designs not bother fact applaud that the american way but those who manage sell kludgy uncreative systems the public and profit off them are the ones who are the problem and unfortunately because they have enough money make for blunt stupidity they can keep doing for very long time put you thus where has the hacker ethic gone still exists where and does exist why are those who call themselves hackers allowing this perpetuate itself why are they not creating new innovative interesting ideas stop the sos from maintaining its choke hold the computer industry await with interest what will probably resounding silence pstlb acad alaska edu revenge dish best served cold szechuan death khan singh star trek the wrath khan
comp.graphics	lcd vga display mike mattone mike mik uky edu wrote has anyone else experienced anything like this this just means that need replace the screen then guess have but thought that the death lcd screen would little less dramatic when eventually happened didn want take repaired before asked the net about this because already know what they say yep you gotta have this replaced and gonna cost you only had the computer for about months only that long time echoing above posting the way the market going nowadays your machine obsolete two weeks before you buy sounds like you have sink some money into for repair but that sometimes necessary for equipment that reasonable life cycle for lcd display think months with nothing wrong until now quite reasonable you had bought compaq toshiba you might have reasonably expected the machine last longer before something went wrong but that moot point perhaps sandy santra trevor netcom com berkeley california trevor well
comp.graphics	lcd vga display article bab llt vcd com edmoore vcd com moore writes only had the computer for about months that reasonable life cycle for lcd display toshiba lcd cga died months replaced under the month warranty fortunately when died died instantly and completely worked support for while company and had problems with several toshiba short space time they were all around years old some screens went completely above others were just dodgy this happened about out maybe they were fairly reliable then and don think was special problem with tosh link the company would think that months may not unreasonable just unlucky regards kate kate kingman cstxqbe dcs warwick leave the typos the tall blonde esudb csv warwick occupy all the bored people out there
comp.graphics	creating fli flc animation files looking for means add fli and flc animation creation windows application was hoping for something along the lines aawin aaplay autodesk but for the creation these delta compressed animations have flilib but this seems coded for the large memory model dos with turbo ideally would like dll medium model object library but would settle for anything really seen other windows apps with fli flc creation did they hack the flilib code into submission any pointers would appreciated please send mail directly and will summarize the results there interest andrew hudson abh genesis nred
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic article may aurora alaska edu pstlb aurora alaska edu writes put you thus where has the hacker ethic gone still exists where and does exist why are those who call themselves hackers allowing this perpetuate itself why are they not creating new innovative interesting ideas stop the sos from maintaining its choke hold the computer industry how about the gnu people handing out very good free software also distributed two decent sized programs myself the player fumiko ftp washington edu and the genetic neural network programmer cerebrum somewhere out there only had time write these programs because scholarships and grants the intended benefit society loophole the system peter dudey kyu lisp subguru order the golden parentheses finger reformed church james eric the half bee dipped curry shadowy flight into the dangerous world man who does not exist please mail plastic spaceships state salem
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic where did the hacker ethic hackers the and are now comfortably employed and supporting families the next generation takes the radical lead now don look for radicalism among old ones gone grady netcom com
comp.graphics	avs presentation university toronto instructional and research computing sponsoring technical presentation visualization software thursday may sandford fleming building room advanced visual systems will present this technical seminar avs the world leading visualization software package avs point and click module driven easy use product that produces full color two three dimensional rendered scenes for interactive observation supported all current unix risc platforms from sun sgi ibm and dec also runs under dec vms avs its fourth year the street and very mature all fields science engineering medicine and even business applications now use avs this seminar will focus its many features technical detail during half hour slide presentation following question period there will live demonstration using sun sparcstation addition new avs program called campus will introduced this meeting also discussed will the international avs center which provides line repository over graphics modules the north carolina supercomputer center raliegh avs has imbedded tools write one own customized modules should these not available with avs from avs international the scheduled speaker for this presentation paul ecklund ecklund associates the distributor avs canada
comp.graphics	adobe photo shop type software for unix motif platforms article world std com sci image processing comp graphics wdm world std com wayne michael writes have been searching for quality image enhancement and manipulation package for unix motif platforms that comparable adobe photo shop for the mac stuff deleted understand that adobe working making photoshop available for the sgi indigo but that just rumor and wouldn bet until see but they are going release illustrator for the sgi real soon now charles boesel diablo creative pro for and con against cboesel diablo holonet net then what the opposite progress work what else congress
comp.graphics	make your mind was problems article apr nessie mcc lilley mcc writes allows this feature but don recommend use with the mentioned type images now see thew problem first you want extend allow editing bit previews bit images then point out problems with this now you are saying there problem because you personally happen not use those parts the program that cause the problem see previous article this debate for the rests can see agree with view cases you don even say personal opinion above doesn mean that not most obvious thing please you use previous writings contradicting argument please read them you have not saw them all you just refered text from which wrote something and you make hard decisions from that without reading what exactly have written really hard read when one writes reply line line method and don understand include previously written material with the new sentences give them meaning you seem one such you also start replying articles even you don understand what going you ask repeatedly decsribe views what were wrong with even posted them within the article you did reply believe not nice get flamed specially when know that you have not read article carefully the first place and jpeg faq and users have written agree with the places you didn sure you just didn undertand what about wrote can blame writing skills english for that better stop the discussion and check what new ideas gives allready mailed one bradley juhana kouhia
comp.graphics	fractal terrain generator deb uxa cso uiuc edu daniel bradley writes does anyone know fractal terrain generator for mac something could hopefully import into program like swivel stratavision know infini has built capabilities but don have access infini downloaded two programs from umich graphics fractals but both were from and crashed under system think they were black and white anyway please email you know anything don check the newsgroups very often thanks advance dan bradley deb uxa cso uiuc edu yes have written something that creates meshed fractal terrain surfaces for exactly the purpose you require importing into modelling packages warned the data content high and brings many packages their knees use primarily for microstation but exports dxf well other formats you should you can get from ftp mirror site the wuarchive wustl edu stuff located the mirrors architec directory please ftp the readme file first paul bourke school architecture property planning pdbourke ccu auckland the university auckland private bag fax auckland new zealand paul bourke school architecture property planning pdbourke ccu auckland the university auckland private bag fax auckland new zealand
comp.graphics	direct acess video memory looking for information how directly manipulate video memory have application that would like use this for because much faster than going through the bios know that video memory ispart the system area above the first guess looking find out exactly what section memory and how layed out thanks regards gordon rogers gnr psuvm psu edu void signature void
comp.graphics	there ftp achive for usgs terrain data article apr welchgate welch jhu edu danj welchgate welch jhu edu dan jacobson writes lot interesting stuff about gopher deleted you never heard gopher don worry free and the net write note you like information how get started best luck dan jacobson danj welchgate welch jhu edu heard but lost the intro posting that came out while back could you post again think general interest ben ben olasov olasov columbia edu
comp.graphics	universal vesa driver kintur scorch apana org kingsley turner writes some time ago about month there was bit discussion about universal vesa driver for bit cards was the file uvesa zip well can find does anyone know where gorilla something something and what sort cards works for also would pushing luck ask for someone post some appropriate group kingsley turner nsw australia host swdsrv edvz univie location dos graphics file mar uvesa zip host plaza aarnet edu location micros garbo screen file apr uvesa zip location micros oak graphics file mar uvesa zip host godzilla cgl rmit location kjb mgl file mar uvesa zip host nic switch location mirror msdos graphics file mar uvesa zip location software simtel graphics file mar uvesa zip host ipc rvs uni hannover location pub msdos koeln graphics egavga file apr uvesa zip host sun urz uni heidelberg location pub msdos simtel graphics file mar uvesa zip host athene uni paderborn location pcsoft msdos graphics file mar uvesa zip host compute ncsu edu location mirrors wustl mirrors msdos graphics file mar uvesa zip host rigel acs oakland edu location pub msdos graphics file mar uvesa zip host usl edu location pub msdos video and graphics file mar uvesa zip host isfs kuis kyoto location mirrors simtel msdos graphics file mar uvesa zip file mar uvesa zip host ftp net location systems ibmpc msdos simtel graphics file mar uvesa zip lance norskog thinman netcom com data not information not knowledge not wisdom
comp.graphics	graphics software company info within few months looking for job computer graphics software need info companies that there nothing any the faq for this group and nothing siggraph org least couldn find anything the last computer graphics career handbook was dated had info companies but nothing specific any them can people please direct towards more current and detailed sources information post summary sources there interest also could you please mail our news server the fritz thanks brandon the opinions expressed are not necessarily those the university north carolina chapel hill the campus office for information technology the experimental bulletin board service internet launchpad unc edu
comp.graphics	graphics software company info believe many people will happy have this information please post the comp graphics thanks changyaw
comp.graphics	adobe photo shop type software for unix motif platforms article diablo uucp diablo uucp cboesel charles boesel writes article world std com sci image processing comp graphics wdm world std com wayne michael writes have been searching for quality image enhancement and manipulation package for unix motif platforms that comparable adobe photo shop for the mac stuff deleted understand that adobe working making photoshop available for the sgi indigo but that just rumor and wouldn bet until see but they are going release illustrator for the sgi real soon now charles boesel diablo creative pro for and con against cboesel diablo holonet net then what the opposite progress work what else congress was adobe seminar conference propaganda forum whatever you want call couple months ago where they announced that display postscript was going included the next release sun presumably solaris sun was going drop their development newsprint and return for this adobe was going port illustrator and photoshop sun other than the articles that appeared the trade journals immediately after haven heard peep about hope still the works david farley the university chicago library east street jrl dgf midway uchicago edu chicago illinois
comp.graphics	need recommendations imaging workstations need recommendations imaging workstations minimum have the following requirements high resolution graphics black and white for display fax images support the display multiple simulataneous windows fax image emulation window ibm host etc high speed network interface for image data etc token ring ethernet etc mouse any information experience would appreciated thanks car
comp.graphics	looking for polygon convexifier does anyone know where can find code which would take concave polygons and break them into set convex polygons also would like code algorithms this fact interested sources for code and algorithms that convert graphical objects into other graphical objects that will render into the same image bezier curves splines splines circular arc segments splines polgons etc michael dillon internet mpdillon halcyon halcyon com powerhouse fidonet armstrong voice canada bbs
comp.graphics	wanna scan bit colr picture bit color dpi fladbed scanner can the job for you gif tiff pcx bmp interested please write imagesyz aol com
comp.graphics	need specs for mpeg mpg file format looking for the specs for the mpg files that are floating around the alt binaries pictures groups the net please lemme know where can obtain the spec email thanks much james murray add sciences sdsu edu
comp.graphics	easy translate jpeg code article rfsqbinnc shelley washington edu stusoft hardy washington edu stuart denman writes does anyone out there have any jpeg decompression code pretty much any language that can read and understand have trouble understanding the jpeg group code that got from ftp site any one can send some good code will appreciate lot thanks the problem that the process inherently complicated the ijg code pretty good you ask and have watched through many many cycles revision try getting good book the subject that will explain the algorithms specifically jpeg still image compression standard pennebaker mitchell vnr isbn btw presume your comment about good code wasn meant sound offensive does david clunie dclunie pax tpa com
comp.graphics	ftp site for pov files know this has been asked million time but what was the ftp site carrying zips full pov source files including jack zip and kettle zip once been there but unfortunately lost the address little hurry with please mail jtheinon kruuna helsinki thanks jarkko
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic article gradyc awe netcom com grady netcom com writes where did the hacker ethic hackers the and are now comfortably employed and supporting families the next generation takes the radical lead now don look for radicalism among old ones gone and guess who here your place please finger xyzzy gnu mit edu for information you are mail news only site mail xyzzy gnu mit edu with the subject line send finger daniel drucker sxx xyzzy gnu mit edu forever forever coda und dzd vaxc hofstra edu
comp.graphics	jpeg fif specification recently got document describing the jpeg fif jfif file format was looking thru but didn get the idea how determine the size pic pixel without decoding the whole image how you get the height and width jpeg jfif how you determine wether color greyscale picture wrote small tool lsgif for gif that returns the filesize picture size and color resolution analizing the header chunks the output looks like this bla gif use this lsgif create index files archive and since jpeg are getting more and more popular would like have similar tool for jfif with output like this bla jpg please respond email because don read this news group very often post summary useful thanx advance larry lars larry michael gif murphy law lars itu sun can wrong will lsmichae informatik uni erlangen spec stud univ stellenbosch south afrika ham grad stud univ erlangen nuremberg germany irc pit
comp.graphics	fractint speedstar still looking for fractint drivers new release which supports the bit color mode the diamond speedstar there are some and million colros drivers but none work with the any help would appreciated thanks chad new sea world ohio chad cipiti shark cipiti bobcat ent ohiou edu encounter make contact cleveland freenet edu
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic perhaphs what bill gates and steve jobs are now the result the natural evolution successful hacker either you make money jail lee feldenstein just fade away that uncle and who really likes computers what computer hacker and does will change long the definition the word computer continues change james murray add sciences sdsu edu
comp.graphics	there ftp achive for usgs terrain data article columbia edu olasov columbia edu benjamin olasov writes article apr welchgate welch jhu edu danj welchgate welch jhu edu dan jacobson writes lot interesting stuff about gopher deleted you never heard gopher don worry free and the net write note you like information how get started best luck dan jacobson danj welchgate welch jhu edu heard but lost the intro posting that came out while back could you post again think general interest ben ben olasov olasov columbia edu this heavily edited modified version the gopher faq intended give people just starting with gopher enough information get client and jump into gopher space complete version can obtained described below once you have gopher client point merlot welch jhu edu and welcome gopher space dan jacobson danj welchgate welch jhu edu common questions and answers about the internet gopher client server protocol for making world wide information service with many implementations posted comp infosystems gopher comp answers and news answers every two weeks the most recent version this faq can gotten through gopher via anonymous ftp rtfm mit edu pub usenet news answers gopher faq those without ftp access should send mail mail server rtfm mit edu with send usenet news answers finding sources the body find out how ftp mail list questions the gopher faq what gopher where can get gopher software what need access gopher where are there publicly available logins for gopher who develops gopher software what the relationship between gopher and wais www ftp are papers articles describing gopher available what veronica what available for biology what gopher the internet gopher client server provides distributed information delivery system around which world campus wide information system cwis can readily constructed while providing delivery vehicle for local information gopher facilitates access other gopher and information servers throughout the world where can get gopher software via anonymous ftp boombox micro umn edu look the directory pub gopher what need access gopher you will need gopher client program that runs your local workstation there are clients for the following systems the directory following the name the location the client the anonymous ftp site boombox micro umn edu the directory pub gopher unix curses emacs pub gopher unix gopher tar xwindows athena pub gopher unix xgopher tar xwindows motif pub gopher unix moog xwindows xview pub gopher unix xvgopher macintosh hypercard pub gopher macintosh turbogopher old versions macintosh application pub gopher macintosh turbogopher dos clarkson driver pub gopher client nextstep pub gopher next cms pub gopher rice cms pub gopher viegopher vms pub gopher vms pub gopher mvs pub gopher mvs many other clients and servers have been developed others the following attempt comprehensive list microsoft windows winsock client the gopher book sunsite unc edu pub micro stuff windows winsock goph tbk zip macintosh application macgopher ftp utah edu pub gopher macintosh another macintosh application gopherapp ftp bio indiana edu util gopher gopherapp port the unix curses client for dos with tcp oac hsc uth tmc edu public dos misc dosgopher exe port the unix curses client for nfs bcm tmc edu nfs gopher exe beta version the gopher client for novell lan workplace for dos lennon itn med umich edu dos gopher vms decwindows client for use with wollongong ucx job acs ohio state edu xgopher client share note these macintosh clients require mactcp most the above clients can also fetched via gopher client itself put the following gopher server type host boombox micro umn edu port path name gopher software distribution point your gopher client boombox micro umn edu port and look the gopher directory there are also number public telnet login sites available the university minnesota operates one the machine consultant micro umn edu see for more information about this recommended that you run the client software instead logging into the public telnet login sites client uses the custom features the local machine mouse scroll bars etc local client also faster where are there publicly available logins places telnet order get taste gopher for gopher here short list use the site closest you minimize network lag telnet public logins hostname login area consultant micro umn edu gopher north america gopher uiuc edu gopher north america panda uiowa edu panda north america gopher sunet gopher europe info anu edu info australia gopher chalmers gopher sweden tolten puc gopher south america ecnet gopher ecuador gan ncc gopher japan recommended that you run the client software instead logging into the public login sites client uses the custom features the local machine mouse scroll bars etc and gives faster response furthermore many the basic features clients saving file your hard drive printing file local printer viewing images retrieving files from ftp sites etc are not available the telnet logins who develops gopher software gopher was originally developed april the university minnesota microcomputer workstation networks center help our campus find answers their computer questions has since grown into full fledged world wide information system used large number sites the world many people have contributed the project too numerous count the people behind the much the gopher software can reached via mail gopher boombox micro umn edu via paper mail internet gopher developers union minneapolis usa via fax what the relationship between gopher and wais www ftp gopher intimately intertwined with these two other systems shipped the unix gopher server has the capability search local wais indices query remote wais servers and funnel the results gopher clients query remote ftp sites and funnel the results gopher clients queried www world wide web clients either using built gopher querying using native http querying are papers articles describing gopher available gopher has whole chapter devoted the whole internet kroll reilly editors note great book out and buy bunch the internet passport northwestnet guide our world online jonathan kochmer and northwestnet published northwestnet bellevue isbn contact info passport nwnet net students guide unix harley hahn publisher mcgraw hill inc isbn other references include the internet gopher connexions july interop exploring internet gopherspace the internet society news you can subscribe the internet society news sending mail isoc nri reston the internet gopher protocol proceedings the twenty third ietf cnri section internet gopher proceedings canadian networking the internet gopher internet getting started sri international section tools help internet users discover line treasures computerworld july tcp network administration reilly balakrishan oct spigopher making spires databases accessible through the gopher protocol spires fall workshop chapel hill north carolina tomer information technology standards for libraries journal the american society for information science sept what veronica veronica very easy rodent oriented net wide index computerized archives veronica offers keyword search most gopher server menu titles the entire gopher web archie ftp archives veronica gopherspace veronica search produces menu gopher items each which direct pointer gopher data source because veronica accessed through gopher client easy use and gives access all types data supported the gopher protocol try veronica select from the other gophers menu minnesota gopher server point your gopher name veronica search menu items most gopherspace type port path veronica host futique scs unr edu what available for biology there incredible amount software data and information availble biologists now gopher here brief list the biological databases that you can search via gopher bdt tropical data base searches biotechnet buyers guide online catalogues for biology tel search protein data bank headers chlamydomonas genetics center crystallization database hgmp databases probes and primers museum paleontology type specimen index mycdb mycobacterium database search drosophila flybase indiana search genbank swiss prot pir pdb search aatdb arabidopsis thaliana database search acedb caenorhabditis elegans database search compoundkb metabolic compound database search databases welchlab vectors promoters nrl est omi search embl search genbank search genbank search genbank updates search limb search pir search pir keyword species search prosite search rebase restriction enzyme database search swiss prot search tfd search the elegans strain list search the dna database japan search the enzyme database search the graingenes database search the maize database cloning vectors plasmids phage etc epd eukaryotic promoter database est expressed sequence tag database human west expressed sequence tag database elegans kabat database proteins immunological interest nrl protein sequence structure database omim online mendelian inheritance man seqanalref sequence analysis bibliographic reference data ban search rebase restriction enzyme database search the enzyme database search the rodent section genbank database taxonomy genbank swiss prot retrieve full pdb entries accession number search for all researchers funded nih search for genome researchers funded doe search for researchers funded nsf search for researchers funded the usda mail addresses crystallographers mail addresses yeast reasearchers phonebooks around the world search and retrieve software for all computers search and retrieve macintosh software search and retrieve dos software search and retrieve gnu software search and retrieve software for biology search for agricultural software search and retrieve graphics software and data search and retrieve all online perl scripts ftp sites for biology archives for software and data and the list goes this just the beginning
comp.graphics	looking for polygon convexifier article rvpmc nwfocus com mpdillon halcyon com michael dillon writes does anyone know where can find code which would take concave polygons and break them into set convex polygons also would like code algorithms this although not offering code would like point out that any polygon triangulation code satisfies the task stated you want code partition polygon into the minimum number convex pieces doubt very much exists although algorithm known
comp.graphics	lcd vga display trevorc netcom com trevor netcom com sandy santra writes mike mattone mike mik uky edu wrote only had the computer for about months only that long time that reasonable life cycle for lcd display think months with nothing wrong until now quite reasonable you had bought compaq toshiba you might have reasonably expected the machine last longer before something went wrong but that moot point perhaps maybe had epson portable with backlit lcd since which still used daily and the screen that fine the only problem has and ever has had the arm the screen sorta lose and you bend fairly harshly the screen goes off until you wiggle round bit but other than that been perfect what that about months justin sullivan system administrator dialix services sydney modem justin sydney dialix perth
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic article pandora sdsu edu add sciences sdsu edu james murray writes perhaphs what bill gates and steve jobs are now the result the natural evolution successful hacker either you make money jail lee feldenstein just fade away that uncle and who really likes computers what computer hacker and does will change long the definition the word computer continues change perhaps you write freely available gpled unix for commonly available computer platforms machines and become catalyst for major netwide project which produces better unix like than many commercial counterparts see comp linux for details maybe you found legue for programming freedom fight restrictive litigation and software patenting practices thereby protecting the creative freedom vital continuing progress our field maybe you start gnu project and produce far and away the best compiler for unix there not mention other valuable utilities some hackers make significant contributions without selling out their ideals for bill gates after pawning grossly inferior software onto the market for ten years ever was hacker deserves have his name eradicated from the annals computer hackery for like running linux countless other packages without paying dime the other hand have problem purchasing motif other good software long microsoft hasn fouled with their inept input cents worth flames will patiently ignored jean jean liddle computer science illinois state university mail jliddle ilstu edu
comp.graphics	how can download files graphics how can find these files and graphics that people are downloading from their unix systems then how download them complete beginner this obviously please baby step through the process first all don see amongst these newsgroups where there anything remotely like gif tif compiled shareware program thanks advance for any information you can give know there unix command ftp that will allow this but first need know where find the file want download via ftp etc thomas helke egret wet uucp
comp.graphics	where can find someone who can digitize currier ives does anyone know any currier and ives etchings have been digitized for use desktop publishing particularly interested their riverboat scenes does anyone know who can get for fee good digitized river boat image thank you david dumas david dumas dmd isis msstate edu david dumas dmd isis msstate edu
comp.graphics	help needed dxf iff article apr news columbia edu cunixb columbia edu pei hsieh writes sorry this faq but are there any conversion utilities available for autodesk dxf amiga iff format checked the comp graphics faq and number sites but far banana please mail dxf can not changed over iff format what can changed object format used one the programs the amiga the only tools around are comercial for that conversion yury german blue knight bknight jpr com blue knight productions genie blue knight graphic design and video productions
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic from article may aurora alaska edu pstlb aurora alaska edu put you thus where has the hacker ethic gone still exists where and does exist why are those who call themselves hackers allowing this perpetuate itself why are they not creating new innovative interesting ideas stop the sos from maintaining its choke hold the computer industry since this was posted comp assume there angle this hacking what students when they really supposed doing something else thesis research write getting their supervisors pet programs run properly etc one gets much glory for hacking and one gets any money out producing good free software requires enormous investment time resources that not many people can want afford particularly during recession addition over the last years think there has been emphasis producing running programs research and greater emphasis more formal approaches problem solving students have been proving theorems instead writing programs conference year two ago johann kleer suggested that everyone should get back the keyboard and write more programs that demonstrate their ideas and have say inclined agree don claim superhacker but don think that invalidates remarks and sure this isn the whole story peter jackson dept electrical computer eng clarkson university opinions expressed are not those employer any other organization second violin fiddling firefighters ensemble rome branch
comp.graphics	help needed dxf iff article blue knight bknight jpr com blue knight bknight jpr com yury german writes article apr news columbia edu cunixb columbia edu pei hsieh writes sorry this faq but are there any conversion utilities available for autodesk dxf amiga iff format checked the comp graphics faq and number sites but far banana please mail dxf can not changed over iff format what can changed object format used one the programs the amiga the only tools around are comercial for that conversion hijaak claims convert dxf iff although hijaak claims some stuff that have never gotten work for example not long ago tried convert some iff files from amiga video toaster using crossdos could read the disks int targa files hijaak made some gorgeous megabyte targa files from the iffs all totally black mac mcdougald any opinions expressed herein the photography center are not necessarily actually univ tenn knoxville are almost certainly not those mac utkvx utk edu the university tennessee mac utkvx bitnet things are more like they are now fax than they ever been before
comp.graphics	tel for scanners needed hello all need make some torso scans and would like the phone numbers companies the midwest that make scans and the numbers companies that make the sanners cyberware does anyone have idea how much single scan costs and the best format save not sure what software platform will using probably either softimage wavefront think spline based format would best please forward the numbers personally having problems accessing usenet lately thanks advance patrick maun gab awiuni edvz univie paul
comp.graphics	make your mind was problems can load bit image and display all bit glory bit displays all other operations crop dither smooth etc are not supported bit images how hard would this not very you just type xloadimage getx instead
comp.graphics	modelers for unix could someone please post list good three modelers that will run sparc stations preferably cheap thanks richard rws virginia edu
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic where did the hacker ethic hackers the and are now comfortably employed and supporting families the next generation takes the radical lead now don look for radicalism among old ones gone perhaps all hackers have become ick professionals have noticed and associates progression from hackers computer professionals rather distasteful occurs when series things happen one ego outgrows one talent knowledge one financial situation takes precedence change priorities esp family possibly leading the hacker attitude makes the shift from fun work one vocation burns away the creativity needed for the hobby the biggest killer imo one dreams are sadly shattered the hard rocks society version reality without the dream the motivation dies without the motivation the effort seems useless another set problems stems from our children while most remember when there were several completely different computer systems our children are growing with just few choices msdos mac amiga and not enjoy the diversity did remember the great computer fallout the early eighties vividly was forced stop using skills developed for systems that were now dead the diversity systems before then allowed for widely divergent paradigms that period forced hackers continually learn new systems the attempt keep not mention that program was needed were forced most situations write ourselves commercial offering was just not available now our children are being taught the user mentality the number old timers dwindle are not being replaced the next generation kendall kendall sears krsear ulkyvx louisville edu programmer child development unit amiga department pediatrics currently running amigaos university louisville and supporting unix sys rev life game you play once order win you must make difference remember this not practice session
comp.graphics	what smithsonian institution ftp address does antone know the ftp address for the smithsonian institution where one can get digitized photographs etc please reply email pbenson cscihp ecst csuchico edu thanks paul benson
comp.graphics	companies involved with scientific visualization anyone has list companies doing data visualization software hardware would like hear from them thanks krs subramanian bell laboratories email krs research att com mountain murray hill
comp.graphics	help needed dxf iff blue knight bknight jpr com yury german writes dxf can not changed over iff format what can changed object format used one the programs the amiga the only tools around are comercial for that conversion actually iff format standard not picture file format sound file format but there exist several formats that use the iff standard the iff picture standard used mostly everybody form ilbm just ilbm the only iff specification know tddd which used imagine and predecessor turbo silver possible that some the other amiga packages use another iff spec but don know any lightwave will load tddd form believe christopher fury this space for rent cfury csugrad edu call quoteme for more information
comp.graphics	definition occlusion everyone don clearly understand occlusion computer graphics would you please give explanation btw what the difference between occluded surface and opaque surface thanks advance yeh usc
comp.graphics	what giinn names nerdc ufl edu lioness maple circa ufl edu writes someone please fill what thanks there review the latest wired magazine you may just want take trip the local bookstore and check out there some cool pics too haven read yet tell you more aaron hightower
comp.graphics	oak vga please needd vesa tsr simple look for vesa drivers vpic package many svga card supported look for your favorite bbs not tonight honey just received nuvotel prxfalken email teaser com pascal guillaumet teaser issy les moulineaux france
comp.graphics	jpeg image compression frequently asked questions archive name jpeg faq last modified may this faq article discusses jpeg image compression suggestions for additions and clarifications are welcome new since version april new version supports bit viewing for windows new versions dvpeg image alchemy for dos new versions image archiver pmview for new listing mgif for monochrome display ataris this article includes the following sections what jpeg why use jpeg when should use jpeg and when should stick with gif how well does jpeg compress images what are good quality settings for jpeg where can get jpeg software canned software viewers etc source code what all this hoopla about color quantization how does jpeg work what about lossless jpeg why all the argument about file formats how recognize which file format have and what about what about arithmetic coding does loss accumulate with repeated compression decompression what are some rules thumb for converting gif images jpeg sections are basic info that every jpeg user needs know sections are advanced info for the curious this article posted every weeks you can always find the latest version the news answers archive rtfm mit edu ftp fetch pub usenet news answers jpeg faq you don have ftp send mail mail server rtfm mit edu with body send usenet news answers jpeg faq many other faq articles are also stored this archive for more instructions use the archive send mail the same address with the words help and index quotes separate lines you don get reply the server may misreading your return address add line such path myname mysite specify your correct mail address reply what jpeg jpeg pronounced jay peg standardized image compression mechanism jpeg stands for joint photographic experts group the original name the committee that wrote the standard jpeg designed for compressing either full color gray scale digital images natural real world scenes does not work well non realistic images such cartoons line drawings jpeg does not handle black and white bit per pixel images nor does handle motion picture compression standards for compressing those types images are being worked other committees named jbig and mpeg respectively jpeg lossy meaning that the image you get out decompression isn quite identical what you originally put the algorithm achieves much its compression exploiting known limitations the human eye notably the fact that small color details aren perceived well small details light and dark thus jpeg intended for compressing images that will looked humans you plan machine analyze your images the small errors introduced jpeg may problem for you even they are invisible the eye useful property jpeg that the degree lossiness can varied adjusting compression parameters this means that the image maker can trade off file size against output image quality you can make extremely small files you don mind poor quality this useful for indexing image archives making thumbnail views icons etc etc conversely you aren happy with the output quality the default compression setting you can jack the quality until you are satisfied and accept lesser compression why use jpeg there are two good reasons make your image files smaller and store bit per pixel color data instead bit per pixel data making image files smaller big win for transmitting files across networks and for archiving libraries images being able compress mbyte full color file down kbytes makes big difference disk space and transmission time you are comparing gif and jpeg the size ratio more like four one more details below your viewing software doesn support jpeg directly you have convert jpeg some other format for viewing manipulating images even with jpeg capable viewer takes longer decode and view jpeg image than view image simpler format gif for instance thus using jpeg essentially time space tradeoff you give some time order store transmit image more cheaply worth noting that when network phone transmission involved the time savings from transferring shorter file can much greater than the extra time decompress the file let you the arithmetic yourself the other reason why jpeg will gradually replace gif standard usenet posting format that jpeg can store full color information bits pixel million colors instead less fewer colors you have only bit display hardware then this may not seem like much advantage you within couple years though bit gif will look obsolete black and white macpaint format does today furthermore for reasons detailed section jpeg far more useful than gif for exchanging images among people with widely varying color display hardware hence jpeg considerably more appropriate than gif for use usenet posting standard when should use jpeg and when should stick with gif jpeg not going displace gif entirely for some types images gif superior image quality file size both one the first things learn about jpeg which kinds images apply rule thumb jpeg superior gif for storing full color gray scale images realistic scenes that means scanned photographs and similar material jpeg superior even you don have bit display hardware and lot superior you see section for details gif does significantly better images with only few distinct colors such cartoons and line drawings particular large areas pixels that are all exactly the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed gif jpeg can squeeze these files much gif does without introducing visible defects this sort image best kept gif form particular single color borders are quite cheap gif files but they should avoided jpeg files jpeg also has hard time with very sharp edges row pure black pixels adjacent row pure white pixels for example sharp edges tend come out blurred unless you use very high quality setting again this sort thing not found scanned photographs but shows fairly often gif files borders overlaid text etc the blurriness particularly objectionable with text that only few pixels high you have gif with lot small size overlaid text don jpeg computer drawn images ray traced scenes for instance usually fall between scanned images and cartoons terms complexity the more complex and subtly rendered the image the more likely that jpeg will well the same goes for semi realistic artwork fantasy drawings and such plain black and white two level images should never converted jpeg you need least about gray levels before jpeg useful for gray scale images should also noted that gif lossless for gray scale images levels while jpeg not you have existing library gif images you may wonder whether you should convert them jpeg you will lose little image quality you section which argues that jpeg image quality superior gif only applies both formats start from full color original you start from gif you already irretrievably lost great deal information jpeg can only make things worse however the disk space savings may justify converting anyway this decision you have make for yourself you convert gif library jpeg see section for hints prepared leave some images gif format since some gifs will not convert well how well does jpeg compress images pretty darn well here are some sample file sizes for image have handy full color image ship harbor the first three files are for comparison purposes the rest were created with the free jpeg software described section file size bytes comments ship ppm original file ppm format compression bits bytes per pixel plus few bytes overhead ship ppm ppm file passed through unix compress compress doesn accomplish lot you note other text oriented compressors give similar results ship gif converted gif with ppmquant ppmtogif most the savings the result losing color info gif saves bits pixel not see sec ship jpg cjpeg highest useful quality setting this indistinguishable from the bit original least nonprofessional eyeballs ship jpg cjpeg default setting you have look mighty darn close distinguish this from the original even with both screen once ship jpg cjpeg this has slight defects you know what look for you could tell been jpeged without seeing the original still good image quality many recent postings usenet pictures groups ship jpg cjpeg jpeg characteristic blockiness becomes apparent this setting djpeg blocksmooth helps some still seen plenty usenet postings that were poorer image quality than this ship jpg cjpeg optimize optimize cuts table overhead blocky but perfectly satisfactory for preview indexing purposes note that this file tiny the compression ratio from the original this case jpeg can make file that factor four five smaller than gif comparable quality the file every bit good the gif better you have full color display this seems typical ratio for real world scenes what are good quality settings for jpeg most jpeg compressors let you pick file size image quality tradeoff selecting quality setting there seems widespread confusion about the meaning these settings quality does not mean keep the information some have claimed the quality scale purely arbitrary not percentage anything the name the game using jpeg pick the lowest quality setting smallest file size that decompresses into image indistinguishable from the original this setting will vary from one image another and from one observer another but here are some rules thumb the default quality setting very often the best choice this setting about the lowest you can without expecting see defects typical image try first you see defects then except for experimental purposes never above saying will produce file two three times large but hardly any better quality the image was less than perfect quality begin with you might able down without objectionable degradation the other hand you might need higher quality setting avoid further degradation the second case seems apply much the time when converting gifs jpeg the default about right for compressing bit images but usually better for converting gifs see section for more info you want very small file say for preview indexing purposes and are prepared tolerate large defects setting the range about right may amusing art note the quality settings discussed this article apply the free jpeg software described section and many programs based other jpeg implementations such image alchemy may use completely different quality scale some programs don even provide numeric scale just high medium low style choices where can get jpeg software most the programs described this section are available ftp you don know how use ftp see the faq article how find sources you don have direct access ftp read about ftpmail servers the same article that article appears regularly news answers you can get sending mail mail server rtfm mit edu with send usenet news answers finding sources the body the anonymous ftp list faq may also helpful usenet news answers ftp list faq the news answers archive note this list changes constantly you have copy more than couple months old get the latest jpeg faq from the news answers archive you are looking for canned software viewers etc the first part this list system specific programs that only run one kind system you don see what you want for your machine check out the portable jpeg software described the end the list note that this list concentrates free and shareware programs that you can obtain over internet but some commercial programs are listed too windows shareware excellent viewer for jpeg gif and many other image formats can also format conversion and some simple image manipulations available for ftp from export lcs mit edu file contrib tar version major upgrade with support for bit displays and many other improvements however brand new and still has some bugs lurking you prefer not the bleeding edge stick with version also available from export note that version not good choice you have bit display you get only bit color nor for converting bit images jpeg but works fine for converting gif and other bit images jpeg caution there glitch version sure check the save normal size checkbox when saving jpeg file the file will blurry another good choice for windows john cristy free imagemagick package also available from export lcs mit edu file contrib imagemagick tar this package handles many image processing and conversion tasks the imagemagick viewer handles bit displays correctly for colormapped displays does better though slower color quantization than the basic free jpeg software both the above are large complex packages you just want simple image viewer try xloadimage xli xloadimage supports jpeg its latest release xloadimage free and available from export lcs mit edu file contrib xloadimage tar xli variant version xloadimage said its fans somewhat faster and more robust than the original the current xli indeed faster and more robust than the current xloadimage least with respect jpeg files because has the ijg decoder while xloadimage using hacked over the next xloadimage release will fix this xli also free and available from export lcs mit edu file contrib xli tar both programs are said the right thing with bit displays dos this covers plain dos for windows programs see the next headings one good choice eric praetzel free dvpeg which views jpeg and gif files the current version available ftp from sunee uwaterloo file pub jpeg viewers dvpeg zip this good basic viewer that works either machines the user interface not flashy but functional another freeware jpeg gif tga viewer mohammad rezaei hiview the current version available from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics zip hiview requires better cpu and vcpi compatible memory manager qemm and max work windows and not hiview currently the fastest viewer for images that are bigger than your screen for larger images scales the image down fit the screen rather than using panning scrolling most viewers you may may not prefer this approach but there denying that slows down loading large images considerably note installation bit tricky read the directions carefully shareware alternative colorview for dos this easier install than either the two freeware alternatives its user interface also much spiffier looking although personally find harder use more keystrokes inconsistent behavior faster than dvpeg but little slower than hiview least hardware for images larger than screen size dvpeg and colorview seem about the same speed and both are faster than hiview the current version available from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics dcview zip requires vesa graphics driver you don have one look vesadrv zip vesa tsr zip from the same directory many recent pcs have built vesa driver don try load vesa driver unless colorview complains that the driver missing second shareware alternative fullview which has been kicking around the net for while but don know any stable archive location for the current rather old version inferior the above viewers anyway the author tells that new version fullview will out shortly and will submitted the simtel archives that time the well known gif viewer compushow cshow supports jpeg its latest revision however cshow jpeg implementation isn very good slow about half the speed the above viewers and image quality poor except color displays too bad have been nice see good jpeg capability cshow shareware available from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos gif cshw zip due the remarkable variety graphics hardware any one these viewers might not work your particular machine you can get any them work you need use one the following conversion programs convert jpeg gif then view with your favorite gif viewer you have color hardware don use gif the intermediate format try find targa capable viewer instead vpic reputed the right thing with color displays the independent jpeg group free jpeg converters are ftpable from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics jpeg zip jpeg zip you have and extended memory these files are dos compilations the free source code described section they will convert jpeg and from gif targa and ppm formats handmade software offers free jpeg gif conversion tools gif jpg jpg gif these are slow and are limited conversion and from gif format particular you can get bit color output from jpeg the major advantage these tools that they will read and write hsi proprietary jpeg format well the usenet standard jfif format since hsi format files are rather widespread bbses this useful capability version these tools free prior versions were shareware get from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics gif jpg zip note not use hsi format for files posted internet since not readable non platforms handmade software also has shareware image conversion and manipulation package image alchemy this will translate jpeg files both jfif and hsi formats and from many other image formats can also display images demo version image alchemy version available from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics alch zip note about simtel the internet key archive site for related programs simtel full name wsmr simtel army mil simtel runs non unix system with weird directory names where this document refers directory msdos graphics simtel that really means msdos graphics you are not physically milnet you should expect rather slow ftp transfer rates from simtel there are several internet sites that maintain copies mirrors the simtel archives most ftp users should one the mirror sites instead popular usa mirror site oak oakland edu which keeps simtel files pub msdos graphics you have ftp capability you can retrieve files from simtel mail see informational postings comp archives msdos announce find out how you are outside the usa consult the same newsgroup learn where your nearest simtel mirror microsoft windows there are several windows programs capable displaying jpeg images windows viewers are generally slower than dos viewers the same hardware due windows system overhead note that you can run the dos conversion programs described above inside windows dos window the newest entry winecj which free and extremely fast version available from ftp rahul net file pub bryanw jpeg wecj zip requires windows and more colors mode this frills viewer with the bad habit hogging the machine completely while decodes and the image quality noticeably worse than other viewers but fast you use anyway least for previewing jview freeware fairly fast has good line help and can write out the decompressed image windows bmp format but can create new jpeg files and doesn view gifs jview also lacks some other useful features the shareware viewers such brightness adjustment but excellent basic viewer the current version available from ftp cica indiana edu file pub win desktop jview zip mirrors this archive can found some other internet sites including wuarchive wustl edu winjpeg shareware displays jpeg gif targa tiff and bmp image files can write all these formats too can used converter has some other nifty features including color balance adjustment and slideshow the current version available from simtel and mirror sites see note above file msdos windows winjp zip this slow compatible version you register you get the only version which roughly faster colorview another shareware entry this was early and promising contender but has not been updated some time and this point has real advantages over winjpeg you want try anyway the current version available from ftp cica indiana edu file pub win desktop cview zip understand that new version will appearing once the authors are finished with colorview for dos dvpeg see dos heading also works under windows but only full screen mode not window the following files are available from hobbes nmsu edu note check pub uploads for more recent versions the hobbes moderator not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories pub graphics jpegv zip bit version free ijg conversion programs version pub all graphics jpeg zip bit version same for pub graphics imgarc zip image archiver image conversion viewing with graphical interface strong conversion functions viewing bit weaker shareware pub graphics pmjpeg zip pmjpeg port winjpeg popular viewer for windows see description windows section shareware pub graphics pmview zip pmview jpeg gif bmp viewer gif viewing very fast jpeg viewing fast you have huge amounts ram otherwise about the same speed the above programs strong bit display support shareware macintosh most mac jpeg programs rely apple jpeg implementation which part the quicktime system extension you need have quicktime installed use quicktime you need better cpu and you need running system later you running system you must also install the bit quickdraw extension this built system you can get quicktime ftp from ftp apple com file dts mac quicktime quicktime hqx this file contains quicktime which better than several ways with respect jpeg marginally faster and considerably less prone crash when fed corrupt jpeg file however some applications seem have compatibility problems with mac users should keep mind that quicktime jpeg format pict jpeg not the same the usenet standard jfif jpeg format see section for details you post images usenet make sure they are jfif format most the programs mentioned below can generate either format the first choice probably jpegview free program for viewing images that are jfif format pict jpeg format gif format also can convert between the two jpeg formats the current version big improvement over prior versions get from sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app jpeg view hqx requires system and quicktime bit displays jpegview usually produces the best color image quality all the currently available mac jpeg viewers jpegview can view large images much less memory than other mac viewers fact the only one that can deal with jpeg images much over pixels typical mac given large image jpegview automatically scales down fit the screen rather than presenting scroll bars like most other viewers you can zoom any desired portion though some people like this behavior some don overall jpegview user interface very well thought out gifconverter shareware image viewer converter supports jfif and pict jpeg well gif and several other image formats the latest version get from sumex aim stanford edu file info mac art gif gif converter hqx requires system later gifconverter not better than jpegview plain jpeg gif viewer but has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion capabilities you may find worth its shareware fee you lot playing around with images also the newest version gifconverter can load and save jfif images without quicktime your best bet your machine too old run quicktime but faster with quicktime note gifconverter runs out memory trying load large jpeg try converting the file gif with jpeg convert then viewing the gif version jpeg convert mac version the free ijg jpeg conversion utilities available from sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app jpeg convert hqx this will run any mac but only does file conversion not viewing you can use conjunction with any gif viewer previous versions this faq recommended imagery jpeg jpeg gif converter based old version the ijg code you are using this program you definitely should replace with jpeg convert apple free program pictpixie can view images jfif quicktime jpeg and gif format and can convert between these formats you can get pictpixie from ftp apple com file dts mac quicktime stuff pictpixie hqx requires quicktime pictpixie was intended developer tool and really not the best choice unless you like fool around with quicktime some its drawbacks are that requires lots memory produces relatively poor color image quality anything less than bit display and has relatively unfriendly user interface worse pictpixie unsupported program meaning has some minor bugs that apple does not intend fix there old version pictpixie called pictcompressor floating around the net you have this you should trash even buggier also the quicktime starter kit includes much cleaned descendant pictpixie called picture compressor note that picture compressor not free and may not distributed the net storm technology picture decompress free jpeg viewer converter this rather old program inferior the above programs many ways but will run without system quicktime you may forced use older systems does need bit quickdraw really old machines can use you can get from sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app picture decompress hqx you must set the file type downloaded image file jpeg allow picture decompress open your machine too old run bit quickdraw mac plus for instance gifconverter your only choice for single program jpeg viewing you don want pay for gifconverter use jpeg convert and free gif viewer more and more commercial mac applications are supporting jpeg although not all can deal with the usenet standard jfif format adobe photoshop version later can read and write jfif format jpeg files use the jpeg plug from the acquire menu you must set the file type downloaded jpeg file jpeg allow photoshop recognize amiga most programs listed this section are stored the aminet archive amiga physik unizh there are many mirror sites this archive and you should try use the closest one the usa good choice wuarchive wustl edu look under mirrors amiga physik unizh hamlab plus excellent jpeg viewer converter well being general image manipulation tool cheap shareware and can read several formats besides jpeg the current version demo version available from amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx edit hamlab lha the demo version will crop images larger than but otherwise fully functional rend shareware image renderer that can display jpeg ilbm and gif images the program can used create animations even capturing frames the fly from rendering packages like lightwave the current version available from amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx rend lha note although this directory supposedly for amigados programs the program will also run under amigados viewtek free jpeg ilbm gif anim viewer the current version available from amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx show viewtek lha you willing spend real money there are several commercial packages that support jpeg two are written thomas krehbiel the author rend and viewtek these are cinemorph standalone image morphing package and imagefx impressive bit image capture conversion editing painting effects and prepress package that also includes cinemorph both are distributed great valley products art department professional adpro from asdg inc the most widely used commercial image manipulation software for amigas imagemaster from black belt systems another well regarded commercial graphics package with jpeg support the free ijg jpeg software available compiled for amigas from amiga physik unizh and mirror sites directory amiga gfx conv file amigajpegv lha these programs convert jpeg from ppm gif targa formats the amiga world heavily infested with quick and dirty jpeg programs many based ancient beta test version the free ijg jpeg software thanks certain magazine that published same its disk the month without much notifying the authors among these are augjpeg newamyjpeg vjpeg and probably others have not even heard opinion anything older than ijg version march not worth the disk space stored you have such program trash and get something newer atari the free ijg jpeg software available compiled for atari etc from atari archive umich edu file atari graphics jpeg bin zoo these programs convert jpeg from ppm gif targa formats for monochrome monitors try mgif which manages achieve four level grayscale effect flickering version reads jpeg files available from atari archive umich edu file atari graphics mgif zoo have not heard any other free shareware jpeg capable viewers for ataris but surely there must some now pointers appreciated acorn archimedes changefsi supplied with risc version can convert from and view jpeg jfif format provision also made convert images jpeg although this must done from the cli rather than double clicking recent versions since the shareware program translator can handle jpeg along with about other image formats while older versions can found some archimedes bboards the current version only available registering with the author john kortink nutterbrink enschede the netherlands price dutch guilders about pounds there also commercial product called jpeg which provides jpeg read write functionality and direct jpeg viewing well host other image format conversion and processing options this more expensive but not necessarily better than the above programs contact software freepost cambridge tel portable software for almost any system none the above fits your situation you can obtain and compile the free jpeg conversion software described you also need viewer program your display bits less any gif viewer will fine you have display with more color capability try find viewer that can read targa ppm bit image files there are numerous commercial jpeg offerings with more popping every day recommend that you not spend money one these unless you find the available free shareware software vastly too slow that case purchase hardware assisted product ask pointed questions about whether the product complies with the final jpeg standard and about whether can handle the jfif file format many the earliest commercial releases are not and never will compatible with anyone else files you are looking for source code work with free portable code for jpeg compression available from the independent jpeg group which lead package containing our source code documentation and some small test files available from several places the official archive site for this source code ftp net look under directory graphics jpeg the current release jpegsrc tar this compressed tar file don forget retrieve binary mode you can retrieve this file ftp uucp you are and don know how cope with tar format you may prefer zip format which you can find simtel and mirror sites see note above file msdos graphics jpegsrc zip this file will also available compuserve the graphsupport forum pics library jpsrc zip you have ftp access you can retrieve the source from your nearest comp sources misc archive version appeared issues volume you don know how retrieve comp sources misc postings see the faq article how find sources referred the top section the free jpeg code provides conversion between jpeg jfif format and image files gif pbmplus ppm pgm utah rle and truevision targa file formats the core compression and decompression modules can easily reused other programs such image viewers the package highly portable have tested many machines ranging from pcs crays have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use companies are welcome use the basis for jpeg related products not ask royalty although ask for acknowledgement product literature see the readme file the distribution for details hope make this software industrial quality although with anything that free offer warranty and accept liability the independent jpeg group volunteer organization you like contribute improving our software you are welcome join what all this hoopla about color quantization most people don have full color bit per pixel display hardware typical display hardware stores fewer bits per pixel can display fewer distinct colors time display full color image the computer must map the image into appropriate set representative colors this process called color quantization this something misnomer color selection would better term stuck with the standard usage though clearly color quantization lossy process turns out that for most images the details the color quantization algorithm have much more impact the final image quality than any errors introduced jpeg except the very lowest jpeg quality settings since jpeg full color format converting color jpeg image for display bit less hardware requires color quantization this true for all color jpegs even you feed less color gif into jpeg what comes out the decompressor not colors but thousands colors this happens because jpeg lossiness affects each pixel little differently two pixels that started with identical colors will probably come out with slightly different colors each original color gets smeared into group nearby colors therefore quantization always required display color jpeg colormapped display regardless the image source the only way avoid quantization ask for gray scale output incidentally because this effect nearly meaningless talk about the number colors used jpeg image even you attempted count the number distinct pixel values different jpeg decoders would give you different results because roundoff error differences occasionally see posted images described color jpeg this tells that the poster hasn read this faq and probably converted the jpeg from gif jpegs can classified color gray scale just like photographs but number colors just isn useful concept for jpeg the other hand gif image definition has already been quantized fewer colors gif does have definite number colors its palette and the format doesn allow more than palette entries for purposes usenet picture distribution gif has the advantage that the sender precomputes the color quantization recipients don have this also the disadvantage gif you stuck with the sender quantization the sender quantized different number colors than what you can display you have quantize resulting much poorer image quality than you had quantized once from full color image furthermore the sender didn use high quality color quantization algorithm you out luck for this reason jpeg offers the promise significantly better image quality for all users whose machines don match the sender display hardware jpeg full color image can quantized precisely match the user display hardware furthermore you will able take advantage future improvements quantization algorithms there lot active research this area purchase better display hardware get better view jpeg images you already have with gif you stuck forevermore with what was sent also worth mentioning that many gif viewing programs include rather shoddy quantization routines you view color gif color ega display for example you are probably getting much worse image than you need this partly inevitable consequence doing two color quantizations one create the gif one display but often also due sloppiness jpeg conversion programs will forced use high quality quantizers order get acceptable results all and normal use they will quantize directly the number colors displayed thus jpeg likely provide better results than the average gif program for low color resolution displays well high resolution ones finally ever growing number people have better than bit display hardware already bit color displays true bit displays workstations and macintoshes etc for these people gif already obsolete cannot represent image the full capabilities their display jpeg images can drive these displays much more effectively thus jpeg all around better choice than gif for representing images machine independent fashion how does jpeg work the buzz words know are chrominance subsampling discrete cosine transforms coefficient quantization and huffman arithmetic entropy coding this article long enough already not going say more than that here for technical information see the comp compression faq this available from the news answers archive rtfm mit edu files pub usenet news answers compression faq part you need help using the news answers archive see the top this article what about lossless jpeg there great deal confusion this subject the jpeg committee did define truly lossless compression algorithm one that guarantees the final output bit for bit identical the original input however this lossless mode has almost nothing common with the regular lossy jpeg algorithm and offers much less compression present very few implementations lossless jpeg exist and all them are commercial saying the free jpeg software does not get you lossless image what does get rid deliberate information loss the coefficient quantization step there still good deal information loss the color subsampling step with the free jpeg code you can also say sample turn off subsampling keep mind that many commercial jpeg implementations cannot cope with the resulting file even with both quantization and subsampling turned off the regular jpeg algorithm not lossless because subject roundoff errors various calculations the maximum error few counts any one pixel value highly unlikely that this could perceived the human eye but might concern you are doing machine processing image this minimum loss setting regular jpeg produces files that are perhaps half the size uncompressed bit per pixel image true lossless jpeg provides roughly the same amount compression but guarantees bit for bit accuracy you have application requiring lossless storage images with less than bits per pixel per color component you may want look into the jbig bilevel image compression standard this performs better than jpeg lossless such images jpeg lossless superior jbig images with more bits per pixel furthermore jpeg public domain least with huffman back end while the jbig techniques are heavily covered patents why all the argument about file formats strictly speaking jpeg refers only family compression algorithms does not refer specific image file format the jpeg committee was prevented from defining file format turf wars within the international standards organizations since can actually exchange images with anyone else unless agree common file format this leaves with problem the absence official standards number jpeg program writers have just gone off their own thing and result their programs aren compatible with anybody else the closest thing have facto standard jpeg format some work that been coordinated people cube microsystems they have defined two jpeg based file formats jfif jpeg file interchange format low end format that transports pixels and not much else tiff jpeg aka tiff extension the aldus tiff format tiff high end format that will let you record just about everything you ever wanted know about image and lot more besides tiff lot more complex than jfif and may well prove less transportable because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different and incompatible subsets tiff not likely that adding jpeg the mix will anything improve this situation both these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors jpeg related products reasonably likely that future commercial products will adhere one both standards believe that usenet should adopt jfif the replacement for gif picture postings jfif simpler than tiff and available now the tiff spec has only recently been officially adopted and still unusably vague some crucial details even when tiff jpeg well defined the jfif format likely widely supported lowest common denominator tiff jpeg files may never transportable particular case that people may interested apple quicktime software for the macintosh quicktime uses jfif compatible format wrapped inside the mac specific pict structure conversion between jfif and quicktime jpeg pretty straightforward and several mac programs are available see mac portion section you have editor that handles binary files you can strip quicktime jpeg pict down jfif hand see section for details another particular case handmade software programs gif jpg jpg gif and image alchemy these programs are capable reading and writing jfif format default though they write proprietary format developed hsi this format not readable any non hsi programs and should not used for usenet postings use the switch get jfif output this applies old versions these programs the current releases emit jfif format default you still should careful not post hsi format files unless you want get flamed people non platforms how recognize which file format have and what about you have alleged jpeg file that your software won read likely hsi format some other proprietary jpeg based format you can tell what you have inspecting the first few bytes the file jfif standard file will start with the characters hex followed two variable bytes often hex followed jfif you see the start but not the rest you may have raw jpeg file this probably decodable jfif software worth try anyway hsi files start with hsi you out luck unless you have hsi software portions the file may look like plain jpeg data but they won decompress properly with non hsi programs macintosh pict file jpeg compressed will have couple hundred bytes header followed jfif header scan for jfif strip off everything before the and you should able read anything else proprietary format not jpeg all you are lucky the file may consist header and raw jpeg data stream you can identify the start the jpeg data stream look for try stripping off everything before that uuencoded usenet postings the characteristic jfif pattern begin line whereas uuencoded hsi files will start with begin line you learn check for the former you can save yourself the trouble downloading non jfif files what about arithmetic coding the jpeg spec defines two different back end modules for the final output compressed data either huffman coding arithmetic coding allowed the choice has impact image quality but arithmetic coding usually produces smaller compressed file typical images arithmetic coding produces file percent smaller than huffman coding all the file size numbers previously cited are for huffman coding unfortunately the particular variant arithmetic coding specified the jpeg standard subject patents owned ibm and mitsubishi thus you cannot legally use arithmetic coding unless you obtain licenses from these companies the fair use doctrine allows people implement and test the algorithm but actually storing any images with dubious best least the short run recommend that people not worry about arithmetic coding the space savings isn great enough justify the potential legal hassles particular arithmetic coding should not used for any images exchanged usenet there some small chance that the legal situation may change the future stay tuned for further details does loss accumulate with repeated compression decompression would nice having compressed image with jpeg you could decompress manipulate crop off border say and recompress without any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially unfortunately this not the case general recompressing altered image loses more information though usually not much was lost the first time around the next best thing would that you decompress image and recompress without changing then there further loss you get identical jpeg file even this not true least not with the current free jpeg software essentially problem accumulation roundoff error you repeatedly compress and decompress the image will eventually degrade where you can see visible changes from the first generation output usually takes many such cycles get visible change one the things our list see accumulation error can avoided limited but not optimistic about any case the most that could possibly guaranteed would that compressing the unmodified full color output djpeg the original quality setting would introduce further loss even such simple changes cropping off border could cause further roundoff error degradation you wondering why because the pixel block boundaries move you cropped off only multiples pixels you might safe but that mighty limited capability the bottom line that jpeg useful format for archival storage and transmission images but you don want use intermediate format for sequences image manipulation steps use lossless format ppm rle tiff etc while working the image then jpeg when you are ready file away aside from avoiding degradation you will save lot compression decompression time this way what are some rules thumb for converting gif images jpeg stated earlier you will lose some amount image information you convert existing gif image jpeg you can obtain the original full color data the gif was made from far better make jpeg from that but you need save space and have only the gif work from here are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum loss quality the first rule when converting gif library look each jpeg make sure you are happy with before throwing away the corresponding gif that will give you chance the conversion with higher quality setting necessary some gifs may better left gifs explained section particular cartoon type gifs with sixteen fewer colors don convert well you may find that jpeg file reasonable quality will larger than the gif check the sizes too experience date suggests that large high visual quality gifs are the best candidates for conversion jpeg they chew the most storage offer the most potential savings and they convert jpeg with least degradation don waste your time converting any gif much under kbytes also don expect jpeg files converted from gifs small those created directly from full color originals maintain image quality you may have let the converted files much twice big straight through jpeg files would shoot for the size the gif file not suggested earlier comparisons many people have developed odd habit putting large constant color border around gif image while useless this was nearly free terms storage cost gif files not free jpeg files and the sharp border boundary can create visible artifacts ghost edges yourself favor and crop off any border before jpeging you are windows system manual and automatic cropping functions are very painless way this cjpeg default setting appropriate for full color input but for gif inputs settings often seem necessary avoid image degradation you apply smoothing suggested below the higher setting may not necessary color gifs photographs complex artwork are usually dithered fool your eye into seeing more than the colors that gif can actually store you enlarge the image you will see that adjacent pixels are often significantly different colors normal size the eye averages these pixels together produce the illusion intermediate color value the trouble with dithering that jpeg looks like high spatial frequency color noise and jpeg can compress noise very well the resulting jpeg file both larger and lower image quality than what you would have gotten from jpeging the original full color image you had get around this you want smooth the gif image before compression smoothing averages together nearby pixels thus approximating the color that you thought you saw anyway and the process getting rid the rapid color changes that give jpeg trouble appropriate use smoothing will often let you avoid using high factor thus further reducing the size the compressed file while still obtaining better looking output image than you get without smoothing with the free jpeg software products based simple smoothing capability built try smooth when converting gifs values seem work well for high quality gifs heavy handed dithering may require larger smoothing factors you can see regular fine scale patterns the gif image even without enlargement then strong smoothing definitely called for too large smoothing factor will blur the output image which you don want you are image processing wizard you can also smoothing with separate filtering program such pnmconvol from the pbmplus package however cjpeg built smoother lot faster than pnmconvol the upshot all this that cjpeg quality smooth probably good starting point for converting gifs but you really care about the image you want check the results and maybe try few other settings for more information about jpeg general the free jpeg software particular contact the independent jpeg group jpeg info uunet net tom lane organizer independent jpeg group internet tgl cmu edu bitnet tgl cmu edu carnegie
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic kendall opusii sears krsear ulkyvx louisville edu wrote the biggest killer imo one dreams are sadly shattered the hard rocks society version reality without the dream the motivation dies without the motivation the effort seems useless actually there are more possibilities one that with practice the hacker has become good and powerful manipulating data streams that goes simply underground possessing true power perhaps there need impress anyone with grady netcom com
comp.graphics	adobe photo shop type software for unix motif platforms appsoft image available for nextstep image processing program similar adobe photoshop reviewed the april issue publish magazine richardt
comp.graphics	adobe photo shop type software for unix motif platforms charles boesel writes article world std com sci image processing comp graphics wdm world std com wayne michael writes have been searching for quality image enhancement and manipulation package for unix motif platforms that comparable adobe photo shop for the mac stuff deleted understand that adobe working making photoshop available for the sgi indigo but that just rumor and wouldn bet until see but they are going release illustrator for the sgi real soon now illustrator for sgi shipping product adobe and sgi have announced that photoshop being ported sgi machines simillar announcement has been made adobe and sun for sun platforms dates have been announced the best knowledge zalman stern zalman adobe com adobe systems charleston pob mountain view just couple joyful little pervo goats akbar jeff
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic more cheerful note perhaps hackerism hacking isn completely dead someone else said take the gnu offerings for example free redistributable and often better than the commercial stuff take also the number papers published every year all the fields computer science the vast majority these papers detail original work real often exceptional merit and the authors are sharing this knowledge have fun roddi
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic think the main reason that the good old hacker days the young gates and jobs the world the computer was not widespread phenomenom now with the increased popularity the come plethora mundane business uses which required more practical minded and narrower focused programmers why hacker when you can get good job programming databases programs for accountants basically the yuppies caught and disciplined the hackers and molded them their own image carl christensen dept computer science christen astro ocis temple edu temple university curiouser and curiouser philadelphia usa
comp.graphics	wanted rendering lib for does any one know decent quality library routines for performing graphics modelling the ideally the routines would embeded our application program requirements wish list flat surface modelling simple phong shading optional ability plot hidden line drawings texture mapping both procedural and bit map modeling light sources local distant and spot lights ray tracing radiosity optional any comments would appreciated john chinnick jchinnic mach wlu phone john chinnick jchinnic mach wlu
comp.graphics	vesa driver for xga heard that there vesa driver for the xga card available compuserve just got this card and wondering this driver available ftp site anywhere news service has beeen erratic lately please mail walsh stolaf edu thanks advance
comp.graphics	help with world screen transfomation matrix need help creating perspective matrix like use this for transforming some texture mapping code got from graphics gems have many books which talk about this but none them simple plain english you have graphics gems talking about page like have perspective matrix that handles different field views and aspect course thank for your help yes course everything say personal opinion robert kyanko rob rjck oau org rob rjck uucp
comp.graphics	access bus access bus software creator contest intro access bus the access bus software creator contest announcement what access bus access bus new open industry standard for computer peripheral connectivity access bus serial protocol that uses simple low cost technology link multiple devices single port peripheral devices such keyboards keypads locators mice trackballs joysticks printers gloves digitizers sensors actuators data transmitters and others can easily daisy chained the host applications such cad cam data acquisition simulation virtual reality multiple player single games education and many many more can now take advantage access bus the technology that puts plug and play every the access bus offers advantages end users and developers systems and peripherals multiple devices connect the host computer with only one port common communication methods for number device types lead simplified hardware and software development open standard access bus enables cross platform use the same device access bus technological description access bus technology open specification enabling anyone implement host systems peripheral devices without fee royalty access bus has bus topology architecture that single host can accommodate peripheral devices access bus data rate kbits sec access bus physical layer access bus serial bus architecture based hardware protocol with one data line and one clock line standard low cost microcontrollers handle bit level handshaking including automatic arbitration and clock synchronization access bus software protocols the access bus communication protocol composed three levels protocol base protocol and application protocol protocol this simple and efficient protocol defines arbitration among contending masters without losing data provides for cooperative synchronization bus partners with different clock rates bus transactions include addressing framing bits into bytes and byte acknowledgment the receiver base protocol establishes the asymmetrical interconnect between host computer and multiple peripherals the host becomes the access bus manager the base protocol defines the format access bus message envelope which bus transaction with additional semantics including checksum unique features the base protocol are auto addressing and hot plugging auto addressing assigns devices with unique bus addresses without the need for setting jumpers switches hot plugging the ability attach and detach devices while the system running without rebooting application protocol this the highest level the access bus protocol which defines message semantics specific particular types devices each type requires different application protocol three broad device types have been identified keyboards locators and text devices access bus support the all three levels the access bus protocol are supported the add card implements the physical layer and uses the base protocol communicate with physical access bus devices access bus manager tsr under dos and dll under windows controls the operation the physical layer and interacts with the access bus device drivers drivers are available for multiple access bus keyboards locators and printers for dos and windows also available are language source code examples the interface from applications the device drivers contact abig the access bus industry group postal address altair way suite sunnyvale internet email abig netcom com fax voice
comp.graphics	call for papers for informatika vol this invitation send articles the informatica magazine the first fully international issue has been published and echoes are quite favourable for any information contact matjaz gams ijs dear colleague april number volume informatica now out print and some you will receive week you will see the journal structured the following way the editorial first page profiles second page biography editor this issue terry winograd the edited part papers mission and research reports plan for knowledge archives project japan and csli stanford and news and announcements this structure mentioned give you suggestion how could you help make the contents the journal significant diverse and interesting bringing your own views into the discourse great emphasis given the called editorial page this page expresses opinion belief the writing editor some problems within the scope computing and informatics extending into other concerning disciplines cybernetics advanced cognitive sciences mind informationally concerned neural sciences advanced technology photonics etc asked professor terry winograd write this page for number certainly would appreciate very much get suggestions possible offers from other editors who like express their strong directed beliefs concerning future development the area question the second page each number editor profile published the aim the profile twofold show his her professional achievements interests scientific and philosophical orientation one side narrate his her life story the environments which editors has lived and live the other side this kind story should instructive adequately factically faced contributing the understanding circumstances which editors have act and live the edited part edited papers still critical would like have stock accepted papers advance the issuing dates particular number can fixed january april july and october situation right now ask you help with contributions yours your colleagues collaborators students etc some critical views the contemporary development computing and informatics are appreciated special emphasis should given also originality which fresh ideas are coming into the circulation different professional communities reports different occasions symposia conferences meetings etc and particularly new books papers and interesting events are welcome you can send these news immediately also your secretary mail the other hand you can send books and other publications annual reports journals calls for papers etc for reviewing and publishing informatica the editorial staff will manage the rest mail functioning satisfactorily please use every respect you can submit editorial notes profiles reports news and even complete papers written standard latex format especially formulas received several final corrected texts number from different sites russia etc this way you can compose reports from already typed texts using your own choice and editing and submit them the contact person matjaz gams ijs who always being your disposal you will receive prompt confirmation and any information concerning our common interest and job the end please not forget need your cooperation and help every mentioned respect the aim informatica open various possibilities communication concerning strong scientific and philosophical orientations well those coming still unrevealed and the way become significant please not apprehend give proposals suggestions and certainly contributions via the mail and other means sincerely yours anton zeleznikar editor chief
comp.graphics	anti aliasing raytracing question article slb lbu mserv coulter daresbury writes everyone was woundering someone could answer simple query for raytracing and anti aliasing stuff deleted have similiar question relating anti alaising that friend has asked have posted the more knowledgable this group sorry this faq what anti alaising methods persistance vision polyray use thank you advance you can either email reply flame faq dwa
comp.graphics	need algorithm which decide whether point inside space defined planes hey looking for algorithm which decide whether point inside space which was defined points with space defined points mean space defined closed meshes defined points like this but this simple example the sides are parallel but problem the sides can non parallel and the opposite sides must not have the same size etc please mail your informations thanks for your great efforts oliver name kretzschmar inst ike university stuttgart phone pfaffenwaldring fax stuttgart email wnkretz ikesg energietechnik uni stuttgart
comp.graphics	help with world screen transfomation matrix article vnmv rjck uucp rob rjck uucp robert kyanko writes need help creating perspective matrix like use this for transforming some texture mapping code got from graphics gems have many books which talk about this but none them simple plain english you have graphics gems talking about page like have perspective matrix that handles different field views and aspect course thank for your help cos alpha horizontal sin alpha cos beta vertical sin beta far clipping value near clipping value matrix geir atle storhaug geir storhaug ffi phone office home
comp.graphics	graphics library for and sun are looking for source code which was developed silicon graphics sgi would like compile sun and there anyone already supporting and sun please respond also please respond anyone knows where the source code available thank you chandra sbi com jon sbi com
comp.graphics	svga hicolor johan conroy jconroy babel wrote have question about svga cards have tseng svga with memory and bit dacs far know display now can display bit pixel bit maps this card you can the least your hardware capable supporting this mode know nothing about your video bios though how silly but fool proof way install windows with colors wideo driver and display your pictures under windows cheese serge
comp.graphics	images can anyone around here point information regarding stereoscopic images believe saw some show room texas lone star illusions and they were amazing now heard that they were created with simple graphic program does anyone have any these images digitized really want find out much can thanks brian ccnext ucsf edu please reply this address
comp.graphics	compositing pictures was wondering anyone knows graphics package for the that will compositing series pictures what mean compositing say have live video clip digitized panning around living room and computer generated bird flying around the screen want combine these two series pictures that everywhere where the bird frames are black want the living room picture show through yes realize can this with genlock and own genlock but want able manual compositing also have composite one frame time assumed have that anyway but being able composite series frames would even better looked around and haven found package that will perform this help please
comp.graphics	compositing pictures article may torreypinesca ncr com chu torreypinesca ncr com patrick chu writes was wondering anyone knows graphics package for the that will compositing series pictures what mean compositing say have live video clip digitized panning around living room and computer generated bird flying around the screen want combine these two series pictures that everywhere where the bird frames are black want the living room picture show through yes realize can this with genlock and own genlock but want able manual compositing also have composite one frame time assumed have that anyway but being able composite series frames would even better looked around and haven found package that will perform this help please you can get the live animation and the computer generated animation into autodesk animator fli flc format autodesk animator will this for you can take one animation make certain color clear and overlay over another animation not have way right now convert avi mpg files animator files animator will also import series gif files create animation your video capture stuff can create this might work vance gloster gloster inference com
comp.graphics	tga viewer for ati ultra hello the subject line says all looking for tga file viewer for the ati ultra card should support the true color modes course someone knows where find one via ftp please let know thanx oliver klimek
comp.graphics	gamma correction can someone who knows what they talking about add faq entry gamma correction thanks mark
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic dorsai dorsai org crawls dorsai dorsai org charles rawls writes the hacker ethic alive and well here know what you speak and only answer screw you have what make you feel right amen too have learned example specifically yours what can say but keep the faith there are others who likewise but dorsai leads the way unlike other services that are commercial nature dorsai community based service while others charge monthly fees for access dorsai accepts donations from those who can afford contribute while other systems don respond user input dorsai thrives other systems sell hardware for profit dorsai donates hardware community service groups and individuals who couldn afford normally dorsai lives due the hacker ethic charles jack skip cara ira mark david etc etc etc sleepless nights and days working equipment thats been assembled the embassy and modifying what ever else available work the first time order keep the slip line heres you bud one the few that decided stay and damn glad that did carlos dominguez sys admin owner kibbitzer ooo ooo root carlos uucp uupsi jpradley carlos carlos ask about helldiver carlos carlos jpr com guaranteed address
comp.graphics	vga graphics library article mwca uucp bill mwca uucp bill sheppard writes many high end graphics cards come with source code for doing basic graphics sorts things change colors draw points lines polygons fills etc does such library exist for generic vga graphics cards chips hopefully the public domain this would for the purpose compiling under non dos operating system running standard check the server code for xfree daniel ortmann talmidim ndsu electrical engineering ortmann plains nodak edu shalom fargo north dakota
comp.graphics	autodesk bbs does autodesk has bbs
comp.graphics	siggraph online experimental publication available try ing publications may online siggraph org there rosalee
comp.graphics	pov animating attempt animation with pov have created two little programs one program that will perform morph between any two points given the amount frames for the morph and then will write the points and the function translate rotate etc out file then have perl script that will read the list functions and insert them into pov file given line had hoped this would let simple animation however have discovered that simply performing incremental rotations object will not spin stationary object but will actually rotate the object about the axis now know easy way around this would first translate the object the origin perform the rotation and then move back but know there must another way around this had thought perhaps was because had created objects the origin and then translated them new point and then done the rotation which could cause this behavior however this occurs objects that are not translated all any help appreciated ttknock bbs santafe edu
comp.graphics	gifs tek was skimming through few gophers and bumped into one nih with database that included images gif format while have not yet worked out the kinks getting the gopher client call viewer figure that the majority the users here are not environment instead using dos and kermit with kermit supporting tek emulation for graphics display does anyone know package that would allow tek display gif image would more use the local population plug something this sort the picture command instead xview xloadimage andrew brennan hal hahnemann edu
comp.graphics	products handle hdtv moving pircture sec kazsato twics writes like know there any system cpu array framebuffer which can play and record hdtv quality moving picture realtime hdtv has about frame recording playing moving picture will need about sec bandwidth thinking treat the raw data not compressed finding disk array that can sec will difficult the fastest ones know about are from maximum strategy ibm also sells these they can attach hippi sec bit for these kinds data rates you need more than scsi for connections their latest model the raid model gen only does sec but think this may limitation only the hippi channel and that customer needs have not exceeded that speed since their older model was faster they are also not idle must working newer products that might faster and are small company you might able ask about custom interfaces they still marketed the older faster model few mongths ago maximum strategy inc buckeye court milpitas sales maxstrat com you might still want look into compression will very difficult keep the hippi bus fully working all times sustained throughput might come close maximum burst rate interesting problem tell more you can anyone can advise what kind product should look into please mail will appriciate the vendor mail address price the products actual performance data the products any info will help thanks advance kaz sato tokyo japan mail kazsato twics dick wilmot editor independent raid report
comp.graphics	wanted mpeg description sources encoders decoders please help with mpeg description sources decoders encoders great thanks advance maximus origin mister postman bbs
comp.graphics	gif dstudio far simply mapping your logo whatever onto cube sphere quite easy just either copy the gif you want mapped into the map directory add map path the directory where currently then into the materials editor and make new material with that the bit map voila zippy cyberden the cyberden public access waffle usenet system
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic article may vxcrna cern filipe vxcrna cern vinci writes blah blah talking about hackers you know wow new proof for complete problem you guys eurpoe really got your stuff together base step deleted too bad inductive step but anyway poor golfers bad carpenters bad surgeons are not thieves your assertion that hacker thief unsupported your argument imho the narrower view that hacker when associated with the computing environment dishonest expert not widespread inductive hypothesis therefore conclude that you call yourself hacker and somebody perceives you thief then this person belongs very very small group that has some computer knowledge but not enough know the wider and original meaning the word course one can always know this and disregard nonetheless then equate hacker thief giving substance humpty assertion even though kind reverse way fodder step finally true hacker does not name himself herself one for this title that bestowed the befuddled sysadmins and users large sign truly great hacker introduced someone who says nahh just know thing two people always exagerate filipe santos english not first language plse forgetful mistakes like mother always said you can say something nice was that can say something right kxh this the signature file what you think
comp.graphics	pov tga having slight problem with the pov raytracer not sure this the correct group post not create tga files unix machine using pov then when download them display they listed bad files but when create the file displays fine are unix tga incompatible with the easy solution this problem would unix targa gif converter anyone know where could find one any help this subject appreciated kevin
comp.graphics	tex texture map format was avalon today and found texture maps some tex and txc format something never encountered before these are obviously not tex latex files you have clue how can convert these something reasonable please let know brian
comp.graphics	gamma correction article meinnrc gap caltech edu madler cco caltech edu mark adler writes can someone who knows what they talking about add faq entry gamma correction thanks get regular questions about gamma correction since great pains deal with properly xli the image loader program maintain here explanation often use answer these questions this might suitable for inclusion the faq graeme gill note gamma correction and images author graeme gill graeme labtam date what all this gamma stuff anyway although would nice think that image image there are lot complications not only are there whole bunch different image formats gif jpeg tiff etc etc there whole lot other technical stuff that makes dealing with images bit complicated gamma one those things you ever downloaded images from bbs the net you probably noticed with most image viewing programs that some images look some look too dark and some look too light why this you may ask this gamma correction the lack why need gamma correction all gamma correction needed because the nature crts cathode ray tubes the monitors usually used for viewing images you have some sort real live scene and turn into computer image measuring the amount light coming from each point the scene then you have created linear gamma corrected image this good thing many ways because you can manipulate the image the values the image file were light adding and multiplying will work just like real light the real world now you take the image file and turn each pixel value into voltage and feed into crt you find that the crt doesn give you amount light proportional the voltage the amount light coming from the phosphor the screen depends the the voltage something like this light out voltage crt gamma you just dump your nice linear image out crt the image will look much too dark fix this you have gamma correct the image first you need the opposite what the crt will the image that things cancel out and you get what you want you have this your image gamma corrected image image crt gamma for most crts the crt gamma somewhere between and that all why does seem complicated the problem that not all display programs gamma correction also not all sources images give you linear images video cameras video signals general because this lot images already have some gamma correction done them and you are rarely sure how much you try and display one those images with program that does gamma correction for you the image gets corrected twice and looks way light you display one those images with program that doesn gamma correction then will look vaguely right but not perfect because the gamma correction not exactly right for you particular crt whose fault all this really three things one all those display programs out there that don gamma correction properly another that most image formats don specify standard gamma don have some way recording what their gamma correction the third thing that not many people understand what gamma correction all about and create lot images with varying gamma least two file formats the right thing the utah graphics toolkit rle format has semi standard way recording the gamma image the jfif file standard that uses jpeg compression specifies that the image encoded must have gamma linear image but not everyone obeys the rules some image loaders for instance xli image utility allow you specify not only the gamma the monitor you are using but the individual gamma values image you are trying view other image viewers another image program and utilities the pbm toolkit provide ways changing the gamma image but you have figure out the overall gamma correction yourself allowing for undoing any gamma correction the image has and then the gamma correction you need suite your crt monitor note that doesn provide easy way modifying the gamma image you need adjust the and curves the appropriate gamma the coledit controls altering the intensity the hsv controls doesn the right thing fails take account the effect gamma has and this tends give tint the image how can figure out what viewer does what gamma screen has the simplest way that try loading the file chkgamma jpg provided with xli distribution which jfif jpeg format file containing two grayscale ramps the ramps are chosen look linear the human eye one using continuous tones and the other using dithering your viewer does the right thing and gamma corrects images then the two ramps should look symmetrical and the point which they look equally bright should almost exactly half way from the top the bottom find this point helps you move away little from the screen and focus your eyes bit your viewer doesn gamma correction then left hand ramp will have long dark part and short white part and the point equal brightness will above the center your viewer does have way setting the right amount gamma correction for display then the equal brightness point above center increase the gamma and decrease below the center the value will usually around with xli for instance you can adjust the display gamma with the dispgamma flag and once you got right you can set the display gamma environment variable your profile how figure out what the gamma image this the most tricky bit general rule seems that lot true color bit ppm jpg images have gamma linear although there are many about that have some gamma correction seems that the majority pseudo color images bit images with color maps gif etc are gamma corrected some degree other your viewer does gamma correction then linear images will look good and gamma corrected images will look too light your viewer doesn gamma correction then linear images will look too dark and gamma corrected images will why linear images are sometimes not such good thing one the reason that many high quality formats such video use gamma correction that actually makes better use the storage medium this because the human eye has logarithmic response light and gamma correction has similar compression characteristic this means images could make better use bits per color for instance they used gamma correction the implication though that every time you want any image processing you should convert the bit image linear bits retain the same accuracy since little popular software does this and none the popular image formats can agree standard gamma correction factor difficult justify gamma corrected images the popular level some image formats can standardize particular gamma and image manipulation software takes care use extra precision when dealing with linearized internal data then gamma corrected distribution images would good thing told that the kodak photocd format for instance has standard gamma correction factor that enables get the highest quality out the bits used hold the image
comp.graphics	help rectangle and parallelogram hope someone can help with the following problem sure there must known solution given rectangle defined and where and are constant and parallelogram defined and where are constants and not parallel lines not equal what the area their intersection what after some general algorithm suitable for all rectangles and parallelograms that can described the above equations the moment looks like going have look all possible cases and examine each seperately rectangle encloses parallelogram parallelogram encloses rectangle two corners parallelogram inside rectangle origin two corners parallelogram outside rectangle hope someone can help many thanks advance dave nettleton mail nettleton durham can you please any replies mail
comp.graphics	pict epsf etc map italy article chunter umab bitnet chunter umab bitnet writes does anybody know where can get graphic mac pict epsf tiff gif whatever italy looking for picture map italy even just the map italy showing the states provinces the freehand for windows clip art collection corel draw clip art has outline map italy jim powlesland internet powlesla acs ucalgary academic computing services voice university calgary message calgary alberta canada fax
comp.graphics	comp graphics faq there comp graphics faq and where jim powlesland internet powlesla acs ucalgary academic computing services voice university calgary message calgary alberta canada fax
comp.graphics	help animation for pcx gif files series images sun raster formats converted them pcx formats can the conversion others like gif well would like know any software that able animation for these formats and record the animation onto video tape thank you leong wai ming internet engp nusunix nus national university singapore bitnet engp nusvm nus
comp.graphics	information bmp files article gnbich med uovs gnbich med uovs charles herbst biofisika writes there anybody who can help with information the bmp file format please mail directly gnbich med uovs help will appreciated charles herbst have also been looking for this but have come with nothing have looked ftp ncsa uiuc edu which supposed have lot image specs email preferred there enough interest will post summary lise unit
comp.graphics	jpeg image compression frequently asked questions archive name jpeg faq last modified may this faq article discusses jpeg image compression suggestions for additions and clarifications are welcome new since version may added info imageviewer for next this article includes the following sections what jpeg why use jpeg when should use jpeg and when should stick with gif how well does jpeg compress images what are good quality settings for jpeg where can get jpeg software canned software viewers etc source code what all this hoopla about color quantization how does jpeg work what about lossless jpeg why all the argument about file formats how recognize which file format have and what about what about arithmetic coding does loss accumulate with repeated compression decompression what are some rules thumb for converting gif images jpeg sections are basic info that every jpeg user needs know sections are advanced info for the curious this article posted every weeks you can always find the latest version the news answers archive rtfm mit edu ftp fetch pub usenet news answers jpeg faq you don have ftp send mail mail server rtfm mit edu with body send usenet news answers jpeg faq many other faq articles are also stored this archive for more instructions use the archive send mail the same address with the words help and index quotes separate lines you don get reply the server may misreading your return address add line such path myname mysite specify your correct mail address reply what jpeg jpeg pronounced jay peg standardized image compression mechanism jpeg stands for joint photographic experts group the original name the committee that wrote the standard jpeg designed for compressing either full color gray scale digital images natural real world scenes does not work well non realistic images such cartoons line drawings jpeg does not handle black and white bit per pixel images nor does handle motion picture compression standards for compressing those types images are being worked other committees named jbig and mpeg respectively jpeg lossy meaning that the image you get out decompression isn quite identical what you originally put the algorithm achieves much its compression exploiting known limitations the human eye notably the fact that small color details aren perceived well small details light and dark thus jpeg intended for compressing images that will looked humans you plan machine analyze your images the small errors introduced jpeg may problem for you even they are invisible the eye useful property jpeg that the degree lossiness can varied adjusting compression parameters this means that the image maker can trade off file size against output image quality you can make extremely small files you don mind poor quality this useful for indexing image archives making thumbnail views icons etc etc conversely you aren happy with the output quality the default compression setting you can jack the quality until you are satisfied and accept lesser compression why use jpeg there are two good reasons make your image files smaller and store bit per pixel color data instead bit per pixel data making image files smaller big win for transmitting files across networks and for archiving libraries images being able compress mbyte full color file down kbytes makes big difference disk space and transmission time you are comparing gif and jpeg the size ratio more like four one more details below your viewing software doesn support jpeg directly you have convert jpeg some other format for viewing manipulating images even with jpeg capable viewer takes longer decode and view jpeg image than view image simpler format gif for instance thus using jpeg essentially time space tradeoff you give some time order store transmit image more cheaply worth noting that when network phone transmission involved the time savings from transferring shorter file can much greater than the extra time decompress the file let you the arithmetic yourself the other reason why jpeg will gradually replace gif standard usenet posting format that jpeg can store full color information bits pixel million colors instead less fewer colors you have only bit display hardware then this may not seem like much advantage you within couple years though bit gif will look obsolete black and white macpaint format does today furthermore for reasons detailed section jpeg far more useful than gif for exchanging images among people with widely varying color display hardware hence jpeg considerably more appropriate than gif for use usenet posting standard when should use jpeg and when should stick with gif jpeg not going displace gif entirely for some types images gif superior image quality file size both one the first things learn about jpeg which kinds images apply rule thumb jpeg superior gif for storing full color gray scale images realistic scenes that means scanned photographs and similar material jpeg superior even you don have bit display hardware and lot superior you see section for details gif does significantly better images with only few distinct colors such cartoons and line drawings particular large areas pixels that are all exactly the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed gif jpeg can squeeze these files much gif does without introducing visible defects this sort image best kept gif form particular single color borders are quite cheap gif files but they should avoided jpeg files jpeg also has hard time with very sharp edges row pure black pixels adjacent row pure white pixels for example sharp edges tend come out blurred unless you use very high quality setting again this sort thing not found scanned photographs but shows fairly often gif files borders overlaid text etc the blurriness particularly objectionable with text that only few pixels high you have gif with lot small size overlaid text don jpeg computer drawn images ray traced scenes for instance usually fall between scanned images and cartoons terms complexity the more complex and subtly rendered the image the more likely that jpeg will well the same goes for semi realistic artwork fantasy drawings and such plain black and white two level images should never converted jpeg you need least about gray levels before jpeg useful for gray scale images should also noted that gif lossless for gray scale images levels while jpeg not you have existing library gif images you may wonder whether you should convert them jpeg you will lose little image quality you section which argues that jpeg image quality superior gif only applies both formats start from full color original you start from gif you already irretrievably lost great deal information jpeg can only make things worse however the disk space savings may justify converting anyway this decision you have make for yourself you convert gif library jpeg see section for hints prepared leave some images gif format since some gifs will not convert well how well does jpeg compress images pretty darn well here are some sample file sizes for image have handy full color image ship harbor the first three files are for comparison purposes the rest were created with the free jpeg software described section file size bytes comments ship ppm original file ppm format compression bits bytes per pixel plus few bytes overhead ship ppm ppm file passed through unix compress compress doesn accomplish lot you note other text oriented compressors give similar results ship gif converted gif with ppmquant ppmtogif most the savings the result losing color info gif saves bits pixel not see sec ship jpg cjpeg highest useful quality setting this indistinguishable from the bit original least nonprofessional eyeballs ship jpg cjpeg default setting you have look mighty darn close distinguish this from the original even with both screen once ship jpg cjpeg this has slight defects you know what look for you could tell been jpeged without seeing the original still good image quality many recent postings usenet pictures groups ship jpg cjpeg jpeg characteristic blockiness becomes apparent this setting djpeg blocksmooth helps some still seen plenty usenet postings that were poorer image quality than this ship jpg cjpeg optimize optimize cuts table overhead blocky but perfectly satisfactory for preview indexing purposes note that this file tiny the compression ratio from the original this case jpeg can make file that factor four five smaller than gif comparable quality the file every bit good the gif better you have full color display this seems typical ratio for real world scenes what are good quality settings for jpeg most jpeg compressors let you pick file size image quality tradeoff selecting quality setting there seems widespread confusion about the meaning these settings quality does not mean keep the information some have claimed the quality scale purely arbitrary not percentage anything the name the game using jpeg pick the lowest quality setting smallest file size that decompresses into image indistinguishable from the original this setting will vary from one image another and from one observer another but here are some rules thumb the default quality setting very often the best choice this setting about the lowest you can without expecting see defects typical image try first you see defects then except for experimental purposes never above saying will produce file two three times large but hardly any better quality the image was less than perfect quality begin with you might able down without objectionable degradation the other hand you might need higher quality setting avoid further degradation the second case seems apply much the time when converting gifs jpeg the default about right for compressing bit images but usually better for converting gifs see section for more info you want very small file say for preview indexing purposes and are prepared tolerate large defects setting the range about right may amusing art note the quality settings discussed this article apply the free jpeg software described section and many programs based other jpeg implementations such image alchemy may use completely different quality scale some programs don even provide numeric scale just high medium low style choices where can get jpeg software most the programs described this section are available ftp you don know how use ftp see the faq article how find sources you don have direct access ftp read about ftpmail servers the same article that article appears regularly news answers you can get sending mail mail server rtfm mit edu with send usenet news answers finding sources the body the anonymous ftp list faq may also helpful usenet news answers ftp list faq the news answers archive note this list changes constantly you have copy more than couple months old get the latest jpeg faq from the news answers archive you are looking for canned software viewers etc the first part this list system specific programs that only run one kind system you don see what you want for your machine check out the portable jpeg software described the end the list note that this list concentrates free and shareware programs that you can obtain over internet but some commercial programs are listed too windows shareware excellent viewer for jpeg gif and many other image formats can also format conversion and some simple image manipulations available for ftp from export lcs mit edu file contrib tar version major upgrade with support for bit displays and many other improvements however brand new and still has some bugs lurking you prefer not the bleeding edge stick with version also available from export note that version not good choice you have bit display you get only bit color nor for converting bit images jpeg but works fine for converting gif and other bit images jpeg caution there glitch version sure check the save normal size checkbox when saving jpeg file the file will blurry another good choice for windows john cristy free imagemagick package also available from export lcs mit edu file contrib imagemagick tar this package handles many image processing and conversion tasks the imagemagick viewer handles bit displays correctly for colormapped displays does better though slower color quantization than the basic free jpeg software both the above are large complex packages you just want simple image viewer try xloadimage xli xloadimage supports jpeg its latest release xloadimage free and available from export lcs mit edu file contrib xloadimage tar xli variant version xloadimage said its fans somewhat faster and more robust than the original the current xli indeed faster and more robust than the current xloadimage least with respect jpeg files because has the ijg decoder while xloadimage using hacked over the next xloadimage release will fix this xli also free and available from export lcs mit edu file contrib xli tar both programs are said the right thing with bit displays dos this covers plain dos for windows programs see the next headings one good choice eric praetzel free dvpeg which views jpeg and gif files the current version available ftp from sunee uwaterloo file pub jpeg viewers dvpeg zip this good basic viewer that works either machines the user interface not flashy but functional another freeware jpeg gif tga viewer mohammad rezaei hiview the current version available from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics zip hiview requires better cpu and vcpi compatible memory manager qemm and max work windows and not hiview currently the fastest viewer for images that are bigger than your screen for larger images scales the image down fit the screen rather than using panning scrolling most viewers you may may not prefer this approach but there denying that slows down loading large images considerably note installation bit tricky read the directions carefully shareware alternative colorview for dos this easier install than either the two freeware alternatives its user interface also much spiffier looking although personally find harder use more keystrokes inconsistent behavior faster than dvpeg but little slower than hiview least hardware for images larger than screen size dvpeg and colorview seem about the same speed and both are faster than hiview the current version available from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics dcview zip requires vesa graphics driver you don have one look vesadrv zip vesa tsr zip from the same directory many recent pcs have built vesa driver don try load vesa driver unless colorview complains that the driver missing second shareware alternative fullview which has been kicking around the net for while but don know any stable archive location for the current rather old version inferior the above viewers anyway the author tells that new version fullview will out shortly and will submitted the simtel archives that time the well known gif viewer compushow cshow supports jpeg its latest revision however cshow jpeg implementation isn very good slow about half the speed the above viewers and image quality poor except color displays too bad have been nice see good jpeg capability cshow shareware available from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos gif cshw zip due the remarkable variety graphics hardware any one these viewers might not work your particular machine you can get any them work you need use one the following conversion programs convert jpeg gif then view with your favorite gif viewer you have color hardware don use gif the intermediate format try find targa capable viewer instead vpic reputed the right thing with color displays the independent jpeg group free jpeg converters are ftpable from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics jpeg zip jpeg zip you have and extended memory these files are dos compilations the free source code described section they will convert jpeg and from gif targa and ppm formats handmade software offers free jpeg gif conversion tools gif jpg jpg gif these are slow and are limited conversion and from gif format particular you can get bit color output from jpeg the major advantage these tools that they will read and write hsi proprietary jpeg format well the usenet standard jfif format since hsi format files are rather widespread bbses this useful capability version these tools free prior versions were shareware get from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics gif jpg zip note not use hsi format for files posted internet since not readable non platforms handmade software also has shareware image conversion and manipulation package image alchemy this will translate jpeg files both jfif and hsi formats and from many other image formats can also display images demo version image alchemy version available from simtel and mirror sites see note below file msdos graphics alch zip note about simtel the internet key archive site for related programs simtel full name wsmr simtel army mil simtel runs non unix system with weird directory names where this document refers directory msdos graphics simtel that really means msdos graphics you are not physically milnet you should expect rather slow ftp transfer rates from simtel there are several internet sites that maintain copies mirrors the simtel archives most ftp users should one the mirror sites instead popular usa mirror site oak oakland edu which keeps simtel files pub msdos graphics you have ftp capability you can retrieve files from simtel mail see informational postings comp archives msdos announce find out how you are outside the usa consult the same newsgroup learn where your nearest simtel mirror microsoft windows there are several windows programs capable displaying jpeg images windows viewers are generally slower than dos viewers the same hardware due windows system overhead note that you can run the dos conversion programs described above inside windows dos window the newest entry winecj which free and extremely fast version available from ftp rahul net file pub bryanw jpeg wecj zip requires windows and more colors mode this frills viewer with the bad habit hogging the machine completely while decodes and the image quality noticeably worse than other viewers but fast you use anyway least for previewing jview freeware fairly fast has good line help and can write out the decompressed image windows bmp format but can create new jpeg files and doesn view gifs jview also lacks some other useful features the shareware viewers such brightness adjustment but excellent basic viewer the current version available from ftp cica indiana edu file pub win desktop jview zip mirrors this archive can found some other internet sites including wuarchive wustl edu winjpeg shareware displays jpeg gif targa tiff and bmp image files can write all these formats too can used converter has some other nifty features including color balance adjustment and slideshow the current version available from simtel and mirror sites see note above file msdos windows winjp zip this slow compatible version you register you get the only version which roughly faster colorview another shareware entry this was early and promising contender but has not been updated some time and this point has real advantages over winjpeg you want try anyway the current version available from ftp cica indiana edu file pub win desktop cview zip understand that new version will appearing once the authors are finished with colorview for dos dvpeg see dos heading also works under windows but only full screen mode not window the following files are available from hobbes nmsu edu note check pub uploads for more recent versions the hobbes moderator not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories pub graphics jpegv zip bit version free ijg conversion programs version pub all graphics jpeg zip bit version same for pub graphics imgarc zip image archiver image conversion viewing with graphical interface strong conversion functions viewing bit weaker shareware pub graphics pmjpeg zip pmjpeg port winjpeg popular viewer for windows see description windows section shareware pub graphics pmview zip pmview jpeg gif bmp targa pcx viewer gif viewing very fast jpeg viewing roughly the same speed the above two programs has image manipulation slideshow functions shareware macintosh most mac jpeg programs rely apple jpeg implementation which part the quicktime system extension you need have quicktime installed use quicktime you need better cpu and you need running system later you running system you must also install the bit quickdraw extension this built system you can get quicktime ftp from ftp apple com file dts mac quicktime quicktime hqx this file contains quicktime which better than several ways with respect jpeg marginally faster and considerably less prone crash when fed corrupt jpeg file however some applications seem have compatibility problems with mac users should keep mind that quicktime jpeg format pict jpeg not the same the usenet standard jfif jpeg format see section for details you post images usenet make sure they are jfif format most the programs mentioned below can generate either format the first choice probably jpegview free program for viewing images that are jfif format pict jpeg format gif format also can convert between the two jpeg formats the current version big improvement over prior versions get from sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app jpeg view hqx requires system and quicktime bit displays jpegview usually produces the best color image quality all the currently available mac jpeg viewers jpegview can view large images much less memory than other mac viewers fact the only one that can deal with jpeg images much over pixels typical mac given large image jpegview automatically scales down fit the screen rather than presenting scroll bars like most other viewers you can zoom any desired portion though some people like this behavior some don overall jpegview user interface very well thought out gifconverter shareware image viewer converter supports jfif and pict jpeg well gif and several other image formats the latest version get from sumex aim stanford edu file info mac art gif gif converter hqx requires system later gifconverter not better than jpegview plain jpeg gif viewer but has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion capabilities you may find worth its shareware fee you lot playing around with images also the newest version gifconverter can load and save jfif images without quicktime your best bet your machine too old run quicktime but faster with quicktime note gifconverter runs out memory trying load large jpeg try converting the file gif with jpeg convert then viewing the gif version jpeg convert mac version the free ijg jpeg conversion utilities available from sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app jpeg convert hqx this will run any mac but only does file conversion not viewing you can use conjunction with any gif viewer previous versions this faq recommended imagery jpeg jpeg gif converter based old version the ijg code you are using this program you definitely should replace with jpeg convert apple free program pictpixie can view images jfif quicktime jpeg and gif format and can convert between these formats you can get pictpixie from ftp apple com file dts mac quicktime stuff pictpixie hqx requires quicktime pictpixie was intended developer tool and really not the best choice unless you like fool around with quicktime some its drawbacks are that requires lots memory produces relatively poor color image quality anything less than bit display and has relatively unfriendly user interface worse pictpixie unsupported program meaning has some minor bugs that apple does not intend fix there old version pictpixie called pictcompressor floating around the net you have this you should trash even buggier also the quicktime starter kit includes much cleaned descendant pictpixie called picture compressor note that picture compressor not free and may not distributed the net storm technology picture decompress free jpeg viewer converter this rather old program inferior the above programs many ways but will run without system quicktime you may forced use older systems does need bit quickdraw really old machines can use you can get from sumex aim stanford edu file info mac app picture decompress hqx you must set the file type downloaded image file jpeg allow picture decompress open your machine too old run bit quickdraw mac plus for instance gifconverter your only choice for single program jpeg viewing you don want pay for gifconverter use jpeg convert and free gif viewer more and more commercial mac applications are supporting jpeg although not all can deal with the usenet standard jfif format adobe photoshop version later can read and write jfif format jpeg files use the jpeg plug from the acquire menu you must set the file type downloaded jpeg file jpeg allow photoshop recognize amiga most programs listed this section are stored the aminet archive amiga physik unizh there are many mirror sites this archive and you should try use the closest one the usa good choice wuarchive wustl edu look under mirrors amiga physik unizh hamlab plus excellent jpeg viewer converter well being general image manipulation tool cheap shareware and can read several formats besides jpeg the current version demo version available from amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx edit hamlab lha the demo version will crop images larger than but otherwise fully functional rend shareware image renderer that can display jpeg ilbm and gif images the program can used create animations even capturing frames the fly from rendering packages like lightwave the current version available from amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx rend lha note although this directory supposedly for amigados programs the program will also run under amigados viewtek free jpeg ilbm gif anim viewer the current version available from amiga physik unizh and mirror sites file amiga gfx show viewtek lha you willing spend real money there are several commercial packages that support jpeg two are written thomas krehbiel the author rend and viewtek these are cinemorph standalone image morphing package and imagefx impressive bit image capture conversion editing painting effects and prepress package that also includes cinemorph both are distributed great valley products art department professional adpro from asdg inc the most widely used commercial image manipulation software for amigas imagemaster from black belt systems another well regarded commercial graphics package with jpeg support the free ijg jpeg software available compiled for amigas from amiga physik unizh and mirror sites directory amiga gfx conv file amigajpegv lha these programs convert jpeg from ppm gif targa formats the amiga world heavily infested with quick and dirty jpeg programs many based ancient beta test version the free ijg jpeg software thanks certain magazine that published same its disk the month without much notifying the authors among these are augjpeg newamyjpeg vjpeg and probably others have not even heard opinion anything older than ijg version march not worth the disk space stored you have such program trash and get something newer atari the free ijg jpeg software available compiled for atari etc from atari archive umich edu file atari graphics jpeg bin zoo these programs convert jpeg from ppm gif targa formats for monochrome monitors try mgif which manages achieve four level grayscale effect flickering version reads jpeg files available from atari archive umich edu file atari graphics mgif zoo have not heard any other free shareware jpeg capable viewers for ataris but surely there must some now pointers appreciated acorn archimedes changefsi supplied with risc version can convert from and view jpeg jfif format provision also made convert images jpeg although this must done from the cli rather than double clicking recent versions since the shareware program translator can handle jpeg along with about other image formats while older versions can found some archimedes bboards the current version only available registering with the author john kortink nutterbrink enschede the netherlands price dutch guilders about pounds there also commercial product called jpeg which provides jpeg read write functionality and direct jpeg viewing well host other image format conversion and processing options this more expensive but not necessarily better than the above programs contact software freepost cambridge tel next imageviewer utility that displays images and can some format conversions the current version reads jpeg but does not write imageviewer available from the standard next archives sonata purdue edu and orst edu somewhere pub next both are currently being organized hard point specific sub directories note that there older version floating around that does not support jpeg portable software for almost any system none the above fits your situation you can obtain and compile the free jpeg conversion software described you also need viewer program your display bits less any gif viewer will fine you have display with more color capability try find viewer that can read targa ppm bit image files there are numerous commercial jpeg offerings with more popping every day recommend that you not spend money one these unless you find the available free shareware software vastly too slow that case purchase hardware assisted product ask pointed questions about whether the product complies with the final jpeg standard and about whether can handle the jfif file format many the earliest commercial releases are not and never will compatible with anyone else files you are looking for source code work with free portable code for jpeg compression available from the independent jpeg group which lead package containing our source code documentation and some small test files available from several places the official archive site for this source code ftp net look under directory graphics jpeg the current release jpegsrc tar this compressed tar file don forget retrieve binary mode you can retrieve this file ftp uucp you are and don know how cope with tar format you may prefer zip format which you can find simtel and mirror sites see note above file msdos graphics jpegsrc zip this file will also available compuserve the graphsupport forum pics library jpsrc zip you have ftp access you can retrieve the source from your nearest comp sources misc archive version appeared issues volume you don know how retrieve comp sources misc postings see the faq article how find sources referred the top section the free jpeg code provides conversion between jpeg jfif format and image files gif pbmplus ppm pgm utah rle and truevision targa file formats the core compression and decompression modules can easily reused other programs such image viewers the package highly portable have tested many machines ranging from pcs crays have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use companies are welcome use the basis for jpeg related products not ask royalty although ask for acknowledgement product literature see the readme file the distribution for details hope make this software industrial quality although with anything that free offer warranty and accept liability the independent jpeg group volunteer organization you like contribute improving our software you are welcome join what all this hoopla about color quantization most people don have full color bit per pixel display hardware typical display hardware stores fewer bits per pixel can display fewer distinct colors time display full color image the computer must map the image into appropriate set representative colors this process called color quantization this something misnomer color selection would better term stuck with the standard usage though clearly color quantization lossy process turns out that for most images the details the color quantization algorithm have much more impact the final image quality than any errors introduced jpeg except the very lowest jpeg quality settings since jpeg full color format converting color jpeg image for display bit less hardware requires color quantization this true for all color jpegs even you feed less color gif into jpeg what comes out the decompressor not colors but thousands colors this happens because jpeg lossiness affects each pixel little differently two pixels that started with identical colors will probably come out with slightly different colors each original color gets smeared into group nearby colors therefore quantization always required display color jpeg colormapped display regardless the image source the only way avoid quantization ask for gray scale output incidentally because this effect nearly meaningless talk about the number colors used jpeg image even you attempted count the number distinct pixel values different jpeg decoders would give you different results because roundoff error differences occasionally see posted images described color jpeg this tells that the poster hasn read this faq and probably converted the jpeg from gif jpegs can classified color gray scale just like photographs but number colors just isn useful concept for jpeg the other hand gif image definition has already been quantized fewer colors gif does have definite number colors its palette and the format doesn allow more than palette entries for purposes usenet picture distribution gif has the advantage that the sender precomputes the color quantization recipients don have this also the disadvantage gif you stuck with the sender quantization the sender quantized different number colors than what you can display you have quantize resulting much poorer image quality than you had quantized once from full color image furthermore the sender didn use high quality color quantization algorithm you out luck for this reason jpeg offers the promise significantly better image quality for all users whose machines don match the sender display hardware jpeg full color image can quantized precisely match the user display hardware furthermore you will able take advantage future improvements quantization algorithms there lot active research this area purchase better display hardware get better view jpeg images you already have with gif you stuck forevermore with what was sent also worth mentioning that many gif viewing programs include rather shoddy quantization routines you view color gif color ega display for example you are probably getting much worse image than you need this partly inevitable consequence doing two color quantizations one create the gif one display but often also due sloppiness jpeg conversion programs will forced use high quality quantizers order get acceptable results all and normal use they will quantize directly the number colors displayed thus jpeg likely provide better results than the average gif program for low color resolution displays well high resolution ones finally ever growing number people have better than bit display hardware already bit color displays true bit displays workstations and macintoshes etc for these people gif already obsolete cannot represent image the full capabilities their display jpeg images can drive these displays much more effectively thus jpeg all around better choice than gif for representing images machine independent fashion how does jpeg work the buzz words know are chrominance subsampling discrete cosine transforms coefficient quantization and huffman arithmetic entropy coding this article long enough already not going say more than that here for technical information see the comp compression faq this available from the news answers archive rtfm mit edu files pub usenet news answers compression faq part you need help using the news answers archive see the top this article what about lossless jpeg there great deal confusion this subject the jpeg committee did define truly lossless compression algorithm one that guarantees the final output bit for bit identical the original input however this lossless mode has almost nothing common with the regular lossy jpeg algorithm and offers much less compression present very few implementations lossless jpeg exist and all them are commercial saying the free jpeg software does not get you lossless image what does get rid deliberate information loss the coefficient quantization step there still good deal information loss the color subsampling step with the free jpeg code you can also say sample turn off subsampling keep mind that many commercial jpeg implementations cannot cope with the resulting file even with both quantization and subsampling turned off the regular jpeg algorithm not lossless because subject roundoff errors various calculations the maximum error few counts any one pixel value highly unlikely that this could perceived the human eye but might concern you are doing machine processing image this minimum loss setting regular jpeg produces files that are perhaps half the size uncompressed bit per pixel image true lossless jpeg provides roughly the same amount compression but guarantees bit for bit accuracy you have application requiring lossless storage images with less than bits per pixel per color component you may want look into the jbig bilevel image compression standard this performs better than jpeg lossless such images jpeg lossless superior jbig images with more bits per pixel furthermore jpeg public domain least with huffman back end while the jbig techniques are heavily covered patents why all the argument about file formats strictly speaking jpeg refers only family compression algorithms does not refer specific image file format the jpeg committee was prevented from defining file format turf wars within the international standards organizations since can actually exchange images with anyone else unless agree common file format this leaves with problem the absence official standards number jpeg program writers have just gone off their own thing and result their programs aren compatible with anybody else the closest thing have facto standard jpeg format some work that been coordinated people cube microsystems they have defined two jpeg based file formats jfif jpeg file interchange format low end format that transports pixels and not much else tiff jpeg aka tiff extension the aldus tiff format tiff high end format that will let you record just about everything you ever wanted know about image and lot more besides tiff lot more complex than jfif and may well prove less transportable because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different and incompatible subsets tiff not likely that adding jpeg the mix will anything improve this situation both these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors jpeg related products reasonably likely that future commercial products will adhere one both standards believe that usenet should adopt jfif the replacement for gif picture postings jfif simpler than tiff and available now the tiff spec has only recently been officially adopted and still unusably vague some crucial details even when tiff jpeg well defined the jfif format likely widely supported lowest common denominator tiff jpeg files may never transportable particular case that people may interested apple quicktime software for the macintosh quicktime uses jfif compatible format wrapped inside the mac specific pict structure conversion between jfif and quicktime jpeg pretty straightforward and several mac programs are available see mac portion section you have editor that handles binary files you can strip quicktime jpeg pict down jfif hand see section for details another particular case handmade software programs gif jpg jpg gif and image alchemy these programs are capable reading and writing jfif format default though they write proprietary format developed hsi this format not readable any non hsi programs and should not used for usenet postings use the switch get jfif output this applies old versions these programs the current releases emit jfif format default you still should careful not post hsi format files unless you want get flamed people non platforms how recognize which file format have and what about you have alleged jpeg file that your software won read likely hsi format some other proprietary jpeg based format you can tell what you have inspecting the first few bytes the file jfif standard file will start with the characters hex followed two variable bytes often hex followed jfif you see the start but not the rest you may have raw jpeg file this probably decodable jfif software worth try anyway hsi files start with hsi you out luck unless you have hsi software portions the file may look like plain jpeg data but they won decompress properly with non hsi programs macintosh pict file jpeg compressed will have couple hundred bytes header followed jfif header scan for jfif strip off everything before the and you should able read anything else proprietary format not jpeg all you are lucky the file may consist header and raw jpeg data stream you can identify the start the jpeg data stream look for try stripping off everything before that uuencoded usenet postings the characteristic jfif pattern begin line whereas uuencoded hsi files will start with begin line you learn check for the former you can save yourself the trouble downloading non jfif files what about arithmetic coding the jpeg spec defines two different back end modules for the final output compressed data either huffman coding arithmetic coding allowed the choice has impact image quality but arithmetic coding usually produces smaller compressed file typical images arithmetic coding produces file percent smaller than huffman coding all the file size numbers previously cited are for huffman coding unfortunately the particular variant arithmetic coding specified the jpeg standard subject patents owned ibm and mitsubishi thus you cannot legally use arithmetic coding unless you obtain licenses from these companies the fair use doctrine allows people implement and test the algorithm but actually storing any images with dubious best least the short run recommend that people not worry about arithmetic coding the space savings isn great enough justify the potential legal hassles particular arithmetic coding should not used for any images exchanged usenet there some small chance that the legal situation may change the future stay tuned for further details does loss accumulate with repeated compression decompression would nice having compressed image with jpeg you could decompress manipulate crop off border say and recompress without any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially unfortunately this not the case general recompressing altered image loses more information though usually not much was lost the first time around the next best thing would that you decompress image and recompress without changing then there further loss you get identical jpeg file even this not true least not with the current free jpeg software essentially problem accumulation roundoff error you repeatedly compress and decompress the image will eventually degrade where you can see visible changes from the first generation output usually takes many such cycles get visible change one the things our list see accumulation error can avoided limited but not optimistic about any case the most that could possibly guaranteed would that compressing the unmodified full color output djpeg the original quality setting would introduce further loss even such simple changes cropping off border could cause further roundoff error degradation you wondering why because the pixel block boundaries move you cropped off only multiples pixels you might safe but that mighty limited capability the bottom line that jpeg useful format for archival storage and transmission images but you don want use intermediate format for sequences image manipulation steps use lossless format ppm rle tiff etc while working the image then jpeg when you are ready file away aside from avoiding degradation you will save lot compression decompression time this way what are some rules thumb for converting gif images jpeg stated earlier you will lose some amount image information you convert existing gif image jpeg you can obtain the original full color data the gif was made from far better make jpeg from that but you need save space and have only the gif work from here are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum loss quality the first rule when converting gif library look each jpeg make sure you are happy with before throwing away the corresponding gif that will give you chance the conversion with higher quality setting necessary some gifs may better left gifs explained section particular cartoon type gifs with sixteen fewer colors don convert well you may find that jpeg file reasonable quality will larger than the gif check the sizes too experience date suggests that large high visual quality gifs are the best candidates for conversion jpeg they chew the most storage offer the most potential savings and they convert jpeg with least degradation don waste your time converting any gif much under kbytes also don expect jpeg files converted from gifs small those created directly from full color originals maintain image quality you may have let the converted files much twice big straight through jpeg files would shoot for the size the gif file not suggested earlier comparisons many people have developed odd habit putting large constant color border around gif image while useless this was nearly free terms storage cost gif files not free jpeg files and the sharp border boundary can create visible artifacts ghost edges yourself favor and crop off any border before jpeging you are windows system manual and automatic cropping functions are very painless way this cjpeg default setting appropriate for full color input but for gif inputs settings often seem necessary avoid image degradation you apply smoothing suggested below the higher setting may not necessary color gifs photographs complex artwork are usually dithered fool your eye into seeing more than the colors that gif can actually store you enlarge the image you will see that adjacent pixels are often significantly different colors normal size the eye averages these pixels together produce the illusion intermediate color value the trouble with dithering that jpeg looks like high spatial frequency color noise and jpeg can compress noise very well the resulting jpeg file both larger and lower image quality than what you would have gotten from jpeging the original full color image you had get around this you want smooth the gif image before compression smoothing averages together nearby pixels thus approximating the color that you thought you saw anyway and the process getting rid the rapid color changes that give jpeg trouble appropriate use smoothing will often let you avoid using high factor thus further reducing the size the compressed file while still obtaining better looking output image than you get without smoothing with the free jpeg software products based simple smoothing capability built try smooth when converting gifs values seem work well for high quality gifs heavy handed dithering may require larger smoothing factors you can see regular fine scale patterns the gif image even without enlargement then strong smoothing definitely called for too large smoothing factor will blur the output image which you don want you are image processing wizard you can also smoothing with separate filtering program such pnmconvol from the pbmplus package however cjpeg built smoother lot faster than pnmconvol the upshot all this that cjpeg quality smooth probably good starting point for converting gifs but you really care about the image you want check the results and maybe try few other settings for more information about jpeg general the free jpeg software particular contact the independent jpeg group jpeg info uunet net tom lane organizer independent jpeg group internet tgl cmu edu bitnet tgl cmu edu carnegie
comp.graphics	optimizing projections article sua tinnqs names nerdc ufl edu lioness ufcc ufl edu writes three library does lot projections duh but currently projecting object vertices per triangle basis this grossly inefficient for the objects displayed which can optimized doing projections one time once for each vertex but objects whose extents intersect the hither plane can benefit from this because new vertices must created during clipping anyone have any better ideas yes here what you should keep the vertices array and have the polygons triangles are okay but sided polygons are slightly more efficient store the indices into the array the vertices that comprise them you set flag for each vertex when you transform you don have transform any vertex more than once you also backface elimination before processing the polygon that vertices that belong only bacfacing polys don have transformed all whenever you transform vertex check the far side the hither plane you can project right away and store the result then your clip any vertices that get produced will have have their projection done that stage bernie roehl university waterloo dept electrical and computer engineering mail broehl sunee uwaterloo voice work
comp.graphics	parametric drafting hello networld looking for documentation books parametric drafting does anyone know such material electronic gopher ftp site books authors not looking for commercial software rather info implementation and theory the subject planning make parametric generator for autocad and would need some referance everything you know interest thanks advace lasse lars erik stenholm student the university stockholm sweden
comp.graphics	shark looking for shark for use ray tracing rountine doing using vivid pov but can any format are there any ftp sites with objects does anyone have good shark thanks alot chad new sea world ohio chad cipiti shark cipiti bobcat ent ohiou edu encounter make contact cleveland freenet edu
comp.graphics	disp have posted disp zip alt binaries pictures utilities will upload this package simtel later you may distribute this program freely for non commercial use fee gained there warranty the author not responsible for any damage caused this program important changes since version added support for iris support mix concat two images added support for batch conversion added support for load save palette table added support for edge enhance added support for crop one line added support for negate image new color quantization option fix some minor bugs introduction this program can let you read write and display images with different formats also let you some special effects rotation dithering image its main purpose let you convert image among different formts include simple file management system support slide show support batch conversion there limit image size currently this program supports bits display you want use hicolor truecolor you must have vesa driver you want modify video driver please read section hardware requirement better msdos higher min amount ram bytes maybe less memory will also work recommend min bytes for better performance hard disk for swapping virtual memory the following description borrowed from djgpp supported wares extended memory expanded under vcpi disk space used for swapping supervga color mode xms vdisk memory allocation strategies vcpi programs such qemm desqview and max unsupported dpmi microsoft windows features emulator bit unix ish environment flat memory model svga graphics installation video drivers emu and exe are borrowed from djgpp you use western digital vga chips read readme this exe modified version for vesa and completely compatible with original version but some people report that this exe not compatible with other djgpp programs their system you encounter this problem don put exe within search path please read runme bat for how run this program you choose xxxxx grn video driver add environment for example driver xxxxx xxxxx grn you don have add emu xxxxx emu environment for example driver xxxxx xxxxx grd emu xxxxx emu notes only test grn grn and vesa grn other drivers are not tested have modified grn support bits display you don need use vesa driver grn doesn work please try vesa grn for those who want use hicolor truecolor display please use vesa grn except users you can find vesa bios driver from wuarchive wustl edu mirrors msdos graphics godzilla cgl rmit kjb mgl command line switch usage display display initial display type sort sort method display type svga default hicolor truecolor sort method name ext function key change disk drive ctrl ctrl change disk drive change filename mask see match doc change parameters some effects picture flip rotate make directory tag file tag group files see match doc tag all files untag file untag group files see match doc untag all files ins change display type read screen menu move file alt move single file ignore tag delete file alt delete single file ignore tag rename file copy file alt copy single file ignore tag display first bytes ascii hex and dec modes display disk free space page down move one page tab change processing target arrow keys home end page page down scroll image home left most end right most page top most page down bottom most screen effect menu left right arrow change display type bits ctrl arrow keys crop image one line graphics mode slide show show tagged files escape terminate batch conversion convert tagged files single format wait pause slide show alt quit program without prompting alt reread directory escape abort function and return support format read gif gif japan mag mag japan pic pic sun raster ras jpeg jpg xbm xbm utah rle rle pbm pbm pgm pgm ppm ppm pcx pcx japan mki mki tiff tif targa tga xpm xpm mac paint mac gem img img iff ilbm lbm window bmp bmp qrt ray tracing qrt mac pict pct vis vis pds pds viking vik vicar vic fits fit usenix face fac iris sgi the extensions are standard extensions write gif sun raster jpeg xbm pbm pgm ppm tiff targa xpm mac paint ascii laser jet iff ilbm window bmp mac pict vis fits face pcx gem img iris all read write support full color bits grey scale dither and bits image allowed for that format detail initialization set default display type highest display type find allowable screen resolution for grn video driver only when you run this program you will enter read menu whthin this menu you can press any function key you move copy files you will enter write menu the write menu much like read menu but only allow you change directory the header line read menu includes display type number files number tagged files pressing space read menu will let you select which format use for reading current file pressing return read menu will let you reading current file this program will automatically determine which format this file the procedure first check magic number fail check standard extension still fail report error pressing read menu will slide show delay time program will wait until you hit key except escape any error occurs program will make beep pause any key continue escape terminate pressing ins read menu will change display type pressing alt read menu will quit program without prompting pressing will turn effect menu once image file successfully read you will enter screen menu you can special effect image pressing return show image graphic mode press return space escape return text mode pressing tab change processing target this program allows you special effects bit bit image pressing left right arrow change display type bits pressing space save current image file dither save black white image bit grey scale save grey image bits full color save color image bits true color save bit image this program will ask you some questions you want write image file some questions are format dependent finally this program will prompt you filename you want save file under another directory other than current directory please press space after pressing space you will enter write menu you can change directory what you want then pressing space this program will prompt you original filename pressing return this program will prompt you selected filename filename under bar this program supports bits display this program memory greedy you don have enough memory the performance poor you want save bits image try gif then tiff lzw then targa then sun raster then bmp then you want save bits image lossless try tiff lzw targa ilbm sun raster one better for true bits image recommend jpeg for storing bits images even bits images not all subroutines are fully tested this document not well written you have any problem suggestion comment about this program please send bicmos nctu edu need your suggestion improve this program there anonymous ftp this site tech information program user interface and some subroutines written jih shin some subroutines are borrowed from and pbmplus dec tiff and jpeg reading writing are through public domain libraries compiled with djgpp you can get whole djgpp package from simtel mirror sites for example wuarchive wustl edu mirrors msdos djgpp for thoese who want modify video driver get grx source code from simtel mirror sites for hicolor and truecolor bits colors set bits colors set bits colors set acknowledgment would like thank the authors and pbmplus for their permission let use their subroutines also will thank the authors who write tiff and jpeg libraries thank without djgpp can any thing jih shin bicmos nctu edu
comp.graphics	calculating regular polyhedra vertices interested copy this code you run across mail the author bounced hpldsla comp graphics ricky vnet ibm com rick turner may fooled around with this problem few years ago and implemented simple method that ran was very simple about lines code somewhere still have and could dig out there was interest rick dan conway dconway hpsid sid com
comp.graphics	siggraph online experimental publication available rich brandwein writes article may bert eecs uic edu rsc siggraph org steve cunningham writes computer graphics experimental special online issue may the may experimental special issue computer graphics online set files the siggraph org system the directory ftp publications may online this made available the computer graphics community acm siggraph the general theme this issue electronic documents and the table contents the aboutthisissue files will tell you more about this publication and its contents ftp here but found nothing has this been removed nope still there ftp siggraph org connected siggraph org siggraph org ftp server version tue apr cdt ready name siggraph org rsc anonymous guest login send mail address password password welcome siggraph org machine maintained for acm siggraph volunteers service the active computer graphics community ftp publications may online cwd command successful ftp port command successful opening ascii mode data connection for file list aboutthisissue kappe maurer skip tappan russell gonzalez rosenblum bossomaier green announcements calendar contacts index read transfer complete bytes received seconds kbytes ftp
comp.graphics	cgm garphics viewer wanted currently looking for viewer for computer graphics metafile cgm pictures please inform about shareware freeware version thnx remco jorna kub
comp.graphics	pov ray related group needed hed cats ucsc edu magic fingers writes article may exucom com cyberman exucom com stephen phillips writes takes making alt group then why not been following this thread for what has been two months now the alt hierarchie created for purposes for groups which not fit under the comp other official hierarchies for the fast creation hot new newsgroups like alt gulf war because there voting process any other control facilities sites are free decide not carry some the alt groups therefore think desirable try create comp graphics raytrace rendering whatever and not alt group wouter
comp.graphics	bit planes could anyone please explain what bit planes are have sgi here work that says has bit planes what does this mean how does this relate graphics what they usually have please reply via email most this group over head thanks advance bob gruen structural dynamics research corp cincinnati ohio
comp.graphics	help article ddtopper dundee ncr com stephenc says studio there any way create refraction diffraction etc want simulate such things glass lenses bottles etc there might ipas routine that does that but can sure another way render the scene without the glass object and save the image then assign that image your glass object reflection will take lot adjusting for position and size the reflection but that the only thing can think
comp.graphics	input devices greetings all does anyone use some form input device would like hear any information any systems that people are currently using please email responses will summarise get some feedback brendan langoulant brendan uwa edu
comp.graphics	cfp int symp computer and information sciences call for papers the eighth international symposium computer and information sciences iscis viii november antalya turkey organized ehei ecole des hautes etudes informatique paris france metu middle east technical university ankara turkey cooperation with ieee computer society turkey chapter ieee turkey section and the following universities bogazici ege hacettepe istanbul teknik yildiz iscis advisory board arkun gelenbe halici harmanci inan karsligil kuru yalabik yarimagan yilmaz conference chair program chairs publicity chair erol gelenbe gun ibm usa ugur halici metu duke university usa onvural ibm usa halici metu edu erol egr duke edu quinton irisa france halici trmetu bitnet program committee akman turkey alpaydin turkey arkun turkey aybay turkey bilgen turkey dogac turkey dogramaci turkey fdida france fourneau france gelenbe usa gonenc turkey halici turkey harmanci turkey inan turkey jaehnischen germany kuru turkey nivat france paschos france pekergin france perrot france raynal france stafylopatis greece stamon france ucoluk turkey yalabik turkey publicity committee isik aybay osman basbugoglu semih bilgen emin germen mert sungur iscis viii the eighth series meetings which have brought together computer scientists and engineers from about twenty countries this year conference will held the beautiful mediterranean resort city antalya region rich natural well historical sites research papers are sought the following areas theory computer science computer architecture systems artificial intelligence neural networks graphics and image processing computational mathematics operations research applications databases performance evaluation software engineering computer networks parallelism paper submission full papers are limited pages and short communications are limited pages submit five camera ready copies one original and four copies the paper and accompanying letter postal mail only arrive june iscis viii attn drs levent gun and raif onvural ibm box research triangle park usa selected papers from iscis viii will published the journal information sciences elsevier north holland poster submission submit five camera ready copies page extended abstract with accompanying letter july the address given above information for required writing format further information and announcements contact iscis viii ugur halici dept electrical and electronics eng metu ankara turkey tel ext fax email iscis metu edu iscis trmetu bitnet
comp.graphics	help reconstruction new imaging and advisor and would like some reconstructions take slides biological and image them then the software allows trace the outline the objects want save the outlines are stored tiff file would like convert group these outlines into image are unsure where begin someone mentioned that could convert the tiff into vector format then could view them autocad any help would greatly appreciated pankaj oberoi spedhead athena mit edu
comp.graphics	tiff recently read book that the tiff version specification was due released the spring interested finding out about the new features the tiff spec and out specifically need know tiff supports decompression and image tiling
comp.graphics	image format conversion tool hello does anyone know image format conversion tool that will convert raw bit grey scale image gif tif format would great the tool ran was windows application and supported other formats but happy with anything that works attn code robert lafollette dahlgren division naval surface warfare center dahlgren autovon fax email rlafoll duchamp nswc navy mil rlafoll
comp.graphics	what this file from article suntv watson mtsu edu csjohn watson mtsu edu john wallace got this animation file with extension what this are there anu dos programs which will run this file thanks the file archive containing individual frames pieces frames usually stored pic clp files fonts and txt file that tells the grasp animation system how display stands for grasp library there probably detailed discussion this subject the alt binaries pictures faq there are freely distributable viewers for files and they are usually named grasprt exe replace the with version digit letter most files contain frames that are hardware specific particular modes the cga ega vga adapters pcs think that there are some copies grasprt available anonymous ftp know that got one there long time ago good luck jack jack stephenson main mail stephenson isuv interlan com racal datacom alternate mail stephens souv interlan com box lauderdale usa phone
comp.graphics	vga graphics library article mwca uucp bill mwca uucp bill sheppard writes many high end graphics cards come with source code for doing basic graphics sorts things change colors draw points lines polygons fills etc does such library exist for generic vga graphics cards chips hopefully the public domain this would for the purpose compiling under non dos operating system running standard also interested info both public domain and commercial graphics library package vga graphics currently working realtime application running pcc with non dos kernel that needs some simple graphics not sure reentrancy the graphics library going issue not suspect implement the display controller server process that handles graphics requests queued mailbox one time this provides sufficiently frequent display updates then believe that can restrict all graphics operations performed the server and thus constrain access the library this single process and avoid the need for reentrant graphics library being fairly new the realtime systems world may overlooking something what you think cheers bob fitzsimmons fitz cse ogi edu
comp.graphics	lookin form model loom folks doing animated film new methodes loom research you know the thing they make cloth with and need model loom the format should ascii faceted geometry and fairly straight forward figure out any help pointers would greatly appreciated thanks rick boykin rick boykin rboykin cscsparc larc nasa gov computer sciences corporation hampton maybe could fly and feed arachnid die tom marshall
comp.graphics	input devices hello interested those devices too could also send your suggestions thank advance regards martin vicente mail vicente cenaath cena dgac tph centre etudes navigation aerienne div support informatique developpement
comp.graphics	oriented bounding box generation looking for code that will generate minimum volume oriented bounding box for arbitrary polyhedron anyone know such code why converting objects from one modelling system into another and the destination system object oriented want represent each object its own coordinate system that its bounding box with the objects then translated and rotated appropriately this being the representation used the destination system john nagle
comp.graphics	ray bezier intersection problem some kind person has access mathematical package such mathematica maple would like ask you for the solution the following problem sometimes have algebra problems like this where would like simplified symbolic solution there ftp able package out there that can handle such beasts would like solve the following ray bezier patch intersection for the scalar constant origin point dir vector terms only and various scalars origin dir where particular case particular case for particular case control points space thanx chuck elwood reston ingr com
comp.graphics	anonymous ftp sites for graphics can someone please give couple names anonymous ftp sites that cater graphics looking for info sources images for building ray tracer thanks robert woolridge robertw clovis pen tek com
comp.graphics	point polygon routine needed andrew lewis tepper andrew cmu edu writes don know this routine standard just came with recently for polygon points and point make table follows angle from angle from angle from express all angles angle add all entries the table the sum the point outside the sum the point inside the point xpi you have strange polygon any angle was the point the border think known but neat can extended john nagle
comp.graphics	pov ray related group needed hed cats ucsc edu magic fingers writes article may exucom com cyberman exucom com stephen phillips writes takes making alt group then why not been following this thread for what has been two months now the alt hierarchie created for purposes for groups which not fit under the comp other official hierarchies for the fast creation hot new newsgroups like alt gulf war because there voting process any other control facilities sites are free decide not carry some the alt groups therefore think desirable try create comp graphics raytrace rendering whatever and not alt group wouter very good point there someone out there that working this offer time help manage all myself but yaw are not going hear from over the summer not trying pushy and there being progress made pov mailing list hed advertisement advertisement don miss this one time only sale sale sale sale tech now selling thier now model jed series geek bot this limited time offer reduction from our usual price dollars buy one now don wait sale ends sunday advertisement adveritisement
comp.graphics	raw byte grayscale gif currently have some grayscale image files that are not any standard format they simply contain the bit pixel values would like display these images the conversion gif format would helpful this conversion can take place either unix system and could then download the can anyone suggest where can find software this alternatively may have write own conversion program this case could someone tell where can find the gif format specification please mail directly shayla shannon jpl nasa gov thanks
comp.graphics	graphics software needed hello are looking for graphics package preferably complete with source code that will run our unix operating system sequent running dynix this graphics package must support wide variety character based graphics devices running terminal emulator primarily this point graphics not option this graphics program should possible support these sorts graphics operations minimum requirements complicated axes log linear etc with fairly precise axis labels multi line labels etc major and minor tickmarks axes etc would nice some limited amount color plotting were available the output device supported have copy gnuplot and are currently using but gnuplot has some limitations are looking for something more robust than gnuplot this point looking for information about packages that might solve our problems you have any information please contact the above email address the product you know about commercial software package please send phone number email address that can contact them about pricing etc annette koontz battelle pacific northwest richland usa
comp.graphics	pov ray related group needed may gmt wlieftin liefting said liefting hed cats ucsc edu magic fingers writes article may exucom com cyberman exucom com stephen phillips writes takes making alt group then why not been following this thread for what has been two months now liefting the alt hierarchie created for purposes for liefting groups which not fit under the comp other official liefting hierarchies for the fast creation hot new newsgroups liefting like alt gulf war liefting because there voting process any other control liefting facilities sites are free decide not carry some liefting the alt groups liefting therefore think desirable try create liefting comp graphics raytrace rendering whatever and not liefting alt group plus many sites especially many com sites not carry any alt newsgroups don for example comp group will get much broader distribution and would useful many more people plus the topic important popular enough warrant its own group imho kent dalton email kent dalton ftcollinsco ncr com ncr microelectronics phone danfield fax fort collins colorado does someone from peoria have shorter attention span than
comp.graphics	adobe type manager what good the subject says all bought adobe type manager and find completely useless ftped some atm fonts and couldn install them what the use are you supposed able convert atm fonts truetype there anyone out there who has this program and actually finds useful enlighten pete
comp.graphics	products handle hdtv moving pircture sec kazsato twics writes like know there any system cpu array framebuffer which can play and record hdtv quality moving picture realtime hdtv has about frame recording playing moving picture will need about sec bandwidth thinking treat the raw data not compressed actually for digital hdtv systems that far higher bandwidth than you need unless there some reason you must work fully uncompressed hdtv also calculations that each frame should well under even using bits pixel which more bits than you actually need should enough for moving picture bits guessing hdtv resolution may bit wider than fairly sure the number for most the digital proposals hope you have very fast memory system well while displaying will require heavily interleaved vram system unless you have very compelling reason advise trying use least somewhat compressed data you don have full compression get level where the data requirements are much cheaper and easier deal with gnu emacs lisp operating system disguised word processor doug mohney comp arch randell jesup jack quite few trades commodore engineering jesup cbmvax commodore com rutgers cbmvax jesup bix rjesup disclaimer nothing say anything other than personal opinion
comp.graphics	video memory hello have posted this newsgroup once before and recieved moderately helpful response couple issues this appreciated very much would however like know why that ther simply information out there some subjects for the relativly novice graphics programmer the subjects are how you access the extra video memory video board know somwhere there aresome standard video bios calls that allow you dothis have meg memory board and according all the books and info have read only maximum using there way this standard vga cause have seen vidoe paging written assembly which don know written into apps hat use mode get any speed all you have this how the vesa standard what gives here have read most what the net has offer vesa and far coding for vesa goes most the advice cryptic best where get public domain info that will tell mostly plain english how the vesa calls work biggest gripe about number have bought graphics books have asked graphics professors have hunted the net through both gopher and archie ahave asked apps programmers and like there some lock this information graphics programming books tell alot programmiing algorithm information but they always fall short telling you how really control the video bios what are all the calls folks know there are people out there that know how doall tis stuff where are you and why haven you written book yet please help thanks advance stephen palm palm snycanva bitnet please send all personal replies the above address thanks
comp.graphics	products handle hdtv moving pircture sec how does the bit color hdtv work can not bit red green and blue like the macintosh this gives only gray levels apple also has developed point point network that around not sure bits bytes per sec povl pedersen macintosh specialist knows some dos and unix too pope imv aau povlphp uts uni finger pope imv aau for pgp public key
comp.graphics	where did the hacker ethic vinci filipe vxcrna cern wrote article may hal com bobp hal com bob pendleton writes from article may pony ingres com mwmeyer ingres com mike wading through the muck and meyer article may hal com bobp hal com bob pendleton writes this getting pretty silly first off hacker obsolete term doesn matter what used mean today means thief only means thief you want mean that means lots context wickedly omitted myself anyway say joe hacker most english speaking people who know the word they probably think either poor golfer bad carpenter but there are very very few people who will think good and clever programmer you chose call yourself term that means thief don surprised when people think you are thief even you don agree with that definition the word the narrower view that hacker when associated with the computing environment dishonest expert not widespread opinion least with the people involved with the field imho the wider meaning not obsolete all matter how much the lay press would like therefore conclude that you call yourself hacker and somebody perceives you thief then this person belongs very very small group that has some computer knowledge but not enough know the wider and original meaning the word unfortunately the general public has very narrow view the deep dark recesses the art computing what little they see from the view given them the media from what have seen from the media hacker not proper way which refer respected person the other hand know what hacker means from those who consider themselves such following the definition from jargon file this also known the hackers dictionary the definitions are arranged order decreasing frequency usage hacker originally someone who makes furniture with axe person who enjoys exploring the details programmable systems and how stretch their capabilities opposed most users who prefer learn only the minimum necessary one who programs enthusiastically even obsessively who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming person capable appreciating hack value person who good programming quickly expert particular program one who frequently does work using unix hacker definitions through are correlated and people who fit them congregate expert enthusiast any kind one might astronomy hacker for example one who enjoys the intellectual challenge creatively overcoming circumventing limitations deprecated malicious meddler who tries discover sensitive information poking around hence password hacker network hacker see cracker the term hacker also tends connote membership the global community defined the net see network the and internet address also implies that the person described seen subscribe some version the hacker ehic see hacker ethic the better described hacker others than describe oneself that way hackers consider themselves something elite meritocracy based ability though one which new members are gladly welcome there thus certain ego satisfaction had identifying yourself hacker but you claim one and are not you quickly labeled bogus see also wannabee hacker ethic the the belief that information sharing powerful positive good and that ethical duty hackers share their expertise writing free software and facilitating access information and computing resources wherever possible the belief that system cracking for fun and exploration ethically long the cracker commits theft vandalism breach confidentiality both these normative ethical principles are widely but means universally accepted among hackers most hackers subscribe the hacker ethic sense and many act writing and giving away free software few further and assert that all information should free and any proprietary control bad this the philosophy behind the gnu project sense more controversial some people consider the act cracking itself unethical like breaking and entering but this principle least moderates the behavior people who see themselves benign crackers see also samurai this view one the highest forms hackerly courtesy break into system and then explain the sysop preferably email from superuser account exactly how was done and how the hole can plugged acting unpaid unsolicited tiger team the most reliable manifestation either version the hacker ethic that almost all hackers are actively willing share technical tricks software and where possible computing resources with other hackers huge cooperative networks such usenet fidonet and internet see internet address can function without central control because this trait they both rely and reinforce sense community that may hackerdom most valuable intangible asset finally true hacker does not name himself herself one for this title that bestowed the befuddled sysadmins and users large sign truly great hacker introduced someone who says nahh just know thing two people always exagerate note that the above definition does not preclude hacker from describing limself meaning himself herself one but simply says that better not there are many who not know the meaning hacker order defend the true meaning the word sometimes necessary borrow the reputation known respected hacker around the workplace this means that hacker defined terms some well known and respected person sometimes there may only one such person matter what dumpty says language doesn work that way actually does you just have get adequate press coverage language works anyway that want work the purpose language communicate oversimplify long communication taking place then language working include stddisclaimer amiga the computer for the creative mind commodore weber state macintosh the computer for the rest apple university think therefore amiga val csulx weber edu ogden usa
comp.graphics	iges and formats trying find out anything can about available documentation for iges and arc info formats you know anything about these formats just one please send note don read this group please send responses mike prc utexas edu thank you mike kline
comp.graphics	adobe type manager what good menchett dws unr edu peter menchetti writes the subject says all bought adobe type manager and find completely useless ftped some atm fonts and couldn install them what the use are you supposed able convert atm fonts truetype there anyone out there who has this program and actually finds useful enlighten pete there are some tricks installing atm windows install them first dos then run the atm control panel get them into windows the best reason for atm that adobe the standard truetype failed venture undercut adobe when adobe was being nasty about keeping their formats proprietary just about any service bureau print shop will smirk and send you your way you bring truetype document them for high resolution printing ripping although there are lots pretty fonts floating around they are really for dot matrix your own lazer printer however you can convert your fonts with fontmonger some similar program atm fonts for high end stuff you are using dot matrix for all your printing you may have wasted your money dave
comp.graphics	how print out ncar cgm file have lots cgm files produced ncar graph utility they are all color graphs and want print them out the printers own are postscript and anyone who have experiences this please tell mail will very nice someone knows how convert those cgm files into gif pcx bmp will helps lot
comp.graphics	needed non interactive gif cropper for have group gif images that each contain small images the same place all the images need program crop out the small images new gif file all the programs can find make use the mouse keyboard define the cropping coordinates there program out there for that can take the crop coordinates the command line reply max slinky nyu edu david max
comp.graphics	dec graphics tools applying for nsf grant buy equipment for laboratory the lab will need support pascal with graphics tools can run the lab either dec equipment you are familiar with appropriate products software hardware and precise prices please contact shai lcc stonehill edu are interested any available acadmic discounts also anyone runs lab using similar software hardware would very interested hearing your opinions its success thanks shai simonson stonehill college easton
comp.graphics	email address ithaca hoops ithaca technical support can reached tech support ithaca com phone eric wagner asel ithaca software skylane eric ithaca com oakland flyers
comp.graphics	head model not again groan sorry post question which seems crop quite regularly this group however have yet get specific and usefull context answer where can get hold data for head what looking for simple polyon description head face which can easily converted for used with pov raytracer polygons well placing file ftp today that contains several polygonal descriptions head face skull vase etc the format the files list vertices normals and triangles there are various resolutions and the name the data file includes the number polygons phred vbl contains polygons order get the data via ftp the following ftp taurus nps navy mil login anonymous guest the password pub dabro binary get cyber tar once you get the data onto your workstation uncompress data tar tar xvof data tar you have any questions please let know george dabro dabro taurus nps navy mil george dabrowski cyberware labs dabro taurus nps navy mil
comp.graphics	piclab processing half gif been playing with program called piclab modify some gif files the problem keeps displaying only the image starting from the top displays leaves blank then down another etc anyone know what doing wrong there another piece software should use instead thanks for your tolerance
comp.graphics	cgm files article meyer may ibsen geomatic meyer geomatic harald martens meyer writes the only book found the cgm format cgm and cgi arnold bono from springer verlag isbn not the best book read though well there the standards document from the faq how order standards documents the american national standards institute sells ansi standards and also iso international standards their sales office mailing address broadway helps you have the complete name and number some useful numbers know cgm computer graphics metafile iso gks graphical kernel system ansi you want viewer try downloading ralcgm from unix hensa misc unix ralcgm ralcgm tar you might also want look gplot from the folks the pittsburgh supercomputer center fish around calpe psc edu pretty nifty spl steve lamont sciviguy spl szechuan ucsd edu san diego microscopy and imaging resource san diego jolla naked lunch natural eat reality sandwiches but allegories are much lettuce don hide the madness allen ginsberg
comp.graphics	help there here looking for some help friend interior decor designer from thailand trying find some graphics software any suggestion which software buy where buy and how much costs likes the most sophisticated software the more features has the better thanks advance
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why mouse jumpy mouse article apr cti com rlister cti com russell lister writes from rlister cti com russell lister subject why mouse jumpy mouse date fri apr gmt ecktons ucs byu edu sean eckton writes have microsoft serial mouse and using mouse com was using think but switched see was any better vertical motion nice and smooth but horizontal motion bad sometimes can click something because mouse jumps around can moving the mouse the right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly for bit then jump the right then move smoothly for bit then jump again maybe this time the left about inch this crazy have never had much trouble with mouse before anyone have any solutions does microsoft think they are what everyone should just venting steam seen this problem several times was always the result the little rollers inside the mouse becomming dirty they are good collecting grime the solution simple remove the ball reveal the two rollers carefully clean them and the ball dennis
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	dos window macros article apr csd newshost stanford edu herrod stanford edu stephen herrod writes does anyone know program that will record keyboard sequences that windowed dos box would like have something that starts telnet program and then logs into accounts windows recorder doesn seem able record the key sequences thanks steve think you would need dos macro program superkey borland comes mind don think windows capable sending keystrokes dos window what you want sounds like security problem though tom paladin world std com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	program manager problem does anyone know how configure dos app progman that only one instance can running time really appreciate some help how this would prefer responses through email not big deal least through email well posting thank you james lee jelee hamlet ucdavis edu swear life and love that will never live for the sake another man nor ask another man live for mine john galt atlas shrugged
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	actix video card drivers for windows apr jarvis csri toronto edu wongda eecg toronto edu daniel wong writes looking for the latest drivers for the actix graphics accelerator card the driver currently using version and doesn support more than colors mode even you have memory the bbs support for actix unbelievable they are still using bps modem will take you hours download the drivers hurts when you are calling long distance there any ftp site that has collection video drivers for windows btw anyone using this card and how you like far good but where are these drivers daniel wong uoft anybody actix listening upload the dang drivers ftp site pleeeeeeese cheers kym kym burgemeister department mechanical engineering university adelaide south australia facs mail kburg aelmg adelaide edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	postscript dpi using windows printer driver would like print file with output postscript file later would like take this postscript file machine with attached hewlett packard laser printer and print the document dots per inch resolution would like use this method print from wordperfect for windows and from image processing program that can output images postscript here the problem the windows postscript printer driver pscript drv doesn allow specify dpi fact the setup dialog for this driver does have pull down menu for resolution but the only choice given the menu not really useful menu any ideas david arnstein arnstein iis sun com international imaging systems milpitas california
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	workspace managers for win locations article apr bert eecs uic edu you write cah tactix rain com chris huey writes jamie scuglia jamie zikzak apana org wrote thanks all those people who recommended workspace managers for windows found shareware workspace managers from australia windows archive monu monash edu which mirrors some sites the the three found were workspaces wspace zip review deleted workshift wrksft zip review deleted bigdesk and backmenu backdesk zip review deleted really appreciate this information however given that don have direct internet access which means don have archie access must resort using ftpmail this means that need the site name and the directory where these workspace managers are located backdesk zip cica but not sure the whole directory another throw into the running topdesk alsow cica but not sure where more complicated then backdesk but found more stable and more usefull recomend people who have already used virtual desktop yeh free copyright microsoft and sanford staab carl zmola cicero spc uchicago edu here are some usefull applications and locations and other cica mirrors the desktop directory wrksft zip wokshift graphical virtual desktop ver email author about version desk zip desktop tools for windows backmenu bigdesk later version than backdesk topdesk zip virtual windows for windows finder zip mac finder clone for windows works well with backmenu also look out for superbar due out soon allows button bars added almost any application paul blackman pwb science canberra edu water research centre pwb aerg canberra edu faculty applied science university canberra australia spend little love and get high lenny kravitz
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	setting slip client under dos and windows long have been posting monthly how setup slip client posts for few months lots work and imminent graduation have come the way posting one these for march earlier this month for which apologize this file includes information writing script for university minnesota phone and also batch file hack that lets you use other packet drivers with phone for additions modifications and corrections can reached ashok biochemistry cwru edu best wishes ashok begin slip txt based experiences setting slip under dos and windows here are comments setting slip this environment thank the trumpet beta testers and the cwru slip beta testers for their comments configuring your modem turn off dtr have disable dtr because the communication program that use dial slip server qmodem drops dtr when exit the program and therefore hangs the line you use program like kermit conex establish the slip connection then this need not done these programs not necessarily hangup the line when you exit note you use univ minn phone dial and establish slip connection you not need turn off dtr dial and establish the slip connection first this can done automatically you use program like phone from the university minnesota which will dial and establish slip connection then load the slip packet driver the phone scripting language simple and phone scripts can easily written configure phone work with other slip server addition while the only packet driver that phone works with umslip currently easy write batch file hack that lets phone work with other packet drivers there section phone the document with both script and batch file examples configuring the slip drivers there are five slip packet drivers commonly available cslipper exe peter tattam compressed slip driver slipper exe peter tattam slip driver slip com crynwr driver like phil burn modified driver ethersl com crynwr driver ethernet simulation over slip umslip com univ minnesota driver based slip these four vastly prefer slipper exe over slip com ethersl com for the following reasons much faster even though modem has just uart while using etherslip slip umslip myself and several others have noticed that the clock gets messed after performing long ftp transfer supports pktmux when used ethernet simulation mode when used ethernet simulation mode slipper seem work with every tcp application that have tested with instructions for slipper exe and you not use phone load slipper your autoexec bat file according instructions for instance you have bis modem com slipper com vec baud you use dos tcp applications win dos boxes then use the double ended packet driver shim winpkt com this creates virtual packet driver dos applications native mode dos applications windows dos boxes and windows applications can all use this virtual driver winpkt com you use qvt net load pktint com next qvt net configured qvtnet ini use the interrupt pktint com instructions for slip com try getting version slip driver philip burns northwestern university has modified slip com driver that better hardware handshaking this driver distributed along with nupop load the driver after establishing the slip connection modem bis modem com here how would load the driver slip slip discussed above you use dos tcp applications windows dos boxes you probably want use winpkt com winpkt com you use winqvt net load pktint com pktint com instructions for ethersl com you choose use ethersl com instead slip com the instructions are exactly the same with one crucial difference you will have delete the line device vcd from the enh section system ini this will interfere with running regular windows comm applications such crosstalk and you will get lots dropped characters etc these applications this therefore not recommended etherslip would loaded ethersl configuring windows make the following modifications the system ini file enh section list all your com ports with their addresses and interrupts com base com irq com base com irq com base com irq this can also done from within windows control panel but double clicking the ports icon give the port which your modem attached generous com buffer com buffer iii change the com port autoassign value for the com port that you wish use for your modem zero this the amount time that windows waits seconds before handing control that com port another application you use winqvt net and then want switch from one session another and this value the default value seconds you are will get gpf and windows will crash com autoassign this can also done from within windows control panel double click enhanced and under device contention set the device contention for the com port your modem never warn additional notes what you are assigned different address for each slip session fortunate that our campus slip server assigns each user permanent address not have worry about editing qvtnet ini each time that establish slip connection you are assigned new address every occasion that you dial please try use bootp aware software and let bootp the configuration for you however qvtnet not bootp aware and rarp will not work over slip connection get qvtnet working situation such this you must the following edit the qvtnet ini file let the net section look like this net name netmask whatever appropriate for you arptime packet vector whatever appropriate save the changes and then write protect this file attrib qvtnet ini start your slip connection and remember the name and address that you are assigned each time you start qvt net the general configuration dialog box will open enter the name and address and you were assigned for that session click and you should and running the changes you make will not saved qvtnet ini write protected more elegant solution the problem dynamic slip address assignment provided victor menayang victor ccwf utexas edu victor uses the program bootpq semi automate qvtnet preparation bootpq used inquire the assigned which then saved file called myip another file noip essentially complete qvtnet ini file that lacks the address the final step myip and noip are copied into single qvtnet ini file example victor batch file provided below slipper com pktint com bootpq myip bootpq copy net myip noip com qvtnet qvtnet ini del myip echo off echo echo ready run winqvtnet for questions and more details about bootpq please contact victor menayang victor ccwf utexas edu qpc software attempting add bootp capability winqvt net how you use pktmux over slip pktmux will not work over the slip com packet driver and crashes immediately used with ethersl com pktmux will work with slipper exe when slipper used ethernet simulation mode example this configuration shown below the latest release pktmux and important that you use this version you want use virtual packet drivers with applications like trumpet for windows released very shortly from autoexec bat slipper com vec baud ether packet driver pktmux pktmux loaded for virtual packet drivers pktdrv first virtual packet driver used for qvt net pktint com qvt net pktint com pktdrv pktdrv for use native dos wintrumpet additional virtual packet drivers can loaded directly from within windows dos boxes for example pif file load popmail directed the file popmail bat this what popmail bat reads like pktdrv loads virtual packet driver popmail popmail pktdrv unloads the packet driver exit causes the dos window close have similar batch files that load other dos tcp applications like gopher experience that pktmux works fine even the virtual packet drivers two independent virtual dos sessions are loaded the same software interrupt for example within two different dos boxes one for popmail and the other for gopher the virtual packet driver pktdrv loaded each instance how much does pktmux degrade the performance slipper have bis bis modem running windows with reasonably fast video card ati graphics ultra under these conditions when have three virtual packet drivers loaded and being used follows driver qvtnet ftp client session driver one dos window cutcp session driver another dos window trumpet for dos get ftp transfer rates sec while transferring compressed files this rate comparable that which get with slip loaded packet driver and where single tcp session active cslipper used packet driver and single session active get transfer rates sec the same files while there about degradation the performance slipper for the benefits being able use pktmux outweigh the performance hit slipper and ethernet simulation mode ethernet simulation mode slipper ver works with all the applications that have tested with one two applications that required ethernet simulation balked slipper but even these rare problems have been resolved with ver when slipper used ethernet simulation mode and used with pktmux get some error message the qvtnet console window that reads incorrect packet type bad version number this does not seem prevent qvtnet from functioning although cannot comment loss performance what can you your dos tcp application does not work with slipper ethernet simulation mode the rare event that you find package that does not work with slipper ethernet simulation mode first contact the author peter tattam peter psychnet psychol utas edu and let him know chances are that can fix the meanwhile you can try the following not know kosher but worked when had problems with slipper ver slipper loaded described above under the pktmux section load ethersl com run the application and then terminate ethersl com this also works within windows virtual dos boxes however packet driver like ethersl can used only one virtual dos box time for example here batch file run grateful med medical reference retrieval program developed the national library medicine ethersl loads etherslip search termin terminates etherslip exit closes the dos box and returns windows you use this method cautious about one thing don have any active pktmux dos sessions open the same time after closing the ethersl window you can run your pktmux dos sessions with problem btw the example above grateful med works with problems with slipper ver phone script files the documentation that accompany phone provide good instructions writing script files get phone dial slip servers other than the university minnesota server for example here script that use dial cisco server the university that attend background start slip connection dial our terminal server and login with username and password after doing start slip session with the following command slip username slip dialin cwru edu followed password again here then the relevant portion the phone cmd script file cwru slip login script ashok aiyar last revised procedure host cwru login timeout cwru terminal server not responding message cwru slip login script version message waiting for slip server respond quiet expect verification message request for user verification received from cwru message sending your user name and password quiet off expect username send expect password private send reject access denied your user name password was not accepted timeout slip server did not respond your validation request expect cwru send slip timeout slip server did not respond slip command expect hostname address send slip dialin cwru edu timeout slip server did not respond hostname reject bad address incorrect hostname expect password send reject access denied password not accepted timeout expect header compression will match your system message login cwru slip server successful wait endprocedure host cwru login procedure host cwru logout nothing special needs done logout endprocedure host cwru logout end script file how use packet drivers other than umslip with phone the quick answer there clean way below batch file hack that wrote use phone with other packet drivers this example the packet driver peter tattam cslipper use batch file like this you must know the parameters with which you plan use the packet driver interrupt vector baud rate port address and irq this batch file requires umslip com cslipper exe and termin com the same directory your path all that the batch file does let you dial the slip connection using phone load the appropriate packet driver hangup the connection and unload the driver when you are done being cwruslip bat echo off rem this batch file ugly hack minn slip bat rem awaiting version slipper that can directly interact rem with phone rem cwruslip bat file used with phone exe start slip rem connection cwru rem last modified ashok aiyar echo off cls goto start start goto help help goto help setup goto setup dial goto forced hangup goto forceh quit goto forceh help goto help setup goto setup dial goto forced quit goto forceh goto bogus goto unload forceh termin umslip nul phone force hangup goto unload slipper termin rem the following line must changed reflect the com port rem irq baud rate and software interrupt packet cslipper com vec baud ether goto end forced termin umslip nul phone force dial goto slipper setup termin umslip nul phone setup goto help unload termin goto end bogus echo not valid command echo try cwruslip help for list valid commands echo help echo echo case western reserve university slip setup echo using univ minnesota phone echo echo cwruslip setup modem settings phone number username etc echo echo cwruslip dial dial and establish the slip connection echo cwruslip quit hangup the phone and unload the driver echo cwruslip help this screen echo end end cwruslip bat where get what peter tattam programs are archived ftp utas edu slipper and the trumpet set programs winqvt net generally archived most windows ftp sites including ftp cica indiana edu ncsa telnet archived ftp ncsa uiuc edu nupop archived ftp acns nwu edu popmail slipdisk phone and gopher are archived boombox micro umn edu end slip txt ashok aiyar mail ashok biochemistry cwru edu department biochemistry tel cwru school medicine cleveland ohio fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	please refresh internet access compuserve article syshtg gsusgi gsu edu syshtg gsusgi gsu edu tom gillman writes cheong solomon technet scstech admin writes sometime ago there are some discussions gaining compuserve access thru the internet but seem misplace those articles can someone please refresh where which site can telnet gain access send message compuserve user via internet mail enter the mail mode and address your receiver follows compuserve com the number the receiver compuserve number the users number contains comma anything other than period change period
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	msdos prompt problem having really bothersome problem using the msdos prompt windows open dos box when done with the dos box cant get back windows alt enter shrink the box use exit close the screen goes black and have control alt delete until kill windows get couple screens about app not responding think things are still alive under the black screen because alt tab cycle through the running apps get flashes text but then the black returns this persists even the machine powered and off working with app developed using borland application frameworks and seems work fine hardware with meg ram not network video tseng vga dos reinstalled windows couple time but the problem comes back using temporary swapping for virtual memory would really really appreciate any hints anyone might offer thanks jim cant
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	what does the bmp format mean article robertsa unix tcd robertsa unix tcd andrew roberts writes what exactly does the windows bitmap format look like mean how the data stored width height colours bitmap data couldn find anything ths user manual there any other reference material which would give this information thanks andrew well this only guess goes the true meaning bit map then holds where pixel number direction pixel number the dir colour michael panayiotakis louray seas gwu edu ace uunet seas gwu edu louray how make windows grp file reflect directory well ain always right but never been wrong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	newsgroup archive this newsgroup archived anywhere beyond the normal expiration dates say for the last months more thanks tom paladin world std com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	trouble with sound blaster pro drivers article kaz vincent iastate edu kaz iastate edu errington shroud writes recently windows has starting giving the error sound blaster pro requires newer version windows has worked correctly for long time and don know what the problem could thanks had this problem when initially installed sound blaster pro and here what the tech support told they told look for the files that are stated the readme file from the win subdirectory the soudblaster directory now look the system ini file and any them say device xxxxxxx than change device xxxxxxx thats should work was your system ini file erased for some reason that would the only reason that would think that windoes giving you the error now tony annese claebaur shell portal com claebaur cup portal com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	hiragana katakana fonts newsgroups comp windows misc subject hiragana katakana fonts keywords hiragana katakana truetype japanese where can obtain truetype hiragana and katakana japanese phonetic character fonts note can receive mail the address the header but cannot send
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	standard and enhanced question why win sometimes finicky have new dell mhz megs ram windows was working just great had bus mouse and mother board problem dell replaced the mouse gave newer mouse driver for windows and replaced the motherboard just prior this problem windows would only load every other time would get the logo and either would into windows lock this was very consistent every other time now with the new motherboard and all still does the same thing the computer less than one month old first worked fine can get into windows each time now with the win command this forces standard mode things seem run slower mainly use windows apps but standard mode there virtual mem plus slower loaded windows still does the same thing should first delete everything all windows dir did not because have much added sub dir etc really puzzling why enhanced mode would not load each time but consistently every other time standard mode each time any thoughts comments artin this communication sent artin university arizona tucson cleveland freenet edu mlinsenb ccit arizona edu mlinsenb arizvms death has been dead for about years follow the king kings
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	replacement for program manager and file manager there could someone please suggest one the better shareware replacements for win program manager and file manager and which ftp site are they located thanks advance for mail response yuan wiliki eng hawaii edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	video cards with bnc connectors sam uky edu mike mills writes hello just recently bought nec order get the highest possible quality and refresh rates like know there are any accelerator cards with bnc connectors opposed the usual sub connector not know any vga type cards that have bnc outputs but extron sells vga bnc cable set that works good with you are trying optimize the display with good video card try contacting get nine use and like the level card thanks for any information mike mills mail sam uky edu rutgers uunet ukma sam math sciences dept mike ukpr uky edu work home mark marlow marlow world std com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	true type font problem repost please help word doesn show the period centred character indicate spaces use the ttfonts from coreldraw our editors need able see how many spaces are text but the character displayed large hollow box they overlap each other and characters each side which useless believe the character used the period centred this character shows with the windows charmap display the hollow box which tends confirm this have edited the corel font with fontmonger and changing the font graphics for the character makes difference the font output charmap altering the paragraph cedilla does alter their font graphics displayed however the character used indicate spaces the period centred character has anyone been able get this character displayed from coreldraw ttf russ sharp russ deakin edu fax deakin university school engineering technology geelong australia
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows zip unzip are using pkzip and interested hear from people who have used one the many windows programs that call these which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst the rest there full windows version that does not call the dos pkzip pkunzip commands russ sharp russ deakin edu fax deakin university school engineering technology geelong australia
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	boot sometimes fails sometimes when boot windows after the windows logo comes han using dos and doublespace and meg temp swap file uncompressed drive but when press the reset button the computer windows boots fine why this dos matthew gillard blessed are they who run around computer systems engineering circles for they shall trobe university known wheels
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	what does the bmp format mean andrew roberts robertsa unix tcd wrote what exactly does the windows bitmap format look like mean how the data stored width height colours bitmap data couldn find anything ths user manual there any other reference material which would give this information thanks andrew try the windows multimedia development kit has most the file formats defined
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	stealth video drivers article doug sun sws uiuc edu doug sun sws uiuc edu doug ward writes recently purchased diamond stealth video card and received the wrong drivers does anyone know where can ftp the windows video drivers for the stealth tried the drivers cica and they don work the right drivers are the diamond bbs but the file almost meg and would take while download them baud any information would appreciated please contact doug sun sws uiuc edu thank you doug ward have the same problem with diamond stealth vram card daniel
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	driver wanted hello looking for driver for ibm color ink jet printer any pointers are welcome thanks advance ralf huebner informatik uni stuttgart
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	what does the bmp format mean michael panayiotakis louray seas gwu edu wrote article robertsa unix tcd robertsa unix tcd andrew roberts writes what exactly does the windows bitmap format look like mean how the data stored width height colours bitmap data couldn find anything ths user manual there any other reference material which would give this information well this only guess goes the true meaning bit map then holds where pixel number direction pixel number the dir colour come fellows the format quite plainly explained the manuals the programmer reference volume messages structures and macros msc dev kit for should also the borland manuals pages depending what you need first there the bitmapfileheader struct then the bitmapinfo which contains the bitmapinfoheader and the rgbquad and then the bitmap data and there also example among the example files sdk hope this helps yes have some prior knowledge this there nothing dangerous these dragons they are totally harmless but opinion that kicking them might not the right way test shut and run pjsinc sunrise oulu pjsinc phoenix oulu pjsinc tolsun oulu possible that there are some opinions above they must all mine
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	summary canon deskjet hello again about week and one half ago posted query looking for people feelings the inkjet family printers specifically comparison between the canon bubblejet and the hewlett packard deskjet many people asked post the summary account all the postings and mail received below original query and the responses received have not deleted any part the responses only the headers and signatures you can extract what you find necessary some people asked for unbiased account however the very nature the question suggests favoritism and biased comments you must extract the information you believe unbiased and fair representation each printer there are wide range comments each has its own value there was clear winner some like the especially its price performance ratio others preferred the durability and reliability the deskjet the original inkjet with proven drivers and solid background two new inkjet printers have drawn some attention new printer introduced hewlett packard later this year around summertime and addition the epson product line their first inkjet you will find that after the initial purchase the costs filling replacing the ink cartridges are about the same this largely depends where you purchase the fills replacements shop around first since this aspect will most likely dominate the cost your printer one mentioned approx how many sheets each ink cartridge will print but suspect they are roughly equal about sheets laser printers will sheets per toner cartridge well that brief research summary personal research enjoy hello fellow netters asking for your collected wisdom help decide which printer should purchase the canon bubblejet the deskjet thought rather than trust the salesperson would benefit more from relying those who use these printers daily and use them their fullest potential and figure all you will know their benefits and pitfalls better than any salesperson now would greatly appreciate any information you could render the dpi the canon bubblejet the hewlett packard deskjet dpi which faster there noticeable print quality difference particularly graphics which will handle large documents better pages more any personal experience either will appreciated here which works better under windows any driver problems etc cost memory font packages toner cartridges etc basically your personal experiences with either these machines highly desirable both good and bad well bought the about month ago the start their rebate program that printer ends and bought from computer discount warehouse because their price couldn beat anywhere looked and think hot printer just using regular copier paper produced fantastic results just high quality mode compared the output micrografx designer legal size drawing with type done with the same drawing printed laserjet iid and was amazed how well could read the small print the printing speed was several seconds faster the which amazing considering that the has ram installed measured the time from when the printer first indicated was receiving data used print manager windows showed the output several people work and one manager bought one immediately for his office and two other engineers placed their orders too you need cdw phone number delivery was two days good luck craig witkowski ceng maccvm corp mot com motorola communications electronics inc glen rock own deskjet performance isn spectacular under windows using truetype fonts but neither the canon from what have seen quality for the very much dependent paper quality standard photo copy paper the characters have slightly frayed edges but better quality distinction type paper things look better for most applications find copy paper fine still better than dot matrix comes with windows driver which seems pass print manager has few intelli fonts which are scaleable fonts probably faster than truetype but haven really tried them out can get ram font cartridges but unless the speed truetype problem wouldn bother the ram cartridges can used buffer soft fonts only for graphics bmp images etc the can put into dither mode via the supplied win driver there number dither options such scatter pattern etc the manual gives recommendations depending the type image being printed text not good this mode problem arises when you have document which contains both graphic and text the range tones for graphic images isn brilliant but think that more limitation with inkjet printers general from what have seen the canon similar most respects however printer definitely worth looking the new inkjet from epson this printer faster cheaper and capable producing laser like quality normal copier paper can remember the model something think purchased days before the epson was released here the introductory price the epson was the same the here new zealand about month ago got canon absolutely love incredibly fast except for printing from pspice don know you ever stuff with that not most the stuff print either from microsoft word for windows just plain text the only problems had are printing headers footers the printer freaked out and printing cheap paper lots streaks normal copy paper works great with you can only tell not laser printed holding less than twelve inches from your face that you nearsighted like the printer comes with its own driver for windows have other complaints the printer also can act just like some epson another for those archaic software packages that haven written driver for yet the teeny weeny footprint real plus too and you purchase between now and may you get rebate from canon bought mine from store called compusa and the price now have friend who has the you are looking also prints very well and everyone has drivers for but very slow hope helped dpi sure looks great heather stehman article apr schbbs mot com ceng maccvm corp mot com craig witkowski writes message apr csd newshost stanford edu kayman csd stanford edu robert kayman writes hello fellow netters asking for your collected wisdom help decide which printer should purchase the canon bubblejet the deskjet thought rather than trust the salesperson would benefit more from relying those who use these printers daily and use them their fullest potential and figure all you will know their benefits and pitfalls better than any salesperson various questions deleted well bought the about month ago the start their rebate program that printer ends and bought from computer discount warehouse because their price couldn beat anywhere looked and think hot printer just using regular copier paper produced fantastic results just high quality mode compared the output micrografx designer legal size drawing with type done with the same drawing printed laserjet iid and was amazed how well could read the small print the printing speed was several seconds faster the which amazing considering that the has ram installed measured the time from when the printer first indicated was receiving data used print manager windows guess have some experience with both have work and deskjet home prefer the deskjet the printing speed and quality are similar tested both with text and graphics before buying the deskjet for home the feature that sets the deskjet apart the driver support many applications the ends emulating the epson ibm proprinter get work with many non windows apps and this will the case for long time the design superior you just want use cut paper the deskjet quieter and the ink cartridges are quite bit cheaper due the number deskjets out there comparision the bjs just worth mike mattix agricultural group monsanto box luling internet address dmmatt bigez monsanto com yes there the landscape mode printing problem but does not present problem windows the windows printer driver handles the translation actually thought some other points after posted the note the deskjet has unprintable area approximately inch around the paper the bubblejet does not you are right about the graphics resolutions tested the printers with the applications had access wordperfect harvard graphics wingif paintshop pro and paintbrush and could not tell difference fact one the deskjet windows drivers gives you significant control over the contrast and density the printer hence controlling the amount ink you put down the bubblejet did not had imaging software test the printers with and had comparision there finally wanted sheet feeding that configuration the bubblejet cost approximately more than the deskjet went through pretty thorough evaluation and chose the deskjet when spent own money btw replacing the with deskjet work this month anyway regards mike mattix group monsanto luling spent some time comparing the two ended getting the bubblejet versus the our reasons were the seemed have worse banding than the canon dpi versus felt could see the difference price canon has rebate program going the moment the was our choice over the could have pages the feeder the holds only pages think you can see pages the haven done anything big with the but its performance seems reasonable under windows know that the microsoft bbs has newer windows driver than comes with the printer but don know how compares also the driver included with the printer canon whereas don know where the microsoft bbs one comes from microsoft hope this helps thomas frauenhofer yyw tvf cci com uunet uupsi cci tvf tvf rit edu mandlebratwurst the meal that eats itself altough sometimes also salesperson not suppost study would recommend buy the the printing quality bit better but you you got much more possiblities don forget the engine least years the marked the canon engine witch also used other new bubblejet printers like the epson ones quite recently available now would greatly appreciate any information you could render the dpi the canon bubblejet the hewlett packard deskjet dpi which faster there noticeable print quality difference particularly graphics which will handle large documents better seen during short demonstration from someone who tryed sell canon printers times the same picture one printed with the one with the canon the other with the and there was difference printing quality the canon was bit better greetz kris when decided needed quiet printers our hospital looked inkjet printers they have near laser quality speed and they are quiet use both deskjets and the canon prefer the paper handling qualities the deskjets but feel the canons have superior print quality the ideal would canon with sheet feeder however did end buying deskjet for home use got too good deal anyway are using canons high volume areas and they are holding very well out deskjets and have only had one problem with deskjet and that was taken care very quickly nate whenever buy anything look what the experts say pick out the top few and then buy whatever criteria are the most apt been unusually flush lately begging letter please and done this few times including about four months ago with inkjet printers can remember much about the process except that read about three reviews inkjets and that the was always near the top bought the because the added dimension colour intend build multi media machine some stage and have just bought colour scanner towards that although haven used the colour thing earnest yet tried out couple windows bitmaps and was pleased with the result note that even though you can now get the the one with both colour and mono with need change the cartridge the and are still readily available least the the following are views experience don know anything about the canon except that came away from reviews and replies posting similar yours with the idea that the offered the best performance price ratio believe are the originals the field not always the ideal place but the market still young one assumes they have the expertise the worth the extra operation mono perfectly acceptable and get good crisp reproduction fonts from windows used work for monotype when they still manufactured typesetters before their american owners closed them down and can tell you that terms definition dpi pretty poor anyway dpi just bit less poor the comes with reasonable set drivers you buy invest the additional ram pack pretty slow with god knows what like without actually work germany and home the not daily use would say that apart from not reading the manual properly and having really dumb problem the start easy peasy operate hope this use regards david just bought the thought the price couldn beat with rebate thru and far comparable even superior the deskjet print quality speed per page rate seems faster don have figures don print long docs though quality think the graphics quality excellent print quality excellent well unless you use small fonts and hold close you can see lot more jaggies than laserjet the dpi offset little less accuracy holding the page print head place would imagine large docs not room the standard model for whole lotta pages manual says though haven tried drivers problems under win yet winword doesn want print the envelopes the same way the canon does though know nothing add costs daniel hartung dhartung chinet chinet com ask about rotaract the deskjet slow this comparison the other printers mentioned have idea how the bubblejet compares the interface between win and the printer just dandy not had any problems with just bought printer couple days ago compared the sample print deskjet and knew that the wasn for the pretty fast and really prints with good quality can compare with the laserjet iiid postscript and they look almost identical depending the kind paper don have problems with the ink not being dry seems dry very fast probably within second since canon giving rebate until the end may really good buy sean eckton computer support representative college fine arts and communications wow funny you should ask this little behind news reading know this may late just purchased the canon bubblejet last night was really worried that wouldn like but the print quality and noise level fantastic printed quite few documents with lots graphics and printed damn near laser quality you can tell not laser unless you get inches from the page problems with drivers the printer came with the driver diskette which good because was beginning panic when couldn findi under windows wordperfect works well under both have yet install word for windows don know how works with them had deskjet work last year was good printer well felt was awfully slow and much noisier than the bubblejet won say the bubblejet much better but really like more just worth brett sincerely robert kayman kayman stanford edu cpa stanford edu theory theory and practice are the same practice they are not you mean you want the revised revision the original revised revision revised
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	question eisa video board performance have eisa machine and just not understand why most eisa video cards only match the performance their isa counterparts for instance the eisa orchid pro designer iis only about fast the isa diamond speedstar plus which isn what would call fast don understand why eisa video cards aren group the same level performance local bus cards given that eisa video cards have bit bus move data around instead isa bits since they are not why would anyone included pay higher cost for eisa video card when its performance better than and often worse that much cheaper isa video board such diamond speedstar from magazine think recent report know that ati makes pretty fast eisa video card but around which just about double what wallet will allow spend and for could get diamond viper and still have left over course have get local bus mother board too can anyone shed some light confusion frustration thanks christopher wroten cfw world std com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need longer filenames article rfdkqinn zephyr grace cri maystonr grace cri richard mayston writes path kth sunic pipex uunet noc near net howland reston ans net wupost waikato comp vuw zephyr grace cri zephyr grace cri usenet newsgroups comp windows misc subject need longer filenames message rfdkqinn zephyr grace cri from maystonr grace cri richard mayston date mon apr gmt sender maystonr grace cri references apr guinness idbsu edu infoserv com distribution world organization industrial research ltd new zealand nntp posting host rmayston grace cri lines article infoserv com hfeldman infoserv com howard mitchell feldman writes apr guinness idbsu edu lhighley gozer idbsu edu larry paul highley wrote there utility out there that will let use filenames longer than the standard format yep called yep you can use any type unix maybe vms buy mac something you want longer filenames for your documents heard wordprocessor for windows which let you assign long names files those long filenames could only seen from that programs open save dialogs though maybe someone knows more about this wordprocessor than
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	standard and enhanced question cleveland freenet edu martin linsenbigler writes why win sometimes finicky have new dell mhz megs ram windows was working just great had bus mouse and mother board problem dell replaced the mouse gave newer mouse driver for windows and replaced the motherboard just prior this problem windows would only load every other time would get the logo and either would into windows lock this was very consistent every other time much deleted any thoughts comments sounds like memory conflict problem which can cause truly weird symptoms like these call dell tech support better post them cserve you have account and get the memory range used video ram your machine the block windows from using those ranges with emmexclude statement the enh section system ini you probably should include statement excluding the same range from emm whatever memory manager you use config sys dell installs windows the machines they ship but the installation doesn consist much more than copying the files hard disk you still have the work and the fact that you have the problem enhanced mode but not standard strongly suggests high memory conflict
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	program manager two questions from article kou raijbh axion uucp wefiii axion uucp warren fridy iii apr vpnet chi lisbon vpnet chi gerry swetsky writes can you set short cut key return the program manager know ctl esc esc will but rather set can avoid the task list and get back the with alt you might try the recorder and make micro now isn that just amazing seriously add program manager your startup group and define shortcut for works
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	screenreading programs for windows use with screen access program ibm screen reader and speech synthesizer accent would like find out about screen access programs for the windows platform heard that were couple them out now under beta testing would like find out addresses prices etc thanks raman raman raman cornell edu tel office upson hall department computer science cornell university ithaca res bryant avenue ithaca
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	looking for text search engine looking for any information regarding text search engines specifically prefer source binaries which will run windows and unix environment scanning either flat files common structures references shareware commercial implementations welcome please reply via email summarize desired thanx doc
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help word sucks autonum getting desperate have report that must finished midnight and doesn seem have what appears must use the autonum field for numbering chapters but document distributed amongst several files just can find way make word start the numbering something else than course everything fine the first file but pretty stupid when all chapters are numbered please you have any solution this except from putting all one document mail immediately working report hardly have any time read news please mail all answers will heartly welcome advance thanx lot frode rinnans trondheim tlf bjaastad idt unit and the day god created rock and roll avard jastad
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows zip unzip from ccastco prism gatech edu costas malamas subject windows zip unzip date apr gmt article sol deakin russ deakin russ sharp writes are using pkzip and interested hear from people who have used one the many windows programs that call these there full windows version that does not call the dos pkzip pkunzip commands russ sharp russ deakin edu fax there wunarchive the replacement wunzip only extracts but ssupports pkzip does not require pkz unzip order work and ccosts only register
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how redirect print manager file hpcc comp windows misc nctu edu swh apr hello who can tell where can find the shareware which can capture windows output printer mananger want capture the output laser jet iii though the postscript can setup print file but can try dos redirect program but they can work windows thankx for any help you can print file from any other printer just into the printers section your control panel select the printer you want direct file and click connect then choose file the port connect the printer when you print from any application that printer windows will prompt you for file name for the file into which you want capture the printout pretty easy good luck perry reed perry reed desk com young foolish lucky love
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	auto check boxes have question about the autocheck boxes windows possibility let the boxes have several different colors the same time frode kvam name frode kvam univ university trondheim dept informatics mail frode ifi unit snail mail lademoens kirkealle trondheim voice beware programmers who carry screwdrivers
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	boot sometimes fails article apr lugb latrobe edu lux latrobe edu matthew gillard writes subject boot sometimes fails from lux latrobe edu matthew gillard date wed apr gmt sometimes when boot windows after the windows logo comes han using dos and doublespace and meg temp swap file uncompressed drive but when press the reset button the computer windows boots fine why this dos matthew gillard blessed are they who run around computer systems engineering circles for they shall trobe university known wheels dos never used the area efff well some others you have any cards that use this are such lan card you might get this problem use the efff your emm exe line config sys you run memmaker then instruct retain inclusions and exclusions
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	printer security anyone know good software package that will allow keep track who printing what and when there any way get print manager keep log there print manager replacement that will this how about package that will only allow access the system for people password file looked chastity but will let you log without password and doesn keep tabs who got and when any help will greatly appreciated mark juric programs mjuric uga edu university georgia athens georgia
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why not using dos anymore mark woodruff cda ucf bitnet wrote this morning while was working research paper had reboot hung dos program that did disk from within windows when machine finished rebooting found windows directory and about two thirds other directories were irreversibly corrupted stuff deleted this sounds like what happened month ago was stacked with stacker run dos suddenly everything hung and most the got corrupted directories changed into unreadable files with funny names other words probably just the doubledisk part dos that troublesome now use stacker and far have had trouble elisabeth bull mail eliza swix nvg unit
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need longer filenames there utility out there that will let use filenames longer than the standard format yep called yep you can use any type unix maybe vms buy mac something you want longer filenames for your documents heard wordprocessor for windows which let you assign long names files those long filenames could only seen from that programs open save dialogs though maybe someone knows more about this wordprocessor than rember correctly lotus notes gives this possiblity among other things tom softsys
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows help needed with error everybody out there just got the third beta release disk march windowsnt and still not able boot that system the final step achieved the display error but since this the beta release the sdk for and not microsoft does not include manual the itself explaining what this error means what can get rid configuration mainboard hauppauge rev with socket for megs memory ami eisa scsi controller series latest bios cache hard disk syquest removable disk toshiba rom drive proaudio spectrum plus longshine ethernet card lcs comp graphics card meg colorimage the system running fine under dos and windows etc but trying the setup for automatic setup does not recognize controller aha compat when adding manually complains not finging any rom drive the manual setup winnt does not copy everything from does not recognize controller but takes manually setup continues until tries boot then starts loading several stuff from disk seems fing the but messing with that damned error took away all cards not essential but that did not make any effect anybody got any ideas help would greatly appreciated michael linder mlinder tonet physik berlin institute optics tech univ berlin germany
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	terminal setup how new windows and wanted know how setup the terminal program have modem com but when try configure inside windows get the messare unsupported com can anyone help sam
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	more cool bmp files article apr dlss james dlss james cummings writes newsgroups comp windows misc path atldbs uupsi psinntp uunet gatech howland reston ans net bogus sura net darwin sura net convex seas smu edu void dalnet dlss james from james dlss james cummings subject more cool bmp files message apr dlss organization redrock development references apr gmuvax gmu edu distribution usa date tue apr gmt lines article apr gmuvax gmu edu rwang gmuvax gmu edu john wang writes everybody guess subject has said all getting boring looking those same old bmp files that came with windows wondering there any body has some beautiful bmp file can share maybe somebody can tell some ftp site for some bmp files like some scenery files some animals files etc used have some unfortunately delete them all anyway could give some help please response different kinda wallpaper here what use think the original gif whatever was called not real the artist name and logo the lower right corner you will need vga think and have this sized for color screens use this your windows directory and not tile hope you enjoy had question abo owen adair fsu adair dbsoftware com software backbone uupsi atldbs adair there alarming increase topics know nothing about
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why mouse jumpy mouse ecktons ucs byu edu sean eckton writes have microsoft serial mouse and using mouse com was using think but switched see was any better vertical motion nice and smooth but horizontal motion bad sometimes can click something because mouse jumps around can moving the mouse the right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly for bit then jump the right then move smoothly for bit then jump again maybe this time the left about inch this crazy have never had much trouble with mouse before anyone have any solutions here another hint have really jumping mouse type and finally the mouse stops jump changing himem sys yes himem you use device himem sys can course computer don appear the list for these parameter and maybe your mouse can stop jump but your problem looks more like dirty mouse hope help anybody alejandro cifuentes acifuent isluga puc
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	dos loaded gun was why not using dos anymore mark woodruff cda ucf bitnet writes been running dos for about month was generally impressed with the improvements the multiple boot configurations were great the new commands were nice and doublespace worked fine twice slow for large data transfers twice fast for small with smartdrv until now this morning while was working research paper had reboot hung dos program that did disk from within windows when machine finished rebooting found windows directory and about two thirds other directories were irreversibly corrupted cannot afford problems like this returning dos mark also noticed bad sector errors from doublespace where none should exist infoworld april issue has two articles about problems with dos second look article calls loaded gun and that people should exercise extreme caution they decide use the point out that doublespace and memmaker are both problem areas that will cause number folks problems response was the effect that there had been problems reported that they could duplicate probably are not trying too hard cringely reports that lot folks are getting going get burned the support lines his example was call that cost for minutes tech support after minutes hold want see the spin doctors explain this
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why not using dos anymore eliza tigern elisabeth bull writes mark woodruff cda ucf bitnet wrote this morning while was working research paper had reboot hung dos program that did disk from within windows when machine finished rebooting found windows directory and about two thirds other directories were irreversibly corrupted stuff deleted this sounds like what happened month ago was stacked with stacker run dos suddenly everything hung and most the got corrupted directories changed into unreadable files with funny names other words probably just the doubledisk part dos that troublesome now use stacker and far have had trouble this pretty much confirms original impression after reading through the documentation dos the double space sounds nice but not your primary disk probably wind making disk partition and doublespacing using archive probably would useful floppy disks well but particularly disliked the note that said something like double space irreversible cindy cindy tittle moore internet tittle ics uci edu bitnet cltittle uci bitnet uucp ucbvax ucivax tittle usnail box irvine
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows enhanced mode how get icon functionality recently set windows vlb system and didn notice until last night that don have the icon control panel don remember windows setup asking about enhanced mode whether wanted not now got program that just bought aldus freehand that telling that should running windows enhanced mode looks like running standard mode how can switch enhanced mode without the little icon thingie are there some issues involved with vesa systems which cause windows not want give you enhanced mode thanks for any help david victor
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help with changing startup logo article fidonet org doelle fidonet org doelle writes hello brad monday april brad smalling wrote crosspost all since don know your setup copy win cnf vgalogo lgo vgalogo rle win com grabbed this from supercharging windows judd robbins great book this also how you can put your own logo into the windows startup brad what the procedure used specially compress the bmp file would rle file love use some bmp files have created logo screen thanks chris origin chris doelle fidonet org thought reply this though ain brad any case lot picture file viewers that will convert say between gif etc bmp will convert rle know for fact that paintshop shareware from cica desktop think filename psvvv zip think where vvv the ver number that not true let know and post corection this however will write your rle file with bmp extension you have rename now another thing this from the windows faq your file has less than least that what the faq says but mine wont work for more than about maybe they mend don know your file has fit vga size whatever standard vga size you use non vga screen cga ega svga there also way but thing instead vgalogo lgo you use another file such cgalogo lgo egalogo lgo something not sure about this have vga but sure you could find the faq windows help ver which available cica but don konw the filename also your bmp has colours less these specs rule out some the good bmp found cartoon drawings work quite well they have the advantage looking good with little memory finally remember save your current win com before and put your new win com the windows directory also don start windows from directory where another win com present that used instead the one the windows dir and win won start share this fairly but don take slice pie mickey michael panayiotakis louray seas gwu edu ace uunet seas gwu edu louray how make windows grp file reflect directory well ain always right but never been wrong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows zip unzip article sol deakin russ deakin russ sharp writes are using pkzip and interested hear from people who have used one the many windows programs that call these which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst the rest well got winzip from cica don know which version but think the latest this not long ago and was initially imressed but here the low down winzip great progra long you only unzip lets you vew files unzip only selected files and even puts the files checkout directory and creates checkout grp and group you want check the program out even prompts for deletion these exit you didn like the program however big however over here have problems zipping don konw specifics this ammount consistency but sometimes when zip few files add file zip dos will violate something other and asked kind micro oft kind way quit all applications quit windows and restart computer don know said how consistent this jdont zip much and when now just dos and use from there just use the run cmd but know happened when added files existing zip file and when created new zip file using selected files only don know happened when zip entire dir still has rather nice interface and quite useful unzip ing functions the above fixed the first register the new ver for now good old run unzip zip will work new ver out that fixes these please let know peace mickey michael panayiotakis louray seas gwu edu ace uunet seas gwu edu louray how make windows grp file reflect directory well ain always right but never been wrong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	boot sometimes fails article dbasson mattek csir dbasson mattek csir dominique basson writes dos never used the area efff well some others you have any cards that use this are such lan card you might get this problem use the efff your emm exe line config sys you run memmaker then instruct retain inclusions and exclusions speaking that comp has emmexclude efff something that nature the system ini file some system file for windows was just wondering having that line windows startup file better will give some more memory dos apps but disable when you run windows actually think that that line also the system file peace mickey michael panayiotakis louray seas gwu edu ace uunet seas gwu edu louray how make windows grp file reflect directory well ain always right but never been wrong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mouse odometer hello you know about mouse odometer for windows have seen one for the mac quite fun records the distance miles that the travels during use thanks advance steve steven ruegsegger you are conservative when you are young smr cwru edu you have heart you are liberal when you are old you have brain
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	internationalization applications and muulti byte characters are researching what support there various platforms for applications use multi byte characters japanese kanji know that unix and windows can contain support for the standard depending level and platform what support for wide characters exists the mac windows and windows steve chesney slc catherine cim cdc com metaphase technology inc voice north lexington avenue fax arden hills
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help with changing startup logo article fidonet org doelle writes brad what the procedure used specially compress the bmp file would love use some bmp files have created logo screen thanks chris origin chris doelle fidonet org don know the specifics the compression algorithm but used the shareware program paintshop convert between the two you can download from ftp cica indiana edu but don know what the file called what directory you can start looking pub win try scanning the index files convert bmp file rle file you just load the bmp file and save select windows bitmap and compressed rle whatever fairly intuitive sorry don have all the details but currently ibm dumb terminal and can much researching good luck brad smalling tech atlanta prism gatech edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	bitmap what does the bmp format mean iuj kiu lando demandis pri bitmap kaj finnlando respondis dirante pri libro software development kit eble demandinto havas elvolvilo por malmol varoj that was esperanto some from asked about bitmaps and some from responded saying about book int the software development kit possibly the asker does not have the development kit gxong cxjijaux
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	bitmap what does the bmp format mean pardonon ofte konfuzigxas pri mola kaj malmola mol vara was confused between soft and hard software gxong cxjijaux
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	win lock mil dia stelth help please help you can whenever try run windows useing the million color mode with the drivers supplyed with diamond stelth will lock requireing full system reset break out the drivers that have for windows are for windows which the version windows useing setup kcach megs ram svga touch monitor non interlaced ami bios any and all help would apreciated the card seems work fine other modes usually run windows mode and probs all hopeing driver and not card problem paul gubbins cpt tiamat umd umich edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	leaking memory resources this may faq please direct the known answer but getting frustrated and looking for help running win with ndw with meg memory and meg perm swap file and getting exceedingly frustrated that applications are not giving back system resources when close them when load windows start with about resources available but many the application programs run regularly wpwin winqvt lotus organizer etc seem not return all their resources when exit them after day two work often find myself down under available resources even when have applications other than shell running aware this known problem what looking for are some suggestions what might mitigate what software the culprit win ndw applications are some modes win standard real enhanced better than others plugging this leak are their system ini switches can set help plug this leak people know patches third party software that help with this seems like increasing better managing system resources great market for third party memory company like qemm run progman instead ndw will the leak subside was hoping that ndw would have plugged this but seems different than how deals with memory and resources when writing code are there things can make less likely code will eat resources any other suggestions that don know enough ask for specifically thanks for your help this common problem and have seen only little discussion the net there are probably others who would like read answers please publish here rather than sending email danny daniel david mittleman danny arizona edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help finding best development kit new the windows world and while fairly competent sparc nextstep programmer have idea which development kit purchase have heard good things about borland with application frameworks and microsoft visual with sdk what would like peoples comments which package set tools they find useful productive and why there are plethora other kits such gui toolkits available and wondering which these are best terms reliability plug and type operation readability and interested comments these anything else you may find useful will summarize the net there enough interest thanks veenu vrr cbnewsj att com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	changing system font hello have windows and was wondering what necessary change the default system font something else have just obtained msc with sdk really like get feet wet with doing first windows pro gram change the system font william maton acadvm uottawa the mercedes benz convertible csi uottawa the unicycle
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	ati ultra pro windows just got new with ati ultra pro and can get into windows says that need more memory available but have ogf extended mem conventionnal have disabled memory aperture because didn find any free memory but still gave message that the memory aperture will conflict with system memory think that why want get windows any help will greatly appriciated please reply mail because this site week late news thanks gel
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	where get ati card video drivers fonts rju hah access digex net farley access digex com charles farley writes does anyone know where can ftp somehow else acquire the latest video drivers fonts for ati svga adapter the only floppy have for windows does anyone know ati still business thanks farley access digex com charles farley average calgary board employee you can get them from the ati bbs number should your manuals not the tech support number will tell you the bbs number
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	pcx from folks have question how can generate pcx file using word for windows know can select postscript printer driver get file but how can generate pcx file there printer capture utility for windows that ever exists utility transfer format pcx format tiff format please reply mail will give summary thanks shiyu zhang syzhang ccit arizona edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	microsoft printing system something like that saw for this and basically advanced print manager lets you monitor your printing more closely and comes with bunch true type fonts anyone have this good bad worth
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	trouble with sound blaster pro drivers recently windows has starting giving the error sound blaster pro requires newer version windows has worked correctly for long time and don know what the problem could thanks jeff kaz kaczmarek kaz iastate edu the future long past forgotten when you the road madness geoff tate queensryche
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	local windows shared windows discussion would like see serious discussion the best way install windows from novell administrator point view just got off the phone with access support and was told that they microsoft has decided implement standard for software support the local setup described below the most advantageous installation this true and microsoft deems this the most prudent installation then will comply but like hear from administrators first the local windows installation windows fully installed each workstation hard drive assuming the resources are available from network administrator implementation she would install all windows disks network drive using setup then install windows per machine bases running setup off the network install the complete system the local drives this way all drivers are available the setup procedure the need change disks advantages reduce traffic running windows locally reduces network traffic due the local access main windows files network independence the network fails and they all one point another the local installation would allow users keep producing and reduce the cost down time faster windows theoretically windows will run faster from local hard drive than over network this may hard point prove the network has optical backbone and the network drives are significantly faster access than local ones user traveling from machine machine does not need worry about varying setups monochrome color types mouse etc since the windows installation assigned the workstation disadvantages cost installing windows locally requires significant amount disk space workstations now must purchased with hard disk that can increase the cost the workstation from percent administration local windows installations are very difficult administer new drivers for peripherals are constantly being made available each which would have individually installed each workstation security users now have access erase corrupt their own system files from simple ignorance this could result quite headache for administrators who may have constantly repair damaged installations backup all know the problems backing local hard disks the backup sets done via centralized tape system get very large very quickly backup individually floppy may not happen all this may eliminated assumed that local hard disks only contain replaceable applications and not user data the shared windows installation windows fully installed network disk via the setup procedure described above users administrators then install minimal set files individual user directories these directories may local hard disk perhaps network home directory the bulk the windows system files are maintained the network single directory some files and are accessed shared needed users throughout their windows session the user files consist small set files that the user has updated during his her windows session these include group files ini files and other regularly updated files advantages single location for all files makes updates drives easy updated driver becomes available only needs installed this single directory for all users able take advantage assuming that the users files are maintained network home directories the administrator can easily edit any ini file needed correct problems that may arise this includes win ini and system ini backup all pertinent files done easily even the users files are local hard disk the bulk the windows system backed with all driver updates disadvantages network traffic since all windows files are being shared network directory traffic the network can become problem effect the speed windows the network crashes all production comes stop since window reliant upon the network for its files loss data usually occurs well since users working windows the time the crash will usually not able save their work although minimal disk space still consideration the users files are maintained the network large number users can cause significant utilization disk space due their personal windows files alone users cannot easily move from machine machine unless the workstation hardware are similar this due the windows installation being tied particular username the case network user files the discussion would like know from other administrators with large windows userbase how they prefer setting windows personally have setup numerous installations using the shared setup all windows and application files are the network with little utilization local hard disks fact sold network the fact that the company would longer need purchase hard disks for their workstations and thus save that much more money would also like see recommendations for applications should apps such word and excel installed locally regardless how windows installed again keep all files the network for easy backup and administration but this putting all eggs one basket the network crashes work comes halt now sure microsoft and know your out there has their own ideas about this and their insights would great value but hope hear from people with actual working experience with users and network administration
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help with changing startup logo article apr seas gwu edu louray seas gwu edu michael panayiotakis writes article fidonet org doelle fidonet org doelle writes hello brad monday april brad smalling wrote crosspost all copy win cnf vgalogo lgo vgalogo rle win com unecessary grabbed this from supercharging windows judd robbins great book this also how you can put your own logo into the windows startup might too much trouble brad bmp will convert rle know for fact that paintshop shareware from cica desktop think filename psvvv zip think where vvv the ver number that not true let know and this however will write your rle file with bmp extension you have rename your file has less than least that what the faq says but mine wont work for more than about maybe they mend don know agreed mixali your file has fit vga size whatever standard vga size you use non vga screen cga ega svga there also way but thing instead vgalogo lgo you use another file not entirely true also your bmp has colours less true finally remember save your current win com before and put your new win com the windows directory also don start windows from unecessary mickey path least resistance get wingif from cica ftp cica indiana edu pub win desktop will save native rle format unlike psp otherwise fine fine prog make file using anything that has less than michael said and less than colors import wingif gif pcx bmp and save you windows system subdir vgalogo rle not lgo exit win and run setup the windows subdir reselect your current config run win voila minor correction the rle file has that means gif hope helps and please please someone put this the group faq costas malamas georgia institute technology oit oit doesn pay enough share its opinions internet ccastco prism gatech edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows zip unzip article sol deakin russ deakin russ sharp writes are using pkzip and interested hear from people who have used one the many windows programs that call these there full windows version that does not call the dos pkzip pkunzip commands russ sharp russ deakin edu fax winzip ftp cica indiana edu pub win util shell does call dos but very very good one will also arc arj and lzh fully supports pkzip try using might shell very unobtrusive but that also means you dont need update with every every other letter the alphabet version pkzip hope helps costas malamas georgia institute technology oit oit doesn pay enough share its opinions internet ccastco prism gatech edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	tcp through windows don know much about computers please bear with here question context use package called slip home computer connect the university mainframe ibm running vms mvs and log account when installed slip computer had configure for modem kbs etronics internal and had supply the phone number dial reach the mainframe the way works now that type telnet uicvm uicvm either will work the dos prompt uicvm the node name the mainframe the program then dials the mainframe establishes protocol and gives the logon screen telnet and are the names batch files slip directory have been told that kermit protocol used for the session problem would like able all this under windows because hardly ever use dos directly slip will not run under windows talked the people our computer center and they suggested that use packet driver called winpkt com with slip they gave instructions how load before start windows and how modify the tcpstart and tcpstop batch files the slip directory ensure that would work did all that and could run slip from windows but there were other problems for one thing slip would not hang the phone when exited had run communi cations program hang the phone reboot the computer when that didn work for another there were too many errors often took tries connect the mainframe our computer center does not support slip under windows can keep going back them with more questions question there some other shareware package that will run under windows and what slip supposed need package that not too expensive which why looking for shareware have heard that there are regular commercial packages that all this but they cost hundreds dollars these are the main requirements must able run under windows must allow and ibm terminal emulation must allow ftp file transfers since that the only kind the mainframe allows modem modem etc believe the ftp transfers are made through kermit protocol but hazy about that subsidiary feature that would nice have true windows program rather than dos program modified run under windows the ability run the session window concurrently with other applications and cut and paste between the telnet session and other applications any information received appreciated pankaj saxena uicvm uic edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	codabar font need codabar font for win other thanks
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows zip unzip article sol deakin russ deakin russ sharp writes are using pkzip and interested hear from people who have used one the many windows programs that call these which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst the rest there full windows version that does not call the dos pkzip pkunzip commands yes russ there quinzip windows version but don think handles all the functions available the dos version last looked quinzip could found the monash university australia mirror site cica assume still cica itself and other mirrors have look the util directory for file called qzip zip paul blackman pwb science canberra edu water research centre pwb aerg canberra edu faculty applied science university canberra australia spend little love and get high lenny kravitz
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows and imf boards interested know there know procedure document configure ibm musci feature imf card work the sound device with windows believe the imf uses the same synth chip the soun blaster but didn know what driver use how configure the midi mapper any help past success suggestions thanks don donald finch technical support engr american solution centers voice microsystems fax email don finch corp sun com mtv
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	observation floppy copy works under pgm mgr but not dos shell has anyone observed this copy large say file large pkzip file for instance floppy drive under windows via either program manager dos shell the file copied under the dos shell has errors whereas the file copied from within program manager does not the corruption detected executing pkunzip file zip after both copies the file copied via the dos shell always shows corruption now here the kicker have many windows open while doing this both dos and windows apps supposedly all windows apps share the same time slice whereas the dos apps get their own equal time slice unless overriden example have windows apps open multitasking dos sessions running and one execution execlusive dos shell iconized inactive under this scenario cpu time divided into two major slices one for all the windows apps and one slice for the running dos app when copying under windows pgm mgr assume the other windows and dos tasks are essentially inactive thus pgm mgr gets say the windows slice and the execution background dos shell slices thus gets the total available cpu time when copying dos shell activate the execute exclusive mode dos shell other dos background tasks allowed full screen under the windows task manager the cpu time available this shell would the windows slice assumming inactive windows applications and the dos slice the total available cpu time why get copy errors under dos has the greater amount cpu time program manager working pre emptive mode during the floppy copy must miscellaneous data running windows top dos qemm rapidbios sys mbyte smartdrive delayed writes two ramdrives logitech mouse driver full mbytes motherboard ram kbyte motherboard cache mhz running dos edit com tsr the dos shell wayne long internet wcl risc sps mot com william cannon drive west uucp texas edu oakhill risc wcl austin texas phone fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	please help wierd problem somebody help cure poor computer before insane have problem with when running windows that appears memory related actually not limited windows but that where causes most problems ths machine meg ram kcache trident tvga card pas soundcard windows runs really really slow most the time slower than old graphics draws fills are slow boots are slow applications are sluggish dialog boxes take seconds appear note some other non windows applications funny things that appear related several run slow mod player crashes the system etc running borland before running windows any the other programs completely fixes the problem windows will run fast ever seen run easily times faster for graphics than when don run beforehand don have memory manager installed config sys installing emm exe does not fix the problem makes worse after emm installed running will not fix the problem anymore this problem driving nuts you think you can help please reply through the mail thanks evan
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	and lbp drivers needed hello could anybody kind and tell the date and possible ftp location the most recent win printer drivers for canon and canon lbp would really appreciate you could help with this thanks advance kjell hut kjell niksula hut kjell vipunen hut
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows zip unzip article sol deakin russ deakin russ sharp writes are using pkzip and interested hear from people who have used one the many windows programs that call these which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst the rest there full windows version that does not call the dos pkzip pkunzip commands you mean prog that doesn jump the dos display and then back create temp dos window yes then might recommend winzip from ftp cica indiana edu afraid don have the file name version but you should able find fully compatible with ver and very functional later phil trodwell this space happy ram goddam volt cattle for rent prod into that tub with you right now but not cheap this radio hunter thompson
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	program manager kills group files article reiqj qtr access digex net bsmith access digex com barry smith writes any clue some times when enter win progman says that need rebuild group quite annoying had the same problem with maxtor turned off smartdrive bit disk access etc this same disk aborts norton speed disk times requesting ndd run when attempting defrag drive some peoples suggestion reformatted drive and reloaded dos win from scratch few people found that installing top beta top caused similar problem tried this drastic solution when the problem reoccurred didn have the brains not load and dblespaced the drive get arround the annoyance copying grp files gro when get the message run file manager and copy the offeniding group files from gro ove rthe grp then quit and restart windows the group often used important one this really sucks but pretty sure that the problem the drive especially with the nsd problem will going with out over memory after finals for weeks while the guy bought the disk and system from goes over and either fixes replaces the drive can wait have system that will run consistently with all hte goodies mike hayes knowledge good faber college motto www knowledge and thoroughness rensselear poly motto unemployed tech thank you groucho marx day the races driven banging head against engineering physics for years
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows und windows apr eurom rhein main hein eurom rhein main hein roehrig writes not sure whether here the right area but does anybody here know whether windows does will include windows server that can run window applications remotely does not insisting perfect safety for people who don have the balls live the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg com don speak for others and they don speak for
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	leaking memory resources apr bpavms bpa arizona edu dmittleman bpavms bpa arizona edu daniel mittleman writes this may faq please direct the known answer but getting frustrated and looking for help running win with ndw with meg memory and meg perm swap file and getting exceedingly frustrated that applications are not giving back system resources when close them aware this known problem what looking for are some suggestions what might mitigate what software the culprit win ndw applications are some modes win standard real enhanced better than others plugging this leak the applications that this unfortunately even the applets that ship with win seem have this problem seen solitaire for example are their system ini switches can set help plug this leak none that know application doesn give back the resources they are lost and gone forever pending restart windows people know patches third party software that help with this seems like increasing better managing system resources great market for third party memory company like qemm the applications don free the memory and lot them don there bugger all that any other piece software can about run progman instead ndw will the leak subside was hoping that ndw would have plugged this but seems different than how deals with memory and resources this problem with the applications usually when writing code are there things can make less likely code will eat resources there are books written this one general just sure free everything that you ask for before you exit unfortunately understand that will internally lose resources for you there way avoid this entirely any other suggestions that don know enough ask for specifically thanks for your help this common problem and have seen only little discussion the net there are probably others who would like read answers please publish here rather than sending email there little discussion because inevitable until manages come with that will garbage collection something the resource pool insisting perfect safety for people who don have the balls live the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg com don speak for others and they don speak for
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help how allocate more memory for disk copying file manager when use file manager disk copy find that windows can read the whole disk one time but only disk looks like problem memory however the has ram there should some way allocat more extended memory for disk copy please advise this matter thanks advance huayong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows und windows article apr mksol dseg com mccall mksol dseg com fred mccall writes apr eurom rhein main hein eurom rhein main hein roehrig writes not sure whether here the right area but does anybody here know whether windows does will include windows server that can run window applications remotely does not could you add some information non does not say for instance your source information thanks kan mongwa mongwa acsu buffalo edu suny buffalo bitnet wxkp ubvms humpty dumpty electrical engineering wxkp ubvm
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	canon bubblejet and deskjet thomas fellrath edu edu wrote size another factor the much smaller but the built like tank bet the would get damaged first you bet your bippy built like tank and not just mechanically either this past weekend had nasty thunderstorm and the impossible happened got direct lightning strike house and the second floor outlet box into which faithful deskjet was connected there was bullet sized hole the aluminum siding with some solidified aluminum slag dripping from you could actually see the electrical box through the hole the outlet itself was fried and still amazed the whole damn house didn burn down lost electric garage door openers vcr telephones all which were the opposite side the house zyxel high speed modem vga monitor color monitor the and parallel ports terminal and lan card not good night but the deskjet ran soon found functioning serial and parallel port connect ted slightly singed rypma panacom division waterloo ontario
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	quietwriter driver trying get hold ibm quietwriter printer driver for windows such beast exists can someone suggest how get please mail reply directly don normally read this group many thanks david brown dbrown mach wlu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	replacement for program maw ying yuan wrote from yuan wiliki eng hawaii edu maw ying yuan subject replacement for program manager and file manager message juj news hawaii edu date thu apr gmt replacements for win program manager and file manager yuan wiliki eng hawaii edu been using plannet crafter plug for program manager its listed most bbs plugin its add which gives some needed features progman such the ability better manage your groups change your cursor and icons the fly constant status ram and resources quick menu drop down menu dos commands app launcher plus some other neat stuff used liked and even reg you can find anywhere let know and zip and mail you shareware version course aloha all hope abandon who enter messages here slmr idc bbs usr hst usr bis alameda california home kingmail kingqwk and qwkmerge
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	actix video card drivers for windows apr gmt kym burgemeister kburg aelmg adelaide edu wrote apr jarvis csri toronto edu wongda eecg toronto edu daniel wong writes looking for the latest drivers for the actix graphics accelerator card the driver currently using version and doesn support more than colors mode even you have memory the bbs support for actix unbelievable they are still using bps modem will take you hours download the drivers hurts when you are calling long distance there any ftp site that has collection video drivers for windows good but where are these drivers daniel wong uoft anybody actix listening upload the dang drivers ftp site pleeeeeeese somebody get them local call and contact ftp site for uploading this not possible can keep them disk and email the request uuencoded provided that somebody sends them cource live penio penev internet penev venezia rockefeller edu disclaimer all oppinions are mine
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	some info the dos msw meltdown progressing nicely the preferred applications development platform according the fortune corporations survey sentry market research survey all percentages unix mainframe dos msw midrange this from corporate computing may page interesting see how the greatest vapour project the world has not been able make much difference here before you think interesting rag they have this incredibly incompetent article opinion piece someone named robert ziff which has preposturous statements like sun has sold around multiprocessing servers that case usc has around all sun servers earth off factor thought sending them factual disaster email message they have column titled how contact but being silly pcheads they seem have never heard the internet these may also interest world computer market share broad category dos windows netware unix ibm mainframe vax vms ibm minis macintosh other totally billion projections are idc source unix world jan unix hardware sales category billion installed base workstations million midrange million large scale unix million total ajay shah ajayshah rcf usc edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	please not post bitmaps from pwiseman salmon usd edu cliff organization university south dakota subject roman bmp response the requests for cool bitmaps posting one date due the resolution and size parts this uuencoded bitmap colors the picture marbled gazebo desert with blue sky background the size just right for centered wallpaper display because leaves border the bottom just big enough for icons fit without being top the picture reguarding image quality and resolution have not seen much better please not this don know how the rest you read news but here how subscribe outernet system which allows dial via modem and download mail and news articles automatically when someone posts huge attached binary file have choice but receive along with all the other new articles the groups subscribe also pay for the connect time which normally not problem because have modem and each day upload download session takes only minutes today session however lasted about minutes because roman bmp consequently cost about extra just receive file that didn want the first place you have cool bitmaps that you want make available there are other ways either upload the file ftp site like ftp cica indiana edu which has complete windows section and tell people how get use one the newsgroups like alt binaries pictures something like that which are file archives rather than discussion groups don use discussion groups like this one send out attached files especially when they size thanks klein eklein spiff win net
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mouse driver article apr princeton edu phoenix princeton edu carlosn carlos niederstrasser writes does anyone have the documentation for the mouse driver got when got windows but windows manual does not come with the documentation particular need know how turn off and how speed outside windows the greater sensitivity needed can play various games esp wing the sensitivity changed using the parameter the commands the following vertical sensitivity horizontal sensitivity both follow the parameter with number from slowest fastest the default you can type the command mouse right from the keyboard add autoexec bat hope this helps
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why not using dos anymore article apr ugle unit eliza tigern elisabeth bull writes from eliza tigern elisabeth bull subject why not using dos anymore date wed apr gmt mark woodruff cda ucf bitnet wrote this morning while was working research paper had reboot hung dos program that did disk from within windows when machine finished rebooting found windows directory and about two thirds other directories were irreversibly corrupted stuff deleted this sounds like what happened month ago was stacked with stacker run dos suddenly everything hung and most the got corrupted directories changed into unreadable files with funny names other words probably just the doubledisk part dos that troublesome now use stacker and far have had trouble does this need have anything with disk compression have experienced the same thing couple times myself but without any disk compression stuff installed for example guess what happened when norton speeddisk once crashed during defragmenting bjorn bjorn myrland bjorn myrland sipaa sintef sintef safety and reliability trondheim norway sintef the foundation for scientific and industrial research the norwegian institute technology
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	printer driver wanted looking for printer driver for the apple imagewriter this printer actually the same citoh jim littlefield only two things are infinite the universe little hks com and human stupidity and not sure about the former albert einstein
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	question eisa video board performance from article ubg world std com cfw world std com christopher wroten have eisa machine and just not understand why most eisa video cards only match the performance their isa counterparts for instance the eisa orchid pro designer iis only about fast the isa diamond speedstar plus which isn what would call fast don understand why eisa video cards aren group the same level performance local bus cards given that eisa video cards have bit bus move data around instead isa bits good question answer the eisa bus does move bits rather than isa but still moves about the speed the isa bus think that either mhz the local bus designs also move bits like the eisa but they move the data the cpu speed mhz mhz cpu the local bus moving bit data mhz and the eisa moving bit data mhz the local bus should times faster than eisa mhz cpu eisa should about two maybe times fast isa since they are not why would anyone included pay higher cost for eisa video card when its performance better than and often worse that much cheaper isa video board such diamond speedstar from magazine think recent report know that ati makes pretty fast eisa video card but around which just about double what wallet will allow spend and for could get diamond viper and still have left over course have get local bus mother board too that very good question the eisa bus does have more advantages over the isa bus than just width for example more better interrupts and bus mastering but these other factors not impact video card very much they have more impact file servers with multiple hard drives full throttle network cards roms etc can anyone shed some light confusion frustration thanks christopher wroten cfw world std com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows und windows article ybv acsu buffalo edu mongwa acsu buffalo edu kan mongwa says does anybody here know whether windows does will include windows server could you add some information does not say for instance your source information source for does not comment the rom and manuals for the march beta there windows server there will there course even microsoft supplies one with other vendors will doubt port their according recent newsletter from hummingbird communications ltd they announced exceede uniforum the announcement reads like here now but there order price info would guess must rsn there dev kit too
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why not using dos anymore regarding the horror stories about dos doubledisk and stacker killing hard drives was wondering the dos mirror command works the doubled drive info well the normal fat table and partition table records the vital doubledisk info then using daily should long way toward protecting yourself against the type catastrophic failure discussed doesn then shame microsoft
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	lockups enh mode floppy got older motherboard old uses keyboard controller and uses memory interleaving rather than caching has developed problem where trying copy files from floppy cause the machine lock reset button required but only when enhanced mode this occurs norton desktop file manager and when trying install software running win standard mode works fine has anyone run into this any ideas much thanks appreciated david yon world std com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	leaking memory resources dmittleman bpavms bpa arizona edu daniel mittleman writes this may faq please direct the known answer but getting frustrated and looking for help running win with ndw with meg memory and meg perm swap file and getting exceedingly frustrated that applications are not giving back system resources when close them noticed this also the way was explained that windows does not clear the upper memory blocks after program done anyone out there know this why
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	dos novell netware friend mine installed dos work and hooked novell network running netware the problem having that the doublespace program using drive the swap drive which confliting with the networks mapped drives there switch place the swap drive someother drive please mail thanks bunch mahbub cleveland freenet edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	where put swap file ide scsi have and recently added scsi drive system using adaptec non busmastering controller yesterday ran coretest find out drive performance and these are the values got seagate meg sec avg seek track track quantum meg scsi sec avg seek track track first off all are these good results don know what typical values are what wondering now the following swap file currently the ide could move the scsi which faster but then would not able use bit access which might actuall make slower which drive should put swap file get best results there swap file speed test program out there finally also ran the above tests with the aspi dos driver loaded and got difference whatsoever performance there any reason all why should load this driver thanks advance will post summary get enough responses eric
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	emm and windows almost exclusively run windows the only dos based application have procommplus config sys have emm loaded with the option noems expanded memory following thread one the comp newsgroups read that was necessary have emm loaded indeed the manual says that emm used get expanded memory out extended memory since have the noems option seems that the emm device useless case should use emm should remove from config sys thanks for your help eric
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	some info the dos msw meltdown progressing nicely ajayshah almaak usc edu ajay shah writes the preferred applications development platform according the fortune corporations survey sentry market research survey all percentages unix mainframe dos msw midrange this from corporate computing may page interesting see how the greatest vapour project the world has not been able make much difference here world computer market share broad category dos windows netware unix ibm mainframe vax vms ibm minis macintosh other projections are idc source unix world jan sombody data wrong since mac finder systerm whatever you want call doesn appear the first survey tend doubt their results more just because sombody wrote doesn mean its correct carl zmola cicero spc uchicago edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	where put swap file ide scsi article apr oracle oracle com ebosco oracle com writes have and recently added scsi drive system using adaptec non busmastering controller yesterday ran coretest find out drive performance and these are the values got seagate meg sec avg seek track track quantum meg scsi sec avg seek track track first off all are these good results don know what typical values are those are pretty typical believe what wondering now the following swap file currently the ide could move the scsi which faster but then would not able use bit access which might actuall make slower which drive should put swap file get best results there swap file speed test program out there keep the swap file the ide bit access worth fair amount more than
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why are our desktop fonts changing one our users having unusual problem she does alt tab full screen dos program when she goes back windows her desktop fonts have changed she goes back full screen dos program and then goes back windows the font has changed back its default font not major problem everything works and the font legible but annoying does anyone have any idea why this happens the way she has dec machine jeffrey cohen voice office for research fax the university albany mail uacsc albany edu state university new york washington ave albany
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	replacement for program manager and file manager yuan wiliki eng hawaii edu maw ying yuan writes there could someone please suggest one the better shareware replacements for win program manager and file manager and which ftp site are they located thanks advance for mail response please post your response well think many would interested this one thank you wayne long internet wcl risc sps mot com william cannon drive west uucp texas edu oakhill risc wcl austin texas phone fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows should upgrade thinking upgrading the beta version windows mhz hard disc can someone please give there opion such setup for running and the operating system likely better than windows unix steve king ceres
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	video board there plan upgrading monitor and video card have isa local bus system would appreciate anyone can drop email your experience with high resolution video board monitor thanks ming lin mlin ichips intel com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	vesa driver for ibm xga can anyone tell where find standard vesa display driver that will support the the motherboard xga video ibm model need use and higher resolutions under both windows and dos minimum colors highest resolution with colors needed gary michael phone associate director fax office for information management mail gmichael vmd cso uiuc edu university illinois david kinley hall novanet gary michael duosoft cerl west gregory drive urbana
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	fast display adaptors for windows friend and have ati graphic ultra display adaptors and they have been reasonably good performers but both have had irritating compatibility problems with the ati drivers and are ready change something faster and more compatible with windows have heard rumblings that the new orchid card very fast anyone have experience with this card what currently available that fast compatible does non interlaced and cost under ken keirnan ken keirnan pacific bell kjkeirn srv pacbell com san ramon california
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	emm and windows almost exclusively run windows the only dos based application have procommplus config sys have emm loaded with the option noems expanded memory following thread one the comp newsgroups read that was necessary have emm loaded indeed the manual says that emm used get expanded memory out extended memory since have the noems option seems that the emm device useless case should use emm should remove from config sys thanks for your help eric emm noems enables the system use the upper memory between and that good place for device drivers dos kernal etc keep
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters microsoft the largest software company the planet yet cannot think even one computing concept that they innovated and brought market before anyone else xerox parc apple osborne next gnu and others have been pioneers and led the way the future computing what has microsoft done technological leader posted this question before but got nary reply make the challenge now anyone who can come with something especially microsoft employees get response this time guess pretty much assures that there none which what suspect anyway kurt bollacker duke university medical center kdb sunbar duke edu durham
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters microsoft the largest software company the planet yet cannot think even one computing concept that they innovated and brought market before anyone else xerox parc apple osborne next gnu and others have been pioneers and led the way the future computing what has microsoft done technological leader posted this question before but got nary reply make the challenge now anyone who can come with something especially microsoft employees get response this time guess pretty much assures that there none which what suspect anyway really when you come down who cares just hope keeps doing what they best getting usable productive software the masses thx dave
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	dos novell netware article rre usenet ins cwru edu cleveland freenet edu mahbub anam writes friend mine installed dos work and hooked novell network running netware the problem having that the doublespace program using drive the swap drive which confliting with the networks mapped drives there switch place the swap drive someother drive please mail thanks bunch mahbub cleveland freenet edu determine the last dblspace drive required and set that lastdrive your config sys you are using you might want couple drives higher give you some shared drive space reboot and novell will set its first drive one above the lastdrive config sys you might have remap some your novell drives they were originally mapped lower drives make sure that the bat file whatever you are using log onto novell set the correct drive one above the lastdrive setting the config sys file
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	winlogo like substitute the exciting win opening logo for our own company logo boot time this matter replacing the logo file with our own logo and what format should the company logo thanks avdean
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	some info the dos msw meltdown progressing nicely ajayshah almaak usc edu ajay shah writes the preferred applications development platform according the fortune corporations survey sentry market research survey unix mainframe dos msw development what house apps maybe but certainly not apps sold open market statistics like that are laughable because they may simply mean that there are not enough shrink wrapped usable apps for unix and they have developed disproportionately often compared the installed unix base
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters dil admin mhs unc edu dave laudicina once wrote microsoft the largest software company the planet yet cannot think even one computing concept that they innovated and brought market before anyone else xerox parc apple osborne next gnu and others have been pioneers and led the way the future computing what has microsoft done technological leader posted this question before but got nary reply make the challenge now anyone who can come with something especially microsoft employees get response this time guess pretty much assures that there none which what suspect anyway really when you come down who cares just hope keeps doing what they best getting usable productive software the masses personally blasphemous and say that microsoft keeps doing what does well hope see much harsher stricter copyright and patent laws for computer algorithms concepts interfaces and other intellectual properties protect real innovators hate one who actually does innovate and then have microsoft come like huge vulture and use their brute mass development staff marketing etc get fat off innovation don have all that much sympathy for apple complaint against microsoft since they just took the ideas from xerox research center when the federal government forced xerox disclose their patents over antitrust fears however for other companies and individuals who have great idea yet get borrowed larger corporations who can afford quickly bring market without any licensing from the original innovator feel much sympathy larry larry weeks those who fight monsters should make sure that dev ecn purdue edu the process does not become monster and when you look long into abyss the abyss also looks into you friedrich nietszche
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	western digital driver know that seen this question asked before but don remember seeing any answers here again does any one know ftp site where the driver might reside checked cica and sure not there refering the new version the driver that came out have seen serve but hesitate meg bps unless really have alternativly possible get paradise mail the new drivers don they that finally even worth the hassle getting these things there not much improvement over version thanks for the info peter peter wecker yrj internet pswecker med unc edu uucp pswecker uncmed uucp dept physiology univ north carolina chapel hill
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how change icon for program windows suppose you want change the particular icon for program windows such the dos one would someone let know how you can this thanks million chad toelle toelle evansville edu philip vernon uunet evansville edu toelle
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	required file format word for window file doc trying develop utility view word for window file but that need know the format the doc word for window file format files can anybody tell what the format doc file direct where can get proprietory format your help greatly appriciated thanks
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	wanted font creator package free looking for way get our company logo onto documents and figure the easiest way put into font are there any public domain programs that can this there any shareware that will this any help appreciated paul paul wilson pwilson gandalf
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu duke edu kurt bollacker writes from kdb sunbar duke edu duke edu kurt bollacker subject challenge microsoft supporters date apr gmt microsoft the largest software company the planet yet cannot think even one computing concept that they innovated and brought market before anyone else xerox parc apple osborne next gnu and others have been pioneers and led the way the future computing what has microsoft done technological leader posted this question before but got nary reply make the challenge now anyone who can come with something especially microsoft employees get response this time guess pretty much assures that there none which what suspect anyway kurt bollacker duke university medical center kdb sunbar duke edu durham they invented the how make money others ideas they made money they weren the air the wrong time admit billg damn smart guy how many out there can make money almost useless products useless even you look the time dos were written stinked already then could choose one marketing guy the world think would choose him good that almost everyone hates him but they still use his stuff thomasez not perfect but perfect for you shavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalessha vethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavet hewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavebillgatesshavethewhalesshavethew halesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhal esshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhaless
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	vesa driver for ibm xga gmichael vmd cso uiuc edu gmichael vmd cso uiuc edu gary michael writes can anyone tell where find standard vesa display driver that will support the the motherboard xga video ibm model need use and higher resolutions under both windows and dos minimum colors highest resolution with colors needed the ibm xga svga vesa driver the reference diskette available from the ibm bbs also compu erve you can bang your sales rep get you later version dick kaul opinions only not official ibm positions etc ibm xga development they make wear suit were speak for ibm boca raton the use unnecessary violence the apprehension kaul vnet ibm com the blues brothers has been approved
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows line review uploaded have uploaded the windows line review shareware edition ftp cica indiana edu pub win uploads wolrs zip line magazine which contains reviews some shareware products grabbed from the windows line bbs greg reinacker ncr microelectronic products division voiceplus danfield court greg reinacker ftcollinsco ncr com fort collins
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how redirect print manager file hpcc corp com reed hpcc corp com perry reed writes hpcc comp windows misc nctu edu swh apr hello who can tell where can find the shareware which can capture windows output printer mananger you are planning using this regular basis conncting the printer file can become bothersome because windows then asks you for the filename that you want create found that putting line system ini the ports section with just path and filename works the only problem that you send more than one job the second one deletes the first chris cmj acsu buffalo edu christopher johnson pgp public key encryption for the masses disclaimer didn say that pgp encrypted mail welcome pgp public key pgp public keys toxicwaste mit edu orwell may very well have been correct just had the year wrong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	telnet terminal for windows looking for good terminal program that will connect tcp using windows some basic window that connect unix host would great any suggestions thanks peter kocks kocks chemistry stanford edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters has innovated anything really when you come down who cares just hope keeps doing what they best getting usable productive software the masses lets see what products don have major bugs them but the fifth release the bugs are generally cleared even their customers must buy new releases from them that are little more than bug fixes anyone who buys computer system and then runs windows desperate need sympathy wait innovated the plastic housing the mouse didn they logitech inside personally blasphemous and say that microsoft keeps doing what does well hope see much harsher stricter copyright and patent laws for computer algorithms concepts interfaces and other intellectual properties protect real innovators hate one who actually does innovate and then have microsoft come like huge vulture and use their brute mass development staff marketing etc get fat off innovation don have all that much sympathy for apple complaint against microsoft since they just took the ideas from xerox research center when the federal government forced xerox disclose their patents over antitrust fears however for other companies and individuals who have great idea yet get borrowed larger corporations who can afford quickly bring market without any licensing from the original innovator feel much sympathy larry larry weeks those who fight monsters should make sure that dev ecn purdue edu the process does not become monster and when you look long into abyss the abyss also looks into you friedrich nietszche you can even really call secondary creativity when company gathers together bunch knock off packages and peddles them neophytes does anything appears someone has first appears that finding out that throwing money technological problems means guaranteed solution kenton cmu edu fixes broken windows
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows should upgrade article rrhe inn ceres kingston ceres kingston steve warner writes thinking upgrading the beta version windows mhz hard disc can someone please give there opion such setup for running and the operating system likely better than windows unix steve king ceres been using windows since the october release and have say that the march release really big improvement windows becomming usable there are few things consider before you make the leap though first for least that you cannot get full speed dos box what mean cannot for instance run falcon any other resourse intensive program dos box absolutley crawls and machine with and ram anyone knows how get fast dos box full screen for that matter please let know the second thing there are still not many drivers around for stuff for instance pas has been demoted running sound blaster which natively supported nice because mediavision hasn produced drivers yet your disk should large enough keep dos partition and give the rest over windows the only thing whenever you wanted run windows programs you have reboot and log into windows instead just typing win windows does seem much more stable than normal windows though good choice you have the resources you should really have least ram though one last thing modems work well enough but have yet get fax card work and never heard anyone else who did either only better than unix because runs killer software out the box whereas with unix there isn the same availablity guess comes down windows not yet for the faint heart still beta but very good beta scott reimert reimert mamacass etdesg trw com standard disclaimer redondo beach blah blah blah always store beer cool dark place
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows und windows ybv acsu buffalo edu mongwa acsu buffalo edu kan mongwa writes article apr mksol dseg com mccall mksol dseg com fred mccall writes apr eurom rhein main hein eurom rhein main hein roehrig writes not sure whether here the right area but does anybody here know whether windows does will include windows server that can run window applications remotely does not could you add some information non does not say for instance your source information have copy isn there microsoft says will not the release version either just asked did not told him thanks you welcome insisting perfect safety for people who don have the balls live the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg com don speak for others and they don speak for
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	telnet terminal for windows article apr leland stanford edu kocks chemistry stanford edu peter kocks writes looking for good terminal program that will connect tcp using windows some basic window that connect unix host would great any suggestions take look winqvt net the latest version qvt net comes versions that are direct packet driver well nfs version priced quite low registration student registration and nice package comes complete with terminal emulation ftp pop client lpr and nntp client you can ftp from biochemistry bioc cwru edu pub qvtnet qvtnet zip was also uploaded ftp cica indiana edu recently ashok ashok aiyar mail ashok biochemistry cwru edu department biochemistry tel cwru school medicine cleveland ohio fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows zip unzip pwb aerg canberra edu paul blackman writes article sol deakin russ deakin russ sharp writes are using pkzip and interested hear from people who have used one the many windows programs that call these which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst the rest there full windows version that does not call the dos pkzip pkunzip commands yes russ there quinzip windows version but don think handles all the functions available the dos version the problem that quinzip very very slow think that winzip still the best choice use pkzip windows denis simard montreal simardde ere umontreal
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help with changing startup logo previous article louray seas gwu edu michael panayiotakis wrote article fidonet org doelle fidonet org doelle writes hello brad monday april brad smalling wrote crosspost all since don know your setup copy win cnf vgalogo lgo vgalogo rle win com grabbed this from supercharging windows judd robbins great book this also how you can put your own logo into the windows startup now another thing this from the windows faq your file has less than least that what the faq says but mine wont work for more than about maybe they mend don know com files are limited total size thus win cfn plus vgalogo log plus your rle file must less than thus your rle file should around rob any resemblance between the above views and rob those faculty advisor terminal mohns the view out window are purely coinci dental richard traina may may not rmohns vax support said views but probably doesn clarku edu want clarkies think about them
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	more cool bmp files adair atldbs dbsoftware com owen adair writes article apr dlss james dlss james cummings writes newsgroups comp windows misc path atldbs uupsi psinntp uunet gatech howland reston ans net bogus sura net darwin sura net convex seas smu edu void dalnet dlss james from james dlss james cummings subject more cool bmp files message apr dlss organization redrock development references apr gmuvax gmu edu distribution usa date tue apr gmt lines article apr gmuvax gmu edu rwang gmuvax gmu edu john wang writes everybody guess subject has said all getting boring looking those same old bmp files that came with windows wondering there any body has some beautiful bmp file can share maybe somebody can tell some ftp site for some bmp files like some scenery files some animals files etc used have some unfortunately delete them all anyway could give some help please response different kinda wallpaper here what use think the original gif whatever was called not real the artist name and logo the lower right corner you will need vga think and have this sized for color screens use this your windows directory and not tile hope you enjoy try this one for size rather not post her name but you email tell you who she enjoy dave bushong wang laboratories inc amateur radio callsign project leader recognition products ary noca internet dbushong wang com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	some info the dos msw meltdown progressing nicely apr bert eecs uic edu zmola bert eecs uic edu carl zmola writes sombody data wrong since mac finder systerm whatever you want call doesn appear the first survey tend doubt their results more just because sombody wrote doesn mean its correct note that the two tables don talk about the same population one fortune companies favoring the platform their primary application platform the other sales everyone not just fortune fortune companies don lot development with the mac their top platform would expect that that would explain the discrepancy insisting perfect safety for people who don have the balls live the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg com don speak for others and they don speak for
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	question eisa video board performance apr hubcap clemson edu charlea eng clemson edu charles allen writes from article ubg world std com cfw world std com christopher wroten have eisa machine and just not understand why most eisa video cards only match the performance their isa counterparts for instance the eisa orchid pro designer iis only about fast the isa diamond speedstar plus which isn what would call fast don understand why eisa video cards aren group the same level performance local bus cards given that eisa video cards have bit bus move data around instead isa bits good question answer the eisa bus does move bits rather than isa but still moves about the speed the isa bus think that either mhz the local bus designs also move bits like the eisa but they move the data the cpu speed mhz mhz cpu the local bus moving bit data mhz and the eisa moving bit data mhz the local bus should times faster than eisa mhz cpu eisa should about two maybe times fast isa would expect the eisa board more than twice fast the isa board not only are you moving data path twice wide least but there difference the number clocks required for bus transactions between the two busses most isa boards require multiple clocks per bus transaction typically this around eisa boards are suppose able burst rate would expect performance that isa card guess for the question unanswered still would expect him able see speed difference and apparently does not insisting perfect safety for people who don have the balls live the real world mary shafer nasa ames dryden fred mccall dseg com don speak for others and they don speak for
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	emm and windows article ardie cso uiuc edu ardie cso uiuc edu ardie mack writes almost exclusively run windows the only dos based application have procommplus config sys have emm loaded with the option noems expanded memory following thread one the comp newsgroups read that was necessary have emm loaded indeed the manual says that emm used get expanded memory out extended memory since have the noems option seems that the emm device useless case should use emm should remove from config sys thanks for your help eric emm noems enables the system use the upper memory between and that good place for device drivers dos kernal etc keep well thought that highmem sys would that too just took out emm config sys and still loading other drivers high mouse vga shadow bios dos key etc haven checked mem but believe have managed load them high between and also ever since took out emm windows loads slightly faster get about extra meg freemem windows running enhanced with meg ram meg swap and got rid ctrl alt del reboot problem before the computer would not reboot using ctrl alt del after exiting windows would really like keep emm out config sys anybody else have info this eric
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why are our desktop fonts changing article uacsc albany edu uacsc albany edu writes one our users having unusual problem she does alt tab full screen dos program when she goes back windows her desktop fonts have changed she goes back full screen dos program and then goes back windows the font has changed back its default font not major problem everything works and the font legible but annoying does anyone have any idea why this happens the way she has dec machine any consolation had similar problem recall exited from dos session while full screen mode the menu titles had changed scrambled version the icon title font something like that only started happening after used icontitlefacename win ini change the desktop font arial stopped exiting from dos sessions while full screen mode mac used something similar aren computers weird mark hadfield hadfield wao greta cri niwa oceanographic taihoro nukurangi evans bay greta point telephone box kilbirnie fax wellington new zealand
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters kenton shaver andrew cmu edu writes lets see what products don have major bugs them but the fifth release the bugs are generally cleared even their generally the second third major release usually takes care advice based plenty personal experience never buy the first version anything from microsoft this includes major version number upgrades from previous releases such microsoft always wait least for the upgrade slipstream upgrade you going buy san francisco like granola take away the fruits and the nuts and all you have left are the flakes
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article apr samba oit unc edu dil admin mhs unc edu dave laudicina writes microsoft the largest software company the planet yet cannot think even one computing concept that they innovated and brought market before anyone else xerox parc apple osborne next gnu and others have been pioneers and led the way the future computing what has microsoft done technological leader posted this question before but got nary reply make the challenge now anyone who can come with something especially microsoft employees get response this time guess pretty much assures that there none which what suspect anyway really when you come down who cares just hope keeps doing what they best getting usable productive software the masses thx dave you think that windows useable you must not use much windows version crash protection wearing helmet while computing the arir air bag expensive add brett brett sherron ferrell email bferrell uceng edu cincy catch the cats college engineering you can friends don let friends windows wittism week think that wrong believe ism you should believe yourself ferrish bueller
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	please not post bitmaps though downloaded some the posted bitmaps myself the original poster quite right alternative try posting them comp binaries windows and just letting know good idea post the article number here peace micke michael panayiotakis louray seas gwu edu ace uunet seas gwu edu louray how make windows grp file reflect directory well ain always right but never been wrong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	leaking memory resources article csn org richardf teal csn org iriemon writes dmittleman bpavms bpa arizona edu daniel mittleman writes running win with ndw with meg memory and meg perm swap file and getting exceedingly frustrated that applications are not giving back system resources when close them noticed this also the way was explained that windows does not clear the upper memory blocks after program done anyone out there know this why there was post about something similar while back seems windows does not take upon itself free any sys resources applllication using when that application done that job left entirely the application that the application has clean after itself when quits anyone out there know there utility for windows which will clean sys resources when application quits mother zip peace mickey michael panayiotakis louray seas gwu edu ace uunet seas gwu edu louray how make windows grp file reflect directory well ain always right but never been wrong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help with changing startup logo there has been long running discussion over changing the startup logo for windows for few weeks here while all the copy methods are great haven seen any mention program that will for you well found one cica called winlogo can remember where unfortuantely and seems work real well even comes with couple example rle files what really like though way create rle files myself specifically the rle format mentioned the winlogo readme file can anyone point the direction such beast with real directory path all the ones seen mentioned didn pan out mail oddjob plymouth edu vms andys psc plymouth edu disclaimer any end user software that provides avenue for user the week modification programmability not user friendly
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	print file how print the file later here the situation home have word for windows but printer work have windows postscript printer but not word configure machine home use postscript printer and use the print file option which produces nice postscript file which then bring work question how print this postscript file through the print manager work for example select print from the file manager treats the postscript text file and gives several pages postscript gibberish know that can open dos window and copy file com which does work but seems not multitask very well other applications run rather slowly and often pause for seconds there ought way passing the postscript file the print manager but there can find any mention the documentation anyone know how this michael clase memorial university newfoundland mclase riemann math mun
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article bgzv uceng edu bferrell ant occ edu brett ferrell writes article apr samba oit unc edu dil admin mhs unc edu dave laudicina writes microsoft the largest software company the planet yet cannot think even one computing concept that they innovated and brought market before anyone else xerox parc apple osborne next gnu and others have been pioneers and led the way the future computing what has microsoft done technological leader posted this question before but got nary reply make the challenge now anyone who can come with something especially microsoft employees get response this time guess pretty much assures that there none which what suspect anyway really when you come down who cares just hope keeps doing what they best getting usable productive software the masses thx dave you think that windows useable you must not use much windows version crash protection wearing helmet while computing the arir air bag expensive add brett ladies gentlemen please keep this discussion comp windows advocacy where belongs thank you john grant jagrant emr emr airborne geophysics geological survey canada ottawa john grant jagrant emr emr airborne geophysics geological survey canada ottawa
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	emm and windows from article ardie cso uiuc edu ardie cso uiuc edu ardie mack almost exclusively run windows the only dos based application have procommplus config sys have emm loaded with the option noems expanded memory following thread one the comp newsgroups read that was necessary have emm loaded indeed emm noems enables the system use the upper memory between and that good place for device drivers dos kernal etc keep emm not reqired load the dos kernal high else you couldn mail message recommended that remove since only runs procomplus frequently dos and suspect emm will slow down windows charles cballen clemson edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	leaking memory resources here interesting table showing how much resources application uses and how much gives back shut down this take from windows user may issue application min resource use resource not returned gdi user gdi user winsleuth gold word for windows lotus arts and leters powerpoint corel draw micro designer crosstalk excel hijacck image color pro picture publisher powerleads executive adobe type manager skylight the numbers are percentage and are decreasing order what does this table tells you you frequently start and exit program that doesn give back all resources then you continually lose these resouces therefore only open these programs once and leave them open btw maybe people can add this list know what application watch out for later doug
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how respond lbuttondblclk using objectwindows trying resond the left button double click message lbuttondblclk combo box codes look like class mycombobox public tcombobox public mycombobox ptwindowsobject aparent int resourceid word atextlen tcombobox aparent resourceid atextlen virtual void wmlbuttondblclk rtmessage msg first lbuttondblclk void mycombobox wmlbuttondblclk rtmessage msg responding the message selecting the item the list box anything wrong with program any help would appreciated jun talk the lord with through windows
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how change icon for program windows article apr uenics evansville edu toelle uenics evansville edu chad toelle writes suppose you want change the particular icon for program windows such the dos one would someone let know how you can this depends wether you are going replace this with icon that comes standard with windows with icon from some other icon manager well one those that comes with windows just highlight the item clicking once click file and then properties you should see box which says change icon click you are going presented with some icons sometimes just one you don like any those presented click the browse box and look for the file moricons dll select browse through the icons presented and just double click your desired icon you want replace with icon from some other icon manager say iconpower for instance open the icon manager the bottom your screen where will not block the application icon you wish replace when you have found your desired icon click once and while holding the mouse button down pull this icon over the one you wish change and thats regards kan mongwa mongwa acsu buffalo edu state univeristy bitnet wxkp ubvms humpty dumpty new york buffalo wxkp ubvm
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	leaking memory resources dmittleman bpavms bpa arizona edu daniel mittleman writes this may faq please direct the known answer but getting frustrated and looking for help running win with ndw with meg memory and meg perm swap file and getting exceedingly frustrated that applications are not giving back system resources when close them many lines deleted danny daniel david mittleman danny arizona edu danny while working shareware toolbar found myself eating resources and very wise person pointed the sdk and specifically the debug kernel once you have all the sdk stuff installed this also comes with you run which does normal debug swap the debug kernel runs slower but you then execute the command dbwin and let report you what going you are going find out lot more about your apps than you cared and possibly about other peoples apps that opa sorry this doesn make sense repost mail dave dave campbell wynapse wynapse wynapse indirect com the shareware custom control source
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	looking for organizer looking for organizer program for windows currently have lotus organizer not bad but looking for better should have calender scheduler should have list nice additions address phone book diary please any suggestions shareware public copyrighted please email sthong eniac seas upenn edu steven hong email address sthong eniac seas upenn edu university pennsylvania engineering class
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	leaking memory resources article apr seas gwu edu louray seas gwu edu michael panayiotakis writes article csn org richardf teal csn org iriemon writes dmittleman bpavms bpa arizona edu daniel mittleman writes running win with ndw with meg memory and meg perm swap file and getting exceedingly frustrated that applications are not giving back system resources when close them noticed this also the way was explained that windows does not clear the upper memory blocks after program done anyone out there know this why there was post about something similar while back seems windows does not take upon itself free any sys resources applllication using when that application done that job left entirely the application that the application has clean after itself when quits anyone out there know there utility for windows which will clean sys resources when application quits mother zip peace mickey could also that your shell hogging the resources for example open the apps with data files that cause resulting low system resources with ndw shell then the same with program manager and see the shell the apps ted
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	wfworkgroups server goes deaf has anyone else observed this behaviour and what have you done cure one workstation wfw network goes deaf any form communication from other workstations until goes out the network itself from then other workstatons can interact with until some time later when goes deaf again the workstation set share its discs etc the machine ram with diamond stealth video behaves this way with variety bit network adapters including smc elite also behaves the same way use the windows vga driver rather than the diamond drivers
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows and ati ultra mach chip sizing question have just upgraded from trident tvga ati graphics ultra the old mach chip quite pleased with the performance far but have one problem when using windows have noticed that the tile bars and scroll bars are significantly larger than they were when was using the trident card there setting ini files that can change make these smaller could not find the faq for this list mike mdtancsa watarts uwaterloo
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	laser jet and windows has anybody had chance find out how the new laser jet behaves with windows daniel royer
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	roman bmp please don post uuencoded bitmaps here you want put them the alt binaries areas these files are very large and may crash some users newsfeeds also waste band width also all know how convert gif bmp with many programs really not worth posting all these bmp files thanks kirk membry our age the age industry rutgers viamar kmembry alexander rodchenko
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help needed dos apps and windows since loading windows two dos applications have been acting strangely appears that font changes and page orientation changes far are not being recognized wordperfect dos and quattropro dos another dos application does accept font and page orientation changes don think the problem with the printer reloaded quattropro and these changes are still not accepted whether launching from windows the dos prompt does anyone have any suggestions where look how correct this problem ordered quattropro for windows but need landscape application printed immediately please mail thanks advance sue bittner internet nigs cmuvm csv cmich edu central michigan university bitnet nigs cmuvm pleasant
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters stuff deleted about microsoft bferrell ant occ edu brett ferrell writes you think that windows useable you must not use much windows version crash protection wearing helmet while computing the arir air bag expensive add brett you must read too many advertisements crash protection such marketing gimick isn funny out months using windows new machine only had crash once and don have run the mill configuration microsoft not leader innovation but they certainly know how build better mousetrap now what wrong with that larry ludes ludwig always taken twice get clemson university compsci undergrad right you never heard the ludes hubcap clemson edu apple ludes clemson clemson edu steve jobs
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	roman bmp response the requests for cool bitmaps posting one hello cliff many people the internet like have pay for every byte data passed through subscribed news groups bitmaps are large bitmaps cost lot money there are special news groups for bitmaps because this don subscribe them put you bitmaps the right place read one the faq guides the newuser groups and will tell you all about bitmaps and the thousands establishments like mine that you have just cost money some them have very limited budgets away this flame you distribution usa didn work kenb ken blackler jet fusion jet joint undertaking abingdon energy for the oxfordshire england far future disclaimer please note that the above personal view and should not construed official comment from the jet project
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need help with wordperfect for windows trying install wordperfect for windows computer running meg ram and meg virtual mem setting for windows keep getting errors when try run tells that don have enough memory disk space since have megs free the assuming that don have enough memory can anyone tell what takes run this beast thanks stealth dave destill mtu edu you are caught using this address internet will deny any responsibility its use this mail will self destruct seconds
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	some info the dos msw meltdown progressing nicely article messinac iho netcom com messina netcom com tony porczyk writes ajayshah almaak usc edu ajay shah writes the preferred applications development platform according the fortune corporations survey sentry market research survey unix mainframe dos msw development what house apps maybe but certainly not apps sold open market statistics like that are laughable because they may simply mean that there are not enough shrink wrapped usable apps for unix and they have developed disproportionately often compared the installed unix base actually you might surprised find that not everyone who develops mainstream dos and windows apps develops them under dos windows week recently printed rumor that microsoft excel development group does its development under another trade rag did article recently about group doing windows development sun sparcstations with softpc test out their work sco unix and has been reasonably popular development platform for dos windows and even apps dos and windows are simply not robust stable enough for development work imho and apparently others agree marc fraioli mfraioli grebyn com minimalist
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may hubcap clemson edu ludes hubcap clemson edu larry ludes ludwig writes stuff deleted about microsoft bferrell ant occ edu brett ferrell writes you think that windows useable you must not use much windows version crash protection wearing helmet while computing the arir air bag expensive add brett you must read too many advertisements crash protection such marketing gimick isn funny out months using windows new machine only had crash once and don have run the mill configuration microsoft not leader innovation but they certainly know how build better mousetrap now what wrong with that larry ludes ludwig always taken twice get clemson university compsci undergrad right you never heard the ludes hubcap clemson edu apple ludes clemson clemson edu steve jobs does sound funny will admit but for true windows crashed all the time and from what have read mag this not the exception gives each windows app vdm and they can touch each other generally anything they aren supposed have windows works for you then great maybe this why some people don see why the choice windows doesn crash you and you don mind waiting each task and not being able adress your memory better than dos some the key reasons for using are gone probably would still use but would more even fight brett brett sherron ferrell email bferrell uceng edu cincy catch the cats college engineering you can friends don let friends windows wittism week think that wrong believe ism you should believe yourself ferrish bueller
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters ludes hubcap clemson edu larry ludes ludwig writes stuff deleted about microsoft bferrell ant occ edu brett ferrell writes you think that windows useable you must not use much windows version crash protection wearing helmet while computing the arir air bag expensive add brett you must read too many advertisements crash protection such marketing gimick isn funny out months using windows new machine only had crash once and don have run the mill configuration wow what did you use for single tasked word processing have files loaded right now and virtual machine ram friend down the street gripes that can even format floppy the background many unix people love because they are used multi tasking systems microsoft not leader innovation but they certainly know how build better mousetrap now what wrong with that too bad they hold gun the mouse piper while they throw mice their new trap trying get work kenton cmu edu fixes broken windows
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	what does the bmp format mean article robertsa unix tcd robertsa unix tcd andrew roberts writes what exactly does the windows bitmap format look like mean how the data stored width height colours bitmap data couldn find anything ths user manual there any other reference material which would give this information from thomas sunshine kodak com thomas kinsman newsgroups comp windows programmer misc alt binaries pictures utilities subject dib bmp creation guide requested keywords dib bmp bitmaps file formats message dec kodak kodak com date dec gmt sender news kodak kodak com organization precambiran electronics rochester lines xref cradle titech comp windows programmer misc guide creation dib images thomas kinsman precambrian electronics falstaff rochester thomask kodak com copyright march abstract the format images created for use windows applications documented the windows programmer reference guide this guide intended clearify some wording the specifications and put forth recommendation among the various alternatives please send updates corrections suggestions and revisions please thank for writing this own time keeping name with the document thank you for your respect this document copyright thomas kinsman desired postscript version this document available this information free you get more than what you pay for don sue wrong overview the dib image file format intended device independent bitmap file format what microsoft means device independent unclear four pixel resolutions are supported bit bit bit and bit pixels these images were intended for use dos ibm little endian systems you are creating them another architecture you will have byte swap all short and long integer values convention dib images end the extension bmp this because march they are super set earlier bitmap image files consequently you will sometimes hear dib files referred bmp files since dib images files are super set there are three flavors dib images dos dib images these are the recommended convention and the form which will describe how create they are intended for applications running under windows dos environment dib images understanding that these are the flavor dib images that were used the presentation manager old style bitmap images march differences between flavors the dos dib images consist bitmapfileheader file header which identifies the file dib file this header also gives the total size the image file and the offset the image data bitmapinfoheader image header which specifies the image attributes optional palette colors used the image exists this may contain entries each entry windows rgbquad structure the image data itself the dib images consist the same bitmapfileheader file header which identifies the file dib file this header also gives the total size the image file and the offset the image data bitmapcoreheader image header which specifies the image attributes optional palette colors used the image again this exists may contain entries each entry windows rgbtriple structure the image data itself the old style image bitmap consists either bitmapinfoheader bitmapcoreheader which header type determined the first long integer dword value optional color palette this palette may composed either windows rgbquad structures the header was bitmapinfoheader windows rgbtriple structures the header was bitmapcoreheader the image data itself creating dib image files creating dos dib image file consists several straight forward steps the headers need created and then written the file these header structures are defined the windows windows include file palette information needs stored for images that are not bit images the five general steps are filling the bitmapfileheader and the bitmapinfoheader structures the basic image information the image bit bit bit image creating the color palette rgbquads calculating the total file size and putting this information march the bfsize field the bitmapfileheader calculating the offset the image data from the start the file and putting this the bfoffbits field the bitmapfileheader writing the file the bitmapfileheader the bitmapinfoheader the color palette and the image data that order the following sections describe structures terms microsoft type defined keywords the following table describes these keywords for those not familiar with microsoft type defined keywords microsoft typedef meaning byte unsigned character word two byte unsigned integer dword four byte unsigned integer march the bitmapfileheader this structure defined windows typedef struct tagbitmapfileheader word bftype dword bfsize word bfreserved word bfreserved dword bfoffbits bitmapfileheader the bftype field the two ascii characters and this serves identify the file dib image file intel byte ordered machine ibm compatible this constant can formed the quantity intel system the bfsize field the total size the file for our purposes this field equal the size the bitmapfileheader plus the size the bitmapinfoheader plus the number entries the color palette times the size rgbquad plus the number bytes image data the image data being written out uncompressed form this value can calculated ahead time otherwise this field needs filled later both the bfreserved and the bfreserved fields are always set zero the bfoffbits field set the offset the start the image data from the start the file for our purposes this field should set the size the bitmapfileheader plus the size the bitmapinfoheader plus the number entries the color palette times the size rgbquad this works out because the image data written write after the color palette one exists march the bitmapinfoheader this structure defined windows typedef struct tagbitmapinfoheader dword bisize dword biwidth dword biheight word biplanes word bibitcount dword bicompression dword bisizeimage dword bixpelspermeter dword biypelspermeter dword biclrused dword biclrimportant bitmapinfoheader the bisize field set the size the bitmapinfoheader structure itself when reading the image file this value what used determine that the image contains bitmapinfoheader and not bitmapcoreheader the biwidth field the width the image image pixels the biheight field the height the image image lines the biplanes field should always set this data written out there was one color plane the bibitcount field the bit depth the image this must either depending the bit depth the image data the bicompression field tells how the image data compressed compressed dib images support two forms run length encoding however have never seen any images which use and don know yet how works set this field zero long zero indicate that the data not compressed all subsequent fields the bitmapinfoheader structure may set zero requirement the interpretting software that able compute these fields necessary from the previous information the field which you might want explicitly specify might biclrused for bit and bit images this field indicates that not all the possible color entries are used and that the image contains biclrused colors you are using only colors with bit image then you may only want save the possible palette entries generally set this field zero march color palettes each entry color palette rgbquad structure the rgbquad structure defined the windows include file typedef struct tagrgbquad byte rgbblue byte rgbgreen byte rgbred byte rgbreserved rgbquad the rgbreserved field always zero for each color used the amount blue green and red are filled into the structure and the structure written the file value zero the rgbblue rgbgreen rgbred fields indicates that that particular component does not contribute the color composition value any these fields indicates that the component contributes fully the color composition image data there are three surprises about the ordering image data dib image file the creator this format was determined creative and certainly was within the image data each line written out padded the next four byte quantity you had bit image which was only one pixel wide you still have write out four bytes for every image line the number bytes per line can calculated bytes per line width pix bit depth terms the fields the bitmapinfoheader structure bytes per line biwidth bibitcount when writing out your image data you must write out bottom line first the bottom line the image you would look the screen the first line image data the file for bit bit and bit images information written you would expect one bit images are padded eight pixels byte four bit images are padded two pixels byte eight bit images are written one pixel per byte twenty four bit images are written three bytes per pixel however for bit images the information must written out the order blue green red while most image file formats write data out march rgb ordering dib image file writes the data out bgr ordering summary this should provide enough information create dib images from applications such scanners for image exporting routines you find out any more about dib images please pass the information that can modify this document accordingly march thomas kinsman rochester thomas acadia kodak com practice random kindness and senseless acts beauty anon ito takayuki yuki tokyo senior department infomation science faculty science university tokyo japan
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	telemate windows help have very funny yet confusing problem using telemate within win everytime close dos box telemate operation get affected normally doing file transfer however open close windows program everything seems running smoothly file transfer operation get affected only close dos box can somebody please gimme some pointers what going and how fix thanks advance glenn jayaputera
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	changing windows fonts friend mine uses windows most her work unfortunately she has very bad eyesight and haven been able figure out how change the default font used the system and application menus the font used the help program what use hypertext you can read make legible her anyone knows how increase the size these fonts any software package that makes windows more accessible visually handicapped people please let know thanks dan
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article uceng edu bferrell ant occ edu brett ferrell writes article may hubcap clemson edu ludes hubcap clemson edu larry ludes ludwig writes munch you must read too many advertisements crash protection such marketing gimick isn funny out months using windows new machine only had crash once and don have run the mill configuration munch following reformatted does sound funny will admit but for true windows crashed all the time and from what have read mag this not the exception say that the massive crash problems are exceedingly rare windows itself almost never crashes but can crashed errant application personal favorite any one the corel programs the other hand have had crash randomly number times mostly just running own applications for instance today discovered new one while was downloading with procomm plus for windows running seamless with the standard vga drivers run mill vga card decided that wanted edit copy quote that wanted add finger but since learned not really trust seamless fired full screen winos session whoops the download finished while winos was loading had just gotten the pointer hit alt escape get back the desktop have lot fonts loading takes good long while blam screen trashed procomm hangs well can sorta see the mouse clicked the minimized winos session and got back fullscreen windows session but the color were off red and green and yellow and brown instead blues and greys closed this and got back the desktop now fully restored was still sitting window open but was longer connected the com port exited the normal way told was still online and would hang though was already hung well load anothe bad idea shutdown and reboot refresh first now shutdown yes everything closed nothing seems happening let see the windows list still comes let try shutdown again huh alright wait seconds see just running slow hmm still seems running try shutdown again nothing well reboot enjoy the checkdisk time this case part the crashed not only itself but entirely which isn even smart enough tell when been compromised guess everyday specifically today use gives each windows app vdm and they can touch each other generally anything they aren supposed have that the idea anyway truth when program crashes will bring the system down with the programs that would just gpf under windows the same under but programs that are fine under dos and windows bring screaming halt task protection for instance still wondering why print preview windowed dos locks system works fine under dos even dos box under windows admittedly doesn crash run full screen but the first time this bug big bit hard windows works for you then great maybe this why some people don see why the choice windows doesn crash you and you don mind waiting each task please explain the only time wait anything under windows when copying formatting floppy when printing and even then not long get pages dumped the printman per minute and can still things slowly while doing this downloaded with while printing and not being able adress your memory better than dos not sure what you mean here sees megs uses six these for own use more you want count winos windows sees megs uses more like you count the disk cache for for itself memory efficiency were big issue geos would the current king the intel desktop some the key reasons for using are gone probably would still use but would more even fight the other hand finally able say with some confidence that both and windows have bit hardware sensitivity them for instance the machine sitting runs both fine while the machine next constantly locks under windows but ran without hitch once got through crash install the whole say whole lot more sensitive than windows but there are suppose machines that windows just doesn like wittism week think that wrong believe ism you should believe yourself ferrish bueller wasn this ferris bueller there are stupid laws and then there are stupider than normal laws
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	nextstep intel sneak preview reminder phang the philadelphia area nextstep user group will holding public sneak preview nextstep for intel processors where david rittenhouse labs room and walnut southeast corner philadelphia when wednesday may nextstep the bit unix based operating environment which has until now only been available motorola based next computers the may issue magazine called nextstep hot prospect now next nearing release version nextstep which will run based yet identical the version fact nextstep includes the ability easily compile program into single binary which will run both intel and motorola hardware nextstep for intel processors will demonstrated epson progression computer nextstep scheduled for release may nextworld expo san francisco the demonstration will open the public come one come all you are interested seeing the most advanced operating system around come for brief summary what nextstep offers see the may issue magazine page for more information contact jonathan hendry phang the philadelphia area nextstep user group jon afs com jonathan hendry drexel university college info studies tjhendry queen mcs drexel edu the experience programming windows the experience programming nextstep like going the dentist and having root canal without anaesthetic going the dentist and having your gums cleaned some nitrous oxide thrown for the entertainment side things bbum stone jonathan hendry drexel university college info studies tjhendry queen mcs drexel edu the experience programming windows the experience programming nextstep like going the dentist and having root canal without anaesthetic going the dentist and having your gums cleaned some nitrous oxide thrown for the entertainment side things bbum stone
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters previous article thomasez dhhalden thomas lundquist wrote they invented the how make money others ideas they made money they weren the air the wrong time hewhalesshavethewhalesshavethewhalesshavebillgatesshavethewhalesshavethew doesn have beard rob being pointless wondeing anyone else caught that any resemblance between the above views and rob those faculty advisor terminal mohns the view out window are purely coinci dental richard traina may may not rmohns vax support said views but probably doesn clarku edu want clarkies think about them
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	required file format word for window file doc article cosmosc bcz kee netcom com cosmos netcom com cosmos writes trying develop utility view word for window file but that need know the format the doc word for window file format files can anybody tell what the format doc file direct where can get proprietory format your help greatly appriciated thanks the format for word for windows doc files available from microsoft call their developer support services number sorry don have handy and ask for the word for windows binary file format spec warning not terribly useful and you will need lot looking before you can figure out how the stuff stored general primer word for windows stores its data two chunks the first chunk the actual text the file this all stored together and has nothing but text and graphics the second chunk the formatting information for general use read word for windows file skip the first bytes the file its general header then read the remaining text until you hit binary data matt
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may wam umd edu rsrodger wam umd edu yamanari writes article uceng edu bferrell ant occ edu brett ferrell writes article may hubcap clemson edu ludes hubcap clemson edu larry ludes ludwig writes and not being able adress your memory better than dos not sure what you mean here sees megs uses six these for own use more you want count winos windows sees megs uses more like you count the disk cache for for itself memory efficiency were big issue geos would the current king the intel desktop assumed was referring bit flat model addressing while dos and therefore windows use bit segmented addressing programmer agree that segmentation unnecessarily complicates things annoying too but when just windows user don think about much and doubt many other people think about even care when just writing document calcing spreadsheet etc works and they get their work done just neutral comment funny think how arguments about windows sound very similar arguments about atheism christianity something like that somehow very personal people convictions are irrational and there nothing wrong with that just interesting brad smalling tech atlanta prism gatech edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters rsrodger wam umd edu yamanari writes say that the massive crash problems are exceedingly rare windows itself almost never crashes but can crashed errant application personal favorite any one the corel programs the other hand have had crash randomly number times mostly just running own applications know that ibm systems the slc particular have absolutely problem with never had random crash while running any programs under fact don remember ever crashing course really don run any programs just the same bunch dos and windows stuff that always been running and when had the slc this the slc system running dos windows had only one crash and was consistent ftp had tendency crash whenever would get large files from particularly fast clients dtr sec figured out the problem was with smartdrv write buffering turned off the write buffer everything would work fine ftp under has never locked though can even format floppies use the most often cited example the superiority for instance still wondering why print preview windowed dos locks system yeah guess willing admit that somewhat sensitive specific hardware for dos works perfectly fine slc please explain the only time wait anything under windows when copying formatting floppy when printing and even then not long get pages dumped the printman per minute and can still things slowly while doing this downloaded with while printing well save all personal files floppy and when did that under windows floppy save large file hung the system also found quite bothersome have continually tweak the tasking options fractint for dos whenever wanted fractal computation the background and not being able address your memory better than dos not sure what you mean here the idea that dos sessions can see more memory than windows dos sessions let xpl shareware calculus program see around free conventional memory which lets bigger symbolic manipulations than possible under straight dos where would see around conventional ram also found really handy for own dos based programs which without any writing could now handle larger data sets simulate for more iterations etc course the point now moot since the programs now write simply never run into memory limitations never programmed for windows don have much comparison here though
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	some info the dos msw meltdown progressing nicely mfraioli grebyn com marc fraioli writes messina netcom com tony porczyk writes ajayshah almaak usc edu ajay shah writes the preferred applications development platform unix dos msw development what house apps maybe but certainly not apps sold open market statistics like that are laughable actually you might surprised find that not everyone who develops mainstream dos and windows apps develops them under dos windows week recently printed rumor that microsoft excel development group does its development under you believe that have nice piece for swamp for you for development microsoft does even its techpubs under windows another trade rag did article recently about group doing windows development sun sparcstations with softpc test out their work that wasn geo works was dos and windows are simply not robust stable enough for development work imho and apparently others agree nonsense sorry make fun windows all the time but the above simply myth tell that microsoft novell and others who dominate the market
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	coda music finale and petrucci font problem been using final from coda for some time but suddenly stopped using fonts have with lots disk space and memory postscript laser win finale and recently installed atm been fiddling around with the windows setup for some time and when needed some work with finale things didn print properly might and might not have anything with the installation atm from something but don have the old atm lying around anomore the most annoying problem was that the petrucci font didn print which rather important font managed get direct printing work included ownps the finale section win ini but compile postscript listing still doesn work and those eps files need when look the eps files generated the only font which appears there courier found out that manually changed the courier point petrucci point the eps file everything worked but rather avoid that since have lot songs work with and yes the special font font names dialog box all the fonts need are listed with the correct mapping between finale screen and printer fonts finale obviously aware the fonts since direct printing score works well that after included ownps and all other windows applications print petrucci and the other fonts well has anyone encountered problems like this what the current version finale from coda music software have are the people coda available internet grateful for all hints and help mats internet mats gar quikcomm mats gar genor serverp mats garp mats tande oslo telemax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how can make mpeg sound hello install one wav driver speaker then install mpeg phoenix oulu pub incoming mpeg mpegexe zip windows but when load one mpeg file and make sound type wav mpeg always say error when load one mpeg file which have wav file wav then select sound type wav normal and error but still can hear sound what should fix the sounddrv number mfw ini thankx for any help internet address nctu edu english name erik wang chinese name wang jyh shyang national chiao tung university taiwan
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why not using dos anymore article apr hubcap clemson edu charlea eng clemson edu writes regarding the horror stories about dos doubledisk and stacker killing hard drives was wondering the dos mirror command works the doubled drive info well the normal fat table and partition table records the vital doubledisk info then using daily should long way toward protecting yourself against the type catastrophic failure discussed doesn then shame microsoft mirror one those dos commands that didn survive the change from dos been dropped along with backup join edlin and couple other crummy old dos commands you can still use the commands you absolutely have but they are not included the distribution disks however mirror case certain that does not know anything about doublespaced drives eric eric trepanier internet eric tgm cam org grenon laval quebec everybody has right believe something canada believe have another beer
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows how get the beta was just wondering anyone new how could get the beta version windows and part the beta program thanks gel binkley mcgill please reply mail
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	novell and windows working workstation which usually attached novell network using shell version think the workstation was set run windows with the network about year ago needless say like upgrade windows and have work with the network basically the windows files the local hard drive but several dos applications like word perfect will the network mainly want windows access the network drives the network printers and perhaps handle some network functions well could multitask the dos apps whose executables are the network that great but could live without eventually like get few other the office working with the network and windows well however most the terminals are which leaves the network pretty much dos bound and guess that leaves out windows for workgroups and the future maybe there norton desktop but that gettingahead myself you can guess never done anything like this before read through the networks material that came with windows but still like know anyone out there has any experience such area please reply email don scan these newsgroups often thanks for any replies brian rev siano revpk cellar org well know right away the look her eyes she lost all illusions and she worldly wise and know give her listen she what been missing what been missing lost love and havin some fun with cynical girl who got use for the real world looking for cynical girl marshall crenshaw cynical girl
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	drivers for stealth debrown hubcap clemson edu david brown writes doug ward writes recently purchased diamond stealth video card and received the wrong drivers does anyone know where can ftp the proper drivers the dstlth file cica does not work with this video card please respond doug sun sws uiuc edu thank you doug ward you want get them and get them now also the most date use the bbs they may take hour download when rates are low yeah know costs but locking your system gets old quick maybe someone has them the net got the stealth drivers david the number you gave the borland bbs and darned can find any stealth drivers there diamond bbs according the manual got with stealth have had bunch trouble using the right drivers that came with the card locking syncing etc hope you better than dave
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	video benchmarks wanted trying compile chart for windows and dos performance local bus video card you have and one the local bus video cards below please email your winbench and dbench obtainable ftp wustl edu pub msdos uploads scores please give winmark score and will post the chart enough response received tseng vlb vlb based local bus card ati ultra pro vlb orchid celsius vlb agx based vlb cards they exist matox mga based video cards thanks all
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need help recording key mousestrokes windows sorry about confusing subject summary keywords postgrad researcher esl applied linguistics edith cowan university perth western australia desperately need help need record the results word processing sessions windows that can sit down and replay the results research subjects wordprocessing behaviours naturally can this with the windows macrorecorder and other apps windows but cannot pause resume all can ctrl break get out this useless for researcher who needs able pause the wordprocessing session replaying make notes annotations and then resume from where left off just about commence research for masters thesis and would extremely grateful for any assistance anyone can help could they mail johnoliver odin dialix many thanks advance john oliver
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	postscript bmp conversion all working project visual basic ver and need show postcript files getting from another aplication because can show postscript directly form visual basic least don know how need utility convert them bmp wmf any help will appreshieated kobi elimelech messges can sent kobi asimov hacktic
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need iconized printer utility looking for printer utility which stay window icon and let you drag file issue the printing
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters hey larry how can you comp sci major and never crash damn computer what does your dept teach you are you just that good programmer that not one your assembly programs have ever downed your machine crash protection such marketing gimick isn funny out months using windows new machine only had crash once and don have run the mill configuration why you bother putting such stupid posts are you that ignorant bob campbell clarkson university potsdam campbers craft clarkson edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need iconized printer utility article zhao auvm american edu zhao auvm american edu writes looking for printer utility which stay window icon and let you drag file issue the printing you have one minimize the print manager and drag file and will print you need associate file extensions with such things the notepad for this though tony annese claebaur shell portal com claebaur cup portal com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters yamanari hey isn funny how betas have bugs them hey favor and don put stupid posts bob clarkson university potsdam campbers craft clarkson edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	replacement for program article uupcb idcbbs com les tom idcbbs com les tom writes maw ying yuan wrote from yuan wiliki eng hawaii edu maw ying yuan subject replacement for program manager and file manager message juj news hawaii edu date thu apr gmt replacements for win program manager and file manager yuan wiliki eng hawaii edu been using plannet crafter plug for program manager the best one seen ceo sloop software they have sharware version but the retail version only incredibly complete subfolders any level choose any icon hot keys drop down menus button bars etc haven found anything doesn try mailing compuserve com for details tom tom hansen beard grows toes never wears tom vpnet chi clothes wraps hair around bare and yam what yam down the road goes shel silverstein
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why mouse jumpy mouse everyone seems think that this man mouse problem mechanical its dirty have been having similar problem with mouse and only occurs when nning windows and therefore cannot mechanical nature running mouse systems compatible mouse with trident meg video card and experienceing similar jumpiness well strange font subsitutions and mous traces left screen and windows gpf errors help
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need iconized printer utility article eval unix portal com claebaur shell portal com tony annese writes article zhao auvm american edu zhao auvm american edu writes looking for printer utility which stay window icon and let you drag file issue the printing you have one minimize the print manager and drag file and will print you need associate file extensions with such things the notepad for this though tony annese claebaur shell portal com claebaur cup portal com this may work but won involve invoking the applications you drag bmp txt file the min print manager icon won run notepad and paintbrush before printing you just want drag file txt bmp print server icon with stay front attributes you need intelligent print manager drag and drop client like amish print ted
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	off line mail for netnews are there any off line mail readers for the net news qwk format would really helpfull able download the net news from vax mainframe and read off line adam hodge arhodge miavx acs muohio edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need iconized printer utility article ezhn jlq tsoft net tedm tsoft net ted matsumura writes article eval unix portal com claebaur shell portal com tony annese writes you have one minimize the print manager and drag file and will print you need associate file extensions with such things the notepad for this though this may work but won involve invoking the applications you drag bmp txt file the min print manager icon won run notepad and paintbrush before printing you just want drag file txt bmp print server icon with stay front attributes you need intelligent print manager drag and drop client like amish print yes invokes the associated application that takes but seconds tony annese claebaur shell portal com claebaur cup portal com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	problem dos box from windows this file compressed started getting message from windows whenever try execute dos program from windows either thru the program manager the file manager message box comes and says this program one its components compressed use the dos expand command expand the file now know this bogus because can always execute the program from dos when not running windows the program question command com yup the basic dos command line shell and the expand command tells that the file already expanded all windows apps work just fine only get this message when trying execute dos program from windows clues anyone thanks christopher wroten cfw world std com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	wordbasic time date variables writing mail management system using word for windows front end the user dials remote system and downloads batch mail foo txt set autoexec macro winword load foo txt but subsequent invocations the macro will course pose file name contention problems what really like create autoexit macro winword that would move foo txt specified directory rename using the current date and time and delete the original foo txt other words foo txt gets renamed say may the user gets time indexed backup his mail files and foo txt freed for the next packet mail since autoexec macro points main question this how may one rename file from within wordbasic macro include time date variable the new filename thanks you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer bet makes beer shoot out your nose jack handey erich lantz ewl world std com timberville dod
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	changing windows fonts previous article ellard husc harvard edu daniel ellard says friend mine uses windows most her work unfortunately she has very bad eyesight and haven been able figure out how change the default font used the system and application menus the font used the help program what use hypertext you can read make legible her anyone knows how increase the size these fonts any software package that makes windows more accessible visually handicapped people please let know thanks dan the may issue computing page has windows hint and tips for just this thing you have edit the win ini file and add couple lines tried and works actually made title bar and iconized text and icon text smaller monitor works well you can select larger font also you edit the win ini file with font name your system directory read the article because would not want retype here case type errored and caused your system problems artin this communication sent artin university arizona tucson cleveland freenet edu mlinsenb ccit arizona edu mlinsenb arizvms death has been dead for about years follow the king kings
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	which sound board buy well come into some money and want buy rom sound board and speakers have not kept any material relating sound boards and rom because until now never thought have enough money can you guru out there point the direction good package including rom sound and speakers and software suppose since don really need the rom right now give some good ideas for sound boards and speakers those could really use now have looked soundblaster pro which costs about much think want spend board and looked the gravis sound board which about and don know the adv disadv either these boards right now want use with any games that support sound and use windows utilize sound capabilities there any concise info sound boards complete multimedia packages etc would greatly appreciated anyone else interested this info would glad summarize responses and post and this some type faq please point the right direction and don bother taking lot bandwidth thanks brett brett watson database system administrator kansas supreme court topeka
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows and ati ultra mach chip sizing question article watserv uwaterloo mike tancsa mdtancsa watarts uwaterloo writes have just upgraded from trident tvga ati graphics ultra the old mach chip quite pleased with the performance far but have one problem when using windows have noticed that the tile bars and scroll bars are significantly larger than they were when was using the trident card there setting ini files that can change make these smaller could not find the faq for this list mike mdtancsa watarts uwaterloo make sure you use the small fonts driver not the large fonts driver check that your setup that the only explanation would find hope this helps gel
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	when will ready when will able call favorite mail order software shop and buy jeff dragovich dragovic cevax uiuc edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why mouse jumpy mouse article cunyvm bitnet cunyvm bitnet writes everyone seems think that this man mouse problem mechanical its dirty have been having similar problem with mouse and only occurs when nning windows and therefore cannot mechanical nature its understanding that bus mice are more accurate and stable general than serial mice remember correctly its because the differences how the interrupts are handled well the fact that the mouse data received over the computer bus opposed bps serial connection running mouse systems compatible mouse with trident meg video card and experienceing similar jumpiness well strange font subsitutions and mous traces left screen and windows gpf errors help this just general problem associated with specific application group applications
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	emm and windows hallo ebosco oracle com wrote about emm and windows von ebosco oracle com name eric bosco should use emm should remove from config sys basically windows prefers extendend memory instead expanded more work for win and application desperatly needs ems you should leave emm with rem your config sys bye chris
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	wordbasic visual basic macros template working with visual basic for windows specifically working application that generates formatted reports since some these reports can rather large first question there way increase the size list box text box visual basic windows beyond the limit have not yet being optimistic come across way get around the above problem working the following approach trying create own defined template word using the wordbasic macros that can open word from visual basic and load this template mine which will work the following way will first open myown ini file created the time when the user selected the kind report weanted and read the section from the ini file and jump the appropriate code template which will then open and read file pertaining the section read from the ini file when using the getprofilestring function wordbasic there way specify change the default ini file which win ini myown ini file when using the file input function wordbasic there way read more than the one time any help will appreciated pgupta magnus acs ohio state edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	recommendation for screen capture program looking for some recommendations for screen capture programs couple issues ago mag listed editor choices both conversion artist and hijaak for windows anyone have any experience with those some others trying get alpha manual the next few days and not making much progress with the screen shots currently using dodot and about burn and the disks rode got lot freaky bugs and oversights that are driving crazy tonight decided that for any graphic writes out tiff file that under certain arbitrary size will swap the left and right sides the picture usually confines itself not copying things the clipboard have save and load pix for editing paintbrush crashing every hour the one nice thing has though dither option you think that this would turn colors into dots which does you from say colors colors but you from colors you can set threshold level for which colors turn black and which turn white for this useful because can turn light grays buttons white and the dark grays black and thereby preserve the effect buttons and other parts the window you understood description can you tell another less buggy program can this well much thanks for any help signature david delgreco what lies behind and what lies technically writer before are tiny matters compared delgreco rahul net what lies within oliver wendell holmes david delgreco delgreco rahul net
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	hercules graphite results tomh metrics com tom haapanen writes has anyone used hercules graphite adapter looks good paper and steve gibson gave very good review infoworld love get real world impression though how the speed drivers support rda monu monash edu wuysang writes but the impressive performance the graphite was not its winmark was its wintach result esp the paint performance judging from the wintach tests can hardly imagine that there cheat driver for received graphite thursday and had little bit experience with now general feels fast although this the first vlb card that have tried still the results are impressive with running had the following wintach results card cad spread paint overall ati graphics ultra ati ultra aperture hercules graphite unfortunately don have the numbers here but the ati ultra pro vlb had overall wintach score about the ultra pro was nearly fast text handling but was blown away the cad and paint tests additional test hand timed complex coreldraw slide resize redraw times there was swapping but expect there fairly heavy load the cpu the graphite redraw times averaged about seconds with ati ultra pro this jives with steve gibson contention that the isa graphite faster than ati his complex micrografx draw document far very impressed the drivers look solid and the card flies the installation and utilities are different but comparable ati and didn have wait for build for some reliability with hercules software developer special you can get evaluation copy the card for just for the isa version call you want give try happy customer now tom haapanen tomh metrics com software metrics inc waterloo ont stick your index fingers into both corners your mouth now pull that how the corrado makes you feel car january
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	opinions wanted fastest win driver for yesterday friend mine got new driver for his card that more than doubled the speed naturally besides being tad jealous same machine different cards got thinking what using slow driver wouldn that horrible netlanders need samples your collective experience sic you proud owners trident video card vram have tried out more than one driver fro win which which the fastest not selfish and give you motive for responding promise going collect all the answers and the actual drivers provided give site get from uuencode mail get the winmarks using magazine winbench and post the results here interested svga drivers only plain vga users should run the win driver this what heard dont flame particularly and that should cover the majority svga users well what are you waiting for hit that whatever all input welcome are money and sun sparcstations thanx advance costas malamas georgia institute technology oit oit doesn pay enough share their opinions internet ccastco prism gatech edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may vax clarku edu rmohns vax clarku edu writes and would hardly call command that can delete tree and move command state the art wiz bang feature they are damn necessary have often cursed not being able have some kind recursive delete you are missing something with the windows file manager you can but don want have run blasted windows every time want delete tree absolutely ludicrous load hog like that just delete some files would like requiring crane change the tyre car wants people buy windows not dos knows dos won last forever only because its crap which noones fault but their own they want you move windows then later win and eventually cairo this way they give you reason deliberately crippling the product surely hold guess you right that certainly stinks microsoft marketing techniques but the point still remains that command delete trees not new technology and the kind thing one would have expected see long before windows was even dreamt want good file handling use fileman exe this product requires microsoft windows dos dead well amen that but wish were damn sight deader for dead product its used awful lot and suspect its going carry twitching for long while yet which isn doing anyone any good and microsoft don appear have given marketing dos very unusual form death indeed tim walls sysop protocol bbs data fax fidonet amiganet twalls ncc demon pgp public key available
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	equation editor article may iitmax iit edu vaxtools chico acc iit edu falke bruinsma wildthing writes hiya using word for windows and quite satisfied with except the equation editor screws all the time when try insert equation will give two errors fence font not found and meta font not found the real problem that will not display print out the integral sign does anyone else have this problem and how solve using sport laptop with panasonic printer running msdos and windows thanks falke all had that problem you need expand the fonts manually the program decomp disk the equations fonts are disk have fun gel
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	true type atm seen from typographically point view atm using postscript fonts better than truetype the hinting mechanism incorporated gorgeous multilingual users may see the limit possible different characters font problematically they may have better use the unicode features fonts windows seen lots really beautiful and printable small size fonts haven seen those fonts most them are rendering quite inaccurate small sizes esp screen fonts simply compare timesnewroman font with the font the first looks better hoping that there will atm claudius mokler mail mokler desert berlin
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	where find diamond speedstar drivers the subject says nearly everything talking about the accellerator card note the not about the product without please mail the address appropriate ftp server thanx claudius mokler mail mokler desert berlin
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	control systems analysis package cosy pak updated for mathematica announcing cosy pak symbolic control systems analysis package version user fee release for mathematica version higher introduction cosy pak set packages and notebooks for classical control and some modern state space control analysis and design methods the notebooks cosy pak follow typical control engineering course taught many universities around the world for the junior senior level undergraduates there fee use cosy pak but certain responsibilities are expected the user see copyright notice the readme file included below for starters mail fax mail post the registration form included the readme file cosy pak available via anonymous ftp from mishna esys cwru edu internet the pub directory typical ftp session unix given after the readme file future releases you would like receive updates and newer versions cosy pak please send mail fax mail the address below addition your comments and suggestions are appreciated and are invaluable will our best fix any reported bugs however cannot fix those bugs that have not been reported and those not know would very much appreciate you taking few minutes communicate via mail mail telephone fax this will help release bug free versions the future comments are welcome sreenath systems engineering department case school engineering case western reserve university mail sree mishna cwru edu mail prof sreenath tel systems engg crawford hall fax case western reserve univ cleveland begin readme file user fee release cosy pak symbolic control systems analysis package version for mathematica version higher chen sreenath systems engineering case school engineering case western reserve university cleveland mail sree mishna cwru edu copyright copyright copyright chen and sreenath case western reserve university permission use copy modify and distribute this software and its documentation for any purpose and without fee hereby granted provided that the above copyright notice appear supporting documentation and the name the case western reserve university case school engineering not used advertising publicity pertaining distribution the software without specific without prior permission case western reserve university makes representations about the suitability this software for any purpose provided with out express implied warranty acknowledgements support from cwru information and network services ray neff case alumni association the lilly foundation and the systems engineering department case western reserve university gratefully acknowledged special thanks brian evans georgia tech for all the help ftp cosy pak available anonymous ftp from mishna esys cwru edu internet sample ftp session given the end this file changes version update from this version have revised cosy pak take advantage the more robust signal processing functions available mathematica since mathematica provides better and working laplacetransform and inverselaplacetransform functions than mathematica did adopted them this has made cosy pak smaller thus brian evans signal processing packages that supported the laplacetransform and inverselaplacetransform functions the cosy pak are longer needed directly cosy pak for power users who use signal processing still recommend the use the very fine brian evans package signal processing available the anonymous ftp site gauss eedsp gatech edu the downside the disadvantage this update can that mathematica requires more runtime resources than its previous version for mathematica users have included the laplacetransform package from mathematica the directory for please move all files and directory under for into the calculus directory under mathematica packages directory introduction this unsupported release cosy pak control systems analysis package for symbolic control systems analysis using mathematica classical control systems analysis and design methods and some modern control systems methods have been implemented this package this package and the attendant notebooks were developed next computer unix based workstation they have been used supplementary teaching aid along with standard control engineering texts ogata phillips and harbor for undergraduate courses control engineering taught the systems engineering department cwru addition the next they have also been tested successfully apple macintosh computers and ibm running windows would very much interested hear from you you anybody you know uses this software platforms not mentioned above ibm users however will have evaluate the notebooks first visualize the graphics once installed see below for instructions this collection mathematica packages can loaded any user bundled with the packages are many notebooks cosy notes which demonstrate the functionality these packages the notebooks follow plan many fine standard undergraduate control engineering text books listed the references examples used these notebooks have been collected from the various references given the end this file the contents the notebooks the cosy notes directory are given below begin cosy notes contents notebook file name introduction chapter introduction control systems sections analyticity poles and zeros signals forward laplace transforms inverse laplace transforms differential equation with zero valued initial conditions differential equation with initial conditions notebook file name math models chapter mathematical modeling dynamic systems sections ode state space linearization nonlinear system equations state space transfer function notebook file name transient response chapter transient response analysis chapter split into three sub notebooks because file size notebook file name transient response sections time response analysis first order system second order system third order and higher order systems notebook file name transient response sections first order system step response time const notebook file name transient response sections second order system step response damping ratio notebook file name steady state response chapter steady state response sections routh stability steady state error analysis notebook file name root locus chapter root locus analysis notebook file name freq response chapter frequency response analysis sections bode plot analysis magnitude phase plot nichols plot polar plot nyquist plot combined example notebook file name state space chapter state space methods sections introduction state transition matrix controllability observability output controllability pole placement design observer design time response using state space methods end notebook contents compressed files the files that contain complete set the cosy pak packages and notebooks for mathematica are cosy pak tar compressed tar file for unix systems cosy pak sit hqx compressed sit file for macintosh systems and encoded binhex format requires the shareware stuffit file higher cosy pak ibm zip zip file for the ibm running dos once expanded the mathematica files can also used macintosh ibm unix systems also installation cosy pak unix command line type the following command zcat cosy pak tar tar xvf macintosh open the sit hqx file using the shareware stuffit higher ibm command line type the following command pkunzip cosy pak ibm zip note this zip file was zipped zip utility you must use pkunzip version higher unzip ibm may limit the directory name characters eight that event type pkunzip cosy pak zip you can also unzip the cosy pak ibm zip file any unix machine you have unzip utility uncompressing and untarring cosy pak tar unzipping cosy pak ibm zip will create directory called cosy pak once the files are expanded you should see single directory cosy pak containing the following three files four sub directories and their contents sub directories cosy pak cosypak contains control tool box packages manual cosy pak manual rtf txt and formats cosy notes contains notebooks for contains laplace transform package from mathematica for mathematica users files directory cosypak chap chap chap chap chap chap chap files directory cosy notes introduction math model transient response transient response transient response steady state response root locus freq response state space files directory for laplacetransform diracdelta sub directories cosy pak common files directory common support important the notebook example files files will under the cosy notes directory use the notebooks move the directory cosypak directory that mathematica can recognize locallibrary mathematica packages unix machine harddisk mathematica packages apple macintosh winmath packages ibm the beginning the initialization cell each notebook cosy notes directory list the example about how make mathematica identify the directory initialization path example for unix machine default path join path locallibrary mathematica packages example for apple macintosh path join path harddisk mathematica packages example for ibm path join path winmath packages change the pathname according your machine removing the mathematica comment sign and before and after path setting this command makes mathematica recognize the directory locallibrary mathematica packages unix machine harddisk mathematica packages apple macintosh winmath packages ibm mathematica users include the laplacetransform package from mathematica the directory for please move all files and directory under for into the calculus directory under mathematica packages directory getting started after installation start mathematica and open the notebooks the cosy notes directory all notebooks load their own packages navigate the notebooks and enjoy ibm users however will have evaluate the notebooks visualize the graphics user responsibilities request you take few minutes and fill out the information below and mail mail fax mail this will help keep your abreast the improvements and release new versions cosy pak suggestions for improvements are welcome cut here your name organization title mail postal address comments suggestions cut here mail this information mail fax mail internet sree mishna cwru edu mail prof sreenath tel systems engg crawford hall fax case western reserve univ cleveland report bugs please report bugs and leave comments the address above any suggestion for improvements and criticism are welcome will our best fix any reported bugs however cannot fix those bugs that have not been reported and those not know would very much appreciate you taking few minutes communicate via mail mail telephone fax this will help release bug free versions the future disclaimer and future releases this software the property the case western reserve university use this software your own risk make express implied warranty the packages and the notebooks can also made run under mathematica versions lower with modification not guarantee the outcome documentation cosy pak functions are indexed the files the manual directory according the chapters usage illustrated notebooks residing cosy notes directory your computer does not support notebooks find macintosh computer and acquire mathreader which public domain notebook reader mathreader will least allow you peruse notebooks but you will not able evaluate any code fragments references dorf modern control systems sixth edition addison wesley new york fortmann and hitz introduction linear control systems marcel dekker franklin powell and emami naeini feedback control dynamic systems second edition addison wesley new york kuo automatic control systems sixth edition prentice hall new jersey ogata modern control engineering second edition prentice hall new jersey phillips and harbor feedback control systems second edition prentice hall new jersey end readme file typical ftp session ftp mishna esys cwru edu connected mishna mishna ftp server version next sun nov ready name mishna esys cwru edu sree anonymous password ftp pub ftp binary ftp port command successful opening ascii mode data connection for file list cosy pak tar cosy pak ibm zip index readme places wmd cosy pak untar transfer complete bytes received seconds kbytes ftp get cosy pak tar port command successful opening binary mode data connection for cosy pak tar bytes transfer complete local cosy pak tar remote cosy pak tar bytes received seconds kbytes ftp quit goodbye
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows video driver got old super vga card manufactured sampo taiwan and looking for windows driver for based the cirrus logic chip contacted the suppliers here new zealand and they say that only windows divers were ever written the manufacturer there driver out for this chip set like know preferably mail rjwjames waikato thanks advance ross james
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	text editor handle large files the title says does anyone know text editor like notepad that can handle large text files thanx for any and all help james burke reading this you agree not hold the writer responsible for any evil jburke abacus bates edu happening that may befall you any time
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article slalp tamsun tamu edu jeffw tamu edu jeffrey waller writes article may microsoft com jenk microsoft com jen kilmer writes article uceng edu bferrell ant occ edu brett ferrell writes article may microsoft com cliffga microsoft com clifford garrett writes guess thats why there are many new dos and applications coming and hardly any windows apps coming out irony yep the apps are comming the apps are comming yet another micro minion hoping that says something long enough hey remember the good old days running alpha with brief excel word and couple internal apps product support database client based email front end life was good but was also impractical cause the masses were using windows and job was help the masses apparently you prefer windows least did windows yes you last comment you mean that your knowledge dated must argue definitely dated used alpha when msft was developing suspect that the masses were using windows because they couldn afford use can you say much for preferred windows because was more stable faster than but could still run more apps than again made this choice before was released but getting back the original question you have any data the relative avaliablity windows applications versus applications any evidence that stated support will dropped any the above seen such data grow other companies are supporting make points please you see life terms debating points think you need grow yes remember the days when kids would engage orderly debate but our parents would usually find out and force act the more mature manner heaping invective and casting rocks and dirt clods hee hee good one doesn help microsoft have employees assume you are due the org may wrong saying such trivial things the net microsoft employs over employees walking into this place not like walking into the commercial there are individuals here you think they all talk the same way say the same thing and help microsoft all the time why appears that voicing his frustration attitude has encountered before and one that encountered well the other hand have had such experience other than from reading this thread you microsoft are unique position present facts hmm are you sure speaking from own experience user certainly people say the marketing group would unique position present the results say research upcoming and apps windows and dos apps part point was that just cause one works microsoft does not mean one has access such data exists but prefer make baseless claims attack poster must make the same conclusion will confess times attacking the poster usenet accounts are not restricted the marketroids they open any fulltimer and are primarily for recreational purposes yeah some are likely answer question hop into debate make stupid comments you know like human beings sorry this newsgroup only for opressed hackers and stranded extraterrestrials not humans how about alt microsoft humans you seem discount others anyway again point was that not all microsofties are here sell readers our products which would conflict with the ads philosophy usenet nor necessarily have access info that others have also get tired people assuming that microsofties are like members the borg jen include stdisclaimer jenk microsoft com msdos testing
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may infodev cam tjrc cus cam cutts writes even point still stands extent that limits appear all over the place where they really are not necessary such the edit control limit while the limit may not necessary limitation they probably fall within the category reasonable limitations you find yourself trying allocate edit control for more than text probably time take good look your program design why there such small limit the number global memory handles allowed what way small number seems that you hit the wall many other ways before you hit the systemwide limit global handles unless course you abusing globalalloc and please don try tell that impossible abuse the resources available under other operating systems all systems have limits the question whether not the limits are reasonable far you haven offered single argument which suggests that windows limits are any less reasonable than limits other systems rick schaut uucp uunet beaver microsoft richs microsoft doesn speak for and don speak for microsoft
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	using mouse dos window there way use the mouse when running dos app windowed win when you window dos apps enhanced mode can see where the mouse cursor was but doesn work any help would greatly appreciated thank you hansang bae hbae cwis unomaha edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	driver for chips technologies video board needed would like find windows driver for video board that based the chips technologies chipset the actual board scorpion framegrabber made univision based the chipset but only barely supports the graphics mode hoping that any driver could used the mode thanks stephen corbesero systems manager and adjucnt lecturer memorial drive west corbesero eecs lehigh edu eecs dept lehigh university sgc lehigh edu bethlehem voice fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	any utility that let you remap the keyboard under win any utility that let you remap the keyboard under win thanks for any pointer
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article twalls ncc demon twalls ncc demon tim walls writes from twalls ncc demon tim walls subject challenge microsoft supporters date mon may article may vax clarku edu rmohns vax clarku edu writes but don want have run blasted windows every time want delete tree absolutely ludicrous load hog like that just delete some files would like requiring crane change the tyre car you don and never had that what enhanced shells are for remember dos and ndos mean come you can expect dos cover everything from microsoft has other projects work they want you move windows then later win and eventually cairo this way they give you reason deliberately crippling the product surely hold guess you right that certainly stinks microsoft marketing techniques don think they deliberately crippled the project the other hand technical achievement for what does considering that rides top dos mean you get gui with reasonable speed with xwindows running top linux something similar you still gonna need fast processor dos death well amen that but wish were damn sight deader for dead product its used awful lot and suspect its going carry twitching for long while yet which isn doing anyone any good except for the people who use dos programs which means about more the business world mike
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters jenk microsoft com jen kilmer writes much deleted for brevity again point was that not all microsofties are here sell readers our products which would conflict with the ads philosophy usenet nor necessarily have access info that others have certainly smacks that remember the poll that you quoted saying that you had seen users being satisfied with dos care recall how unbiased the sample set was that post sure looked like fud and coming from microsoftie well sure seemed like something was not level advocacy good but spreading fud advocate your favorite very unethical especially when you have vested interest the success that also get tired people assuming that microsofties are like members the borg that because their actions seem invite this opinion never seen more defensive people life moreover many their posts seem encourage this too imho seriously speaking shame that techie employees get the heat for actions most which are perpetrated the management and marketing sure that they are very talented etc have not doubts about their abilities just about the ethics their marketing practices divya divya live long and then die slow and horrible death what confucius wanted say
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article uceng edu bferrell moth occ edu brett ferrell writes article may microsoft com jimfr microsoft com jim francis writes know for fact that the only reason many companies wrote apps was because ibm paid them for write app for the paid advance ibm can only pay many people for many apps once that stops does the development software companies don stay business writing apps that won generate revenue the fact that ibm was paying them for allowed them and stay business how many apps are selling ask wordperfect borland lotus how much revenue they are getting from sales and they plan writing more apps you may suprised the answer won would get into microsoft practices but the thread would for every you have interesting point that won dispute now but pray tell you know for fact anything why don you provided some insight into your source you think that will accept for fact maybe would you gave your word even says knows for fact what more you have gain gives his word you think lying right now but mon would appear that you are employed the competition you should expect asked about your sources and just give them front not make the claim brett sherron ferrell email bferrell uceng edu anyway how about this give you word without naming sources that ibm paid companies write applications for satisfied mike
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	problem wallpaper display corrupt for bitmaps have problem with the wallpaper desktop mode for bitmap files bigger than about slightly less sometimes depending the exact dimensions the wallpaper display badly corrupted the rest the desktop fine for wallpaper bitmaps smaller than this have problem have friend who has bitmap which has problems with possible also possible display these bitmaps using cshow mode with problem the video card not fault how can remedy this system ram dos windows oak video card mode using supplied drivers windows has permanent swap file please reply via mail and use the address sig our post software always seems mangle the address the header thanks mazz richard mazzaferri student uni newcastle mazz faceng newcastle edu australia
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters much munching and editing get the point brett sherron ferrell writes you have interesting point that won dispute now but pray tell you know for fact anything why don you provided some insight into your source you think that will accept for fact maybe would you gave your word even mike timbol responds says knows for fact what more you have gain gives his word you think lying right now while not think lying also feel hesitant take anybody their word unless they can attribute source for thier claims with all the fud and misinformations and misconceptions and outright lies flying around the advocacy newsgroups not trust any unsubstantiated rumor claim especially from any employees ibm microsoft anyone who seems have vested interest divya divya live long and then die slow and horrible death what confucius wanted say
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	workgroups for windows hello want little network for users all users want run windows the most important things want for the network are file sharing mail utility two printers one the computers and fax modem card one the computers all want use each others harddisk idea was buy three computers one and two all three have local harddisk the also has very large harddisk all three also have network card the connected the printers and contains the fax modem card and last but not least workgroups for windows questions this possible what exactly are the possibilities and advantages workgroups for windows will all the computers fast enough behind all three someone working thanks martijn
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	wrk installation oddity last night tried reinstall the utilities from the windows resource kit disk the setup program appeared run perfectly normally but when had finished there was program group created now know done this before successfully and creating group myself didn exactly tax but curious what might going can only assume that something left over from the last time had installed getting the way but can figure out what any clues anyone david eastwood sybase inc emeryville eastwood sybase com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	bit rgb working with bit rgb bmp files and need comvert these and bit images how convert bit images and bit rgb images thanks
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how can change the font and size for the system the mode the font sizes window menu help window are very small can change the font and font size for these windows computer the video card ati could some experts please email the answer grzheng vax concondia thanks advance guo rong zhehg concordia univ montreal canada
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	driver for card dear netters friend have brought card with ram there any new driver for the card available ftp cites what the newest version she very interest have driver for with hicolor and true color such driver come with the card mok mok mail hkuxa hku dept chem university hong kong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	can talk windows for workgroups like get system running talking network pcs running windows for workgroups acting server would wonderful but client access would enough can run wfw net utilities dos box there way actually get talk wfw will lanman clients talk wfw dazed and confused tom haapanen tomh metrics com software metrics inc waterloo ont stick your index fingers into both corners your mouth now pull that how the corrado makes you feel car january
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	can talk windows for workgroups tomh metrics com tom haapanen writes can run wfw net utilities dos box there way actually get talk wfw will lanman clients talk wfw following own article found that several people say that lan server clients can talk wfw this then also true for lan manager don lan server and lan manager share common roots dazed and confused somewhat less now tom haapanen tomh metrics com software metrics inc waterloo ont stick your index fingers into both corners your mouth now pull that how the corrado makes you feel car january
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mouse newer hello need microsoft mouse driver but newer for going dos window under windows but must freeware have version mike
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	good autoexec bat and config sys for windows may datamark thomas datamark thomas beagle writes there need load emm qemm anything else many windows pcs only useful you are still stuck with running msdos based applications that need lots low memory free otherwise you just need load himem sys and let windows straight the extended memory that what thought that why never used emm exe before kirk membry our age the age industry rutgers viamar kmembry alexander rodchenko
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters bjgrier bnr brian grier writes this has gone too long people get life you haven converted anyone your way thinking yet you probably will not convert anyone just let this subject die quiet though painfull death this keeps start believing the self righteousness should capital offense you have kill off half the net maybe that isn such bad idea pete gontier technology gurgle netcom com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	remapping procomm windows one can only remap special command keys procomm seems would like remap other keys too especially altgr and such combinations anybody know plain dirty way this cause most people settle for remapping function keys but don see why there should limitation yours mattias
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	teacher for windows are searching for one two instructors for tutorials advanced windows programming under anyone has attended course that was very good would really appreciate recommendations please email directly paller fedunix org don get see these newsgroups often enough thanks advance for any help alan paller tutorials director
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	where find diamond speedstar drivers cica indiana edu drivers the current version
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	there version unix editor for windoews pete holsberg pjh mccc edu wrote subject line says all looked and looked but came empty handed are you pervert you are pervert not cua but has powerful set commands one for all has separate clipboard and not only one ofor all kind data like windows does the only problem know the commands the keyboard shortcut quite fast with the keyboard and usually use all fingers digit when use editor not want leave the keyboard and use the mouse every time need special function the menu use the arrow keys that are away from the usual position hands the keyboard situation very powerful and searching editor for windows bye sorry for the bad english
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	creating batch file from windows sasswb sasswb unx sas com scott bass writes for windows there alternative the archane fairly useless dos batch programming language for ibm introduced the rexx language alternative bat surely windows should the same thing right lieu the above there any way escape the bat file and continue single command across multiple lines have application which exits the system and submits batch file the batch file created the fly from site specific code stored within the application currently designed the line length for the stored code and the output file bat file characters which not enough for all the options that must specified particular command would help tremendously didn have redesign code kludge around the lack true batch shell programming language rest deleted followup post let add that not really windows windows user please excuse ignorance however developer sas institute and one component the application that support the ability submit sas batch job from within interactive sas session the user site can enter their site specific batch profile into dataset within our product specifying the pathname the sas executable specifying site specific sas options etc run time certain variables are resolved and the resolved file written external ascii file then exit the operating system and run the job asynchronously returning the interactive session soon the job submitted the batch job then runs concurrently with the interactive session currently designed the internal dataset has record length characters but run the batch job the command reinvoke sas batch mode requires more than characters til this has not been problem since every job control shell language til mvs cms vms unix had way escape the and enter single command across multiple lines via their rexx language which standard with the gist all this since this application for end users not within company have try develop this process using native since first posting learned that there are several third party companies that provide alternative script languages for windows windows and sure company that licenses our product would use that alternative script language they had but can develop under the assumption that they have anything other than what comes with saw another post this list the subject was something like available for windows which someone said that make awk and ksh was available with microsoft toolkit what that product separate product part windows ksh would what need could count all sites one last question heard that has remote processing capabilities could shove this batch job off server machine and have run there these are native commands rather than network specific commands this would also help improve this process you can comment these commands would appreciate thanks again for the help scott bass sas institute inc integrated systems sas campus drive cary sasswb unx sas com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	deriving from class object with owl trying define own class derived from the object class that may insert them into hashtable class provided the container class library have defined all the pure virtual functions object but still get error when attempt allocate hashentry object cannot create instance abstract class hashentry has anyone derived from class object before what have left out here are the virtual functions that defined from object virtual classtype isa const return hashentryclass virtual pchar nameof const return hashentry virtual hashvaluetype hashvalue const return hashvalue hwindow note hwindow defined hashentry virtual int isequal const object far obj const return this hashentry obj virtual void printon rostream const hwindow void far hwindow bowden wise computer science dept rensselaer polytechnic inst troy internet wiseb rpi edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	questions about dos external join command setting dos unix box ide and scsi drive and was wondering about the use the dos join command like the way sets things since won have stick with the crap that dos enforces like how would mimic mount points unix filesystems have heard that there were problems with using least under older versions dos please tell leopard hyperion com don work for hyperion just live here steeven vawter telephone svawter raynet com work unix sys admin
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	deriving from class object with owl solved problem still not understand why happens ths way perhaps some you gurus can explain this all for some reason when define the following functins the class definition the file the compiler thinks some pure virtual functions are not defined when placed these two separate source file and compiled them the problem went away any ideas what happen are the functions that are defined the class construct all inline this the problem virtual int isequal const object far obj const return this hashentry obj virtual void printon rostream const hwindow void far hwindow bowden wise computer science dept rensselaer polytechnic inst troy internet wiseb rpi edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	deltapoints animated desktop hiyas all upon getting animated desktop for windows gift from boyfriend couldn wait install had gotten advertisement for and put aside with list wants after installing the software didn load part the software would load even though the install went seemingly well called deltapoint with the problem and after asking twenty million different questions about system concluded that had one the systems that the software was incompatible with course they willing give back what waste time and energy the folks their support line although nice are extremely ignorant regarding the workings windows after experience with the installation the learned some the function windows dll files before sending back desktop animator decided some fooling around with the different versions dll files had had versions cpalette dll one dated and the other dated and smaller the smaller version was the one supplied with desktop animator moved the bigger older version cpalette dll directory outside path for some reason had the older cpalette dll windows directory and the newer cpallette windows system directory when did this the animator editor loaded and did other the applications the package the main application still didn load does anyone have any ideas why this would occur any further suggestions for trouble shooting darla portal darla shell portal com darla cup portal com aol kuby aol com darlaiam aol com wix darla genie kuby
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	strange messages when starting windows recently acquired gateway machine when starting windows three copyright statements flash the screen right after the logo disappears and before programmanager takes over this does not happen any other our machines and wondering whether this feature whether this related several problems are having with the machine the system gateway machine the messages that appear are copyright western digital corporation all rights reserved copyright congruent corporation all rights reserved copyright microsoft corporation all rights reserved the autoexec bat file looks like this echo off prompt set mouse msmouse msmouse mouse path dos windows apps system winapps public set temp windows temp winpkt ipx netx login login win the config sys file looks like this device windows himem sys dos high umb device windows emm exe noems stacks files buffers shell dos command com does anyone know what going any help would much appreciated department urban and regional planning mail varkki uiuc edu university illinois urbana champaign tel
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article timbolc netcom com timbol netcom com mike timbol writes anyway how about this give you word without naming sources that ibm paid companies write applications for satisfied mike doesn the same subsidize app development seem remember someone rpi who received entire expensive run machine develop for free and that just the small fry ted
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	deskjet try using laser printer copier paper works quite well and cheaper than hpspecial paper thomas smith youngstown state university chemistry dept yfn ysu edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article sundaram msuinfo sundaram egr msu edu wrote jenk microsoft com jen kilmer writes much deleted for brevity again point was that not all microsofties are here sell readers our products which would conflict with the ads philosophy usenet nor necessarily have access info that others have certainly smacks that remember the poll that you quoted saying that you had seen users being satisfied with dos care recall how unbiased the sample set was that post sure looked like fud and coming from microsoftie well sure seemed like something was not level came from reseller survey advocacy good but spreading fud advocate your favorite very unethical especially when you have vested interest the success that don recall any fud here maybe example also get tired people assuming that microsofties are like members the borg that because their actions seem invite this opinion never seen more defensive people life moreover many their posts seem encourage this too imho for the most part this newsgroup attack oriented microsoft has been attacked anything ranging from the quality our products the intelligence our people the integrity our business etc anyone would get defensive when being baselessly attacked are human beings well you should expect response when claim that employee might feel unwarranted leveled seriously speaking shame that techie employees get the heat for actions most which are perpetrated the management and marketing sure that they are very talented etc have not doubts about their abilities just about the ethics their marketing practices divya divya live long and then die slow and horrible death what confucius wanted say
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	displaying stream output window using owl and want display the output from stream popup window there way perhaps redirect cout window alternatively set separate stream that supports output and able display the stream output tedit control anyone ever done something like this bowden wise computer science dept rensselaer polytechnic inst troy internet wiseb rpi edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article dnp news claremont edu tlilley jarthur claremont edu ted writes article timbolc netcom com timbol netcom com mike timbol writes anyway how about this give you word without naming sources that ibm paid companies write applications for satisfied not really query what you mean paid are you implying that helped offset development costs paid for the entire cost producing the product mean they paid the companies that developed the applications give you million dollars you port application suppose the company question could use the million dollars for whatever they want would you like post figures for well suppose ted rather not first all don have exact figures and don want disclose how know this however will say that jim francis from microsoft just posted figure million payment from ibm borland and that somewhere the range that heard mike
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article sundaram msuinfo sundaram egr msu edu divya sundaram writes jenk microsoft com jen kilmer writes much deleted for brevity again point was that not all microsofties are here sell readers our products which would conflict with the ads philosophy usenet nor necessarily have access info that others have certainly smacks that remember the poll that you quoted saying that you had seen users being satisfied with dos was and actually another msdos team member posted note that people not the msdos team would not necessarily know about that care recall how unbiased the sample set was when heard those numbers wondered how they got them having worked product support and knowing that the typical support caller has very little positive say about the product figured wasn from there wandered over the marketing folks and asked and was told was from survey registered users and posted that the net when people asked where the figure came from that post sure looked like fud and coming from microsoftie well sure seemed like something was not level hmm figured chuck posted the numbers why not include where they came from also find interesting that postitive info fear uncertainty doubt advocacy good but spreading fud advocate your favorite very unethical especially when you have vested interest the success that think you got confused with someone else don pretend that msdos provides what all people need that other oses including unix don provide useful and necessary features also don push people use msdos even posted comp msdos misc that suggest waiting before installing new esp you have trouble support always overloaded during release unless the sales are total bomb also get tired people assuming that microsofties are like members the borg that because their actions seem invite this opinion never seen more defensive people life ain saying some don get defensive sometimes you really think msdos gets any more respect within microsoft than outside just mean all aren cut out the same dough with the same cookie cutter don all think alike yeah chuckst and have some inside info msdos doesn mean that everyone else does seriously speaking shame that techie employees get the heat for actions most which are perpetrated the management and marketing sure that they are very talented etc have not doubts about their abilities just about the ethics their marketing practices jen include stdisclaimer jenk microsoft com msdos testing
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may microsoft com kenk microsoft com ken kiesow writes article sundaram msuinfo sundaram egr msu edu wrote certainly smacks that remember the poll that you quoted saying that you had seen users being satisfied with dos care recall how unbiased the sample set was that post sure looked like fud and coming from microsoftie well sure seemed like something was not level came from reseller survey had posted that came from survey registered users double checked with friendly neighborhood marketing type and found there were actually two surveys one randomly selected resellers one randomly selected users from the upgrade registered user database both surveys showed positive rating jen include stdisclaimer jenk microsoft com msdos testing
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	hot key for screen saver there hot key for the windows screen saver utility not there easy way create one the reason that need one that dad company anal retentive about leaving computer while the information can accessed the employees are not allowed walk away from the computer until the screen saver kicks that terribly secure also the system manager won let any software added another program such lock zip from cica different screen saver out thanks for any and all help chris putnam still blue devils lover heart euphonium baritone star
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters previous article jenk microsoft com jen kilmer wrote had posted that came from survey registered users double checked with friendly neighborhood marketing type and found there were actually two surveys one randomly selected resellers one randomly selected users from the upgrade registered user database both surveys showed positive rating jen include stdisclaimer jenk microsoft com msdos testing which translates not satisfied don think the awkward recursive deletion that bugging people certainly isn the nice windows interfaces for new dos accessories cpav defrager undelete far noticed doublespace crashes frankly the fairly high rates doublespace crashes heard surprises figured that since the presumably aware doublespace less likely crash unlike stacker which fools the but gullible anyway dos aware doublespace isn anyway good job dos and dos good for new users just beware the doublespace rob rmohns vax clarku edu rob mohns annoy rush limbaugh think for yourself
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help hello all understanding that all true type fonts windows are loaded prior starting windows this makes getting into windows quite slow you have hundreds them first off correct this thinking secondly that the case can you get windows ignore them boot and maybe make something like pif file load them only when you enter the applications that need fonts any ideas chris origin chris doelle fidonet org
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters for the most part this newsgroup attack oriented microsoft has been attacked anything ranging from the quality our products the intelligence our people the integrity our business etc anyone would get defensive when being baselessly attacked are human beings well you should expect response when claim that employee might feel unwarranted leveled ignore the attacks and look the sales numbers and the stock price you need some gratification just keep doing the great job you have done the past thx dave
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	suggestions for winforwg com redirection needed help trying find software that will allow com port redirection under windows for workgroups can anyone out there make suggestion reccommend something would really hate have write some driver for the serial port that would support the network but that next step thanks advance bkv
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mouse systems driver for mouse control dos window does anyone know there such animal have mouse systems trackball and would like driver for this device that would allow use the mouse within dos window the same way microsoft mouse driver works thanks chris chris shenefiel who does not represent his company any way shape form this forum nor his opinions comments represent the opinions his company nor his opinions comments even merit consideration any kind
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how prevent ctl alt del from windows would like prevent our windows users from using ctl alt del from within windows know there must way could anyone point the right direction thanks advance mike glynn mike glynn business gatech edu mike glynn stolen sig follows hot rodder someone who completely internet prism gatech edu baffled people who are not into cars
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters mike dahmus mike schleppo bocaraton ibm com wrote yes lot what has common with was written you guys however many the things that made much more successful win workplace shell than previous versions were ibm work win ibm work you make laugh writing couple thousands lines code make windows compatible with your dpmi implementation does not make the rest windows ibm work serge
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters bferrell cicada occ edu brett ferrell writes article may microsoft com jenk microsoft com jen kilm writes found there were actually two surveys one randomly selected resellers one randomly selected users from the upgrade registered user database both surveys showed positive rating jen power and associates did the survey would like anonymous ftp site pick only sucker believes released survey results about product assume that the results the survey whatever they are are honest the results indicated extreme dissatisfaction with the product going tell stop buying dos because sux sure would not fair say that the relatively few people who have decided purchase would inclined like just those who love most the people who but them know more less what expect and are not disappointed mean nice know that the people who bought are happy and important for know and don dispute the accuracy just would hate see people extrapolate from that population that dos the next computer revolution well these statistics are shut people and add some microscopic weight arguments just said you have seen what automakers who going believe chrysler they tell random chrysler conducted survey theory about certain people that they are convinced that point maintained long enough true after all what the focus this company information money and information technology for some expedient toward these ends why did bill gates drop out college was because couldn afford the time was because the wsj says couldn wait use what knew out and make money bill gate answer this question would highly interesting await can stomach bill declaring himself visionary and using every available opportunity build the cult around himself and then having sell dos and windoze their main stays kenton cmu edu fixes broken windows
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters mfischer ucsd edu mike fischer writes you missing the main point capitalism the first place competition breeds excellence yes where commodities are concerned imagining that capitalist theorists had software mind when they wrote their grand treatises the main point capitalism non productive pete gontier technology gurgle netcom com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	disk image question hello recently noticed there directory named diskimage disk didn notice before and wonder while installing application image the disk was created win automatically created backup its files couldn find any documentation the diskimage utility having image the disk taking lot disk space does anybody know this just something the people who installed win did backup mechanism thanks anibal anibal mayorga wenark mayorga cis udel edu newark
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	upgrading windows like appeal the net wizards for bit advice first general description the machine follows motherboard utron mhz opti chipset meg memory cache soon hope drop chip into fahrenheit video meg proaudio spectrum sound board primary disk connor caching ide controller secondary disk conner slave same controller tertiary disk fujitsu meg superstore esdi controller planned future disks include scsi and rom pas scsi port tape drive colorado jumbo the floppy controller future tape drive may dat the scsi interface other hardware includes modem fax serial ports and teletext board ugly dos software drives the latter applications used include normal windows stuff excel word quicken and turbo pascal windows but the important stuff audio work environment which includes turtle beach wave for windows mcs stereo and other misc stuff for dinking around with audio files also use stacker the primary drive newwave for wife use and she won let get rid and product called infinite disk from chili pepper software for hierarchical storage management seldom used offline files plan upgrade when becomes released product was stongly tempted become beta user early but don have time mess around with the hassles beta software expect buy tear off the shrink wrap and use without hassle know unrealistic but can hope can after all have work the advice want concerns the state regarding device drivers and hardware specific stuff general how smoothly can expect the upgrade can expect support for all stuff still need scramble around downloading drivers pas orchid colorado from some bbs etc what steps should take ensure the installation goes smoothly note that want nuke dos totally from the system allergic command lines plan run pure system also will communicate with the workgroups lan what about stacker currently have stacker the first disk drive without stacker and the infinite disk product will have great difficulty fitting everything have the system cramped now realize stacker will incompatible with but will there version will support compression dos know infinite disk will incompatible with but will they offer does anybody else comparable product for and what cost perhaps need ask chili pepper that question can live without have but rather not will run dos apps the teletext board mainly without dos the system what need keep around any feedback advice including forget with good reasons much appreciated only significant reason for moving need better multitasking environment than windows among other reasons wave locks the machine for hours and hours doing dsp processing large audio files and want better lan support than now have internet access etc maybe there are better solutions than and would appreciate hearing about them what status these days pls respond email and there interest summarize for the net thanks nathan gregory psilink com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how prevent ctl alt del from windows article hydra gatech edu prism gatech edu glynn mike writes would like prevent our windows users from using ctl alt del from within windows know there must way could anyone point the right direction thanks advance mike glynn are you sure you want that win app locks for some reason ctrl alt del may the only way kill the app and get back windows granted doesn work all that often but has come handy occasion consider pretty carefully before disabled that keystroke just thought you like talk for hours just ahead now the spin doctors dominic drohan electronic data systems eds email drohand cad gmeds com note the views and opinions expressed herein are mine and not reflect those eds
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article sundaram msuinfo sundaram egr msu edu divya sundaram writes jenk microsoft com jen kilmer writes much deleted for brevity again point was that not all microsofties are here sell readers our products which would conflict with the ads philosophy usenet nor necessarily have access info that others have certainly smacks that remember the poll that you quoted saying that you had seen users being satisfied with dos care recall how unbiased the sample set was that post sure looked like fud and coming from microsoftie well sure seemed like something was not level recall jen said right front how the sample set was derived where the fud advocacy good but spreading fud advocate your favorite very unethical especially when you have vested interest the success that does this mean can flame you ever see you doing face the advocacy groups are for the kind things that you preaching against this why they were created the first place filter out all the crap from the newsgroups that might contain real information phil nothing have posted here any way shape form official microsoft policy opinion and should not represented such when quoted here any other forum philipla microsoft com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why mouse jumpy mouse original post subject why mouse jumpy mouse have microsoft serial mouse and using mouse com was using think but switched see was any better vertical motion nice and smooth but horizontal motion bad sometimes can click something because mouse jumps around can moving the mouse the right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly for bit then jump the right then move smoothly for bit then jump again maybe this time the left about inch this crazy have never had much trouble with mouse before anyone have any solutions aha think found the problem and isn dirt another guy here was using different kind mouse and was using video driver the default vga for windows has localbus card like and when loaded the video driver windows for him his mouse became jumpy too seems like the driver there any newer one than version that would solve this problem really bad have use the keyboard instead sometimes the zip cica version which the same version that came with card sean eckton computer support representative college fine arts and communications hfac brigham young university provo hfac csr byu edu ecktons ucs byu edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	good autoexec bat and config sys for windows article acsu buffalo edu kan mongwa mongwa acsu buffalo edu writes article acsu buffalo edu kan mongwa mongwa acsu buffalo edu writes not load smartdrv sys you are using stacker this applies for windows replied why you mean just use smartdrv exe autoexec bat roger you answered quoting from windows setup txt under the section for using stacker for best performance not use smartdrive cache the compressed drive you only need cache the uncompressed drive check out for yourself think important clear your first reply you gave the impression that you should not use smartdrive with stacker you are correct caching the compressed drive however understand you can cache the uncompressed drive thus you have compressed your disk you will have and probably drive under stacker being the compressed disk which just large file and being the uncompressed disk you should only attempt stack fact with win and smartdrv exe seems smart enough automatically default stacking your and drives roger
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	why does window restart computer files buffers device windows himem sys device windows smartdrv exe double buffer stacks and also autoexec bat vshield windows smartdrv exe rem mouseware setup path dos windows fax mouse set temp windows temp mouse ser rem dos share have you seen this problem before please help out thanks hadi
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how make rle file told that can replace the colorful windows logo that appears windows invokes with graphic choosing the challange that the image must rle format got gif pic jpg tif etc everything but rle what the best route converting these things what program should download and from where has anybody else done this and you have the steps available thanks mail ivory epi syr com ivory tower com would prefered
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	microcal origin working model new version uploaded cica recently uploaded cica the current version the working model microcal origin scientific and technical graphics and data analysis package for windows the working model only and puts promo message hardcopies but largely identical the full version saving origin files disabled but you can save ascii data sets produced with origin also says has expiration date sept try you may like currently pub win uploads origin zip include std disclaimer tom carter carter photon cem msu edu michigan state university carter msucem bitnet chemistry department
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	upgrading windows article psilink com nathan gregory psilink com says like appeal the net wizards for bit advice this sounds like good question the hardware specific him but general please respond him via news and not mail there probably are alot people wanting read the replies including myself mike packard aplcomm jhuapl edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article dil admin mhs unc edu dave laudicina writes ignore the attacks and look the sales numbers and the stock price you need some gratification just keep doing the great job you have done the past thx dave this the part that usually gets while set make money there usually are other things considered and debated that the purpose life you only willing look the stock price and sales numbers for gratification usually you end with japanese whoever that competitive owing your business short sighted imo this very irresponsible narrow minded and selfish henceforth ignoring the attack not the right approach matter fact just happen believe the willingness debate and readjust the greatest assets this society sales number and stock price the short term result not the cause
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	test help question there newsgroup for would like know there seperate newgroup for discussion test quality assurance issues not what newsgroup would the appropriate one use does compuserve microsoft themselves have bbs people can call for help such thanks please email response djw wang com helmet rules what doc djw wang com have plan now and clue
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	eps clip art sale less than mailorder price have three libraries all which cost over two thousand dollars mail order they are all genuine high quality eps vector graphics not just some scans with silly eps wrapper they are totem graphics color eps library about color eps images this costs thousand bucks mailorder rate this clip art high quality much better than dynamic graphics clip art sotmc clip art etc opinion but rate both the library and the library higher totem art all color whereas most the other are the best all color library out there opinion graphics library haven counted how many images but you can purchase the library floppies give you idea the size this costs about hundred bucks mailorder rate this clip art very high quality but only graphics library very popular all the mac mags this costs about hundred bucks mailorder rate this clip art very high quality got some awards one the major mac mags forgot which some the images are color but most are for what worth all three the are saved multiple file formats they are readable mac and additionally totem will mount native next also although the next could just easily mount either the mac filesystems personally tested the all three machines owned all three machines although sold next few months ago also opinion the and libraries are the best the business and seen lots also totem opinion the best all color library around although like color art better want for everything can ship certified check well visa charge you pay visa ship pre paid the continental ship buyer pays freight and fee reason for selling longer have dtp business please respond via email telephone rarely check these news groups nevin email npratt glacier sim com voice
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	multiple printers through print manager article lance lance lancea actrix gen lance lancea actrix gen lance andrewes writes how does print manager deal with multiple printers planning print two printers from application one will real printer and the other fax program will print manager just deal with the jobs one time will feed both printers once please research carefully just because fax modem behaves like printer local machine doesn guarantee functionality when local machine has fax software printing remotely installed fax card tried this with workgroups and the fax software didn like all could have been winfax peculiarisms but don think lot special hardware interaction takes place internally case fax manager program merely intercepts the print job and spools own directory not print manager spool directory software appears the job was printed print manager plays part the handling the actual process pardon incorrectly assumed this what you were truely network aware fax modem will most likely required lot weird setup and tinkering good luck
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	diamond stealth article charm magnus acs ohio state edu vromanel magnus acs ohio state edu vincent romanelli writes recently purchased diamond stealth isa graphics accelerator card based upon positive review steve gibson infoworld although fast find its windows drivers extremely buggy despite implementing all the diamond technical support suggestions does anyone else have any experience with this card any feedback appreciated have had lot problems with belive have the latest drivers for there are some occasions when fire windows works great you ever find newer drivers would appreciate pointer there location paul
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	monitors for windows alwin hoogerdijk alwin zen tudelft wrote julio botelho hlbbs uucp julio botelho writes does anyone know whether not possible have monitors working with microsoft windows have taxan multi vision and nec this may work when using vga and hercules card one system but using two vga cards one system will never work believe that two may used tandem one system this the one exception the vga mono dual monitor combo that have heard about has anybody done this jim james mcnamara member technical staff tasc walkers brook drive reading
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	vbrun dll marion humboldt kent edu lou marion writes can someone point the direction this file thanks lou marion dept geography kent state university marion humboldt kent edu sure sorry this not rec humor try cica pub win get index see where all opinions expressed are own because nobody else wants them jls antares larc nasa gov jon sweet
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	vbrun dll can someone point the direction this file thanks should come with visual basic new version vbrun dll thx dave
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	adding icons progman exe florian piekert floppy link escape wrote out there there anybody who can write how add icons the iconlist which build into progman exe grateful for every clue thanx and have nice day one way use program called iconmaster shareware and you can get mail and post you matthew simpkin kingston university primitive race you too kingston computer science shall asimilated
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	solution multi setups standalone easy peter goudswaard goudswaa fraser sfu wrote setup deleted finally order run your specific version windows you must simply change the path include winmastr and your specific configuration path winwife you could get fancy and use batch files environment variables menuing system this other stuff delete you happen running the new msdos you could use multi setup provide menu with menu choice for each person using the machine power select your name the menu will use your personal sections config sys and autoexec bat thus setting the path then running your windows copy ron temp intel views are own
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters this the part that usually gets while set make money there usually are other things considered and debated that the purpose life like not stock prices and sales particular product are measures success they can measures short term long term success think case they are good measure their long term success the original post mentioned how seems this group that there are large number people attacking and not willing accept anything positive about was trying make point that the attacks are over emphasized and look the sales products they definitely tell different story also think large number the attackers debaters you call them are highly technical look around the real world people don want grep and auck and they just want push the buttons and get their job done reasonably priced piece hardware that does not need computer smart guy load configure etc etc like not and the multitudes business applications that exist run under windows does this and does well are running loaded with complete suite mostly windows applications administrative business function novell network running all software off the server does the job quite well and had over again would pick windows again again repeat keep doing what you are doing you are doing great job flame thx dave
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	bit access have gateway does anyone know csn can duse bit access
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	floorplan layout program article chemical watstar uwaterloo gmills chemical watstar uwaterloo phil trodwell writes desperately seeking preferably shareware program assist the architectural layout house floorplan does something like this exist other than basic cad programs please mail don always get the news before expires thanks advance phil trodwell the best seen visio runs under windows not shareware however gary williamson aka wwilliam polaris orl mmc com orlando florida
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and after hearing endless debate read name calling over which better dos and windows and finally having enought resourses play with couple different operating systems have decided put the two products head head test many fellow newsposters have suggested have however desire whatsoever use version which wont really what says run windows apps will not run windows apps enhansed mode something that most larger windows apps require but which supposed beta test supposed have heard that beta available via ftp and was wondering anyone knew where obtain copy would appreciate any information would like once and for all establish for myself which the best for needs robbie shererrg sfasu edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	odd mouse behavior one coworkers having very odd problem his mouse works fine dos applications you load them from the prompt under windows the mouse pointer present but does not move even you load dos app under windows the mouse doesn work the computer zeos diamond speedstar vga running dos and windows mouse driver microsoft tried switching the mouse from com com tried different mouse reinstalled mouse drv and can get the blamed thing work the only difference between his system and mine where the mouse works perfectly that has expansion card with additional parallel and serial port could that cause the problem thanks advance for any help carl fink carlf panix com fink genie you can laugh yourself then you can bet that everyone else doing johnston
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	hot key for screen saver well renaming screensavers scr exe and running them has been pposted haven tried changing win ini but should have same effect shows the setup dialog box butdoesn enable the saver mickey
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	questions about dos external join command article srg spud hyperion com the author writes setting dos unix box ide and scsi drive and was wondering about the use the dos join command like the way sets things since won have stick with the crap that dos enforces like how would mimic mount points unix filesystems have heard that there were problems with using least under older versions dos please tell have been using the join command for many years now mostly with good success duplicating unix style file mounts you will hear lots people cursing join because they confuse with the dos append command truely gnarly hack but don believe them you also will hear people saying that microsoft recommends that you not use join but microsoft windows workgroups resource toolkit the following appears join dos utility works fine with windows for workgroups you not change the state the joined drives during windows for workgroups session this includes adding removing joined drives from within windows for workgroups recommend that you not use join when running windows setup windows for workgroups within this caveat join appears valid under windows however have found couple applications that don deal well with filesystems that have been mounted using join particular the worst offender word for windows gets very confused when you edit and then try save file joined drive wants create the saved file nnnnn tmp the current dir then delete the old file and rename the nnnnn tmp file the doc file unfortunately wfw usually writes the nnnnn tmp file some idiotic place other than the current directory often the root dir the joined filesystem but not always then after deleting the original doc file can find the nnnnn tmp file rename unless you search your disk systems the document gone have also found subtle problems using the mks toolkit from dos box when joined filesystems are present used join temp with meg ramdisk but mks sometimes gets confused when doing the temp dir and misses some files the temp dir this difficult reproduce but goes away totally when join not used think this windows problem rather than mks since works under raw dos would suggest that you can use join but aware that may not robust you would like wouldn real great mount network drives under the main file tree rather than having all those darned drive letters unfortunately join won let you there was talk the net about simple patch let join work network drives but don remember the source too bad the join command not better implemented since would avoid using all those stupid drive letters realize that messdos was meant for casual even ignorant users mounting all the drives one file tree might confusing but looks like going carry this over into windows another meant for casual even igorant users not with all old family system baggage maybe needs recovery group they can get with life jerome jerry schneider domain jls atg com aspen technology group uucp uunet csn atglab jls box collins voice
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	playing midi music ati stereo sound card running windows enhanced mode the sound card have the ati stereo sound card which claims adlib and soundblaster compatibility using windows mediaplayer can play the midi files that came with sound card however can play any the midi files that belong the winjammer midi editor that ftp from cica also can play any midi files generate with muzika also from cica when try play the files dialog box pops saying that the music may not play right and has checkbox asking wish disable this message the future this normal have something set wrong would really like able write music muzika and have computer play also ftp the game dare dream for windows from cica and its music won play either get the same dialog box the midi mappers that have are ati ext midi ati opl midi and vanilla have tried using all three any help suggestions shoulders cry etc would appreciated very much john john punshon punshon usask
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	hot key for switching the program manager win one may assign hot keys for the program items within the program manager how about the program manager itself there one already there some way assign one regards ake ake knutsson email knut tts lth dept communication systems uunet tts lth knut lund institute technology sweden fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may klaava helsinki jliukkon klaava helsinki juha matti liukkonen writes let pose question how many dos users are out there who have access the net but would probably find this feature useful too your suggestion implies that microsoft relying the shareware products fill the gaps dos did misunderstand your statement shareware available from the net magazines distributors clubs friends and bulletin boards don think people have any problems getting hold fill gaps dos there need for many people dos provides more services than need just run windows top btw windows must operating system provides disk operating system that dos can access nfs thomas beagle thomas datamark work technical writer thomas cavebbs welly gen home wellington long ears make good handles
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters lots stuff deleted because felt like this bashing has definitely lost all its humor value think most the people posting are forgetting that most users products not even know about internet and unix that very unfriendly place where bizzare abreviations replace the rather comfortable abreviations they know and the abreviations have subtle differences between the different vendors while users tend customize any windowing setup they can not much with their command line most the computer users the world product symbolize quality has made their life easier and more productive and them that quality they not care about what innovative things has done other than make their life with computer one heck lot easier you may know better than most computer users this world but that will not change their perception face until unix come with decent gui that available all variations unix just will not catch with the mainstream computer users here the net are not mainstream computer users brian disclaimer the opinions expressed are mine not those bnr brian user developer wanted computer play games bell northern research buy amiga however have research triangle park real work please get lost
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	winfax files ascii format zhao may sparta nmsu edu zhao nmsu edu zhao writes currently are using winfax software receive send fax our pcs works pretty well the problem that all received files are bit map format which take lots space have been told there some programs that can pattern recognition the raster characters fax files and translate them into ascii code then store the file ascii format would you like tell whether not there such software package such translation there one where can find any such software package public domain what version winfax you have the newest version has ocr optical character recognition built what this means that can take fax letter and convert into ascii that one can edit the document typing however found that the ocr that comes packaged with winfax does not work well omnipage professional also delrina software once again winfax ver has what you are looking for good luck regards zizi
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows communication proagrams article lee seas ucla edu victorf wright seas ucla edu victor friedman writes can anybody tell what exactly windows does the com ports why can run single communication program under windows have procomm quicklink commo neither them respond modem commands after the connection has finally been established although still able manage vick victorf seas ucla edu this one the trickiest problems win personally run telix for dos under windows just fine and been waiting for the win version froever but have admit the exception the rule have tried installing various dos comm progs friends machines most them big problems some the stuff you have lookout for always run the prog thru pif never calling its exe the pif always toggle lock application memory actually this something points out the readme wri file and especially critical for downloading under ctrl panel enh and check for all your com ports alway warn will help debugging this thing and healthier check where are running the mouse from com port check the com port addresses from your bios setup and from ctrl panel ports setup advanced these might help still have problems get and buy procomm win hope helps somehow costas malamas georgia institute technology oit oit doesn pay enough share their opinions internet ccastco prism gatech edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and article may ccsvax sfasu edu shererrg ccsvax sfasu edu writes after hearing endless debate read name calling over which better dos and windows and finally having enought resourses play with couple different operating systems have decided put the two products head head test many fellow newsposters have suggested have however desire whatsoever use version which wont really what says run windows apps will not run windows apps enhansed mode something that most larger windows apps require but which supposed beta test supposed have heard that beta available via ftp and was wondering anyone knew where obtain copy would appreciate any information would like once and for all establish for myself which the best for needs don think the question will run windows apps now more important question will subsequent versions continue run apps from subsequent windows versions the future can keep will future run windows apps ole very complex and the sign things come after this fall believe ibm longer has any rights view microsoft code after that the only way maintain some sort compatibility reverse engineer would you want reverse engineer ole application john grant jagrant emr emr airborne geophysics geological survey canada ottawa
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article igc feenix metronet com jack feenix metronet com jack hudler writes still after the impact all the ito ibm all that left its employee base are the deadbeats suspect see about quarter boy are you going look silly couple weeks brett sherron ferrell email bferrell uceng edu cincy catch the cats college engineering you can
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	microsoft bbs number can anyone tell what microsoft bbs number tried the one that given the dos upgrade manual but that number never answered the call thanks please email
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	solution multi setups standalone easy rhudson gomez intel com ron hudson writes peter goudswaard goudswaa fraser sfu wrote setup deleted finally order run your specific version windows you must simply change the path include winmastr and your specific configuration path winwife you could get fancy and use batch files environment variables menuing system this other stuff delete you happen running the new msdos you could use multi setup provide menu with menu choice for each person using the machine power select your name the menu will use your personal sections config sys and autoexec bat thus setting the path then running your windows copy ron excellent suggestion ron and further comment dos you decide install windows standalone configuration completely more than directory your hard drive and use dos jump specific copy for each user you could saving yourself many megs disk space you use the setup and technique peter goudswaard goudswaa sfu preferred pgoudswa cln etc pgoudswa cue there gift like the present goudswaard observation
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	card problems posted message here some time ago asking why mouse was jumpy well think know why and doesn have anything with the mouse seems the video driver here why think that few weeks ago helped guy install the driver for his video card for windows had been using the normal windows default vga driver don have the same kind mouse mine microsoft serial and his off brand serial mouse his mouse worked fine until installed the driver his system then his mouse became really jumpy too there anything can need high resolution since display lots stuff screen ami pro pegasus mail for windows office sorry nondisclosure and alot more noticed there are drivers ftp cica but they are the same version that already have and they are help already tried sean eckton computer support representative college fine arts and communications hfac brigham young university provo hfac csr byu edu ecktons ucs byu edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	hot key for screen saver article may seas gwu edu louray seas gwu edu michael panayiotakis writes well renaming screensavers scr exe and running them has been pposted haven tried changing win ini but should have same effect shows the setup dialog box butdoesn enable the saver mickey start the renamed saver vid the commandline option frank
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may klaava helsinki jliukkon klaava helsinki juha matti liukkonen writes let pose question how many dos users are out there who have access the net but would probably find this feature useful too your suggestion implies that microsoft relying the shareware products fill the gaps dos did misunderstand your statement called the free enterprize system suggests that those who wish enhance dos sell give away microsoft can everything everyone period
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article uceng edu bferrell cicada occ edu brett ferrell writes article igc feenix metronet com jack feenix metronet com jack hudler writes still after the impact all the ito ibm all that left its employee base are the deadbeats suspect see about quarter boy are you going look silly couple weeks perhaps
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and article may ccsvax sfasu edu shererrg ccsvax sfasu edu writes after hearing endless debate read name calling over which better dos and windows and finally having enought resourses play with couple different operating systems have decided put the two products head head test many fellow newsposters have suggested have however desire whatsoever use version which wont really what says run windows apps will not run windows apps enhansed mode something that most larger windows apps require but which supposed beta test supposed have heard that beta available via ftp and was wondering anyone knew where obtain copy would appreciate any information would like once and for all establish for myself which the best for needs robbie shererrg sfasu edu you wait until may the you will able buy the new since will released comdex that day will run windows apps and windows enh mode you can wait then you can ftp months old beta version from ftp nmsu edu but this version probably lot slower than the final product when you your test please have mind that single tasking system will always faster doing one task the real power lies the multitasking and can really measured stopwatch happy benchmarking hans the whales the atlantic and the people the faroe islands have coexisted perfect harmony for the last years matter what any urban navel contamplator without any real relation the coherence the nature says
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and article may emr emr jagrant emr emr john grant writes don think the question will run windows apps now more important question will subsequent versions continue run apps from subsequent windows versions the future john grant jagrant emr emr airborne geophysics geological survey canada ottawa but the most important question will there any apps don have load windows the future and maybe the question the future will will windows run apps now regards hans the whales the atlantic and the people the faroe islands have coexisted perfect harmony for the last years matter what any urban navel contamplator without any real relation the coherence the nature says
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and really think you are comparing apples and oranges nobody disputes that has more big features the question does individual need the power the sales windows answer that question the next question even did want run and had this big monster machine run there diverse set applications run that allow productviely work your local computer store answer this one think the comparison you need doing this where the new battle lines will drawn windows has won the single user war the next one will the client server war and the entries are unix and netware granted these will eventually scaled down attractive the single user and that will probably phase the war who wins only the marketplace will tell but sure fun watching and arguing about tho thx dave
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	memory does anyone know how absolute memory locations windows hardware that memory mapped very high addresses and above please reply email thanks david
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	data segments and memory model usage hello phjm you wrote firstly does windows enhanced mode anything special with dlls that have been compiled using the large memory model are being told that even enhanced mode windows will load dlls into real memory below and page lock second question relates static data inside dlls there any way all get multiple instances the static data segment dgroup but you can allocate real static data within code segments when you need more dynamic memory you can allocate data the global heap you can forget most what was written about memory management under you have paged virtual memory you can lock every block without hampering the memory manager you can use far pointer everytime without always lock unlocking the memory block besides dll are mostly just disguised exe that happen called another task karl karl geitz hauptstr salzgitter kwgeitz link escape tel fax cis bix geitzkwg crosspoint
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may samba oit unc edu dil admin mhs unc edu dave laudicina writes also think large number the attackers debaters you call them are highly technical look around the real world people don want grep and auck and they just want push the buttons and get their you mean grep unix case dependent and awk where did you get auck from mark
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	demonstration creation program wanted article martijn lemmens writes looking for program toolkit with which possible create demonstrations very fast with demonstration mean collection screens the one that looking the demonstration should able make choices pressing buttons change screens hypertext each screen will contain question text bitmap and few answers buttons should possible play music and show animations film heard animator pro and visual basic but don know what these can autodesk animator good tool the one like show partner you want could give copy you did lot advertising with lets you create both graphics any resolution and text frames run all film you can make choices and include music guess that just what you need you really interested email vick victor friedman victorf seas ucla edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows article uupcb hal com scott lynn hal com scott lynn writes well alot graphic design work and remaining loyal dos windows instead macs college isn though and can only scan images macintosh does anyone know program that can read mac disks the apple file exchange the nac that writes dos disks probably leaves visibly older during every session want the transfer windows instead macsee zip ftp cica indiana edu supposed read and write mac disks never tried though good luck callison whale usm edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	better than your there was challenge supporters haven wasted enough bandwidth this silly discussion already please flames let sanity prevail richard maclennan
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows macsee zip ftp cica indiana edu supposed read and write mac disks never tried though good luck just tried but can say that works cause doesn read disks only reads there program that does read disks please let know
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article news rich bnr bjgrier bnr brian grier writes think most the people posting are forgetting that most users products not even know about internet and unix that very unfriendly place where bizzare abreviations replace the rather comfortable abreviations they know and the abreviations have subtle differences between the different vendors while users tend customize any windowing setup they can not much with their command line you can customize command line interface where have you been can change the prompt can make aliases someone like who used say can type dos machine and still get directory listing and under unix don like the command line interface throw out and get different one csh bash ksh etc most the computer users the world product symbolize quality has made their life easier and more productive and them that quality they not care about what innovative things has done other than make their life with computer one heck lot easier you may know better than most computer users this world but that will not change their perception this true face until unix come with decent gui that available all variations unix just will not catch with the mainstream computer users here the net are not mainstream computer users decent gui for all variations unix lessee what about motif the stuff from mit twm comes mind those are pretty standard heck xwindows program runs like likes all the end user has really know how manipulate the actual windows with the mouse and since gui graphical and bit easier figure out something the windows people have been pressing down our throats for some time now the thing fear that there will gap between the normal users running windows all flavors and the other power users running unix and other more advanced oses least right now dos still pretty much king can bring copy latest whiz bang programming demo over friends house and since both run dos can enjoy too agrier gompers gompers edu tfinn crash cts com preferred
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	creating batch file from windows sasswb sasswb unx sas com scott bass writes saw another post this list the subject was something like available for windows which someone said that make awk and ksh was available with microsoft toolkit what that product separate product part windows ksh would what need could count all sites imagine that was the mks toolkit from mortice kern systems another third party add and good one too nick langmaid nick brimbank apana org melbourne australia
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	need sdk well ddk the microsoft windows device driver kit ddk documentation blurb states that the user must separately acquire the microsoft windows software development kit sdk which contains the windows tools build the drivers are using borland with application frameworks this necessary also have copy the microsoft press programmer reference library books which normally comes with the sdk and microsoft macro assembler why the sdk neccessary for development virtual device drivers steven murray posted behalf brian davies
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article feenix metronet com jack feenix metronet com jack hudler writes article twalls ncc demon twalls ncc demon tim walls writes but don want have run blasted windows every time want delete tree absolutely ludicrous load hog like that just delete some files would like requiring crane change the tyre car then why don you download som the public domain utilitys the exactly what you want shut why should have this sort thing should included how about the millions people who don have access libraries over networks just because people can work around doesn mean that something shouldn done remedy the situation mark
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	stop message received running windows application menu running windows mhz with five megs memory the motherboard came with one meg and added the four megs this past weekend they were simms had installed the application menu dos command park till today parked the disk from the application menu without any problem when attempting park the heads today received the following message stop this application has violated system integrity due invalid general protection fault and will terminated what does this message mean thanks david trolio detrolio andromeda rutgers edu the united states can have increased revenue without punishing penalizing those who have obtained personal and economic achievements
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	problem with winqvt net and dos have been using winqvt net under win dos for quite sometime without any problem recently installed dos and cannot run winqvt net any more keep getting packet received for invalid port reset sent messages the console window can get more than telnet window and can use ftp any suggestions would greatly appreciated thanks george kontoravdis condor ccwf utexas edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	anyone heard deltree brandon wise bwise nyx edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters long bashing typography csympc scs leeds conmy writes unix case dependent yes unix case dependent pete gontier technology gurgle netcom com microsoft windows like putting lipstick chicken
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	hot key for screen saver louray seas gwu edu michael panayiotakis writes well renaming screensavers scr exe and running them has been pposted haven tried changing win ini but should have same effect shows the setup dialog box butdoesn enable the saver mickey try exe for save screen for config defaults the question not tree falls the forest and one sees hears did fall but rather how many koalas can that one tree take out tim cpsg com tim fox software pty ltd acn cato street east hawthorn fax victoria australia acsnet tim cpsg com the question not tree falls the forest and one sees
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows article efv binkley mcgill gel binkley mcgill gilles khouzam writes macsee zip ftp cica indiana edu supposed read and write mac disks never tried though good luck just tried but can say that works cause doesn read disks only reads there program that does read disks please let know not sure that this possible due the way the mac writes the disk think the way the sectors are set are different enough that can read this hardware problem which software cannot correct hope this helps and correct wrong
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may gps leeds csympc scs leeds conmy writes article feenix metronet com jack feenix metronet com jack hudler writes article twalls ncc demon twalls ncc demon tim walls writes but don want have run blasted windows every time want delete tree absolutely ludicrous load hog like that just delete some files would like requiring crane change the tyre car then why don you download som the public domain utilitys the exactly what you want shut why should have this sort thing should included how about the millions people who don have access libraries over networks just because people can work around doesn mean that something shouldn done remedy the situation these are perfectly valid points and agree glad are starting remedy this situation with dos and will get better future releases you need aware some history however the mid late point view was that was going take over the world and dos would phased out such resources for dos and windows for that matter development were mostly redirected the theory was keep just enough resources dos support people until they started using utilities and such for dos fell the wayside then windows hit the market flopped least seems doing little better but its future still cloudy and people either stayed with their dos and apps moved windows about that point time made its decision drop for dos windows the short term and windows the long term dos much improved over dos and was the first result refocussing dos and windows version takes things somewhat further and suspect future versions will offer even more terms real features work and have real clue about what coworkers over dosland are doing but know that there are heck lot more them than there were few years ago dave course these are opinions you want opinions person
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	tables and hplj printer after setting very large pages table word for windows asked word print laserjet worked fine first after much editing the table contents but not structure output requests now kick the into manual feed mode for the document containing the table other documents without tables print correctly where should look and what should change get the document with the long table use the paper drawer rather than kick into manual feed mode believe tried all the obvious printer manager changes well replacing the hppcl files with archived versions thanks for any and all help peter peter palij internet pbp columbia edu columbia university graduate school business uris hall new york
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	tiff file viewer needed hello need file viewer for bit tiff images run under windows matters alternatively package run server top windows would very well unfortunately the budget for this limited whatever end using has public domain very inexpensive thanks advance for any help john chapman sfu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	tiff file viewer needed article may sfu chapman sfu john chapman writes hello need file viewer for bit tiff images run under windows matters alternatively package run server top windows would very well unfortunately the budget for this limited whatever end using has public domain very inexpensive thanks advance for any help john chapman sfu paintshop pro for windows fantastic product can handle tiff gif bmp pcx and many other formats displaying them and converting between them there shareware version the program assume available the windows areas the standard anonymous ftp locations try ftp cica indiana edu log ftp use your username password and look for program called psp exe something like that have the registered version and the only major difference can detect that the unregistered version pops message when you start the program asking you please register once again fantastic software bits huge images everything brian brian kasper aka prisoner hovercraft full eels the aerospace corporation internet kasper aerospace aero org
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows agf agate berkeley edu miyamoto ucsee berkeley edu carleton miyamoto writes article efv binkley mcgill gel binkley mcgill gilles khouzam writes macsee zip ftp cica indiana edu supposed read and write mac disks never tried though good luck just tried but can say that works cause doesn read disks only reads there program that does read disks please let know not sure that this possible due the way the mac writes the disk think the way the sectors are set are different enough that can read this hardware problem which software cannot correct hope this helps and correct wrong you right you cannot read write mac apple disk apple disk without extra hardware however mac disks can read and written drive with software only this should probably added every and mac faq file sure gets asked enough
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	chameleon nfs card got compatible ethernet card and just received copy chameleon nfs unfortunately not compatible with the only what the latest version number for chameleon nfs did soemone tackle this problem thanks for help popineau mail popineau ese metz popineau loria voice mail surface mail ecole superieure electricite rue edouard belin metz cedex france
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters mike schleppo bocaraton ibm com mike dahmus writes may microsoft com jimfr microsoft com jim francis writes note have been working for for the past years have been developer for the past technically superior windows considering that makes more money per copy sold than ibm and wrote most differences between and had about half the memory requirements was quicker even half the memory was much more stable and one more thing ibm did themselves yes lot what has common with was written you guys however many the things that made much more successful win workplace shell than previous versions were ibm work wrote may technically accurate but really red herring the bits that are selling the product weren written you don forget seamless win apps couldn viz wlo but ibm managed right tom hatton hatton cgl ucsf edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters win ibm work you make laugh writing couple thousands lines code make windows compatible with your dpmi implementation does not make the rest windows ibm work don think has anything brag about when comes following dpmi but then consistency the hobgoblin etc suppose tom hatton hatton cgl ucsf edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	hot key for switching the program manager from article may lth knut tts lth ake knutsson win one may assign hot keys for the program items within the program manager how about the program manager itself there one already there some way assign one put progman with the hotkey your startup group should
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters yes lot what has common with was written you guys however many the things that made much more successful win workplace shell than previous versions were ibm work yes certainly was ibm that wrote the windows code
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	help with scan can somebody help out this just installed the version mcafree anti virus program and when tried scan the entire hard disk got the message sorry can open xxxx for couple files including the wscan exe this didn happen before previous version nor appear friend machine thankx
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	windows exit problem hello have problem with window program sometimes when save settings program manager the system corrupt one more grp files and progman exe can open next start thanks for any answer chrobert
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	old irish gaelic truetype font synopsis replies irish gaelic truetype font wanted synopsis wrote can anyone tell where can find windows truetype font that will give the characters used writing irish gaelic the old style for example this font the letter would look something like with horizontal bar sitting the top and the letter would look something like with horizontal bar sitting the top many thanks those who responded question unfortunately have had luck actually getting such font and lot people interested geting one and have decided create own truetype font fitting that description this font based that used the issue dineen dictionary and typical that found irish books from the early part the century this may take some time limited spare time but make available anyone who interested when ready the responses received are summerised below kevin donnelly caoimhin smo mentioned that michael everson everson irlearn ucd had developed some clo gaelach fonts for the macintosh and may able advise contacted michael and told that has three fonts available for the macintosh and that will eventually port them the but that will charging about for each one pbryant ukelele gcr com mentioned that uses two font that have nice irish gaelic look them these are durrow and american uncial normal don know where you can get these but don think that they have the effects looking for finally rhiannon netcom com rhia mentioned that the meath font included the casady greene fluent laser fonts package very much like what was describing faxed casady greene for info but got reply that post these newsgroups when make font available colum twomey
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	diamond windows conflict hello have some problems with diamond stealth local bus graphic card when try start windows system stop and display free files handles cannot load command system halted perhaps bios setup problem but not used ami bios setup somebody can explain how setup shadow video rom others shadow rom and also how config the two advenced setup for best utilisation graphic card thanks for any answer robert
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	best shareware rograms know that there list the best shareware and public domain programs for windows the cica ftp site but unfortunately year old the list author made sound like the list was going updated every month still being updated does anyone else compile similar list also are there any individual suggestions what the best shareware public domain programs are interested good software just about every category please try and include the ftp site and exact file name possible your post thanks sam siockman leland stanford edu will good david broza
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	anyone heard deltree the new command with dos that allows you erase your directory and all the files without first erasing the individual files dana wells yes another male dana wilfrid laurier waterloo urban geographers well mach wlu plan better
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	wanted hypertext alike for win fact looking for possibility connect different peaces information like the windows help system and don want program such system myself the necessary effort and afford should small possible thanx advance thomas
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows article efv binkley mcgill gel binkley mcgill gilles khouzam writes macsee zip ftp cica indiana edu supposed read and write mac disks never tried though good luck just tried but can say that works cause doesn read disks only reads there program that does read disks please let know well you can say that don work the inability read mac disks not problem rather hardware limmitation pcs have seen post about program able read non mac disks which comes with watchamacalit memory faling card which you just drop into com port something don remember specifics tho peace mickey
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters brian grier bjgrier bnr wrote most the computer users the world product symbolize quality has made their life easier and more productive and them that quality they not care about what innovative things has done other than make their life with computer one heck lot easier you may know better than most computer users this world but that will not change their perception none this changes the fact that msw objectively inferior its competition have begun learn life that the masses never choose the best option available them they choose the one which they have been conditioned think best glad not one them kurt bollacker duke university medical center kdb sunbar duke edu durham
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article may microsoft com cliffga microsoft com clifford garrett writes yes lot what has common with was written you guys however many the things that made much more successful win workplace shell than previous versions were ibm work yes certainly was ibm that wrote the windows code isn this the point better windows than windoze brett sherron ferrell email bferrell uceng edu cincy catch the cats college engineering you can
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	word for windows problems trying use the equation editor word for windows get couple error messages along the lines can find font extra for default printer some characters not displayed printed try installing equation editor again reinstall new printer similar for the font fences know have these fonts system but are unable use them have tried both these solutions avail anyone has had similar problems and has found way fix this could they let know urgently required thanks jason cleeve cleeve ieee org comp sci hons elect eng trobe university australia email cleeve lucifer latrobe edu jason cleeve cleeve ieee org comp sci hons elect eng trobe university australia email cleeve lucifer latrobe edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows article uupcb hal com scott lynn hal com scott lynn writes well alot graphic design work and remaining loyal dos windows instead macs college isn though and can only scan images macintosh does anyone know program that can read mac disks the apple file exchange the nac that writes dos disks probably leaves visibly older during every session want the transfer windows instead would appreciate any info want windows program but will gleefully settle for dos program called mac ette allows you read mac high density disks dos machine you can get the program from simtel not sure the directory location jim powlesland internet powlesla acs ucalgary academic computing services voice university calgary message calgary alberta canada fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu kurt bollacker writes none this changes the fact that msw objectively inferior its competition you mean that msw objectively inferior some respects which trivially true that objectively inferior all respecets which trivially false you mean something else what criteria have you chosen for your objective assesment are you sure that these criteria are themselves objective have begun learn life that the masses never choose the best option available them they choose the one which they have been conditioned think best glad not one them comment
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	word for windows problems article may lugb latrobe edu cleeve lucifer latrobe edu jason cleeve writes trying use the equation editor word for windows get couple error messages along the lines can find font extra for default printer some characters not displayed printed try installing equation editor again reinstall new printer similar for the font fences know have these fonts system but are unable use them have tried both these solutions avail anyone has had similar problems and has found way fix this could they let know urgently required thanks back congratulations you just discovered very nasty and very frequently ecountered bug the word setup program once you know what wrong quite easy fix into the fonts dialog under control panel and select the two fonts extra and fences delete them but only delete the list entries not the disk files now select add and add the fonts extra plain and fences plain close the font box close control panel and restart word everything should alright now does anyone know microsoft has fixed this thing yet they have know about now been frequently reported daniel silevitch dmsilev athena mit edu massachusetts institute technology
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	logic backup have been backing hard drive ever since had install everything from scratch after crash learned the hard way didn using windows based backup program actually norton and began wondering about the logic this sure accidentally delete file can get from the archive but what disk crashes again would not able start windows run the backup program note crash mean there was some error message that prevented the machine from booting properly think gave too early but didn have the time patience tools figure out exactly what the problem was hard drive needed cleaning anyway yeah right this whole scenario complicated the fact that using stacker think there are possibilities right disk really crashes would least have install dos and windows get the backup program working wrong there easy way make mirror hard disk that can easily restore state from scratch the polls are open tom ioerger univeristy illinois grad student ioerger uiuc edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu kurt bollacker writes brian grier bjgrier bnr wrote most the computer users the world product symbolize quality has made their life easier and more productive and them that quality they not care about what innovative things has done other than make their life with computer one heck lot easier you may know better than most computer users this world but that will not change their perception none this changes the fact that msw objectively inferior its competition this indeed true prefer windows certainly much better than microsoft windows dos wolfgang strobl wolfgang strobl gmd gmd gesellschaft fuer mathematik und datenverarbeitung mbh schloss birlinghoven box include sankt augustin germany std disclaimer hpp
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters brian grier bjgrier bnr wrote most the computer users the world product symbolize quality has made their life easier and more productive and them that quality they not care about what innovative things has done other than make their life with computer one heck lot easier you may know better than most computer users this world but that will not change their perception excuse are you one those people who enjoy working win come talk house mate mine and tell him how productive his life when encountered yet another sudden appearence the dos prompt while cutting and pasting win empty win screen without any tasks running esc brings empty list progman has done again leo there klingons the starboard bow leo mekenkamp scrape off jim klikspaanweg leiden the netherlands mekenkamp stpc leidenuniv leo sthp leidenuniv
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and after this fall believe ibm longer has any rights view microsoft code after that the only way maintain some sort compatibility reverse engineer would you want reverse engineer ole application don they retain windows oem status that gives them source code and since windows headed toward win win slmr the file bank bbs pcboard usr hst nodes rime internet largest clipper file collection the world
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows article may seas gwu edu louray seas gwu edu michael panayiotakis writes article efv binkley mcgill gel binkley mcgill gilles khouzam writes macsee zip ftp cica indiana edu supposed read and write mac disks never tried though good luck just tried but can say that works cause doesn read disks only reads there program that does read disks please let know well you can say that don work the inability read mac disks not problem rather hardware limmitation pcs have seen post about program able read non mac disks which comes with watchamacalit memory faling card which you just drop into com port something don remember specifics tho peace mickey all drives both mac and the disk spins constant rpm mac disk drives the spin rate the disk varied that the tracks pass under the head constant speed slower rotation for the outer tracks and faster rotation for the inner tracks needs special controller hardware make this happen brian casey bnc macsch com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	logic backup the newer versions norton backup for windows least there emergency disk which will allow you restore from tape without reinstalling dos windows understand sort cumbersome use but not nearly much reinstalling everything steven mccluney better remain silent and sam chensun tamu edu thought fool than speak and remove all doubts can hardly speak for myself
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and article may samba oit unc edu dil admin mhs unc edu dave laudicina writes question the next question even did want run and had this big monster machine run there diverse think you deliberatly overstating the requirements for considering that multi threaded true multitasking and takes the place dos and windows and more actually think the requirements for are very reasoable also think that anyone using windows without megs ram and megs hard drive space beating their head against wall those are also legitimate requirements for fact the requirements for windows and are about equal the natural progress things for government gain ground and for liberty yield thomas jefferson brad kepley kepley photon phys unca edu voice days
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows because the technology apple uses with their disks ibm cant read them without special hardware disks work more alike ibm only can read disks andy
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and waiting for june first roll around when can then get hands solaris unix for the intel chip know that there are many other unix possibilities out there but this includes the wabi windows api binary interface think technology that wil run windows apps straight outta box this flies enhanced mode then here another contender look out for the corporate education market too big and complex for the home front windows mac sys will take those while win wkgrps will fight out for the small mid businesses however once the powerpc becomes available especially laptop notebook form then these will migrate into all markets the ability connect unix machine work and yet still run windows mac apps home going real attractive alot people just predictions mike mike bendtsen msbendts mtu edu elm apt ccli senior technical consultant hancock michigan technological university
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows you right you cannot read write mac apple disk apple disk without extra hardware however mac disks can read and written drive with software only this should probably added every and mac faq file sure gets asked enough agree that this should added some sort faq list but have strayed from the original topic our computer environment pretty split between mac and lucky and get have both desk but there are people who have and need share data with the mac users here the mac users have problems because package called dos mounter which automatically lets the mac read dos disks natively for the there equivilant that know both mac ette and macsee have been inconsistant under the dos platform and requires you perform the activity dos program selectively transport the files the question originally posed was there such program that hooks into windows like dll that will interpret the reading mac disk when and allow access through the standard file dialogs quite clear that this would only available for the flopies fiske tfiske qualcomm com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	strange windows problem windows installation has somehow gone awry whenever try run windows now the logo comes but when tries enter windows itself the screen gets totally screwed the wrong graphics mode something completely illegible although functional can still exit dos with alt return combination tried reinstall windows again but you recall halfway through the installation process install takes you into windows and there graphics problem surfaces again cannot complete the installation all this started after trying get game working system but config sys and autoexec bat have been restored what they were before this problem cropped running with diamond stealth vram resinstalled the stealth video drivers again but with luck also using qemm and stacker but windows installed stacked partition and course worked perfectly before any email replies and suggestions would appreciated thanks hutch
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	logic backup article uiuc edu ioerger sophocles uiuc edu thomas ioerger writes think there are possibilities right disk really crashes would least have install dos and windows get the backup program working using the software you using agree with you there what did installed dos windows and cpbackup functionally the same your norton for the purposes this discussion and used the dos backup command just that much restore boot the system diskette and use dos restore read that much then boot windows and restore full backups using cpb norton your case overwriting what just restored that allows keep this skeletal windows essentially unchanged with all customization the real copy done using the party backup utility wrong there easy way make mirror hard disk that can easily restore state from scratch seems possible you can put skeletal versions dos and your backup utility system floppy then you could restore all one martin lodahl systems analyst capacity planning pacific bell malodah pacbell com sacramento usa good for ancient druids runnin nekkid through the wuids drinkin strange fermented fluids good enough for unk
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article strobl gmd strobl gmd wolfgang strobl writes news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu kurt bollacker writes none this changes the fact that msw objectively inferior its competition this indeed true prefer windows certainly much better than microsoft windows dos please apples apples beta and such cannot accepted competitor win not the market same for for couple weeks wolfgang strobl wolfgang strobl gmd btw cute sig brett sherron ferrell email bferrell uceng edu cincy catch the cats college engineering you can
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and article may mtu edu msbendts mtu edu michael scott bendtsen writes waiting for june first roll around when can then get hands solaris unix for the intel chip know that there are many other unix possibilities out there but this includes the wabi windows api binary interface think technology that wil run windows apps straight outta box will certainly help able run windows and dos apps but the only way that solaris any other scheme going challenge microsoft they can somehow get the prices for solaris whatever apps down dos competitive level everybody would rather run solaris app solaris system and app system they usually just can afford unix system because the high prices for good unix software the natural progress things for government gain ground and for liberty yield thomas jefferson brad kepley kepley photon phys unca edu voice days
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article mekenkamp stpc leidenuniv mekenkamp stpc leidenuniv leo mekenkamp writes excuse are you one those people who enjoy working win come talk house mate mine and tell him how productive his life when encountered yet another sudden appearence the dos prompt while cutting and pasting win empty win screen without any tasks running esc brings empty list progman has done again sigh don know what your roomate doing but must something wrong are there people who enjoy using windows yes admit given choice between mac and windows choose windows every time start another flame thread iskandar taib the only thing worse than peach ala internet ntaib silver ucs indiana edu frog frog ala peach bitnet ntaib iubacs
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters jack feenix metronet com jack hudler writes called the free enterprize system suggests that those who wish enhance dos sell give away microsoft can everything everyone period has been done but the other companies don have the marketing budgets that dos for instance everything that command com should have been but never could under those who use usually find more addictive than crack cocaine but they have rely word mouth for sales seems have worked pretty good far but your corporate weenie manager type usually likes see big glossy magazine that okay marketing isn fundamental human right but they got product that superior the dos command interpreter every way they have lot more proud than does really gave damn they could duplicate buy outright they got the money even use the old ruse sending engineers out help them with compatability issues and absconding with the technology dos mediocre product cheap price backed top notch marketing and vendor agreements the mediocre was excusable the early days when was someone else hack but they had ten years play with interesting thought that most products that aware the last few years allow you access the names the designers and programmers through easter egg screens including windows least have the names buried the files there such thing dos and are they too ashamed have their names there least one fool every married couple
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	mac disks windows gel binkley mcgill gilles khouzam writes macsee zip ftp cica indiana edu supposed read and write mac disks never tried though good luck just tried but can say that works cause doesn read disks only reads there program that does read disks please let know the easiest way this you can send the files accross the network this much easier going from mac because you don have worry about losing the resource fork the file often problem when sending binary files from mac
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters may microsoft com cliffga microsoft com clifford garrett writes yes lot what has common with was written you guys however many the things that made much more successful win workplace shell than previous versions were ibm work yes certainly was ibm that wrote the windows code cliff you know the difference between windows and win here helpful hint running windows under only possible real mode dos box course this only possible with windows since windows longer has real mode the ability run standard mode the ability have windows clipboard the ability run seamless and few other things were all added ibm win now everybody who running windows real mode dos box under raise your hand finally everybody who running win under raise your hand get the picture cliff mike dahmus internet miked vnet ibm com vnet mdahmus boca penpm development ibm ipnet mike schleppo bocaraton ibm com ibm personal systems disclaimer not official ibm spokesman
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article strobl gmd strobl gmd wolfgang strobl writes this indeed true prefer windows certainly much better than microsoft windows dos how you like compared mike
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	more info windows help files here the latest relocating your help files server the winhelp function told does search your path relocating windows helpfiles won problem long you include the path where you move them however application has hardcoded the path into their code that when winhelp invoked searches the given path winhelp hwnd amipro for example then winhelp does not search your path and instead looks only that directory where you have installed your software tested this out variety software packages moved all helpfiles the drive and included this the path statement here the results for different software packages norton desktop found helpfiles windows for workgroups found helpfiles windows found helpfiles powerpoint found helpfiles word found helpfiles excel did not find helpfiles strange foxpro for windows found helpfiles lotus amipro did not find helpfiles procomm plus for windows did not find helpfiles guess this better than nothing but would make sense able specify global path for helpfiles anyone has any comments can help anyone left something out please let know lhighley gozer idbsu edu thanks for the help from everyone especially jagrant emr emr more info this topic develops
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article mekenkamp stpc leidenuniv mekenkamp stpc leidenuniv leo mekenkamp writes brian grier bjgrier bnr wrote most the computer users the world product symbolize quality has made their life easier and more productive and them that quality they not care about what innovative things has done other than make their life with computer one heck lot easier you may know better than most computer users this world but that will not change their perception excuse are you one those people who enjoy working win come talk house mate mine and tell him how productive his life when encountered yet another sudden appearence the dos prompt while cutting and pasting win empty win screen without any tasks running esc brings empty list progman has done again leo there klingons the starboard bow leo mekenkamp scrape off jim klikspaanweg leiden the netherlands mekenkamp stpc leidenuniv leo sthp leidenuniv been messin roun progman ini have gessing you been tuning the system that the only way can remember getting blank screen from ctrl esc when one the progman ini parameters was twinked can remember never seen win something like that her own captain tal
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	some info the dos msw meltdown progressing nicely bruce dubbs bdubbs tamu edu wrote another comment least you have ibm consultants trying help never heard microsoft sending customer engineers client organization help solve problems could wrong but they its not common knowledge microsoft has division called microsoft consulting that does what ibm fes field engineers however neither company just and sends consultants client sites both companies charge very high hourly rates for site consulting unless the client has already paid annual service contract barton wright molecular simulations inc voice bwright msi com burlington fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu kurt bollacker writes agree one ever definitively met challenge only batted around semantics well guess things did turn out expected hmmm gave two examples which matched your objective criteria and your response was some subjective claptrap about them being lame you never did counter the fact that those examples fit your objective criteria one wonders who playing semantic games here rick schaut uucp uunet beaver microsoft richs microsoft doesn speak for and don speak for microsoft
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	panasonic truetype what going have just added panasonic pin dot matrix printer installed the appropriate windows printer driver one specifically for this printer but unable persuade the poxy thing print correctly what appears happening that the truetype fonts don get printed properly experiments show that all graphic images for example line drawing from corel draw print graphicsworkshop for windows happily prints gifs etc notepad and write will print correctly providing the font the text are printer fonts when print truetype fonts some lines appear printed the wrong order change the text font printer font the problem eliminated have tried using printer drivers for printers which the snappy name emulates namely epsom and ibm proprinter and the same problem occurs there some kind soul who can tell just what the hell going would most chuffed david
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	please help amiga user find comfort windows night amiga user day work with windows much more comfortable windows had two things good personal information manager you know calendar address book reminder list etc rolled into one clean interface good file manager microsofts very poor standards how about one that has left and right window and allows file operations between them being able launch programs from the same interface would nice well text reading and graphics viewing those who are familiar with directory opus the amiga know what looking for anyone can steer towards ftp sight with these programs would make transition windows lot easier please reply via email rarely get read this group thanks much why would such jerk know that doesn smoke steve lombardi drugs and doesn cocaine and doesn shoot stlombo acm rpi edu smack and doesn even drink beer why would such ker ween why would such jerk know that doesn smoke steve lombardi drugs and doesn cocaine and doesn shoot stlombo acm rpi edu smack and doesn even drink beer why would
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	old irish gaelic truetype font synopsis replies ctwomey vms eurokom colum twomey comments finally rhiannon netcom com rhia mentioned that the meath font included the casady greene fluent laser fonts package very much like what was describing faxed casady greene for info but got reply casady greene seems notoriously slow about responding heard from others who have contacted them they may not reply via fax but via snail mail give them time contact them again rhia let joy and innocence prevail from the movie toys
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	please help amiga user find comfort windows stlombo eos acm rpi edu steve lombardi writes night amiga user day work with windows much more comfortable windows had two things good personal information manager you know calendar address book reminder list etc rolled into one clean interface lotus organizer quick cheap pretty and has all those features you want good file manager microsofts very poor standards you might look one the shell alternatives provided third parties norton desktop for windows for instance personally like file manager which comes with windows much faster than ndw and the file manager that part windows for workgroups even has decent button bar how about one that has left and right window and allows file operations between them being able launch programs from the same interface would nice well text reading and graphics viewing those who are familiar with directory opus the amiga know what looking for that first you can with file manager but the others you need look ndw tools for windows etc anyone can steer towards ftp sight with these programs would make transition windows lot easier please reply via email rarely get read this group thanks much haven yet seen decent freeware even shareware shell but may just nectar nirvana the absurd the essential concept nectar world std com and the first truth camus
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	experiences with dos have been having trouble posting this article from within tin for over week you get multiple copies apologies here challenge microsoft microsort supporters defend the pathetic state dos upgrade distribution long story but would make good reading for those who are interested knowing the potential pitfalls upgrading dos that have been able notice after only about week playing around with envorinment travelmate winsx ram disk system bios version texas instruments vga bios cirrus logic quadtel advance power manager battery pro texas instruments smart drive cache win dos parameters windows benchmark winbench labs after updgrading dos could not understand why certain things became slow especially after decided try dblspace the process finding out why discovered some interesting things disk performance with double space and smart drive while most things did not appear slow down most the time certain applications appeared run very much slower what was interesting that commands like chkdsk and defrag were running far too slowly consider them useful any standards suspected double space and decided measure its impact system using winbench the real disk winmark for the original system shipped from factory with dos and windowws became when upgraded dos with thus there effective performance degradation more than percent which did not really surprise because knew that compression must cost something specifically for short sequential reads bytes actually improves transfer rates about because cpu being faster than more cpu cycles needed for more than compensated savings cycles however for all other cases particularly large random writes the transfers take three times long while the performance depends the type access random sequential small large transfer units the average based winbench assumptions the disk slows down half its speed the tests alone done real mode see winbench and with smartdrv not say much except that helps put into those subjective statements like there noticable difference performance even that will speed disk access when you have fast cpu and slow disk this explained why some applications ran markedly slower but not why chkdsk and defrag the latter especially too long double space and windows dblspace will not run all from within windows not even you wanted only get information not modify anything for that matter even check its usage try fasthelp dblspace dos box within windows and you will see what mean from the error message you get how narrow minded can programer get wonder yes this information can obtained through the mstools add file manager but this mstools dll does not understand compressed floppy use the dos supplement utility create compressed floppy you dont know how dos defragmenter incompatible with apm defragmentation seemed take too much time even waited patiently till finished and then ran again just confirm this confirmation dblspace def command for the drive should take more than seconds much faster other defragmenters have used but took minutes discovered that moved the mouse defragmentation checking ran faster the figure ticked more rapidly dawned that this had with battery saver advanced power management apm module which slows the clock down when thinks that the cpu idle and obviously thought defragmentation was idle process after disabling the power saver this operation took only seconds microsft programmers think and gateway nomad users are idiots the readme txt file you can find the the following running microsoft backup with and gateway nomad computers avoid conflict between the turbo feature and microsoft backup for windows dos add switch the device command your config sys that loads the battery pro file before you run microsoft backup type setpower the command prompt you checked manual the option you will realise that means disable all power saving features your notebook why would anyone want run driver disabled have found out not only does power management interfere with microsoft backup the readme txt claims but chkdsk and dblspace and who knows what else are crippled the power saver obvious that there not such thing apm specifications there indeed such thing then either microsoft programmers programmers dont know how read these specifications you dont have guess who are the idiots the way you run the advance power management utility power exe dos when you check the status says power management status setting adv max cpu idle time this figure seems the steady state value notebook when running nothing windows with only program manager iconised form does that mean that windows takes cpu all for itself and that have best only left for useful work such overhead justified whether not windows operating system just another user interface dos alone reports idle time looks like windows good example busy waiting type package that like students study the classical negative example our times microsoft programmers not know batch programming like structure startup script and thus have the equivalent addpath statements like this set path dos set path etc bin path bin set path etc windows path windows set path path bcc bin set path path mouse even though the new dos was installed the same directory the old one dos dos installation program modifes each and every path statement and prepends dos its value result resultant path has many dos the installation program wanted remove the old dos path and add the new dos path clearly has only scan for the path statement containg the old dos directory and replace the new dos path even this should only done the new dos installed directory different from the old one being upgraded instead the microsoft programmer you can call this person one decided meddle every path statement had the autoexec and prepend dos the value wonder microsoft desparate that would not fire programmers who are incapable the thought process started thread this when dos came and the microsoft representative singapore called about this poster fact specifically said his counterparts saw the poster and relayed the information him did not have access internet now that has not changed one bit fact you have path statement with path already not obvious that the this statement should not touched for any reason another example the inability microsoft programmers understand batch programming had the mouse driver invoked set mouse etc mouse set path path mouse loadhigh mouse mouse com guess what memmaker did replaced the last statement with etc mouse mouse com why difficult just replace loadhigh with and its parameters without touching the rest the line not understand dos software quality dos the only operating system know which under normal usage you end creating file that you cannot get rid using the commands that come with deliberately being cryptic about this challenge microsoft use all its programmers catch this bug and publish they dont within week will post how you can create this ghost file surely can pick this bug without even looking for after using particular command only twice sure two dozen microsoft idiot programmers randomly banging their keyboards over week could find that what was told how microsoft tests the quality their products think funny that microsoft has found ways test quality when accepted the industry that quality cannot tested but can only built into the product wonder they cannot provide any form guarantees their products not even decent list bugs that will prevent scores user from destroying their disks beyond repair also you run dblspace def often enough repeatedly when the disk fully defragmented you may get errors that was created the defragmenters got sys file size error and got truncated when did the chkdsk this happend only after five successive defragmentation efforst after the first one supposedly did its job and with new file creation since microsft dont you dare reply this poster the network until you admit that your has bugs and are willing let know what should watch out for have already used jaya jayasooriah cse unsw sign paris hotel box kensington nsw tel fax sports jacket may worn dinner internet jayas vast unsw edu but not trousers jayasooriah cse unsw sign norwegian cocktail lounge box kensington nsw ladies are requested tel fax not have children internet jayas vast unsw edu the bar
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	please help amiga user find comfort windows article ada fitz cornell edu stlombo eos acm rpi edu steve lombardi writes night amiga user day work with windows much more comfortable windows had two things good personal information manager you know calendar address book reminder list etc rolled into one clean interface prefer infoselect myself but strange kind pim good file manager microsofts very poor standards how about one that has left and right window and allows file operations between them being able launch programs from the same interface would nice well text reading and graphics viewing those who are familiar with directory opus the amiga know what looking for well few things might help you like the file manager better get more than one window simply double click drive icon that only gives you one window work with fallacy you can drag files between windows any icon the tree the left side the window and any drive icon this beats your left and right window you can have many open you wish instead just two you can launch any app from within file manager double clicking the executable icon you can launch any application and open document file double clicking the document file icon provided you have associations set correctly this easily done with the menus the browse capability adds lot functionality you name all your text files with txt and point all gif tiff etc files towards paintshop wingif this takes care your requirement for text reading and graphics viewing know someone who prefers using file manager his shell setting all the associations you need the way directory opus half good file manager then must pretty good indeed file manager just needs you understand how some things are done iskandar taib the only thing worse than peach ala internet ntaib silver ucs indiana edu frog frog ala peach bitnet ntaib iubacs
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	biobliography program info needed please think somebody posted some info about biobliography program one two months ago don rember the detail what like have one software organize the literature refereing for scientific publications the functions like would able data base managment able print with special formats for different journals any info would appreciated ming wang radiation laboratory university notre dame wang edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and forgive this stupid but didn see rumor somewhere that apple was working intel platform say like system for chris
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how 
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	how can install the printshop deluxe windows with the norton desktop 
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	screen snapshot there way can save snapshot screen file under windows similar the way one can press cmd shift mac please email rather than posting thanks dave fisher fisher lyra hac com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	please help amiga user find comfort windows article ada fitz cornell edu stlombo eos acm rpi edu steve lombardi writes from stlombo eos acm rpi edu steve lombardi subject please help amiga user find comfort windows date may gmt night amiga user day work with windows much more comfortable windows had two things good personal information manager you know calendar address book reminder list etc rolled into one clean interface good file manager microsofts very poor standards how about one that has left and right window and allows file operations between them being able launch programs from the same interface would nice well text reading and graphics viewing those who are familiar with directory opus the amiga know what looking for have written the file manager hfm wich has two windows which compare the files two directorys find out wether there are equal similar files the most important operations copy move delete show the file start progam navigate the directory tree can invoked dragging directory entry with the mouse this very convenient because the selection the file and the operation performed occur one move for bitmap graphic viewing the program vpic can integrated for spreadsheat and database files use the view program from pctools hfm can configured use arbitrary viewers show special data formats does also present archives from pkzip etc simulated subdirectorys this filemanager has somewhat non standart user interface but very convienient use and the prefered file manager several labs our university the drawback this filemanager still dos program and the development windows version has not yet begun use the program package run zip where run tells its windows companion sched exe which windows program should started this way you can start windows program from dosbox the new version released soon includes new command for automating this windows program start ftp archives for the mentioned programs all these archives have several mirror sites simtel oak oakland edu filutl hfm zip gif vpic zip garbo garbo uwasa dirutil hfm zip cica ftp cica indiana edu util run zip andreas helke molekulare genetik universitaet heidelberg germany email genius embnet dkfz heidelberg the header this posting does not contain valid smtp mail address
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	looking for medical cliparts wife physiotherapist and she looking for some cliparts skeleton and male female body currently using windows draw which can import all kind graphic formats therefore anything will please advise the existance any freeware commerical source that can turn since don normally read this newsgroup please responds via mail thanks advance jackson loong feeder networking engineering internet jloong dnbf bram cdx mot com motorola codex canada macintosh ljl email mot com matheson blvd voice mississauga ont fax disclaimer opinions are own not motorola
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	ati avi drivers article qfwynh rzvpv andrew cmu edu andrew houghton andrew cmu edu writes noticed ati had posted beta avi drivers for their mach boards compuserve has anyone had the chance tgo try them how well they work very well indeed home bus version the graphics pro can stretch avi window and will continue play back smoothly drops few more frames but most machines even attempting such thing would mean one frame update every seconds isa graphics was able zoom without any perceptible performance penalty the best performance seen far with the possible exception intel indeo board which uses overlay doesn have move the decompressed data over the isa bus any point john munsch
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	font size for dos window 
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	winprinter real deal hello netters recenlty aquired enough money purchase laser printer the other day bought the computer shopper mag was looking through printer review section and noticed the winprinter the machine incredibly low priced for all the features has dpi meg ram postscript compatable envelope printing question does anyone have one these know why the price cheap would appricaiate someone would pass their knowledge this subject thanks alot dave donuts are girls best friend
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters get the picture just find humorous that running windows apps for what makes more credible cliff
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters tim glauert thg cam orl wrote article news duke edu kdb teer acpub duke edu kurt bollacker writes tim glauert thg cam orl wrote article news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu kurt bollacker writes none this changes the fact that msw objectively inferior its competition you mean that msw objectively inferior some respects which trivially true that objectively inferior all respecets which trivially false you mean something else what criteria have you chosen for your objective assesment are you sure that these criteria are themselves objective believe that enough inferior make overall product inferior its competition apple system nextstep unix xwindows pick your favorite flavor other words your opinion that msw inferior its competition that not the same msw being objectively inferior technically inferior the guis that listed have already described why say briefly system easier learn and use there have been independent studies that effect can run msw applications and has more stable multitasking nextstep easier learn use and program more stable multitasking unix easy learn and use more stable multitasking with the prpoer setup all these will exchange data with msw machines well msw machines will amongst themselves interoperability not issue this criterion inferior you have another then perhaps incorrect you pick the glove kurt bollacker duke university medical center kdb sunbar duke edu durham
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	winfax files ascii format winfax pro provides you with ocr the ocr from omnipage although not customizable does the job and auto matic you want and much cheaper than the same package omni page professional sold separatly last time check winfax pro was only
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	epson stylus does anyone have any information better first hand experience the new epson bubblejet printer stylus particularly interested hearing how well works under windows presume that special printer driver required supplied standard able print everything that standard postscript laserprinter could many thanks for any replies george george bolt dept psychology univ york
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article tasvi lll winken llnl gov fuess writes for one like windows prior had little use for because early problems since preferred operating system nah windows were operating system would windows motif geoworks desqview the shareware win boss library and that what name text based windowing system written applesoft that ran the old faithful apple note the similarity all the above rely some underlying real imho they are windowing systems and just that some are cooler than others though whay
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	smartdrv and dblspace recent article rcaldrn med miami edu richard calderon writes just received gateway with windows and dos ran few times with apparent problems decided give double space try after compressing the drive with problems decided load windows took minute seconds load after dblspace seconds before dblspace tinkered little with the machine and noticed error message saying smartdrive cannot work with dblspace not unreasonable since the smartdrv packaged with dos version make sure that all your drivers himem emm smartdrv are being executed from the dos directory loss the cache provided smartdrv could your problem not don know what might cause the startup delay testbed for dblspace which has very minimal amount data the disk that don eat too much time install and uninstall dblspace boots about seconds from the starting dos herald the end the autoexec bat execution don have handy system with more realistic volume data time joe morris mitre
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters since started this twist this thread kdb teer acpub duke edu kurt bollacker writes believe that enough inferior make overall product inferior its competition apple system nextstep unix xwindows pick your favorite flavor other words your opinion that msw inferior its competition that not the same msw being objectively inferior technically inferior the guis that listed have already described why say briefly actually you fell into the above because you said believe you had used the rest this post your previous post not think anyone would have agrued with you system easier learn and use there have been independent studies that effect can run msw applications and has more stable multitasking nextstep easier learn use and program more stable multitasking unix easy learn and use more stable multitasking the following three are not the competition for windows imho course system does not currently run intel boxes nextstep rather expensive should competitor windows not unix with the exception all the above will require most users spend very large sum money upgrade applications ones that run under these and basically money speaks louder than anything else you keep saying more stable multitasking what you mean not multi finder gem geoworks operative multi tasking but real honest goodness prioritized pre emptive multi tasking with the prpoer setup all these will exchange data with msw machines well msw machines will amongst themselves interoperability not issue basically this moot since most users have been able share data for quite long time but are still blind know this criterion inferior you have another then perhaps incorrect you pick the glove why pick you stated the reasons behind your opinions stated them very straight forward though over protective manner and aside from earlier comments about who actually competitor think are agreement does tim glauert agree let wait and see disclaimer the opinions expressed are mine not those bnr brian user developer wanted computer play games bell northern research buy amiga however have research triangle park real work please get lost
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu kurt bollacker writes system easier learn and use there have been independent studies that effect can run msw applications and has more stable multitasking nextstep easier learn use and program more stable multitasking unix easy learn and use more stable multitasking also more customizable can make the computer what want whereas with msw have what microsoft wants how bind control left mousebutton type hello world not that want that but tjl
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	smartdrv and dblspace article rcaldrn epistat rcaldrn med miami edu richard calderon writes just received gateway with windows and dos ran few times with apparent problems decided give double space try after compressing the drive with problems decided load windows took minute seconds load after dblspace seconds before dblspace tinkered little with the machine and noticed error message saying smartdrive cannot work with dblspace the reason for the change from smartdrv exe included with windows smartdrv exe included with dos compatability with dblspace sure you are running smartdrv from your dos directory
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	pctools for windows demo someone has downloaded the pctools demo from compuserve please upload cica other ftp site thanks dean elroy edu
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	afterdark startrek out memory article may informix com jerry doodles informix com writes have the startrek version afterdark running but nearly always reports space out memory which floats across the top the screen what have not set correctly got ram jerry you right doesn appear working correctly really should say space the last frontier across the top john grant jagrant emr emr airborne geophysics geological survey canada ottawa
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article news duke edu kdb teer acpub duke edu kurt bollacker writes rick schaut richs microsoft com wrote article news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu kurt bollacker writes agree one ever definitively met challenge only batted around semantics well guess things did turn out expected hmmm gave two examples which matched your objective criteria and your response was some subjective claptrap about them being lame you never did counter the fact that those examples fit your objective criteria repeat what are they you mentioned what you tried present innovative but what new concept was brought market efficient basic basic existed before and efficiency not original either ole what new concept does that bring document oriented computing the mac had that before msw you simply haven made your point the burden proof upon you exact challenge what new computing concept has brought market first nothing more nothing less explain how your examples fit that criterion hmm has anyone computer geeks included ever consider that inovation not limited software hardware true products not boast features that invented but how many products out there other vendors out there are truely innovative their continuing development think what makes special the public thier innovative pricing true the xwindows mac next all have some feature thier gui that are better than but people like can afford them true that apple has lower their pricing the low end models but they are just that low end system better operating system but the machines they operate just are too expensive for tastes unix platform powerful enuf but tell the common user set xdefault still confused what some them things and they either puke faint think about low prices aint innovative come down but for the product offers and the lower cost and powerful hardware that runs compare macs kinda innovative yea guess the fact that the support products and applications they have garnered for mswindows does make them kinda innovative too dixon dly joule elee calpoly edu dly oboe calpoly edu electrical and electronic engineering cal poly slo
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	info menu choice file manager article shenoy vincent iastate edu shenoy iastate edu shiva shenoy writes may trintex uucp charles tinman dev prodigy com charles emmons writes description file manager info menu option edit the winfile ini file there section addons great else add the following two lines the addons section exists then just add the second line addons info filesize dll note that the filesize dll part the windows resource kit you install and you can download from cica will make the appropriate changes itself kartik you quote article remember trim down the essentials anant kartik mithal akm uoregon edu network manager student comp science oregon eugene fax
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	pctools for windows demo elroy edu burris dean writes someone has downloaded the pctools demo from compuserve please upload cica other ftp site thanks dean elroy edu sorry don have the demo but have the program and have been using for the past few weeks since now have dos well don use many the features pct win but use the pct desktop with drag and drop printing folders folders and multiple desktops the file manager which far superior win pat presidente ppreside cln etc
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	capturing screen shots article acorn wrote trying capture some colour screenshots from windows currently have tried pressing print screen copy the screen the clipboard then paste the clipboard into the windows paint package many thanks for the replies received this couple people suggested how could get the paint package work properly but the end took the advice someone else try paintshop pro from cica indiana edu thanks again philip practice random kindness and senseless acts beauty
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	head head win and article ehs balsam unca edu kepley photon phys unca edu writes article may samba oit unc edu dil admin mhs unc edu dave laudicina writes question the next question even did want run and had this big monster machine run there diverse think you deliberatly overstating the requirements for considering that multi threaded true multitasking and takes the place dos and windows and more actually think the requirements for are very reasoable also think that anyone using windows without megs ram and megs hard drive space beating their head against wall those are also legitimate requirements for fact the requirements for windows and are about equal exquise since when does mankind consider twice equal the natural progress things for government gain ground and for liberty yield thomas jefferson brad kepley kepley photon phys unca edu voice days wim van holder katholieke universiteit leuven tel departement fax dekenstraat leuven mail wimvh liris tew kuleuven belgium fdbaq kuleuven
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	terminal woes have vlb machine with wang fax modem when using the windows terminal application the only way can get see the modem change com then back and change com then works fine have set com the port use don have anything plugged into com and looked over the manual for all worth but what missing the modem jumpered for com irq which understand means can use the second serial port and the modem the same time but not using the second serial port anyway also when using procomm for dos always sees the modem and dials but doesn always connect when the other end answers don know that helps any thanks brian reed bdr cbnewsg att com
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	ati graphics ultra pro problem have the following problem dell with the ati graphics ultra pro eisa when start windows the first times try run application does not start windows will show the following error message error executing application there not enough memory run the application after the first tries the application want run will start and afterwards there are more problems when change the video driver from mach this problem does not occur suspect the ati drivers tried both the build and build driver does anyone have clue van harten philips research laboratories tel prof holstlaan fax eindhoven email vharten prl philips the netherlands
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	challenge microsoft supporters article news duke edu kdb sunbar duke edu kurt bollacker writes tim glauert thg cam orl wrote other words your opinion that msw inferior its competition that not the same msw being objectively inferior technically inferior the guis that listed now you are starting define your criteria this criterion inferior afraid that you haven actually proved that you have shown that some aspects msw are technically inferior other systems said earlier this all you are trying say then trivially true but some aspects msw are actually technically superior each the other systems resource requirements performace device support printer support gui etc btw love see the studies which show that unix easy learn windows but might even agree that balance msw technically inferior some the competition this still does not prove your point you have another then perhaps incorrect range available applications base cost cost applications cost hardware multi platform support quality the after sales service availability books training materials support for visual and physical handicaps suitability for use mobile computing quality documentation you think that technical excellence the only factor when deciding indeed the primary factor you need think again
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	corrected microcal origin package uploaded cica recently uploaded cica the current version the working model microcal origin scientific and technical graphics and data analysis package for windows the working model only and puts promo message hardcopies but largely identical the full version saving origin files disabled but you can save ascii data sets produced with origin also says has expiration date sept try you may like currently ftp cica indiana edu the directory pub win uploads origin zip the file origin zip unfortunately incomplete sorry bout that include std disclaimer tom carter carter photon cem msu edu michigan state university carter msucem bitnet chemistry department
comp.os.ms-windows.misc	enchaced mode with scsi disk just removed ide drive and reformated two scsi disk use boot disk system that did run windows fine enhanced mode its with meg ram and adaptec with bios enabled system runs fine and runs windows standard mode fine but returns the dos prompt when trying run mode tried emmexclude and sysrombreakpoint what gives thanks advance hal views are own
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	com ports does anyone know what the standard port addresses are for com ports through there standard any sort please mail don read this group very often mark tomlinson mark garden equinox gen
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ide cable vacsc vax csun edu wrote just bought new ide hard drive for system with the one already had problem this system only had ide cable for one drive had buy cable with two drive connectors and consequently have switch cables the problem the new hard drive manual refers matching pin the cable with both pin the drive itself and pin the ide card but for the life cannot figure out how tell which way plug the cable align these most ide drives that have dealt with have had pin labeled the printed circuit board this sufficient determine which side which your ide drive does not have label then you can look for polarization notch the receptacle the connector the drive with the pins the receptacle center polarized that has one rectangular notch about wide positioned the center one side then you can identify pin follows look into the pins with the notch the top pin the top right all drives have seen this toward the power connector for which pin pin the controller well you can use the same criteria but look hard for the labelling any pin once you know which end pin are pins the oposite end then you are all set all you need keep the pin end connected the pin end you don even have look the cable itself just trace the pin side the cable through usually the pin the cable identified different color red usually but beware many cable makers are not very careful about this have seen cables with pin being the one marked red course with non polarized connectors this doesn matter you can plug the cable either way and you decide which side pin secondly the cable has like connector two ends and one between them figure one end goes the controler and then the other two into the drives does matter which plug into the master drive and which into the slave any help appreciated thanks doesn matter what gets plugged where but does matter how the drives are jumpered there will amongst other options two jumpers that you should concerned with both drives one jumper will select whether the drive the slave the master the master then second jumper selects whether not slave present you will have consult the docuementation that came with you drives you not have docuementation then just call the manufacturers hotline number fax number they have one this kind information routinely needed people just like yourself they will fax you complete info about the jumpers you don have convenient access fax machine then you can usually get voice help post the specific question this group probably won able help you good luck gordon lang
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	what you know about cornell systems the subject says all wondering anyone the net has had any experiences with cornell computer systems california was checking out their computer shopper and they seem have good balance between service price and hardware the question are they reliable mail responses would appreciated thanks adam ubvms buffalo edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	dfi handy scanner how talk have dfi handy scanner model plus and little bit software running under dos use like make more extensive use this device particular write driver for unix can anyone give description how talk this device connects the system via own interface card any info would help can too difficult talk thanks brian wallis tusc computer systems pty ltd
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	numbers ethernet cards tigger djohnson moose uvm edu wrote possible through either pin configuration through software programming change the numbers ethernet card thanks advance dave tigger djohnson moose uvm edu tiggers are wonderful things dave johnson think you mean the ethernet numbers the byte ethernet the unique electronic serial number esn assigned each ethernet board existence this physical layer concept the address higher layer protocol the analogy telephone service the address your phone number while the particular wire pair the cable the pole has some unknown you physical identification scheme number but answer your question assuming you indeed meant the ethernet number not supposed possible change the number course the manufacturer can always retro fit board but there could hardly reason ever that your question actually referring the address most definetly changable but strictly software gordon lang
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	themax vga opinions wondering anyone has any opinions about the themax svga card just purchased one due great price boasts million true colors with onboard you know anything about this card please respond via mail this group tends overwhelming times with posts thanks advance john anderson the views expressed are usually nebraska omaha own and occasionally someone omaha nebraska usa other than myself but they are internet flick cwis unomaha edu usually correct
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	video card different address article myzn pue austin ibm com lance hartmann austin ibm com lance hartmann writes article qmrdd umcc umcc umich edu jon umcc umcc umich edu jon zeeff writes like add second based video card system does anyone know company that sells card that can coexist with another one all really need color text one monitor and fast color graphics the other probably just configurable address would for what worth haven confirmed diamond tech rep told that all based video cards use port addresses and this true appears that you cannot use more than one card your system actually there based card the market that supports multiple adapters one system unfortunately bus only they may have isa version now from company called metheus the address and phone number metheus corp ogc science park compton beaverton aware this very high end card capable vram does not come cheap but have personally seen two these boards running dual screen windows lance hartmann lance hartmann austin ibm com ibmpa awdpa ibm com yes that percent sign network address all statements comments opinions etc herein reflect those the author and shall not misconstrued those ibm anyone else for that matter mark hall intergraph corporation huntsville mhall habu ingr com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	sale always scsi card have always scsi card for sale manuals software and cables make your best offer this gyro ucsd edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	mitsumi and pro article apr elroy edu elroy edu guillot writes article apr zip eecs umich edu grover emunix emich edu grover thomas writes just poke out the little pins the connector and then replace them the correct slots this reverisible you can unpoke easy you poke yep done this too the trick use tiny screwdriver and push down the latch each pin and then pull out the connector label each one first with tape you don get them confused after you pulled them out compare the pinout tables the mitsumi and soundblaster manuals get the correct orientation arlen martin att attme stcarm
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	old keyboards never die hello almost ashame ask this question really looks like faq but couldn find the answer anyway the original ibm key keyboard opinion still the best keyboard around function keys the right place left place firm click etc there any chance connect one these modern clone understand that the new keyboard has more functionality the typematic repeat rate programmable etc seams that the pins electrical specs the old and the new keyboard are however the same maybe the communication protocol different please answer mail also you can tell that absolutely impossible that case will bring the keyboard the museum obsolete technology thanks duco duco fijma tel university twente fax box internet fijma utwente enschede the netherlands ugly pictures this sig
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ide scsi dma and detach article apr julian uwo wlsmith valve heart rri uwo wayne smith writes article richk apr gozer grebyn com richk grebyn com richard krehbiel writes can anyone explain fairly simple terms why get might need scsi controler rather than ide will performance suffer that much for drive don have tape drive rom any help would appreciated when you got multi tasking you want increase performance increasing the amount overlapping you one way with dma bus mastering either these make possible for devices move their data into and out memory without interrupting the cpu the alternative for the cpu move the data there are several scsi interface cards that allow dma and bus mastering how you bus mastering the isa bus ide however defined the standard interface created for the ibm which requires the cpu move all the data bytes with dma talking isa bus here then you can only have dma channel active any one time presumably transferring data from single device even though you can have least devices scsi bus explain how all those devices can dma transfers through single scsi card the isa bus the same time think the scsi card doing the dma transfers not the disks the scsi card can dma transfers containing data from any the scsi devices attached when wants important feature scsi the ability detach device this frees the scsi bus for other devices this typically used multi tasking start transfers several devices while each device seeking the data the bus free for other commands and data transfers when the devices are ready transfer the data they can aquire the bus and send the data ide bus when you start transfer the bus busy until the disk has seeked the data and transfered this typically second lock out for other processes wanting the bus irrespective transfer time also still trying track down copy ibm reference book but from their technical manual page the fdd adapter buffered the bus and uses the system board direct memory access dma for record data transfers expect see something similar for the hdd adapter the lowly low density original fdd card used dma and the hdd controller doesn that makes real sense guy dawson hoskyns group plc guyd hoskyns tel hoskyns guyd austin ibm com tel ibm austin usa
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	monitors close power source this have new monitor which set approximately feet from where the power enters house fuse box this safe for the monitor will can the emf emitted the current eventually affect monitor how and the damage permanent would degaussing fix thanks tom catalino
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	datasave videostreamer few weeks ago saw the german magazine about called videostreamer this interface between parallel port and any video recorder for backing your data videotape the company datasave claims that can store minutes tape costs about usd think question does anybody use this product yes how many bytes really fit minutes tape sounds quite unbelievable however any comments the interface are appreciated please mail your replies directly will sum neccesary thanks advance gerhard gwesp cosy sbg
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	mitsumi and pro article apr elroy edu elroy edu guillot writes article apr zip eecs umich edu grover emunix emich edu grover thomas writes just poke out the little pins the connector and then replace them the correct slots this reverisible you can unpoke easy you poke well tried this method based responses from several people either klutz probable they have changed the connector ended having destroy the connector put heat shrink tubing the individual pins and then plug them into the connector the correct order works great this way this turned out just fine certainly sounded easy based other people experiences but attempts did not too well john john manning opinions expressed are own manning csc enet dec com not represent digital equip
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	considering the orchid vlb seeking comments very serious about the purchase that uses the orchid vlb mother board the system also has the vlb ide and fahrenheit video board haven seen heard any bad comments about this board does anyone out there have any comments good bad about this board considering this board primarily because orchid reputation and long standing the field thanks for any and all comments bob jones
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help promplem with panasonic printer folks have panasonic just inherited with documentation which giving problem that cant resolve the paper out light refuses out starts blink when ever turn the power which beeps does allow line with green light lit simultanously the red paper out light also remains lit but does not blink please not give any references manuals dont have any thanking you all very much advance sincerely dharmesh
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	bit dma failure system halted have mhz isa board with kbyte cache and megs ram just bought the new soundblaster and tried install the card the uses bit dma channel could select between channel the first card ever installed that uses bit dma transfer after tested the card the first time the computer crashed and got parity error system halted this happens either from dos also from windows seems that bit dma channels are not working properly they are there because testsb exe recocnize them and tests them until first access well does anybody know solution for this problem special test program for dma problems eliminated the problem temporaly using only bit dma channel but makes the system slow thanks for your help yours markus
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	parity error system halted anyone have any ideas you unfortunately failed mention the error occurs with the parity error checking enabled disabled assume you mean gives you parity error when enabled and not when disabled how high will the count the memory check boot before this error occurs does the system beep all what the pattern beeps the error could occuring cache memory not likely video memory well the simms the fact that you have ami bios not conclusive determining the board manufacturer either boards are made thousands small taiwanese companies among others that buy the name brand chips and put them together with some simm sockets make your board tend doubt your problem with your ide controller also anyway perhaps you answer those questions someone can help you out better mrb boltz vivaldi psu edu mrb psuvm psu edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	can anyone give jumper settings have rll hard drive and have just got another hard drive the controller machine can kind soul please mail tell how get jumper settings for that board really appreciate this thanks advance jerry look signature
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	trident drivers for win fast eddie felson jmarttila finabo abo wrote hello got old trident svga card but lacking suitable drivers for windows the drivers for the series seem incompatible does anyone have idea where get these drivers address for ftp site would nice thanks advance jouni jouni marttila kyl turku finland jmarttila abo jmarttila finabo abovax jmarttila jjmartti utu pgp key available via finger jmarttila abo you can find the drivers wuarchive wustl edu the msdos windows sub directory think the files are called tvgawin zip and tvgawin zip those are the latest drivers available far know tmc tmc spartan brocku
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ati build drivers good hofkin software org bob hofkin writes build causes exceptions when exit windows fact have had this happen all builds after which shipped with gateway system doing something wrong this problem commonly overlooked have never had exceptions with build drivers have scott linn scott hpcvccl com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	cpu temperature cpu activity article apr ucc montuno physics lino montuno writes this may very naive question but there any basis for the claim that cpu will get hotter when computationally intensive job running friend claims that there will little difference the temperature idle cpu and cpu running computationally intensive job first depends what idle cpu doing not sure about dos but many multitasking oss have loop like this loop there anything yes goto loop goto loop the cpu not doing any work but still processing instructions will also respond interupts lino montuno guy guy dawson hoskyns group plc guyd hoskyns tel hoskyns guyd austin ibm com tel ibm austin usa
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	micro solutions backpack not working properly hello all have problem with micro solutions backpack sometimes works sometimes doesnt will either start backup start tape format and about percent get error either saying the tape bad the backup format has aborted for unknown reason turn everything off and wait half hour works fine because the tape backup too warm has anyone had similar experiences thanks kevin
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	bbs read the bbs while back thats bbs may started for gateway did bbs start and did would you let know the newsgroup name please send information mail mail address joe west lds loral com thanks joe west
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	amd clones now legal wyman rtsg mot com mark wyman writes poe wharton upenn edu writes friend mine called the phone and told was wathcing cnn and saw report that the ruling prohibiting amd from selling their clones has been thrown out making legal for amd ship the yep this was the news great news for consumers bad news for intel their stock dropped quite chunk with the announcement scott linn scott hpcvccl com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	modems and noisy lines used have lot line noise problems with baud modem what was sudgested was put toriod transformer the line this easily done getting large toroid core from your local electronics shop toroid core ceramic metal donut and wind the telephone line through the center the core and out around the outside five six times this easy and cheap fix that does not have the hassels having use sofware fix hardware problem talk yah later mark mark zander sheridanc
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	bios fix for diamond hello world posts heard about all the bugs the dss and the drivers now hear that diamond ships bios replacements some people that fixes lot problems well new drivers can anyone tell how get mine thanks advance phil poe wharton upenn edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ide hds volker voecking voecking informatik muenchen wrote hello have problems combining two ide hard disks seagate and quantum lps single hard disk both are working fine but connecting them together controller doesn work questions are has anybody out there ever been succesful using such hard disks together and what jumper settings and bios settting did she use possible that controller the reason for troubles the only thing know about that ide harddisk controller how many harddisks can such controller control case only one thanks advance volker ide drives have jumpers them indicate master slave master then second jumper indicates slave present these must set correctly according each drive manufacturers spec ification the cmos setup almost positively not the problem probably not the controller ide controllers all support exactly two drives maximum check those jumpers gordon lang
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	cpu temperature cpu activity article austin ibm com guyd austin ibm com guy dawson writes article apr ucc montuno physics lino montuno writes this may very naive question but there any basis for the claim that cpu will get hotter when computationally intensive job running friend claims that there will little difference the temperature idle cpu and cpu running computationally intensive job first depends what idle cpu doing not sure about dos but many multitasking oss have loop like this loop there anything yes goto loop goto loop the cpu not doing any work but still processing instructions done some asic and digital design but not any cpu design would seem that the fpu not being used most the cache not being accessed the off chip buffers drivers are idle the multiplier isn multiplying the barrel shifters aren shifting microcode isn microcoding etc this means transistors aren switching which means less power dissipated cmos which means less heat from what understand the pentium shuts down those sections the cpu which aren being used order cut down heat power dennis lou but yossarian what everyone thought that way dlou ucsd edu then crazy think any other way backbone ucsd dlou dlou ucsd bitnet steve jobs and steve wozniak went high school
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	scsi ide more hard drives article apr news brandeis edu luoma binah brandeis edu writes has anyone successfully put both scsi and ide hard drives the same system would like know well since just bought seagate ide drive and want add computer four year old gateway which currently has seagate scsi drive the scsi controller such that the docs told not specify the cmos setup both hard drive settings are listed not installed and apparently the scsi controller works its wonders wondering this problem also remember how when helped cousin install his second ide drive had define master slave relationship for them need something similar here particularly interested having the scsi the boot drive same here any help would appreciated since intend install this drive asap like know what and what not before start thanks william barnes suranet operations wbarnes sura net voice fax disclaimer don speak for suranet and they don speak for
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	debugging possible hardware problems suspect the external cache but have real evidence for this suggestions about the cause the problem bad memory bad motherboard bad cache suggestions about how debug the problem turn off cache gcc and other big programs seemed crash about the time for gcc gave something like program got fatal signal and when doing anything past the complexity elvis kermit etc got kernel general protection faults least once session disabled cache suggested and bingo linux stable rock hasn given core dump kernel error yet does any one know why the cache would something like this aldy hernandz andrews edu programmers are paid the hour how you suppose the array initialized more programming pearls
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help installing second ide drive bill willis willisw willisw eng clemson edu wrote article darwin sura net wbarnes sura net bill barnes writes recently cousin got second internal ide drive seagate can look the model number important and been trying help him install got vested interest since machine busted and have use his until get mine fixed already has seagate ide again forget the model number but can find out anyway can seem get the bloody thing managed get one the other drive with the other disconnected but not both the same time whenever try the thing hangs during bootup never gets past the system test the ide controller instruction sheet says supports two drives think configured the cmos correctly the power plugged properly even learned about the master slave relationship that two hds are supposed have didn know pcs were into and think configured the jumpers properly the one the master the new one the slave deleted many many thanks advance this practically emergency have two papers this thing for monday help william barnes suranet operations wbarnes sura net voice fax disclaimer don speak for suranet and they don speak for been told our local computer guru that you can this unless you perform low level format your existing hard drive and set your system for two hard drives from the beginning took him his word and have not tried find out any more about because not going back everything just add another hdd anyone knows for sure what the scoop would like know also thanks advance also bill willis not low level format ide drive unless you have the executable for doing supplied the manufacturer these are available from bbs mail but the mail version costs nominal fee addition the master slave jumper ide drive there also another jumper indicate whether slave present get right the cabling not issue long pin goes pin goes pin twisting swapping ide cable sure pin all three components not make assumptions guesses are but assumptions are bad the cable and jumpers are correct and the cmos setup correct then you may have fdisk followed high level format have never personally found this necesary but perhaps there something gone wrong with the data the disks probably not but understand your predicament you will probably throw salt over your shoulders wear funny clothes and spooky sounding chant while dancing around the room someone said might help good luck gordon lang
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	motherboard advice needed does anyone have source for motherboards been calling around the local stores and everyone appears only stocking the motherboards how difficult modify motherboard run mhz simple replacing the system clock with slower part thanks peter
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	can have printers lan mac isis msstate edu mubashir cheema writes trying establish network lan here that could use different printers panasonic kxp for printing receipts and okidata for letters etc all possible this world this fundamental aspect novell business they wouldn where they are they didn live their novell does printing slogan run printers varying types off our novell network sure there are places with hundreds rtfm the capture command printcon pserver and the sections the windows manual which cover network printing you haven bought novell products yet rephrase your question and look for information about how well various competitors printing rich
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	cmos checksum error article uaoq ulowell ulowell edu mcook ulowell edu michael cook writes recently have been getting cmos checksum error when first turn computer doesn happen everytime turn nor can predict when going happen have ami bios and all the setting are lost for example the drive types and the password options however the date and time remain correct anyone knows what can causing this please let know most likely reason that your backup battery failing this battery maintains the contents the cmos memory when power turned off and the battery flakey then the contents the cmos will lost and the checksum will wrong along with most other the cmos data try replacing the battery however your doesn use battery but large capacitor power the cmos you should check see you can replace the capacitor with more normal lithium battery this isn possible make sure you leave your for half hour hour each day this will keep the capacitor charged opt for the battery change though also possible but unlikely that rogue problem even virus corrupting the cmos your battery seems okay get virus scanner and check out your system
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	gateway flash bios upgrade article apr utxvms utexas edu dcoleman utxvms utexas edu daniel coleman writes gateway has released new flash bios update for their local bus systems because such nice person uploaded them wuarchive wustl edu look for glb exe the msdos uploads section enjoy have several questions what gain with this new bios how can save copy old bios case want back how install the new bios like enjoy but need answers first thanks bill volz chevron petroleum technology earth model interpretation analysis division box habra phone fax
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help advice guf psuvm psu edu writes own clone which does all want except run game want buy the game says requires with game tech support says game will run but uses some digitized graphics which would make run really slow card game hoyles classic card games digitized graphics are photos artwork game fictional card players what can speed how this game would run short motherboard upgrade processor accelerator card mimicking can run mhz any advice would greatly appreciated upgrade would probably cost about about coprocessors accelerator cards would cost least that much the most feared merger gsbg uxa cso uiuc edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	question how setup video projector for vga asked design video aid system for teacher show their students how work their way round windows have seen people using video projector set and large size monitor thrir display for presentations told that there are three ways connect video projector composite rgb can anyone explain the different between the three and the likely cost for each them would also like know there are telnet kermit for windows please reply via amil well bulletin internet account sparc ncu edu tim chen
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	diamond stealth help hello have diamond stealth vram card the older version with the dip switches the back have two problems lost the manual have machine with network card and everything works fine until run windows when the network connection dies case important the network card smc arcnet bit compatable card address and ram base address also using irq believe there file the diamond bboard that explains how sort this out but with manual don know the bboard number you can please help with many the following possible send the diamond bbs number mail post the dip switch settings for the card fax them tell what doing wrong can magicly get everything working any help all would much appreciated thanks advance red
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	the ati ultra pro and bit windows drivers work article emx uucp reza magellan utexas edu alireza vali writes there just bought gateway system with meg ati ultra pro video card everything seems work fine except for the windows drivers for bit and and bit modes the fonts and icons start deteriorating after windows startup and within minutes use everything the screen totally unintelligible naturally called gateway tech support inquire about this the technician asked about the drivers and told him was version build told that the and bit drivers for this pure bull had the bit mode and working since the version before bld added the bit option flexpanel try getting the drivers from ftp cica indiana edu wuarchive the ati ultra pro simply not work this true simply amazed how could this the strange thing would have expected see some discussion here unless the subject has made the faq gateway local bus megs ram scsi rom ultrastor local bus scsi controller ati ultra pro local bus with vram dos windows mach drivers version build mine gateway megs ram ide ati gup installed upgrade myself bld drivers cannon lobby com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	soundblaster irq and port settings article shaman tek com andrew frip tek com andrew klossner wrote these lpt com disk controller are call devices there are devices that requires exclusive interrupt ownership disk controller and keyboard there are also devices that does not require exclusive ownership will share interrupt with another device lpt standard isa bus the one that almost all non laptop pcs use two separate interface cards cannot share interrupt this due screwup the bus design for example your soundblaster wants drive interrupt number then must hold certain bus wire all times depending whether not wants interrupt this precludes letting another card assert interrupt number when two more devices isa bus share interrupt because they implemented single card interesting would you care explain then how soundblaster pro card and printer card are sharing irq successfully assure you that they are both set irq and that have problem computer dtk ibm clone paul bartholomew pdb ipl jpl nasa gov
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	scsi ide more hard drives article apr news brandeis edu wbarnes sura net bill barnes writes has anyone successfully put both scsi and ide hard drives the same system would like know well since just bought seagate ide drive and want add computer four year old gateway which currently has seagate scsi drive the scsi controller such that the docs told not specify the cmos setup both hard drive settings are listed not installed and apparently the scsi controller works its wonders wondering this problem also remember how when helped cousin install his second ide drive had define master slave relationship for them need something similar here particularly interested having the scsi the boot drive same here any help would appreciated since intend install this drive asap like know what and what not before start thanks have been using both ide mfm and scsi drives for years have ide and scsi one system and the other with ide scsi disk and scsi cdrom currently using always scsi card but also have future domain western digital scsi card and work with adaptic before recall all these cards can support boot and floppy drive however use with other controller ide mfm the boot drive has the ide mfm you can not boot from the scsi you have other controller the system you guys only have drives ide scsi just set the ide your cmos setup make sure you can boot from then set the scsi controller irq dma etc set the scsi drive just plug and play for all the cards seen far only you have more than drives then you need driver for the third drive and you have more question email will try answer good luck william
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	the article usenet ins cwru edu rrn cwru edu robert novitskey writes has anyone out there heard any performance stats the fabled was wondering what performance compared the and pentium would any info would helpful advertisement microtimes bay area mini computer shopper from ency systems fremont has graphic for the performance based mips power meter the raked about the got about and the got about tom tom barrett tdbear engineer tom barrett amd com amd pcd ben white austin don take take hold don leave chance tasmin archer views are own and may not the same the company origin
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	modem windows problems article apr magnus acs ohio state edu nstassen magnus acs ohio state edu nicki stassen lantz writes what weekend replaced motherboard upgraded dos windows and now experience lockups any windows application using the modem dxl cpu amd ami bios card with serial parallel and game ports generic cheapo ide controller two two internal packard bell modem mouse the mouse set com irq via jumper the board and parms the mouse driver the modem set com irq jumpers modem board addition think have disabled the second serial port the card since unused mouse works fine here the deal procomm dos version works fine through the modem procomm for windows cim compuserve for windows and terminal all lockup when try anything with the modem the screen just freezes sound comes from the modem nor any messages the screen getting real frustrated could the second port the card still enabled would this cause problem been through most the software routes beggining believe that maybe this hardware problem anybody been through similar experience anybody have any ideas could try please thanks advance stassen lantz ran into the same problem when upgraded from modem modem any time give the modem reset command atz while windows the computer locks give the atz command dos will work solution was not give the modem the atz command thru windows the procomm install process told the program have hayes compatible modem atz was not included the initialization string works fine called about this they didn have clue what the memory interupt conflict could the lockup accures using any windows comm program that gives the atz command
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	jumbo backup problems have been told several people that sony data cartridges don quite cut the jumbo tape drive lots bad blocks you using sony tape try switching something else like maybe mike
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	plus hardcard owners help there have problem here lost the software drivers and setup programs for hardcard can someone email the files let know plus development were they bought out quantum has bbs phone have hardcard thanks advance eric
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	math pro article innnr lynx unm edu teague mdc com chris teague writes which cpu will give the better performance math intensive programs faster for this you are using dos mag reviewed bunch and and the was faster the review was the last month two thanks advance chris teague guy guy dawson hoskyns group plc guyd hoskyns tel hoskyns guyd austin ibm com tel ibm austin usa
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	gateway flash bios upgrade article lhdsy lahabra chevron com hwrvo kato lahabra chevron com volz writes article apr utxvms utexas edu dcoleman utxvms utexas edu daniel coleman writes gateway has released new flash bios update for their local bus systems because such nice person uploaded them wuarchive wustl edu look for glb exe the msdos uploads section enjoy have several questions what gain with this new bios how can save copy old bios case want back how install the new bios like enjoy but need answers first fixes some problems with microprose games after leaving iii would vain try find floppy drive this has been fixed don know what other corrections were made comes with image the original case things don work download glb exe format bootable floppy disk and don put config sys autoexec bat run the self extracting archive all the files explode the disk run the file fsh exe should self explanatory from there dan was feeling extraordinarily generous once again uploaded the file ftp cica indiana too daniel matthew coleman internet dcoleman utxvms utexas edu dcoleman ccwf utexas edu the university texas austin decnet utxvms dcoleman electrical computer engineering bitnet dcoleman utxvms bitnet
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	hardware for image processing are doing research about passive dynamic vision guided vehicle completed the first theoric part have make the effective realization this vehicle need the necessary hardware for image acquisition from videocamera and for their subsequent elaboration tipically edge detection ask for informations about available products the market for this purpose real time frames second hence need frame grabber cards and dsp cards for sun platform are also very interested receiving comments and suggestions from users these cards especially about programming tools furthermore are looking for the same kind informations about digital controlled pan tilt devices thanks advance best regards enrico fedrigo fedro paola dei unipd
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	conflict controller grafic card upgraded old with local bus motherboard two month ago and with bought controller card local bus and grafic card diamond stealth vlb but when try put new grafic card and new controller together system don want boot stop after controller card checking have try change ami bios setup but nothing works just one thing when disable rom bios adress controller card system one more step checking all system and cache memory but nothing more thanks for answer chrobert
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	experience buying from computers planning buy computer and like ads can you tell anything about the company and their computers also anyone has company they would prefer please let know thanks carlisle thacker miami
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	dos have clone with dtc esdi controller and toshiba mbyte drive since installing dos when tried install software from disks when mount the second third fourth disks dos doesn recognize that have changed floppies dir see the contents the previous diskette the only way get dos recognize that diskettes have changed label and then not label them buying dos has been colossal mistake dos was stable and worked well with equipment have superstor pro and desqview with qemm manifest etc there aren any features dos that using guess should roll back dos but wary what will happen when besides like fool don have dos bootable disk anymore made the same mistakes caution users not make like sheep joined the crowd flocking dos baaa baaad system administrator phillip culver silicon graphics inc mtn view
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	achieve multi card jumpers needed need the jumper settings for the achieve card usually found affecting video card and forcing the machine into col mode any help the ghoul hath spoken small obscure world somewhere the middle nowhere particular nowhere that that could ever found since protected vast field unprobability which only six men this galaxy have key was raining
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	wanted floppy controller that can handle multiple floppies need duplicate bunch floppy disks and ideally would like able keep floppies busy simultaneously single yes know that services this exist know that standard isa bus floppy controllers can only have one drive active time know that some controllers are available that can handle floppies with serialized access know that microchannel machines can keep more than one floppy active simultaneously but does anyone have controller for isa bus that can simultaneously keep floppies going how about for eisa machine the limitation software limitation can work around that using new used interested orville orville weyrich weyrich computer consulting certified data processor pob scottsdale certified systems professional voice certified computer programmer internet orville weyrich com freedom without responsibility uucp uunet weyrich orville
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ibm switches have old ibm motherboard which has two banks dip switches eight switches per bank need know which switch required install hard disk does anyone have any archived documentation that would help thanks jim jimd cae prds cdx mot com jim duda email ljd email mot com motorola codex jimd cae prds cdx mot com voice
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	mitsumi and pro article apr zip eecs umich edu grover emunix emich edu grover thomas writes just poke out the little pins the connector and then replace them the correct slots this reverisible you can unpoke easy you poke regards guillot houston texas usa don believe coffee
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	internet servers for university our university wanting buy couple servers provide email students and faculty two servers are being lokked for one provide news service and one mail service from proposed internet connection are there any foreseable problems with this proposed set provided that ihets providing ethernet line from cisco router into our network mhz smc elite eisa nic dual duplexed scsi with parts and labor everything but the hard drives running univel unix for application servers will run mail campus wide novell network access these hopefully there any other aspect should looking which nic use this enough disk space etc any help would greatly appreciated christopher meyers uunet meyers evansville edu university evansville academic computing technician let not and say did
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	cryix dlc cpu all netters last post that concerning about the cyrix dlc cpu said the benchmark program comptest stated there bug cyrix cpus this not true and must apologize the author comptest the actual program that gives this report prot virus detection and removal program the report stated there bug the slc but not dlc sorry sorry sorry desmond lut
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ati build drivers good build causes exceptions when exit windows fact have had this happen all builds after which shipped with gateway system doing something wrong this problem commonly overlooked bob hofkin
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	numbers ethernet cards possible through either pin configuration through software programming change the numbers ethernet card thanks advance dave tigger djohnson moose uvm edu tiggers are wonderful things dave johnson
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	scsi and ide what the difference stupid question from new ibm user going selling mac and getting gateway what the difference between ide and scsi the comes with western digital ide drive asked how much more for the seagate scsi drive the guy asked why are you going with scsi was lost for answer just said know seagate better company from satisfaction point view are scsi drives faster than ide not buying for another months but this question that has bugged for while tom
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	feature connector vga cards would someone please post email the feature connector pin assignments this sometimes referred the aux video connector some documentation thanks astrachan austlcm sps mot com paul astrachan motorola telecom astrachan austlcm sps mot com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	lost com help have clone and internal modem set com worked fine until upgraded dos and the same time reloaded windows now the system can find com msd says com and three four comm programs say hardware not present some similar error message procomm however finds the modem problem and works fine curiouser and curiouser any hints help thanks mike mwvm mitre org these are opinions only
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	can set com article mtc fnnews fnal gov uchima fncrdh fnal gov mike uchima writes also having problem with com system have gateway system with the ati ultrapro video card identical the system mentioned the original posting except mhz instead for some reason the system refuses recognize com for example configure the board motherboard com ports for com com everything fine configure them for com com com works but com not recoznized the diagnostics shipped with the system the msd utility windows all act the port isn there not irq conflict because can swap the irqs for com and com and com still works and com still doesn actually noticed this problem when trying install additional ports boca high speed card the behavior with the boca card was exactly the same would work com com com but not com this has the smell port conflict but can imagine with what there are other expansion cards installed the machine other than the video card and gateway would have pretty stupid have the board com conflict with something else the motherboard has anybody else had this problem ran into this about six months ago system megs ram meg ati gup vlb seems the problem that the ati graphics ultra pro card consumes the com port for some reason only com are available believe this documented somewhere the system manuals but can recall where dave peterschmidt
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	jumper settings for ungermann bass pcnic ethernet card does anybody have data sheet handly for the above mentioned card bought one sans manual local surplus shop and want try out with the crywyr packet driver suite the irq and interface select jumpers are pretty straightforward but don grok the settings also labelled through could somebody tell which settings these four jumpers correspond what addresses there anything else about this card should know before plug play dave platt voice domain dplatt ntg com uucp netcomsv ntg dplatt usnail new technologies group inc embarcardero way palo alto
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	cmos checksum error recently have been getting cmos checksum error when first turn computer doesn happen everytime turn nor can predict when going happen have ami bios and all the setting are lost for example the drive types and the password options however the date and time remain correct anyone knows what can causing this please let know thank you mike
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	power supply fan makes awful din what all late computer power supply fan has begun make lot noise what can about this had get new power supply get new case where good place selling good tower cases and know there are couple dozen listed the computer shopper but was looking for personal experiences and recommendations divya live long and then die slow and horrible death what confucius wanted say
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	math pro which cpu will give the better performance math intensive programs thanks advance chris teague
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	modem problem dialtone have isa compatible insight with infotel internal fax data modem with quicklinkii for windows when first put the modem pulled phone out the jack another room and ran phone line extension surge protector and then computer the modem worked fine then split the line from the jack the other room ran the line into room into the surge protector and computer then got regular phone and plugged that into the phone jack the modem now when try use the modem quicklinkii says dialtone the phone plugged into the back the computer works fine tried unplugging the phone but still dice that the phone line was split too many times don understand how this could problem since the phone worked fine please note none the software hardware parameters were changed only the phone line itself new modem faulty what can david thomas dudek pwxs ubvms bitnet the cybard state university dudek sun acsu buffalo edu new york music the food love buffalo play shakespeare
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	need spec miniscribe hard drive need info regarding miniscribe half height drive there sticker with the following model hda pcba unique tda but the sticker the biggest chip the mfm interface has this model pcba tda fxx what the spec the drive cyl heads etc how fast this drive can use rll drive also have scsi interface that seems match all the connectors for this drive has this description model pcba tda axx can replace the mfm interface the scsi interface and use the drive scsi drive what would the drive size there set jumpers the scsi interface with sel besides what the use could someone also send specs for seagate full height drive mail zhang whbws ornl gov thanks
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how null modem cable kevin kimmell computer science german undergrad kimmell vax cns muskingum edu wrote interrested the extrodinarily simple concept the null modem cable actually have idea don count that last statement what asking what pins does use what are specifications just want solder one myself instead buying one don even know what port used help please kimmell vax cns muskingum edu kevin intending use the cable for transfers via lap link telix ideas and info gladly accepted not have specific knowledge lap link telix but recommendation for any package follow each one instructions for making the null modem cable the reason that each one may different since there isn really standard for communications the following tutorial wrote that will give you understanding about and null modems but you should still check your software will eplain couple details commumications specification for communicating between computer and modem actually can between any end system and any communications hardware the terminology used data terminal equipment dte and data communications equipment dce spells out the voltage levels the connector type the pinouts and the signal protocols the connector but ibm has set alternative standard the primary signals are transmit data recieve data and signal ground there are other signals that provide control between the dte and the dce for example the dte announces that powered and ready participate communications via the data terminal ready dtr signal dtr output the dte and input the dce similarly the dce announces that ready participate communications via the data set ready dsr signal dsr input the dte and output the dce that five signals there are only four more interest the request send rts signal output from the dte and input the dce that used ask the dce permission send data the dce agrees sends via the clear send cts signal for completeness the cts input the dte and output from the dce the other two signals interest are ring indicator and data carrier detect dcd these are both inputs the dte and outputs from the dce just what you would expect signal the dte saying that someone attempting establish connection the dce this rather specific the modem telephone line setup dcd way for the dce announce that the connection has been established the local dce talking some remote dce there that there are many other signals defined but they are obsolete have explained the nine signals that are the pinouts are follows name dtr dsr dcd rts cts now address your problem hand when you connect dte dte there dce pair the middle and therefore the signal definitions don work out quite right there dce assert the cts dsr dcd the common thing not use these signals all and also forget about the dtr and rts outputs well this done you simply make null modem cable that passes through and crosses and pin one end connects pin the other end etc the problem with this solution that that wants send data has way knowing the other ready would have just send the data and hope got through therefore better null modem would include the dtr dsr pair crossed particular point confusion the software area just because you run the wires does not mean that the soft ware will use them you are using the built bios control the serial port then the bios dictates what wires you need and how they are used but you have comm package such brooklyn bridge lap link telix then those packages dictate the cabling requirements the only thing you can guess reliably the and the dtr dsr also fairly common there one more issue that needs addressed here and that flow control the scenerio the dce are responsible for flow control and assumed that the dce couldn possible over run the dte this mean that long the dte has its dtr line asserted the dce will send data without requesting permission first note the contrast the other direction data flow the dte must request permission asserting the rts line and must wait for the cts signal before can send and now the dte dte scenerio the question you need flow control the answser usually but how for non binary communications one common technique xon xoff which implemented software wires are dedicated flow control the and carry the xon and xoff commands this type flow control can used addition hardware flow control but the problem that you can send binary data because your data might include the xon xoff codes and cause erroneous conrol signals work around have the software insert and extract escape codes but the hardware flow control prefered the problem with hard ware flow control that there standard there are lots ways and bet they have all been tried one cornerstone all the methods use the rts cts for one direction but beyond that anything fair game again you must look you comm package for cabling requirements but bet you find that one cable wired properly could work with all the packages long they are the same vintage the way familiar with one package that uses rts cts and dtr dsr for flow control the rts request send and the dtr ready recieve the cts the clear send and the dsr the request recieve this does not mean differnt cable just software the clincher all this cabling stuff that common have the uart directly controlled the cts signal which means that the cts must present even you are not support ing software for these cases you will find cables that short the rts the cts the same end perhaps the dtr the cts other possible shorting might done just because the software expects certain signals that you don have don feel like providing because would mean additional wires specifically talking about the dsr shorting the dtr the dsr not good idea general but you may find cables like this bad idea because defeats the whole purpose one more gotcha signal the dcd some software including the bios expects see the dcd before will work this signal sometimes gets shorted with the dtr but favorite null modem has the rts and cts shorted each end but the rts also connected through the other end and connected dcd and course the dtr dsr are crossed are the and course the must pass through this null modem works with most software the flow control any can use the rts dcd with the dtr dsr your comm package does not specify the cable required for connection then suggest you use this one dtr dsr dsr dtr dcd rts rts dcd cts cts gordon lang
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	netware server and wayne mcdougall had the unmitigated gall say this the software netware level and can see burnt the screen sft netware level however configure netware for level mirrored duplexed disks requires second disk yes yes mirroring requires controller that capable writing two disks once duplexing which the preferred way mirroring uses two controller cards and two disk drives duplexing requires special card and two identical disk drives most cases duplexing can sometimes pulled off with slightly different drives controllers long the sizes are the same how the novell server normally configured the configuration completely the user can install sft netware level level this what causing serialization error you only have one disk then you can use level sft however the osobj disk has serial number and this disk for different version netware then you would get serialization error make sure that this disk actually belongs the rest the set floppies the netware installation set the novell server normally equipped with two hard drives one which has failed two drives could either two netware volumes sft one volume mirrored using sft impossible tell with the network being down would this mean can not install the network software because will not serialized for this hardware with failed drive try disconnecting the failed drive using standard disk controller and installing the software one volume under sft the software will install and the one disk functional then should able work this configuration what else can cause serialization error see the comment concerning the serial number the osobj installation floppy what happens the keycard fails what the keycard attached line noise provided south central bell blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	date stuck john bongiovanni had the unmitigated gall say this suddenly the date longer rolls over the time reasonably accurate allways but have change the date hand every morning this involves exiting the menu system get dos did once hear that order for the date advance something like clock has make get date system call apparently the clock hardware interrupt and bios don this date advance automatically the get date call notices that midnight reset flag has been set and then then advances the date when program uses dos call get the system resets the flag that tells the bios that has passed midnight then uses this flag increment the date the menu does call the system get the time before midnight before the bios sees the midnight flag then bios will not know that the day passed and the date will not get updated might have some dos and bios mixed darned cold messed brains but this has been well documented problem for years don know workaround hope this helps two most common elements the universe hydrogen stupidity blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ibm link imagewriter larry henson had the unmitigated gall say this hello trying hook apple imagewriter ibm clone seem have problem configuring lpt port accept this how can you adjust baud parity etc fit the system tried mode but did not work anyone can help post mail thanx lpt ports don recognize baud parity etc settings you might tring connect serial printer parallel port try this attach the serial port the printer serial port the use the mode command set the com port settings try mode com set the port parameters then use the mode command redirect the printer port lpt like this mode lpt com this should work good luck time flies like arrow fruit flies like banana blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	date stuck michael shapiro had the unmitigated gall say this the dos system date has twenty four hour clock and rollover bit when the system crosses midnight the rollover bit turned subsequent reads the time add one there change possible this information was current through dos not checked see whether applies later versions just small tidbit with the advent dos and later versions added small feature the dos time function program sets the dos clock via dos system services then dos will set the bios clock the same value this breaks the isolation between the two clocks that used ensure that errors the dos clock did not bleed over into the bios clock sometimes the microsoft people just don think fact mickey mouse wears gore wristwatch blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how put getter had the unmitigated gall say this this may dumb question but need put hard drive father either mfm rll ide know how hook but how tell the computer the geometry the drive you set the bios but doubt that how done most ide controllers are responsible for keeping track the drive geometry and getting the information the computer the controller may come with software update its board bios may designed work with particular drive seagate drives usually have special controllers for use and these are tailored the drive also you cannot low level format ide drive the low level format stored specal magnetic areas the disk surface called servos not like the electronic use the term that need higher recording bias than the drive recording heads can generate don try low level format ide drive people for the eating tasty animals blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	where can buy bios ikos had the unmitigated gall say this the market upgrade bios phoenix got new hard disk discovered bios doesn have type and would like know where can purchase one these things call phoenix they can put you line with replacement bios chips had this when upgraded emerson ide drive also you are installing ide drive and there bios setting that has total volume the same the ide drive volume try using the ide drive can usually respond variety different geometries long the setting that you use equal smaller than the drive actual size the controller will the necessary translation automatically most cases warning not use bios setting that even one byte larger than the actual size the drive smaller setting will not harm the drive but you will sorry you even one byte over drive damage will not result but headaches will backup not found bort etry anic blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	modems and noisy lines juan carlos leon had the unmitigated gall say this jcl just got problem have cheapo bps modem which use jcl connect university but get too much garbage the screen jcl know because the noise the line can actually hear jcl question will error correction protocol help eliminate jcl this garbage modem doesn have any these hardware can jcl software implemented protocol the trick there software version mnp available from mtez and will often connect with other modems that are mnp compatible but the modem that you are connecting doesn support mnp then won help error correcting modems will eliminate line noise but only there are error correcting modems both ends the conncetion the added soeed much worth the price error correcting modems baud bis modems are very reasonable and they are only about slower than the more expensive modems the market hard disk full maybe try this message section thing blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	gateway booting tim king had the unmitigated gall say this accidentally discovered that have floppy from one particular box diskettets the drive when boot rather than getting the non system diskette message the machine hangs and the cmos gets overwritten luckily gateway sends print the standard just wild thought here but how about this there small boot program every formatted diskette whether not contains system files this small program that prints the non system disk error not dos this program tries transfer control bios location that nonstandard the gateway then could clear the bios don think that the bios overwritten there usually small routine clear the cmos area case invalid configuration prevents the machine from booting think that the boot code the fuji disks may inadvertantly call this routine just thought don hit moderator back topic swear blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	com ports mark had the unmitigated gall say this does anyone know what the standard port addresses are for com ports through there standard any sort there are standards for com ports above com while there are facto standards for com they are not guarenteed work the can use ports think but don know the specs good luck tried contain myself but escaped blue wave qwk the ozone hole bbs private bulletin board service full service nodes usrobotics bps gigs files skydive new orleans rime network mail hub usenet newsgroups please route all questions inquiries postmaster ozonehole com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	need help info hard drive terms all been installing new hard drive recently and have run into several terms that not sure about hard sectored soft sectored what the difference how know which use head skew cylinder skew understand that these are related performance how know what optimal drive esdi drive that makes difference discussing these terms any info help greatly appreciated david carlson ucunix san edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	more than type controller possible put more than controller this mean different types rll and mfm how you access the drives the cmos setup they just show configured you have low level writes the controller example put rll controller with drives machine put mfm controller and more drives connected now have drives with controllers different types also can you put controllers the same type into and again how you access them was asked this question and never tried anyone has done this and can supply with info would very pleased thanx advance for any info philip spagnolli actor telerama pgh aliases actor mentor poet relfkin hobbies rpg writing computers acting reading philosophy mudding disclaimer since can only know own existance can offend one
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	isa vlb xor eisa advice wanted need some advice opinions regarding which would best suit needs want use this proposed beast for basically four things editing documents using wordperfect under dos creating graphs analyzing data using sigmaplot under dos editing playing with images using aldus photostyler running under windows these images can large say bits pixel using the xterminal running desqview and sun nfs talking our network sparcstation this where lot the images data come from and the most demanding these tasks read read read magazines performed benchmarks read this newsgroup and decided that nice system price performance would cache isa vlb meg ram ati graphics ultra pro meg ram local bus monitor com etherlink iii bit maxtor ide hard drive however the parts don fit our local retailer apparently put one these together only discover that the ati card wouldn run mhz surprise surprise actually after reading this group surprised that they even have mhz local bus running have choice now between basically the above system but with with isa and vlb with eisa and vlb and thus the non local bus version the ati card which better keeping mind that primarily interested the last two tasks any help would greatly appreciated need decide quickly any speedy help would appreciated even more btw have system now perform these tasks has the following configuration cache isa meg ram ati graphics ultra meg ram monitor smc ethercard bit maxtor ide hard drive quite happy with the ati card very fast once the data gets slow repainting images under photostyler that have moved off screen been uncovered there doesn seem enough raw cpu when running desqview its sluggish running the local window manager also many functions under photostyler take long time even when the images fit entirely ram there not enough memory the system desqview and meg smartdrive don leave much room for other apps photostyler will page disk with medium size images have performed number benchmarks the ethernet transfer rates this machine sustains only sec over ethernet while our sparcs sustain sec the same network going the bit version the smc card increases transfer rates sec still very slow especially when moving large images there such thing local bus ethernet card coming will make difference hoping and leaning towards the choice above for that reason also are there the horizon what about any information greatly appreciated ross mitchell imaging research lab rmitch irus rri uwo john robarts research institute box perth drive office london ontario canada home
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	western digital ide what are peoples opinions the above make hard drives seem have found really good bargain meg drive but thought check anyone had any comments say this make also bit novice with but experienced computer user when connecting and fitting this drive into one spare bays what extras will need cable for starters guess but what about brackets etc also think might have change some jumpers the drive and original connar meg one attaching the second drive seperate ide socket controler card what will need change yet again many thanks all that have answered the past and any that answer the future the artist has produced all this with own imagination and skill yes you the back stop laughing jat cov cch mirrir skippy jase slarts pick
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	can you put isa card into eisa slot howdy netlanders can you put isa card into eisa slot also can you put bit card isa slot please mail possible thanks ahead time david munoz munoz bcstec boeing com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	floppy only reads what wrote article netxcom netx com pdressne netxcom netx com peter dressner writes have gateway with floppy the drive only reads files wrote the floppy floppies that have been formatted and contain files from other machines are unreadable also floppies that were written this defective floppy drive long time ago are also unreadable this sounds like head alignment problem how does one about fixing are there alignment screws that you can adjust thanks advance for your responses peter friend mine had the same problem turned out that his floppy was set drive instead might help matt crowley just remember have known that deep down srg coventry cck inside you were just enough bastard worth liking
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	identify this actually from alistair scott afs tauon unimelb edu have come across old external hard disk and can find any specs for anywhere made nec yes tried tech support help and has model number apc and labelled expansion hard disk can anyone help out with figuring out what this beast the external connector looks like scsi plug and the date the drive chassis pretty old just want see what before deep six rip apart for bits thanks alistair afs tauon unimelb edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	seagate jumper schematics trying setup two seagate tech hard drives master and slave the same system what need such the jumper schematics the two hard drives that have two seagate need the jumpter setting schematics for these two harddrives thanx for you help advance ajp uxa cso uiuc edu ideal wife the woman who has ideal husband
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how hot should the cpu the temp over measured with type thermocouple and fluke dig thermometer this idle temp not doing lots bus not doing floating point not doing bit protected mode etc this micron computer without heatsink recently put heatsink fan the chip but might take the fan off makes horrible whine times and wonder what the vibration doing the pins the cpu etc rob scholten scholten epg nist gov
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	motherboard advice needed article jethro corp sun com lonewolf muse corp sun com peter pak writes does anyone have source for motherboards been calling around the local stores and everyone appears only stocking the motherboards how difficult modify motherboard run mhz simple replacing the system clock with slower part thanks peter know you work sun but that really reason not like fast computers suspect conspiracy here are you trying drag intel through the mud con something really wish you guys would make your own computers faster instead degrading others why don you straight for the top and run pentium mhz while you seriously though why the bleeding hell you want run mhz insert smiley where appropriate mail mail gunnarh sofus dhhalden snail mail gunnar horrigmo gunnarh fenris dhhalden oskleiva norway disclaimer the above posting may seem like insignificant rubbish first glance but you read between the lines you will surprised discover the annals burt bacharach world peace oxford advanced readers dictionary quantum physics made easy and easy use step step walkthrough how make time travelling device that actually works
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ide scsi wlsmith valve heart rri uwo wayne smith writes wayne amtower spacecoast org writes ide also uses dma techniques believe floppy controller also uses dma and most boards also use dma dma big deal and has nothing directly with scsi the simple style ide controller does not use dma the cpu performs the data transfer with string move instruction this requires that the cpu stop what had been doing and transfer the data only the smart drive controllers they ide scsi can transfer via dma these controllers tend cost the same wether they are ide scsi get the dma benefits ide must sacrifice price advantage the controller for example when rewinding formatting tape the command issued the controller and the bus released allow access other devices the bus this greatly increases productivity least something else while backing your hard drive which happens what doing while reading this group you can thank your software for that dos had few more brains could format floppies etc while you were doing something else the hardware will support but dos least won again this has nothing with scsi floppies aren the ide bus your arguement makes sense this isn ide issue the floppys have their own processor their controller board which handles all these commands the difference between ide and scsi that all scsi peripherials are intelligent they each have their own controller they depend the cpu fewer things for them ide drives needing processor transfer their data its long story but still use ide except for the cdrom which thanks scsi can move between both machines and when scsi better standardized and supported the ibm clone machines plan completely get rid ide and you stick with dos you wonder why you can multitask again ask why can unix type all the miraculous things with ide harddrive that can with single scsi hard drive the dettach callback mechanism alows the cpu make requests the devices the scsi bus and then dettach and about its business later when the device done issues callback say that the data has arrived the function has completed most scsi cards will also dma the data into memory without the interupting the cpu therefore allowing continue working uninterupted ide supports such concept dettach callback can you see how this would win any multitasking system david willmore willmore iastate edu death before dishonor better dead than greek david willmore ever noticed how much they look like orchids lovely
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how put many all drive controllers have their own bios board handle low level formatting the bios also allows you set the drive properly cylinders heads etc andy robinson psu edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	question about irq and irq have bit serial card with two ports each port has the option using irq also have two serial ports multi card and the ports can set irq from other posts read get the impression that irq the bit card the same irq the multi card right eric dittman texas instruments component test facility dittman skitzo dseg com disclaimer not even opinions found them the side the road
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	where can buy bios article ikosc netcom com ikos netcom com ikos writes the market upgrade bios phoenix got new hard disk discovered bios doesn have type and would like know where can purchase one these things can anybody help out this quest pick copy magazine byte and look the classifieds and small print ads the back there are handful shops that specialize bios upgrades mike schuster schuster panix com compuserve com schuster shell portal com genie mschuster
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how put article apr ultb isc rit edu rxg ultb isc rit edu getter writes this may dumb question but need put hard drive father either mfm rll ide know how hook but how tell the computer the geometry the drive you set the bios but doubt that how done thought might software with the controller card but the ide card for that saw didn come with any also how low level format once the computer assuming drive which needs formatting since there bios support for interface hard disks that support must come from bios extension rom the mfm rll hard disk controller usually the controller has rom based low level format program common jump address you can type from debug see and small table drive geometries knows about sometimes these are selectable using jumpers the card sometimes you can enter them manually the llf menu failing that you must use third party prep program like speedstor disk manager the like ide drives come formatted already and since the controller part the drive mechanism itself concerns about geometry are irrelevant plug and fdisk mike schuster schuster panix com compuserve com schuster shell portal com genie mschuster
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	rom drive help hello all recently acquired rom drive mitsumi mfg feb hey was free quite pleased with the performance but seems crash lot when use playcd exe that came with desqview thoughts this mainly happens when bbs running the background and load the program load the program doesn crash and start the disk stop the program and start the bbs its but otherwise have big problems they can only solved with cold boot anybody can mail help would eternally grateful unfortunately feed this group little unreliable would appreciate you could mail but all means post too because sure somebody else would like know cheers wes wes garland queen university terminal velocity kingston kingston ontario canada fidonet usenet access free jeff lab queensu school bis bps wes garland tvk gtm inc com home send email set full access account
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	bus hdd fdd controller ide hdd fdd controller article apr grebyn com richk grebyn com richard krehbiel writes article hpsgm sgp com taybh hpsgm sgp com beng hang tay writes buying quantum lps hardisk and deciding hdd fdd controller bit bus hdd fdd controller faster than bit ide hdd fdd controller card bus ide faster than isa ide the ide interface fundamentally nothing more than extension the isa bus and you hook bus work fast the slower the two meaning isa speed not true ide bus uses signals which has similar name and same meaning the counterpart isa bus but its ide bus signal timing doesn have same isa signal timing ide bus card has set jumpers set its transfer rate from sec sec the manufacturer might have correct these numbers milion byte sec and milion byte sec respectively you cannot transfer data rate sec the isa bus hear that the bus controller slower than ide controller the other hand wouldn expect slower richard krehbiel richk grebyn com will for until amigados for the comes along ken nakata apologize there are incorrect rude and impolite expressions this mail post they are not intended please consider that english second language for and don have full understanding certain words each nuance phrase thank you ken nakata cis student njit
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	upgrading the processor machines case anyone was wondering about upgrading their class machine without spending lot money looked into replacing the processor those machines and here are the facts understand them you have model model you can replace the chip with either cyrix dlc chip for which will increase your processing power about for normal fuctions and not all for math functions this chip will only run your original clock speed you have mhz machine the cyrix dlc will run mhz note windows does not use the math functions good upgrade you are running windows you can get kingston now platform for with mhz which will increase your normal processing power about you were running mhz originally but again will not increase the speed your math fuctions think that will continue run mhz even your original processor runs slower speed there also the kingston now platform for with mhz this might speed your math functions well but not sure you have model other machine with either non clock doubling runs either mhz then you can get intel overdrive chip which really chip and replace your chip with you should get about better preformance for both normal and math functions the mhz version the overdrive chip costs and the mhz version costs the replacement for the mhz chip espeacially good deal provides the math coprocessor which the does not have note that the speed ratings the overdrive chips are the maximum speed which they can run you have mhz then the overdrive chip will run mhz mhz externally and mhz internally there reason buy overdrive chip which rated faster then your machine you will not get faster performance you should able buy these chips from any the microchip merchants that advertise the back magazine week you might want shop around prices vary you need name phone number for source for particular chip mail and will respond with couple sources lawrence khoo khoo husc harvard edu lawrence khoo computer consultant khoo haavelmo harvard edu econ dept harvard
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	need info need find how program the faast scsi controller bit dma scsi controller for the isa bus can somebody point the direction some low level docs the net will have get hold the manufacturers who did actually make this anyway who will have the docs tia don ant the bios docs want know how attack this sucker from the ground level send own scsi commands out from hamish marson computer services university waikato hamish waikato fax computers are only disclaimer remember you heard here first human facts are stubborn but statistics are more pliable
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help second install considering adding system equipped with meg maxtor second maxtor meg assume this will not problem however remember reading somewhere that this you needed reformat your original drive this true why drive full and really don like the idea installing everything from floppy please mail post the group mike mike tancsa internet mdtancsa watarts uwaterloo waterloo ontario mike tancsa canrem com canada rosereader entered crs canada remote systems toronto ontario
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until several weeks ago none were devoted publishing cdpub has just been setup any case list not and ought not replacement for regular usenet newsgroups the reason for the division into three groups natural partition interest between the hardware and software topics and between the two main focal points software fulltext and multimedia publishing topics such cdrom cdi photo and other related formats would included well topics related cdrom publishing that are neither clearly hardware software related such books copyright issues and other legal matters packaging distribution could included the purvue comp publish cdrom software would any other nonhardware multimedia topic that relates some way cdrom publishing any format and appropriate the internet the main focus comp publish cdrom software would topics such index and retrieval software premastering software cdrom simulation software hypertext sgml scanning and imaging software data capture software data clean compression encryption etc relates publishing cdroms the main focus comp publish cdrom multimedia would software that aids the multimedia authoring and publishing process audio and video the main focus comp publish cdrom hardware would hardware that relates cdrom publishing well hardware for data capture such all sorts scanners and data capture hardware well information that publishers need know about the hardware that the intended enduser will utilize the hardware that will eventually play the published cdrom including networks for cdrom notes these groups are not used for topics such reviews questions relating already published cdroms reviews questions relating general purpose cdrom drives and the like requests for help installing cdrom drive and other general topics should directed other fora questions about cdroms mounted lans should directed bit listserv cdromlan charter proposed charter comp publish cdrom software the usenet newsgroup comp publish cdrom software will newsgroup for discussion the following example topics but not limited them index and retrieval software authoring software scanning and imaging software ocr and ocr cleanup hypertext sgml premastering and simulation cdrom software copyright and legal issues related publishing cdroms other nonhardware topics related cdrom publishing proposed charter comp publish cdrom hardware the usenet newsgroup comp publish cdrom hardware will newsgroup for discussion the following example topics but not limited them equipment data capture hardware scanners video and audio capture hardware networking hardware midi hardware photo hardware publishing systems cdi and dvi hardware compression and encryption hardware keyboarding other hardware publishing topics proposed charter comp publish cdrom multimedia the usenet newsgroup comp publish cdrom multimedia will newsgroup for discussion the following example topics but not limited them multimedia authoring software imaging software audio and midi software color control software video editing software audio editing software multimedia utilities useful for publishers integration text image audio and video compression and encryption multimedia multimedia copyright and related legal issues multimedia databases and hypertext other multimedia publishing topics henry manaster email manaster edu brooklyn disclaimer the above not necessarily opinion nor that anyone else
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help dip switch settings ast hot shot could someone please tell what the dip switches the back the ast hot shot accellerator card recently acquired the card and did not get any docs any information will appreciated rob robert bultman speed scientific school university louisville internet rmbult starbase spd louisville edu robert bultman speed scientific school university louisville internet rmbult starbase spd louisville edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	any body have more than meg ram leading edge have leading edge with megs ram that are the forms meg simms each simm has two chips they are manufactured samsung and are salesman told that the leading edge cpc motherboard has the extra parity bit built and reccomemnded use mac simms tried using megs pulled out mac these are chip simms but got too many windows protection faults and parity errors guess should use the same simms the ones have but can find any most the places have called carry only chip simms anybody knows where can get memory that good with computer you have any suggestions all please let know any help truly appreciated eric ebosco oracle com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	wincim baud had similar problems downloading using wincim discovered that disabled data compression modem works fine
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help with hicolor modes can any body tell where the most significant bit the total horizontal width hides out the tseng labs with bit dac trying use the mode under unix cant just call int have program which dumps the contents the card registers under dos but not sure trust for the extended registers the anyway the problem that this mode the horizontal total register index apparently set but index the displayed clocks set xef nonsense resonable value would there high bit and where also how does one set the video dot clock the appropriate frequency and what would appropriate frequency the documentation isn really very clear tseng txt from vgadoc zip from some ftp site about this card megavga card seems have tseng labs bios ver think works nicely under dos and very well under unix linux all the non hicolor modes great for running windows your monitor will take only just case please email the answer can read news very often thanks very much david
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	programming the beeper need able cause beep but without using any interrupt routines cannot use the bios believe that the pic might have something with but having troubles deciphering the information have figure out how program programming all this turbo that makes any diference all please can anyone help thanks nicola
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	monitors article pisw mcgill gerardis mcgill the gif emporium writes nec now also available the nec fge only difference accucolor any experiences opinions from people who have used the nec would appreciated since want get one right after exams are all done about week from now have and think great haven seen the nanao can compare but the image very sharp and the color contrast extremely good used other trinitron monitors sun color monitors which trinitron and think the least good perhaps brighter and has none these silly horizontal lines running across btw could wrong but thought that the fge slower well missing accucolor may not able handle the way the can cheers dan div neuroscience baylor college medicine baylor plaza houston tso cephalo neusc bcm tmc edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	speed led for gateway motherboard recently got tower case for gateway file server mostly because needed the extra drive bays and better power supply this case has led for the processor speed there place plug this the motherboard not there anyway hack something make work tia eric eric huppertz ejhupper ilstu edu hey these aren rules come think don have any rules beetlejuice
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	archive controler frederic pierre fred sobel strasbg wrote hello looking for supplier archive tape drive controlers european preferred who could provide card for old drive who knows where could find such beast thank you advance for your attention similarly looking for controllers for archive even the number contact archive whatever the company called would help gerry george anything good life either school management boston univ illegal immoral fattening internet ggeorge acs edu any item not the above three compu erve compuserve com categories causes cancer rats
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	modems and noisy lines apr gmt chris crayton chris crayton ozonehole com wrote there software version mnp available from mtez and will often connect with other modems that are mnp compatible but the modem that you are connecting doesn support mnp then won help error correcting modems will eliminate line noise but only there are error correcting modems both ends the conncetion the added soeed much worth the price error correcting modems baud bis modems are very reasonable and they are only about slower than the more expensive modems the market what mtez dealer repository any details penio penev internet penev venezia rockefeller edu disclaimer all oppinions are mine
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	cpu fans just got mhz system and considering getting fan for the cpu the processor when running too hot touch think this fairly good idea long ago when did some electronics training read somewhere that the regions within chip that define junctions gates etc slowly diffuse over time and this increases with temperature hence hot chip goes off spec sooner has anyone out there got cpu fan work for small oem offer both personal and professional system line our pro machines always have cpu cooling fan and units there more than type there are several manufacturers you have remove the cpu from its scoket install the fan sometimes depends the specific fan model all cpu fans derive their power from spare drive power lines all the ones seen many come with connector you don have have spare connector anyone had any trouble with cpu fans none does anyone have any evidence that cpu fans are complete waste money touch chip after its been running few minutes you won feel the fan waste how are these fans attached glue clips melted cheese depends the model many use clips make sure you use heat sink grease heat transfering tape you will have wasted your money roughly how much cooler will the cpu with fan opposed without advert read claims tough tell know the chip sheds lot heat slmr murphy was optimist your data backed via dlgqwk
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	laplink serial parallel cables serial cables there are only three output signals dtr and rts there are five inputs signals dsr dcd cts and there are many differnt null modem requiremts dictated the software the ibm bios requires asserts dtr and rts and then waits for both dsr and cts before sending when bios recieve call made asserts dtr and waits for dsr become true times out after while and returns with error dsr never becomes true requires cts true for sending and recieving most communications packages bypass this and replace with their own protocol the key that each comm package could very well have different requirements favorite cable works many cases short rts cts each end but also run rts through dcd the opposite end runs through and dtr runs through dsr from both dte and course goes through have never had trouble with this null modem even though have used with comm package that was expecting rts cts instead dcd the advantage this cable that also works with the ibm bios gordon lang
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	problems with toshiba cdrom imj cunixa columbia edu imad jureidini writes recently purchased the toshiba cdrom own adaptec scsi card and have far failed get the cdrom work under dos works very well under know that the drive not faulty config sys have aspi dos sys aspidisk sys aspicd sys autoexec bat have mscdex which came with dos mscdex seems find and install the drive drive but when switch that drive and try dir get error message telling the drive not ready something like that the cdrom locked too and the adaptec utilities don seem recognize that have cdrom that point the current adaptec drivers not support the toshiba you should get the corel scsi drivers which support this the method that used and works well corel phone number just satisfied user jonathan bayer intelligent software products inc winthrop jbayer ispi com edison
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	isa vlb xor eisa advice wanted thu apr gmt ross mitchell rmitch irus rri uwo wrote want use this proposed beast for basically four things editing documents using wordperfect under dos creating graphs analyzing data using sigmaplot under dos editing playing with images using aldus photostyler running under windows these images can large say bits pixel using the xterminal running desqview and sun nfs talking our network sparcstation this where lot the images data come from and the most demanding these tasks read read read magazines performed benchmarks read this newsgroup and decided that nice system price performance would cache isa vlb meg ram ati graphics ultra pro meg ram local bus monitor com etherlink iii bit maxtor ide hard drive however the parts don fit our local retailer apparently put one these together only discover that the ati card wouldn run mhz surprise surprise actually after reading this group surprised that they even have mhz local bus running have choice now between basically the above system but with with isa and vlb with eisa and vlb and thus the non local bus version the ati card which better keeping mind that primarily interested the last two tasks having mind the size the images opinion with vlb has much more bandwith that eisa which fact can utilized the craphics card have not made measures someone else may share experience that also the faster the operations that run off internal cache slightly slower off the external and about the same off memory advice the vlb quite happy with the ati card very fast once the data gets slow repainting images under photostyler that have moved off screen been uncovered there doesn seem enough raw cpu when running desqview its sluggish running the local window manager also many functions under photostyler take long time even when the images fit entirely ram there not enough memory the system desqview and meg smartdrive don leave much room for other apps photostyler will page disk with medium size images have you tried running photostyler without the cache need have paging and cache both well you might argue that the paging cached belief measurements that apps left with more memory will manage better than smartdrv exe sys have performed number benchmarks the ethernet transfer rates this machine sustains only sec over ethernet while our sparcs sustain sec the same network going the bit version the smc card increases transfer rates sec still very slow especially when moving large images there such thing local bus ethernet card coming will make difference hoping and leaning towards the choice above for that reason the bandwidth theoretical isa over which far from tried isa ide hard drive maxtor and got the same results regardless the isa bus speed mhz guess that just the card drivers combination lousy also are there the horizon what about the rumors are that any the most likely chip come out but note that ibm closest the technology will only sell whole motherboards you have upgrade the any information greatly appreciated just some view not much figures penio penev internet penev venezia rockefeller edu disclaimer all oppinions are mine
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ide scsi mon apr gmt wayne smith wlsmith valve heart rri uwo wrote article richk apr gozer grebyn com richk grebyn com richard krehbiel writes when you got multi tasking you want increase performance increasing the amount overlapping you one way with dma bus mastering either these make possible for devices move their data into and out memory without interrupting the cpu the alternative for the cpu move the data there are several scsi interface cards that allow dma and bus mastering how you bus mastering the isa bus earlier post noted through dma ide however defined the standard interface created for the ibm which requires the cpu move all the data bytes with dma talking isa bus here then you can only have dma channel active any one time presumably transferring data from single device even though you can have least devices scsi bus explain how all those devices can dma transfers through single scsi card the isa bus the same time any one time means imho single byte xfer have four sources dma requests ready the dma would service the one after the other the bandwidth for the four together lower than the isa dma bandwidth this will work note that the bus mastering here the priority mechanism the dma controller penio penev internet penev venezia rockefeller edu disclaimer all oppinions are mine
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	consumer warning midwest micro ohio thinking buying from midwest micro ohio think very carefully unless you are absolutely sure you won have any problems you may want trade elsewhere despite the fact that they answer the phone whoever and having great day they weren quite happy when wanted return modem that didn work expected the details ordered one their house brand infotel internal fax modems reality was twincom lightning fax that had paper sticker over the name given the poor reports the net about this modem would not have ordered had known this advance arrived time the documentation stated that would work and was preconfigured com providing that com was not use the same time for several reasons have serial card configured for com com the time installed the modem nothing was connected com although the modem appeared work during every connection would randomly break the connection and hang the phone after spending some time the phone with midwest tech support they suggested disabling the com port this appeared solve the disconnect problem but was unacceptable long term solution had have com and available even though they both would not use the same time the modem called back minutes prior their closing and waited voicemail hell listening repeated advertisements for midwest micro products was then promptly disconnected apparently was quiting time and they didn want bothered with callers that had been waiting the line called the next day and asked the customer diservice agent for rma number she promptly switched tech support rep that implied that was equipment fault and that wasn going give rma number suggested use some nonstandard irq settings solution was not happy with the modem should work originally configured conclusion not sure the modem would work basic system but clearly does not work multi port system like mine since time worth more than the aggravation the cost the modem gave local charitable organization with description problem and ordered practical peripherals from connection for more have solid external modem built company know will support their users and sold company based personal experience will treat right there problem should have known better
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	scsi and ide what the difference article apr dal tominatr dal writes stupid question from new ibm user going selling mac and getting gateway retching noises talk about out the frying pan and into the fire are scsi drives faster than ide pretty sure scsi faster along with lot better compatability alex jhereg iastate edu the universe damn sig
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	courier sportster note followups comp dcom modems for obvious reasons article usenet ins cwru edu cleveland freenet edu andy nicola writes previous article maccs mcmaster holly says what the difference between the robotics courier bis external and the sportster external see that the price sportster has dramatically dropped below but the price the courier remains above anyone with knowledge both these modems anyone that owns courier the courier their top the line product thus the higher price never taken real look the sportster line only couriers but from what gathered basically more entry level modem probably doesn meet the same specifications that the courier does not sure the sportster line fully dsp driven like the more recent courier modems are upgrades the future may issue again take all the above with grain salt never evaluated the sportster going bits and pieces that heard you want real answer post the question comp dcom modems and you find people who have worked with the sportster personally though were going look the courier modems buy the dual standard then get both hst and bis fact this exactly what did sitting here looking usr right now and now correct few very incorrect statements folks you want get reliable answers modem and uart questions post them comp dcom modems you post other groups you never know what you get the way answer you may very well get good answer you may get something like the one below least cdm someone posts complete and utter you see flurry folks correcting them avoid spreading faulty info the sportster has error control and bis data compression just does lower speeds too there absolutely nothing either ccitt recommendation bis that says that they can only operate modems that are running bis bis course currently only standardized for operation top its primary mode operation lapm but that about far that goes and just case there some confusion this bis are also supported the courier line unless you have really ancient one the difference with the courier that can run and only the hst mode take second look the original question previous article maccs mcmaster holly says what the difference between the robotics courier bis external see the bis there the question was not about the courier hst modem about the courier dual standard was about the courier bis modem the modem question does not support hst period therefore does not support the hst also not all courier hst courier dual standard modems support the version hst dual standard only supports hst there are even older models that only run hst this proprietary mode usr and will only connect another the same type unit achieve this speed hst usr proprietary modulation scheme but not talking about hst talking about bis bis most definitely not proprietary modulation scheme the sportster will asynchronous transmissions well synchronous the hst one way only hope you didn mean for these two sentences related some way first off and bis are both synchronous and asynchronous this part the ccitt recommendation part the standard isn feature unique the sportster just looked the appropriate chapter the courier manual second hst not one way only more correctly put asymmetrical modulation scheme meaning doesn work the same speed both directions hst operates one direction and has low speed back channel the other direction the high speed channel goes the direction the higher data flow this fine you logged say bbs and type one letter and get screens info back transfer files not using bimodem etc there course penalty for turnaround time when the high speed channel needs reverse directions and bis are both symmetrical meaning they transfer the full data rate both directions the same time third synchronous asynchronous has absolutely nothing with symmetrical asymmetrical they are two completely different topics the hst will upgradeable the fast spec when available again more correctly put some the courier line will upgradeable whatever fast called when complete you have the large footprint courier modems like you there was upgrade plan while back upgrade small footprint variety which could eventually upgraded support fast but the cost the two upgrades together pretty much put higher than just buying new modem later jim include std disclaimer ial internet jim ial mythical com graham ieee org icbm amateur radio ial zbb walton beach amtor selcal nial mail for information about kamterm host mode for kantronics tncs
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	modems and uarts article apr ncsu edu rjbaucom eos ncsu edu ryan jeffrey baucom writes have couple questions what uart and see response comp dcom modems all your answers are there btw next time you must cross post into other groups cross post instead posting multiple copies that way only one copy your article must transmitted the network and only one copy stored people disks except the case brain damaged news software jim include std disclaimer ial internet jim ial mythical com graham ieee org icbm amateur radio ial zbb walton beach amtor selcal nial mail for information about kamterm host mode for kantronics tncs
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how loopback connector made skcgoh tartarus uwa edu shaw goh writes uwovax uwo wrote need know the pins connect make loopback connector for serial port can build one the loopback connector used test the serial port thanks for any help steve too skcgoh tartarus uwa edu pin serial loopback plug you need connect the following pins pin pin pin pin pins and together pins and together pins and together pin pin that should note that lot these pins are redundant many implementations phil phil burg computer unit csiro division entomology australia life sexually transmitted disease with mortality rate
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	diamond stealth help article last newsgroups comp sys ibm hardware from redmond cmu edu redmond english subject diamond stealth help date wed apr hello have diamond stealth vram card the older version with the dip switches the back have two problems lost the manual have machine with network card and everything works fine until run windows when the network connection dies case important the network card smc arcnet bit compatable card address and ram base address also using irq shown press space for more quit for help believe there file the diamond bboard that explains how sort this out but with manual don know the bboard number you can please help with many the following possible send the diamond bbs number mail post the dip switch settings for the card fax them tell what doing wrong can magicly get everything working any help all would much appreciated thanks advance red end file press return quit date thu apr redmond cmu edu subject diamond stealth help diamond bbs baud baud voice fax sam press return continue gosh think just installed virus was called dos don copy that floppy burn just love windows crash
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	any info cyrix dru chip seems that there are lot questions regarding the cyrix compatible dlc and dru info comes directly from cyrix fast fax service and also from installing one these chips ibm model the dlc instruction set compatible cpu which fits into socket pin grid array pga the dlc currently available speeds the the and the they not have coprocessor board but any software query will return coproc present guess they emulate the coproc instructions math functions are the level without the actual coprocessor the internal cache the dlc cyrix literature claims hit rate informal tests show that the cache accounts for performance boost when enabled software overall performance boost from dlc about the benchmarks used were and qaplus dhrystones and whetstones the performance with the cache enabled about par with with external cpu cache which around the performance for the computer runs noticebly faster and dos with dblspace not complaining the company claims compatibility but didn test the dru not chip commonly thought the dru actually small daughterboard slightly larger than the which contains the logic manage the clock doubler this board plugs into the pga and the dlc plugs into this board guess the board doubles the frequency apparent the cpu and insert wait states when access the rest the system required there are info available from cyrix there anyway the dru available for and only double these clock rates and you get the mhz and the mhz dlcs cyrix planning the same thing for the dru then they need put out the mhz dlc first also tested dlc motherboard along with cyrix coprocessor with external cache performance were about faster than the but still significantly slower than actual intel imho the dlc great low price upgrade for people who can afford can install new motherboard definitely worth what paid for but you need performance the dlc won cut not sure about the dlc but think even matches the performance won beat any significant way the last time posted info about the dlc people sent quite bit mail asking where got here where got mine treasure chest peripherals they advertise the computer shopper the dlc kit was but liked the chip much that found the supplier and became dealer you are interested the chip mail and can fax mail you more info well aware the net policy against commercial use can post anymore info here however there are more questions regarding the dlc itself post what can jamesc someone asks you are god you say yes
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how hot should the cpu article last newsgroups comp sys ibm hardware from scholten epg nist gov robert scholten subject how hot should the cpu date wed apr the temp over measured with type thermocouple and fluke dig thermometer this idle temp not doing lots bus not doing floating point not doing bit protected mode etc this micron computer without heatsink recently put heatsink fan the chip but might take the fan off makes horrible whine times and wonder what the vibration doing the pins the cpu etc rob scholten scholten epg nist gov end file press return quit rob don worry about the whine the fan will away about weeks use mine did the vibration well that something thought about have tower case and the mounted vertically mounted the fan the case that just blows air the cpu and its heatsink instead work just like charm but the realy biggy think about after the whine goes away the fan the fan should stop burn out how would you ever know this before the cpu goes smoke thats what you should thinking about have the parts together but have not had the time assemble them yet but you build thermistor controlled circuit that will turn pesso speaker and led when the temp goes above the normal operating range there abouts cheep you use radio shack junk under think about that one for while sam gosh think just installed virus was called dos don copy that floppy burn just love windows crash
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	mit how get info and how install netters have seen some postings from mit this package out should full tcp fro the dos machines there anyone out there that using want connect dos machine machine tell what the dos machine should run sample config and autoexec would great and where can find nfs client understand that telnet and ftp client are part the package got the crynwr package drivers but that please point good source information you cannot help yourself regards name meuldijk address gildelaar teteringen fax holland mail volkert kub oooo oooo
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	upgrading the processor machines boy glad that didn start out with one thos computers started the upgrade operation out spending for amd dxl forex upgradable mother board from midwest micro when was time upgrade bought intel cpu for and was finished still don see why they ever made the cpu all its fast for both isa and and vesa boards some test results taken and cpu and some others tal upgrades specs turbo mode tests with fan heatsink kit isa bus tal mhz cpu mhz cpu speed mhz fpo mhz video chr and mhz amd mhz mhz mhz mhz mhz mhz with all tests the ran ice cold not even room temp did cpu isa bus tal mhz bus speed mhz speedstar video card amd dxl mhz inoperative amd dxl mhz chr amd dxl mhz chr amd dxl mhz chr amd dxl mhz not tested mhz chr mhz not tested mhz not tested mhz not tested mhz not tested mhz chr mhz chr mhz not tested mhz not tested mhz not tested mhz not tested mhz chr mhz not tested mhz not tested mhz not tested mhz chr mhz chr gosh think just installed virus was called dos don copy that floppy burn just love windows crash
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help led connectors for motherboard bought motherboard for documentation all everything appears work except having trouble getting few the led connectors working looked the manuals for other motherboards but the pin configuration doesn look anything like what this board does this pin arrangement look familiar anyone out there any hints where can find this information speaker keylock the board came with jumper vertically across these two pins can get the power keylock work across pins reset across pins and but would prefer not blow something further experimentation the date the board itself opti chips would really appreciate any help and thank you advance stassen lantz
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	diamond stealth help article usenet ins cwru edu cleveland freenet edu sam latonia writes article last newsgroups comp sys ibm hardware from redmond cmu edu redmond english subject diamond stealth help date wed apr hello have diamond stealth vram card the older version with the dip switches the back have two problems lost the manual have machine with network card and everything works fine until run windows when the network connection dies case important the network card smc arcnet bit compatable card address and ram base address also using irq remainder deleted don have copy the manual with right now but can offer the following the interim the card uses port addresses and which are not configurable these addresses incidentally were inadvertantly omitted from version the manual believe there dip that controls whether not enable irq for cga ega support lance hartmann lance hartmann austin ibm com ibmpa awdpa ibm com yes that percent sign network address all statements comments opinions etc herein reflect those the author and shall not misconstrued those ibm anyone else for that matter
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	vcpi memory standard just read article another group that mentions this have never heard the vcpi memory standard can someone explain what this thanks greg cisko
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	consumer warning midwest micro ohio must say that have been customer midwest micro for over years now and have been well taken care each purchase have had many friends that have bought that same modem and they have some experience with setting modems there have been problems them that know the fact that your time valuable for you spend the modem where you went wrong why you say because must tell you the yes say ppi modems that have had the past that was trying use bbs they all were junk and were replace times each ther point that just said forget and wanted money back ppi teck even said that they didn even repair them that they just strip the parts that are good and junk thr rest the modem think was more your fault than midwest mirco faulkt sam gosh think just installed virus was called dos don copy that floppy burn just love windows crash
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	bit box gateway dir article apr hpcvca com scott hpcvccl com scott linn writes while playing around with gateway local bus machine last night became apparent that windows didn give the option for bit access for virtual memory using permanent swap file and the disk drive the local bus interface this expected should investigating further why bit option appears thanks for any help scott linn scott hpcvccl com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	date stuck directory msdos sysutl filename type length date description clkdev zip keep dos time synch with battery clock chip index all files the wsmr simtel army mil dos collection available two formats directory msdos filedocs filename type description simibm zip comma delim list all msdos files descrip simlist zip text format list all msdos files descrip these files are updated every days see aaaread that directory for details simtel allows only nine anonymous ftp logins during weekday prime time mountain time gmt but otherwise simtel files are also available anonymous ftp from mirror sites oak oakland edu wuarchive wustl edu archive orst edu ftp net nic funet src doc nic switch archie nctuccca edu mail through the bitnet earn file servers uucp from uunet got srcs see uunet file uunet info archive help for details oak oakland edu the primary mirror site for wsmr simtel army mil all other mirrors except wuarchive and all listserv and trickle servers get their simtel files from oak instead simtel because much faster and allows more simultaneous ftp connections oak always sync with simtel because maintain addition duties simtel run oak mirror program whenever new files are added simtel msdos ann tacom emh army mil one way moderated mailing list which used the internet dos archive managers announce new additions their collections the announcements posted this mailing list are also posted usenet newsgroup comp archives msdos announce your host has usenet news please not subscribe msdos ann add yourself the mailing list send mail listserv tacom emh army mil with this command the body the message subscribe msdos ann subscribe something other than the account the mail coming from such local redistribution list then add that address the subscribe command for example subscribe local msdos ann subscribe local msdos ann your domain net msdos ann please not include signature because may confuse the server send mail with the word help the body the message get complete list commands and their syntax you later change your mind and wish unsubscribe send mail from the same address where you were when you subscribed send listserv tacom emh army mil with this command the body the message unsubscribe msdos ann this server only for mailing lists and information files will not send program files keith keith petersen maintainer the dos archive wsmr simtel army mil internet sdz tacom emh army mil sdz vela acs oakland edu uucp uunet umich vela sdz bitnet sdz oakland
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	consumer warning midwest micro ohio ran out time last reply this string and don know was sent not but have never heard anyone that had return something the grace peried that had problem all with midwest micro they may thought that you didn know what you were doing and suggested how correct the problem but sounded you didn give them much chance correct things all the fact that the ppi worked okay for you because setup more for the nothing user that can understand the instruction and the commands configure his her system when you find out things like the fact the the led that looks like you have connected another modem doesn realy say that but that only tells you that you have turned your modem think that these led are nothing more that just light hype the product just like bet someone took home few extra the last year for giving the ppi modems the magazine award the year not for the stash them that saw test bench could for hours end all the problems that found with the ppi modems but will try control myself will not even into the weeks took ppi credit card back for the modems after they had received them back will not into that one nor will into talking the parent from hayes just say hope you like your new modem and maybe someone that can understand how setup modem will get the one that you sent back maybe good friend mine hope gosh think just installed virus was called dos don copy that floppy burn just love windows crash
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	needed videotaped output need videotaped copy program please let know you can this marc dna ucs usl edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help eisa board configuration problems just bought new amiecu eisa motherboard and adaptec fast scsi controller wanted install the aha and did written the amiecu manual but the cfg utility told get newer version the adaptec configuration overlay file named adp ovr because the old one not compatible motherboard the adaptec driver utility version can you help please name frederic tschannen adress university fribourg iiuf misericorde fribourg switzerland mail tschannen cfruni bitnet
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	info port requested all during attempts find out how the harddisk controller works stumbled across port the normal controller ports are the range what does this port the only information have upto now about this port that write only port and the information you have write related the number heads the disks could somebody shed some light this and give the missing info thanks engelbert torremans huizen the netherlands email etorrem cbnewsj att com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	can set com article rajn cbnewsh att com bnc cbnewsh att com john siegel writes have been unable get com work diagnostic programs such msd show nothing installed think the software options are there known hardware conflict and workaround for this problemand rom system tower with ati video card the video card compatible which means uses the same addresses com john hood cthulhu just imagine jhood smoke marlboro
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	monitors nanao hello been following discussions monitors comp sys ibm hardware and noted that the nanao seems get very good reviews interested getting more information about nanao products well some others that may fit the bill would like monitor that can handle high resolutions like envisioning using this monitor amiga amiga graphics board like the retina and sun like the sparcstation basically want high resolution versital monitor this monitor need not large meets the brief requirements outlined above been very happy with suns and could probably cope with smaller home interested anyone has more details high quality sony and hitatchi monitors since they seem used sun fairly often and look pretty good least haven seem them brought very often are mag and viewsonic stuff like find out how can get ahold nanao what are the products their line what are the technical specs esp what scan freq and max resolutions can they handle what list and street cost avail from third party and where can get ahold them same info for sony and hitatchi thank you very much john navitsky johnn eskimo com exercise right today
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how can get com port working hello for months unsuccessfully attempted get either serial port working system various systems diagnostics msd norton tell there but anything hook can use have two serial ports the motherboard set internal fax modem for com the utility programs report com checked make sure all the irqs and addresses are correctly listed most manuals set missing something very basic where should from here any help even point the right direction would most appreciated david besonen davidb student umass edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	unix and dos talking qic tapes kdq quest uucp kevin quitt writes have system with scsi drive want get qic tape unit attach and then run software that will read and maybe even write unix tar tapes least just read stream and dump file take from there why this impossible isn use tar the box and gtak zip the dos box needs aspi driver ralf ralf bergs aachen university technology comp eng student snail uckeswagener str gummersbach fed rep germany phone answ mach note new zip july email rabe pool informatik rwth aachen
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	soundblaster irq and port settings article pdb kilimanjaro jpl nasa gov pdb ipl jpl nasa gov paul bartholomew writes when two more devices isa bus share interrupt because they implemented single card interesting would you care explain then how soundblaster pro card and printer card are sharing irq successfully assure you that they are both set irq and that have problem computer dtk ibm clone paul bartholomew pdb ipl jpl nasa gov you can configure devices for the same irq long you don use them simultaneously under dos least both lpt and just sit there until you tell them something you can configure soundblaster for irq you got ethernet card which hits that irq thousand times per second markus
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	cpu temperature cpu activity lino montuno montuno physics wrote this may very naive question but there any basis for the claim that cpu will get hotter when computationally intensive job running friend claims that there will little difference the temperature idle cpu and cpu running computationally intensive job lino montuno totally agree with your friend since when the cpu apparently idle still fact churning away millions instructions per second checking for keyboard input for instance the exception this for cpu used laptops where the cpu can enter idle state where just preserving its current status but doing absolutely nothing this case needs hardware interrupt get going again victor buttigieg mail victor man comms communications research group university manchester
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	switch settings for bondwell recently got hold old obsolete first thing trying with making work seems the switches the back have been toggled since last was used and not have the manual can anybody help identify this beast and mail the prober switch settings all know that bondwell made most likely can toggled between and mhz and looks like changes have been made any information would appreciated terje johansen trondheim college engineering norway conscience once became bad that died
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	always decent got working wimpy presently few months getting motherboard and probably toshiba cdrom and sbpro will need special drivers for getting all this work they exist basically this feasible should expect getting newer faster scsi card thanks bryan bryan welch amateur radio sfg internet europa vnet ibm com best bwelch scf nmsu edu everything will perish save love and music scots gaelic proverb disclaimer all opinion everything there
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	fooling check for existance keyboard with resistor have the following problem have use computer for special purposes that doesn have monitor and keyboard connected monitor isn program but keyboard can disable the keyboard from bios setup fact there setup spoke someone who said that had fooled the bios with simply using self made connector that connects two pins via resistor pity pity lost contact the person before getting more detail does anyone you experts can help thanks for any hints even vague ones thomas thomas opheys mutter beimer erich robert engel tanja opheys kirk fmi uni passau schildknecht klausi onkel franz rehlein franz stockbauer weg pichelsteiner walze else kling iffi passau germany ich liiiiiiebe euch echt
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help adding scsi drive article apr oracle oracle com ebosco oracle com eric bosco writes have computer with seagate ide drive and controler built into the motherboard want add scsi drive quantum prodrive formatted have documentation all and need your help understand here the process adding such drive could you please tell right buy scsi contoler which one know adaptec good but they are kind expensive are there any good boards the region want compatible with and unix possible also have seen the net that there are scsi and scsi drives this true does the adapter need the same the drive what type drive the quantum have tried others but think that the adaptec best value for money connect the drive the adapter via scsi cable and the power cable have worry about the power supply think have watts and all powering are two floppies and the seagate drive dont think you can mix the two types drive unless you have one the scsi ide cards that available you will have turn your ide off setup the bios recognize the drive the second drive what type drive this don have the numbers for this drive instructions for drive type are included with the controller with some may type matter what the disk with others may type had one controller that had tell the bios that hard disk was installed format and create partitions the drive use format fdisk think that ide drives can low level formatted the same with scsi how exactly does fdisk work have reduced msdos manual clone obliges and there mention fdisk ideally would want the drive partitioned two partitions and how this not low level format scsi unless you have the scsi low level format program first use fdisk set the partitions then use format well that seems all there anythiing forgetting any help really appreciated lost eric ebosco oracle com mark mark physchem
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	dont have harddisk type hello friend mine has commodore and put that machine second harddisk now has but the problem that the harddisk isn supported the bios alas there user type the setup the moment use type but there are getting bad blocks the harddisk question who knows solution this seen small program for this once the byte but haven been able find this would speedstor diskmanager work for this used these programs quite lot the days but don have these anymore seagate used ship diskmanager with each drive they sold help will greatly appreciated ronald schalk schalk uci kun
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	 what the difference between uart and uart thanks the loose cogs and sprockets the mind hamsters have natural habitat anymore wild hamsters does their world consists only plastic gym that call their home while they call hell funny how like watch others sweat while our butts take root the sofa don think hamsters sweat shave one and get back you robert bobby yung lehigh edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	fast what taking long why going take year for fast become standard are there technical problems work out just bureaucratic slowdown thanks the loose cogs and sprockets the mind hamsters have natural habitat anymore wild hamsters does their world consists only plastic gym that call their home while they call hell funny how like watch others sweat while our butts take root the sofa don think hamsters sweat shave one and get back you robert bobby yung lehigh edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	teac harddisk jumper setting please have bought new harddisk and want use with old teac harddisk unfortunataly not have any documentation with this harddisk could someone please tell how should set the jumpers for master slave thanks advance robert tenback rhtenbac ruu robert tenback rhtenbac ruu utrecht the netherlands
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	drdos msdos using drdos with superstor for nearly years now and wondering msdos could keep with last there anybody who tried out both what about this double disk had lots problems with sstor too how much memory you get got with emm and sstor what about the line help really great drdos any help appreciated
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	qic streamer software prolem using qic compatible streamer and really like but now terrible typo archive description drives mad ervery time there any software which can rename even better delete such archives any help really appreciated
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	diy and pcs interested building own can anyone recommend available book the subject and sources for parts alternatively can anyone recommend source for mhz again available just seen computer weekly that the march price for these has fallen sterling including monitor keyboard delivery and vat but can find single advert that would give system that price many thanks for your help
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	trakker backup those who own cms trakkers please email with your thoughts your machine and specifics such avg file access etc ben beng dorsai dorsai org
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	windows virtual memory got and using windows sometimes wondered why windows worked endlessly when was doing nothing execpt having lunch something like that then turned this virtual memory swapfile off and windows became quite faster but now having less memory free and still wondering why windows reading everything from virtual memory when the convertional sufficient any common sense explanation really appreciated
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	delayed write caches using norton cache which really nice but horrible incompatible some games won work streamer software won work with and windows doesn like all but when copying deleting lots small files only ncache really fast you see write file the fat must changed but write files the fat must changed only once there any cache program out there which smart enough the same and good enough run with all applications any help really appreciated
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	don buy from computers planning buy computer and like ads can you tell anything about the company and their computers also anyone has company they would prefer please let know yes they are nice ads and even better great prices but this all the outside the consumer sees this and orders little they know they will get poor service very poor when ordered hard drive from about months ago received the mail installed and discovered didn work sent back them and they said they send refund check took many many many phone calls and hate mail well threats lawsuit get back fact took two whole months calling and threatening every time call would put the run around until finally wound answering machine leave name and phone but didn even get called back once one pissed off customer and you don want get ripped off you want decent service not repeat not buy from this company the money saved not worth the ulcers you will get pass this word around your friends companies like this not deserve stay business let not give them out hard earned money discount micro systems powerhouse and gateway all have given excellent service and speed the past highly recommend them anyone mike bitz internet bitzm columbia dsu edu research and development bitzm dsuvax dsu edu dakota state university bitnet sdnet bitnet
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	fonts have friend with original laserjet the nameplate does not specify number but since the followed later one assumes that has his problem tax program which requires cpi font print the forms properly this unit came market versions the plus version supported dowloadable fonts you can guess which one friend has the plain not the plus the printer does though have slot and has small selction cartridges including cpi but none with cpi font can anyone suggest source for cartridge with cpi font alternatively upgrade the plus version available reasonable cost any suggestions would welcome thanks winqwk seattle rain festival jan dec canada remote systems toronto ontario
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	motherboard advice needed article jethro corp sun com lonewolf muse corp sun com peter pak writes does anyone have source for motherboards been calling around the local stores and everyone appears only stocking the motherboards how difficult modify motherboard run mhz simple replacing the system clock with slower part thanks peter this normally the case but make sure you get board with plug oscillator you will screw your warranty you start solder the board mark mark physchem
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help second install article apr dosgate mike tancsa mike tancsa canrem com writes considering adding system equipped with meg maxtor second maxtor meg assume this will not problem however remember reading somewhere that this you needed reformat your original drive this true why drive full and really don like the idea installing everything from floppy please mail post the group mike mike tancsa internet mdtancsa watarts uwaterloo waterloo ontario mike tancsa canrem com canada rosereader entered crs canada remote systems toronto ontario you not need reformat your old mark mark physchem
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	wincim baud article slc uucp kaw slc uucp workman writes had similar problems downloading using wincim discovered that disabled data compression modem works fine what string did you use this john anderson texas instruments inc internet anderson dseg com box compuserve plano fax
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	info the power ibm apple motorola begin repost ibm apple motorola ready unwrap powerpc processor the wraps will come off the powerpc processor this week motorola corp ibm and apple computer inc detail the results their yearlong effort this first series powerpc processors will bit processor with bit memory interface much like intel corp pentium with the capability performing many three instructions per clock cycle according sources familiar with the chip motorola expected release the chip volume year end two configurations running and mhz with performance and specint marks respectively sources said floating point performance for the volt processors will even better their specfp performance will and respectively the scaled down version the power chip developed ibm for its workstations will also include single buffered cache the chip with protocols support motorola bit multiprocessor bus built the chip which being designed initially support the micro channel architecture bus independent vendors could develop powerpc based systems using number different architectures including isa eisa sun microsystems inc bus design one source noted according sources familiar with the development effort motorola has been extremely successful developing the powerpc inexpensive architecture despite complex design made more than million transistors using micron technology initial chips are expected priced from only slightly higher than intel corp processors but could sold profitably for less than one source said end repost
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ide scsi david cat uucp dave write are talking about scsi device scsi controller are talking about scsi controller that had chip upgrade using the same chip that scsi controller board are talking about scsi device scsi controller here rewrite mac info sheet scsi section scsi only external device expansion interface common both mac and ibm allows the use any device hard drive printer scanner nubus card expansion mac plus only some monitors and rom normal asynchronous scsi mhz fast synchronous scsi mhz difference between these modes mainly the software drivers main problem there are lot external devices which are internal terminated which causes problems for more then two devises off the scsi port scsi chain supposed terminated only the begining and end any other set causes problems for either mac ibm scsi bit devices per scsi controller asynchronous ave and synchronous max transfers bit scsi often mistaken for fast version scsi see scsi for details scsi fully scsi compliant scsi mode devices per scsi controller bit scsi implimented very fast scsi since can run using scsi hardware and software drivers which limits devices which results sometimes being mistakenly consitered part scsi bit and bit scsi require different ports electronics and scsi software drivers from scsi which makes them more expensive than other scsi interfaces bit scsi seems run only synchronous mode hence term wide and fast scsi transfer speeds are with burst bit with burst bit and with burst bit bit scsi the biggest headache due the fact that the only scsi that know that can pump scsi speeds through scsi devices and software controlers its main implimentation the mac though you see adds for scsi maximum throughput for pcs since bit scsi does not need all the hardware including electonics and software bit and bit scsi the cheepest the scsi interfaces just pop out the scsi electornics and pop bit scsi electronics some people consider bit where scsi really starts used one them but average though put with theoretical burst not scsi but bit scsi rule thumb scsin and over then some type scsi bit scsi can use part scsi electronics which further reduces its cost compared and bit scsi
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	cpu fans article apr mfltd nmp mfltd nic percival writes just got mhz system and considering getting fan for the cpu the processor when running too hot touch think this fairly good idea long ago when did some electronics training read somewhere that the regions within chip that define junctions gates etc slowly diffuse over time and this increases with temperature hence hot chip goes off spec sooner has anyone out there got cpu fan there more than type you have remove the cpu from its scoket install the fan all cpu fans derive their power from spare drive power lines anyone had any trouble with cpu fans does anyone have any evidence that cpu fans are complete waste money how are these fans attached glue clips melted cheese roughly how much cooler will the cpu with fan opposed without advert read claims any info appreciated nic percival well that was piece cake micro focus newbury piece cake master radial slice baked ext confection coefficient relevance nmp mfltd key time zero who own fancard which slightly different beast long card that plugs into bit slot and contains two muffin fans requires extra cabling had that was experiencing some problems due heat the fancard made the system run cool enough that the problem longer appears supposed keep the internal temperature the range degrees fahrenheit according the maker tech advertisements the army used bunch these keep their pcs running desert storm can vouch for that however satisfied customer and have other connection with the maker the mail order house lyben hope this helps george george pandelios internet gjp sei cmu edu software engineering institute usenet sei gjp fifth avenue voice pittsburgh fax disclaimer these opinions are own and not reflect those the software engineering institute its sponsors customers clients affiliates carnegie mellon university fact any resemblence these opinions any individual living dead fictional real purely coincidental there
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	scsi and ide what the difference jhereg iastate edu writes article apr dal tominatr dal writes stupid question from new ibm user going selling mac and getting gateway retching noises talk about out the frying pan and into the fire what cpu does this use need the info fro thesis are scsi drives faster than ide pretty sure scsi faster along with lot better compatability half right scsi slower than ide maximum scsi bit has faster burst rate than ide quarda scsi and bit are much faster than ide cyclone june
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	monitors nanao article eskimo com johnn eskimo com john navitsky writes would like monitor that can handle high resolutions like envisioning using this monitor amiga amiga graphics board like the retina and sun like the sparcstation basically want high resolution versital monitor this monitor need not large meets the brief requirements outlined above been very happy with suns and could probably cope with smaller home interested anyone has more details high quality sony and hitatchi monitors since they seem used sun fairly often and look pretty good least haven seem them brought very often are mag and viewsonic give the new viewsonic good look have seen side side with old viewsonic mag nanao not the trinitron one and sony oem which does have trinitron tube the new viewsonic beat all them easily terms picture quality and think far superior the sun that staring now the place asks for would have bought had not just bought nanao week earlier keh cheng
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	modems and uarts article jester gun michael jester gun michael gerhards writes universal arithmetic receiver transmitter normally the older boards have uart board those chips generate irq for every char they received the uart has internal byte buffer with the right software installed generates irq every chars close universal asynchronous receiver transmitter necessary for higher throughput you ran dos you don need because dos runs only one task time and the whole cpu power could used for the transfer even you are running dos your cpu can handle the speed the interrupts you will still lose characters have one machine with external bps modem attached and can drive the serial port any faster than without losing characters michael michael jester gun michael gerhards preussenstrasse germany neuss voice rob robert schrack systems administrator ras ultb rit edu salesbook systems voice tobey village office park pittsford fax wrote the book sales force automation
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help wanted loading logitech scanman driver high memory having troubleloading logitech scanman driver latest version into high memory with the devicehigh command msdos gives invalid parameters message necessary change some the scanner driver parameters when loading high any help would appreciated ronel
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	any stb powergraph users out there that know about help trying view jpg files with mhz machine have stb powergraph graphics card with colors with meg ram have tried cview with windows extremely slow and dvpeg dvpeg doesn work even pick lot the modes that are supported powergraph says the manual doesn work when try view picture only buzzes anyone out there that can help give suggestions would really appreciate thanks
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	modems and noisy lines chris crayton chris crayton ozonehole com wrote jcl this garbage modem doesn have any these hardware can jcl software implemented protocol the trick there software version mnp available from mtez and will often connect with other modems that are mnp compatible but the modem that you there also program called odyssey modem directory the simtel archives that emulates mnp and others too think but these were what was interested was getting lot garbage when called one number and mnp cleared completely ordinary modem fortunately the remote end had mnp modem tried mnp too but seemed lock the computer your mileage may vary haymore byu edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	ide low level format article apr organpipe uug arizona edu shenx helium gas uug arizona edu xiangxin shen writes article news cso uiuc edu mandel romulus ehs uiuc edu hector mandel writes accidentally tried low level format western digital caviar drive there public domain shareware utility available that will allow fix thanks expert this but pretty sure there way recover this ide drive has mapping information written directly drives when you low level format the information itself gone well don think you can get back unless you send back western digital and ask them refurbish for you jim well have different story recount attempted low level format disk about year ago when understood error contacted they told that hadn hurt the drive and that should just run fdisk and format was fine also understand that western digital bbs may have some low level formatting routines specifically available for ide drives you probably need talk them and get the straight scoop george george pandelios internet gjp sei cmu edu software engineering institute usenet sei gjp fifth avenue voice pittsburgh fax disclaimer these opinions are own and not reflect those the software engineering institute its sponsors customers clients affiliates carnegie mellon university fact any resemblence these opinions any individual living dead fictional real purely coincidental there
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	delayed write caches andreas kuehnel idler berlin wrote using norton cache which really nice but horrible incompatible some games won work streamer software won work with and windows doesn like all but when copying deleting lots small files only that surprising haven seen any incompatibilities with mine version the version that came with upgrade had some problems but symantec fixed those and haven seen anything wrong since not running windoze the way haymore byu edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help adding scsi drive can coexist with ide article apr physchem mark physchem mark jackson writes article apr oracle oracle com ebosco oracle com eric bosco writes have computer with seagate ide drive and controler built into the motherboard want add scsi drive quantum prodrive formatted have documentation all and need your help understand here the process adding such drive could you please tell right buy scsi contoler which one know adaptec good but they are kind expensive are there any good boards the region want compatible with and unix possible also have seen the net that there are scsi and scsi drives this true does the adapter need the same the drive what type drive the quantum have tried others but think that the adaptec best value for money connect the drive the adapter via scsi cable and the power cable have worry about the power supply think have watts and all powering are two floppies and the seagate drive dont think you can mix the two types drive unless you have one the scsi ide cards that available you will have turn your ide off this true was under the impression that people the net had both scsi and ide working together well that seems all there anythiing forgetting any help really appreciated lost eric ebosco oracle com mark mark physchem
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help ide drive installation problems having trouble with installing second ide drive promise ide caching controller the first drive conner and works fine the second drive conner currently unjumpered the slave drive the problem the slave drive recognized but reported back having free space disabling cache has made effect what else should check for krispy
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	fast what taking long article apr lehigh edu lehigh edu robert yung writes why going take year for fast become standard are there technical problems work out just bureaucratic slowdown thanks don even get hyped they are still accepting submissions from the members for various proposals how implement the standard you don seem realize that while bis was just extension which took years pass implement and finally sell reasonable price fast requires all new technology not just faster dsp chips etc achieve its performance wait until next spring for the final ratification and modems coming shortly after that bing bing zinc cchem berkeley edu university california berkeley
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	dataport fax modem special for sale dataport internal fax modem the modem internal isa bit card just little longer than half card has bis for kbps data bps fax bis and mnp for error correction and data compression you can get error free links bps conventional phone line they will fall back any speed down bps and even disable compression and error correction necessary order connect with slower and older modems has buffered uart for better compatibility with multi tasking operating systems windows unix etc they use patented technology called optical line interface oli which reduces noise generated the modem assure the fastest and cleanest connection possible these modems come with lifetime warranty and free lifetime tech support and the call free too from they also include the lovely and talented quicklink for dos and the new quicklink for windows communications and fax software which will let you conveniently sent faxes from any dos windows application just printing the windows version will send faxes any font and can include graphics etc the dos version can fax graphics and limited set fonts believe that there are well any laser resident fonts asking for this modem plus utah tax this below the prices any other reputable manufacturer equivalent modem including zoom robotics etc and backed company that will never away this price will include delivery you live within miles downtown slc can also arrange shipping you can stop home pick you concerned about installing internal modem let know and can discuss arrangement for including installation you interested please let know this excellent modem excellent price they normally list for and retail for about installed one these last week and very nice you have questions about this has info number you can email and will attemp answer them the modem will the highest bidder get within the next week thanks pete
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	atari mono and vga arosborn oregon uoregon edu alan osborn writes article apr tdb max tdb max brante have anybody succeded converting atari monomchrome monitor into mono vga monitor please let know exactly how you did and what graphics card you used wish could help posted similar question about two weeks ago got response all asked locally friendly atari store was told that should possible but that they had idea how might done nor did they particularly care investigate here results far you have define the monitor lcd doesn really support analogue video input works but isn very linear the incoming sync pulses need inverting this best achieved with either cmos xor package transistor inverter you don know how don even contemplate only work standard vga mode having said that trying either find circuit which will act universal sync decoder want somethikng which basically only detects the leading sync pulse edge and doesn care about the polarity outputting the going pulses that the atari monitor requires there are reasons for doing this vga cards change their sync polarity depending which mode they herc emulation while mvga for example means don have put toggle switch the back the monitor order able run off both the atari and ibm currently have yes monitors sitting desk and want get that number down much possible being able use the atari monitor paper white vga will cut things down forget about atari colour can get down ultimately the best course action get multisync monitor but pressed for cash anyone else have wait alan brown dogbowl dogbox acme gen
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	trying find mail network desperately trying find based mail wide area network service the necessary network software establish one myself while aware there are various bbs and other similar services avalible like compuserve canada remote systems etc require fairly specific criteria approximate order importance they are the mail files news are read written locally and batched the network server continuous line connection note all users are remote and will use modems over conventional phone lines simple the users have for the system have very little computer knowledge have never heard unix and have very little interest learning essential that the client software completely pain free cheap would prefer not paying high connect fees established commercial network just can send large files between members the group hence addition would like the network server something small simple and inexpensive like there are only about people the group not huge network the capability for internet access for news mail internet style pwood math uwaterloo anyone knows system similar what describing even doesn sastisfy all criteria and don care where please please mail and tell about are not adverse making alterations existing system necessary thanks peter wood internet pwood math uwaterloo
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	gateway too high price asked for opinions yesterday gateway machines all the mail received indicated that they were solid reliable machines and technical support was very good well gateway faxed price sheet just now seems the higher side but then again maybe not dell price for similar price whole lot more this decent deal please advise via email mhz desktop case sram cache dram simms expandable and epson diskette drives western digital ide dtr local bus ide interface ati ultra pro bus with vram and bit drivers crystalscan color monitor phoenix bios clock calendar bit isa slots with bit vesa local bus slots parallel and serial ports intel overdrive ready upgradeable pentium technology key anykey programmable keyboard dos windows microsoft mouse diagsoft plus one excel word paradox project etc all for nec fgx minitor upgrade would cost more please advise thanks vasudev vasudev murthy any opinions expressed are strictly murthy asl nec com own and have nothing with advanced switching lab nec america inc walnut hill lane irving
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	gateway monitor problem again help once again someone else with gateway monitor problem anyone who can help please would much apprieciated thanks advance have local bus machine with the crystal scan inch monitor have meg loca memory the ati ultra pro the mach driver the newest release problem windows when use the mode get shadows down the sides the screens and very blurry type the corners the types the screen are all out focus gotten replacement video cards and replacement monitor none that has helped though could someone pleae help with this very frustruating problem thanks again josh smith live now make now always the most precious time reply now will never come again picard the inner light jlredd bach udel edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help ide drive installation problems article apr sunova ssc gov qwerty tunisia ssc gov kris schludermann writes having trouble with installing second ide drive promise ide caching controller the first drive conner and works fine the second drive conner currently unjumpered the slave drive the problem the slave drive recognized but reported back having free space disabling cache has made effect what else should check for krispy did you make the other drive master drive did you partition format
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	how add another ide with stacker can somebody tell step step how add ide kalok existing ide maxtor with stacker and dos know how set the jumpers the slave and the settings for heads wpcom sectors etc also know that have some cmos settings and fdisk the problem what letter will the cmos give the new drive what will happen when stacker creates and swap can tell cmos make that stack will have and know this could faq readme somewhere but want hear from somebody who actually done thanks romy
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	everex cubes has anybody seen empty everex being sold want the cube not the computer inards will take standard size motherboards thanks mail please mark ashley disclaimer opinions not harris marka gcx ssd csd harris com the lost los angelino
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	hint vlb isa eisa motherboard article news iastate edu schauf iastate edu brian schaufenbuel writes article xnfz nmti com korenek nmti com gary korenek writes believe that any eisa isa motherboard that uses the hint chipset limited bit eisa dma where real eisa dma bit the hint eisa dma has the ram addressing limitation isa for this reason would pass own one these hawk eisa isa and look ing replace for exactly this reason please double check this other words call the motherboard manufacturer and ask them the motherboard supports true bit eisa dma other than this limitation the motherboard works quite well using mine with dos windows and unix also with adaptec eisa scsi host adapter gary korenek korenek nmti com you are correct the motherboard manufacturer where usually buy boards says that they will have this problem fixed about two weeks brian schaufenbuel don see this problem with the chip set mistake see this something that was designed intentionally would seem that enhance the design from bit eisa dma would require update the chipset update the chipset may begat update the motherboard board design what saing the motherboard manufacturer seems passing this off simple fix mind the fix updated chipset from hint along with possible motherboard layout update this not simple were you would cautious about this you might look into the advanced integration research air eisa motherboard all slots are eisa isa capable the slots are bus capable the air people confirmed this board supports real bit eisa dma called them pentium capable less expensive than equivalent ami micronics eisa board look computer shopper april the zenon ads show the air mother board associate bought the air board and pleased with attempting get the local dealer trade out the hawk board for the air board model number air board with you can call motherboard warehouse for example for price phone included below air motherboard warehouse gary korenek korenek nmti com network management technology incorporated sugar land texas
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	format utilities maxitor bbs what the bbs number due some problems with ide drive formatted the maxitor now started give some errors some applications was told maxitor has utility called ide int their bbs anyone tried can some one tell what that bbs number better can find the file some ftp site perhaps someone can email thanks feng the opinions expressed are not necessarily those the university north carolina chapel hill the campus office for information technology the experimental bulletin board service internet launchpad unc edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	 what the difference between uart and uart thanks bugs without the would sometimes get extra characters the fifo this renders the fifo useless only get the
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	trident drivers for win apr spartan brocku tmc spartan brocku writes you can find the drivers wuarchive wustl edu the msdos windows sub directory think the files are called tvgawin zip and tvgawin zip those are the latest drivers available far know downloaded these files couple days ago and they appeared incompatible with this particular card none the svga drivers worked they probably for the newer and series jouni marttila kyl turku finland jmarttila abo jmarttila finabo abovax jmarttila jjmartti utu pgp key available via finger jmarttila abo
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	comparisons dlc amd intel thinking about buying new motherboard and cyrix dlc will upgrade from was wondering anybody has any facts they can fill anybody has one what you think about will also get cyrix math with have benchmarks for the two chips they look very good for the price anybody responds please send email because usually don check the mail very often but check reader daily thanks for your info and remember only respond you have legitimate comp laints praise not just cyrix amd bash know about what byte computer shopper computing and etc have said and that why considering the cyrix chip thanks
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	upgrading all netters upgrade with motherboard will able use the old bits and pieces like graphics card and card etc thanks for you info sorry question some kind faq regards desmond lut
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	isa vlb xor eisa advice wanted article apr julian uwo rmitch irus rri uwo ross mitchell writes have choice now between basically the above system but with with isa and vlb with eisa and vlb and thus the non local bus version the ati card which better keeping mind that primarily interested the last two tasks the april issue magazine published benchmarks for the ati ultrapro running both vlb and eisa eisa vlb
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	bios timer interrupts hello trying use the bios timer interrupts which occur every seconds times second time people response times psychology experiment and the response times are the order seconds there any way can get better precision than counting ticks can make the ticks occur more frequently trying this dos and would nice this could also work our old machines running dos know know don like them any more than you but this means requirement just possibility basically any information the bios tick scheme and the related inrterruots would appreciated well any information alternate ways improving accuracy email preferred planning posting this few boards and don read all them thanks joe
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	help adding scsi drive can coexist with ide eric bosco ebosco oracle com wrote first all please edit your postings wading through lines quoted crud which people have already read makes people much less likely help you course you don want helped that your problem this true was under the impression that people the net had both scsi and ide working together not true you can get scsi and ide work together but there are restrictions least with the adaptec you must boot from the ide drive there way boot from the scsi drive you have both ide and scsi drives you must disable the scsi rom bios not sure about this though and you must also use some special drivers access the scsi drive hmm know that you have disable something related the scsi bios but not sure the rom itself back february someone asked about ide and scsi this question gets asked again and again the end this message included edited copy reply you might find interesting darryl okahata internet darrylo com disclaimer this message the author personal opinion and does not constitute the support opinion policy hewlett packard the little green men that have been following him all day worth get scsi over ide will there noticable decrease access time increase xfer rate for msdos applications isa based scsi and ide controllers generally have comparable throughput you might get slightly higher throughput with scsi disk but you also pay more for the disk and some cases you also pay much much more for good scsi controller note that good scsi controllers really show their power they used with good multitasking operating system like unix unfortunately neither msdos nor windows good multitasking operating system the performance advantage scsi controllers mostly wasted with these which leaves the advantage being able connect multiple devices the scsi bus the only advantage however note that you can expect pay premium for scsi devices you only going using msdos stick with ide cheaper and you have less headaches will virtually any scsi device chain into the controller for hard drive bernoulli box rom tape drive etc note the following true for msdos windows only who knows what the future holds for windows and unix generally you have find drivers for each scsi device which probably don exist unless you using one the better high performance scsi controllers these are typically bus mastering scsi controllers that cost around street prices and and drivers that allow you connect these controllers popular name brand scsi devices either come with the card can purchased for under list price examples such driver kits are adaptec scsi kit list this works only with adaptec scsi controllers corelscsi from the same people who make coreldraw list this driver kit will supposedly work with any scsi controller card that has aspi driver like the adaptec central point tools for dos supports number scsi tape drives the documentation lists tape drives unfortunately works only with adaptec controllers are there likely other problems incompatibilities with scsi controller and sound cards video accelerators and similar equipment yes you will run into problems you using high performance bus mastering scsi controller this doesn sound right doesn true though with one these controllers you probably have tweak your system get work with sound cards floppy controller based tape drives like the cms jumbo and windows know been and back getting scsi controller work with various hardware software thank god for tape backups you want copy adaptec hints and tips file send email these problems aren really the fault the scsi controller card the problems are really with the general hardware and software design the standards however adding bus mastering scsi card what brings these problems the surface and makes them visible scsi holds lot promise but you can run into lot compatibility problems you planning using only msdos windows stick with ide you want use windows unix you have make some hard decisions good scsi controller and more than one scsi hard disk will probably give you excellent performance the possible cost msdos compatibility say probably because while know this true with unix don know this really will true windows suspect that will but don know for sure
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	any comments gateway nomad looking getting laptop for work and was trying decide between the toshibas and gateway nomad the price about the same but the gateway has significantly better performance hard drive mhz mhz and much cheaper accessories extra batteries modem the concern have about gateway the durability and reliability does anyone out there have any experience with the gateway nomad thanks denis lambert denisl col com
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	dos dos need new mouse driver recently installed dos few machines and the users claim that when they use the mouse often the screen will blank and the machine will lock there are viruses they are not running any tsr the mouse logitec button anybody got any ideas thanks mark mark msstate edu
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware	soundblaster irq and port settings pdb ipl jpl nasa gov paul bartholomew writes clip clip interesting would you care explain then how soundblaster pro card and printer card are sharing irq successfully assure you that they are both set irq and that have problem computer dtk ibm clone running dos derivative obviously please take note that the following not what exactly happens but slightly simplified explanation technically the irq line only means for the device printer adapter soundblaster modem hard disk signal the cpu that something happening here please take note how the cpu programmed handle this signal usually the operating system dos the interrupt vector